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Feral Powershifting: macros, thresholds, mana management

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I'm going to implement the mana gradient thing to curb shifting as mana decreases and maybe have some kind of mana cutoff, so you still have enough mana to do a heal and shift back, or something like that.

Perhaps its just me being paranoid but continual updates like this to allow further automation may results in a "red flag" so to speak with regards to this functionality. Im pretty certain that Blizz doesnt want you to be able to spam a "smart" macro and have things occur based on the game state (hence the removal of the old decursive or whatever that old pally healing mod was). Thoughts?

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Katzengestalt

Kampfeslust

Omen der Klarsicht

Freizaubern

Urinstinkt

Terrorbärengestalt

Zerfleischen

Katzengestalt

Wassergestalt

Reisegestalt

I'm not in game and it's late here ^^ I'll check tomorrow morning if the above translations are 100% correct. So far I'm just 90% sure :)

The above Translations I did yesterday are all correct. Here is a summary and some more procs of different trinkets.

"Cat Form" = "Katzengestalt"

"Bloodlust" = "Kampfeslust"

"Omen of Clarity" = "Omen der Klarsicht"

"Clearcasting" = "Freizaubern"

"Primal Instinct" = "Urinstinkt"

"Dire Bear Form" = "Terrorbärengestalt"

"Mangle" = "Zerfleischen"

"Cat Form" = "Katzengestalt

"Aquatic Form" = "Wassergestalt"

"Travel Form" = "Reisegestalt"

It'd be great to at the following procs as well:

Proc of "Shard of Contempt"

Disdain --> Verachtung

Proc of "Skyguard Silver Cross"

Combat Valor --> Heldenmut

Proc of "Hourglass of the Unraveller"

Rage of the Unraveller --> Zorn des Entwirrers

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I'm checking different cycles using [iTEM]Wolfshead Helm[/iTEM] and came up with the following (100 ms latency).

Time	Energy	Gain

0.1	8	0	Rip

1.2	60	40	Shift

2.3	18	29	Shred

3.2	38	40	Tick

3.3	3	39	Mangle

4.4	60	85	Shift

5.5	18	74	Shred

6.4	38	85	Tick

6.5	3	84	Mangle

7.6	60	130	Shift

8.7	18	119	Shred

9.6	38	130	Tick

9.7	3	129	Mangle

10.8	60	175	Shift

11.9	18	164	Shred

12.8	38	175	Tick


Where gain is the energy difference over time compared against not shifting.

Initial numbers are pretty impressive, but I'm sure it would be pretty hard to maintain 4 shifts per cycle. You would probably need to swap for every type of regen buff - [iTEM]Super Mana Potion[/iTEM], [iTEM]Super Mana Oil[/iTEM], [iTEM]Elixir of Major Mageblood[/iTEM], Blessing of Wisdom. [iTEM]Staff of Natural Fury[/iTEM] could help a lot also, but is an even larger loss in stats than [iTEM]Duplicitous Guise[/iTEM]. I haven't done the math, but that might not even be enough for a long fight. Alternating in Mangle makes [iTEM]Idol of Terror[/iTEM] and [iTEM]Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium[/iTEM] valid upgrades though.

I made some 2 and 3 shift variants also. Any less and it's probably not worth using.

2 shift (12.4 sec): 1xMangle, 3xShred

3 shift (13.8 sec): 2xMangle, 4xShred

4 shift (13.2 sec): 3xMangle, 4xShred

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Yesterday on Zul'Jin it happened 2 times that the macro didn't shift me back in catform. Any idea why this could possibly happen, I thought the macro checks the GCD, I can't explain why I was stuck in casterform for a while.

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I've read most of the megathread and this topic so I think I've grasped the theory behind it.

Now I "need" some tips.

What i usually do is the standard 4-5cp/rip cycle: I start with mangle and shred til 4-5cp then wait full energy -> rip and mangle to start again.

Using the above macroes/addon what I have to change in this cycle?

From what I've understood you seem to "simply" keep mangling/shredding/ripping without waiting for energy regen.

It's correct or I'm in need of a RTFM? :)

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I'm checking different cycles using [iTEM]Wolfshead Helm[/iTEM] and came up with the following (100 ms latency).

Time	Energy	Gain

0.1	8	0	Rip

1.2	60	40	Shift

2.3	18	29	Shred

3.2	38	40	Tick

3.3	3	39	Mangle

4.4	60	85	Shift

5.5	18	74	Shred

6.4	38	85	Tick

6.5	3	84	Mangle

7.6	60	130	Shift

8.7	18	119	Shred

9.6	38	130	Tick

9.7	3	129	Mangle

10.8	60	175	Shift

11.9	18	164	Shred

12.8	38	175	Tick


Where gain is the energy difference over time compared against not shifting.

Initial numbers are pretty impressive, but I'm sure it would be pretty hard to maintain 4 shifts per cycle. You would probably need to swap for every type of regen buff - [iTEM]Super Mana Potion[/iTEM], [iTEM]Super Mana Oil[/iTEM], [iTEM]Elixir of Major Mageblood[/iTEM], Blessing of Wisdom. [iTEM]Staff of Natural Fury[/iTEM] could help a lot also, but is an even larger loss in stats than [iTEM]Duplicitous Guise[/iTEM]. I haven't done the math, but that might not even be enough for a long fight. Alternating in Mangle makes [iTEM]Idol of Terror[/iTEM] and [iTEM]Ashtongue Talisman of Equilibrium[/iTEM] valid upgrades though.

I made some 2 and 3 shift variants also. Any less and it's probably not worth using.

2 shift (12.4 sec): 1xMangle, 3xShred

3 shift (13.8 sec): 2xMangle, 4xShred

4 shift (13.2 sec): 3xMangle, 4xShred

im trying out the wolfshead helm and honestly throwing in mangles is just a waste of energy. Ive been doing ~1.5-2 shifts a cycle and almost always getting the 5 combo points for rip. basically

rip

mangle

shift shred

shift shred

let energy tick if i get overflow before 12 seconds are up, shred

repeat

keeping in mind that i dont have 4t6. with my current gear setup i noticed ~30-40 increased dps over 5 min runs, compared to my normal t5 equivalent dps set. which is pretty amazing considering i picked up 100-150 when i started powershifting.

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I'm still getting the error that the lib folder is not found. I cannot copy over feralkit into my addons folder until this problem is fixed. Anyone have any suggestions?

If he's updated it to Sink2.0 then my earlier link is for 1.0 and won't fix. You know need to download the Sink 2.0 library.

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I've been looking at the discussion about the new macro, and been wondering why there isn't one with Ferocious bite in it. If you powershift almost constantly, wouldn't that mean you got way more combo-points to spent than you can only on rip?

you could alter you're spec so you have Feral Aggression, and maybe even put in Intensity if you have mana problems. It does mean you loose some defensive talents though.

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Perhaps its just me being paranoid but continual updates like this to allow further automation may results in a "red flag" so to speak with regards to this functionality. Im pretty certain that Blizz doesnt want you to be able to spam a "smart" macro and have things occur based on the game state (hence the removal of the old decursive or whatever that old pally healing mod was). Thoughts?

Yea I think the work being done in this thread is pretty interesting, I haven't had a chance to test it out myself as I'm still resto for arenas on the weekend. But I have to say a lot of whats being posted sounds too good to be true. I would love to sit down and get all this setup, but I have a feeling that something is going to get changed and not allow this macro to work.

I just hope its the macro'ing part they change and not the powershifting part

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I've been looking at the discussion about the new macro, and been wondering why there isn't one with Ferocious bite in it. If you powershift almost constantly, wouldn't that mean you got way more combo-points to spent than you can only on rip?

you could alter you're spec so you have Feral Aggression, and maybe even put in Intensity if you have mana problems. It does mean you loose some defensive talents though.

in order to pull off a 5 point FB and a 5 point rip in 1 rotation, lets say an average of 1.5 combo points per move (50% critrate) that would mean you would have to perform 6 and a half special attacks in 12 seconds, 1 mangle and 5 shreds or 250 energy plus the energy for rip and FB assuming no extra energy goes into FB thats 315 energy per rotation, there is literally no way without TONS of procs to get that much energy in 12 seconds. and if you cant get both a 5 point FB and a 4 or 5 point rip, its better to just go with the rip and let the excess CPs go to waste. It is an all or nothing deal.

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im trying out the wolfshead helm and honestly throwing in mangles is just a waste of energy. Ive been doing ~1.5-2 shifts a cycle and almost always getting the 5 combo points for rip. basically

rip

mangle

shift shred

shift shred

let energy tick if i get overflow before 12 seconds are up, shred

repeat

keeping in mind that i dont have 4t6. with my current gear setup i noticed ~30-40 increased dps over 5 min runs, compared to my normal t5 equivalent dps set. which is pretty amazing considering i picked up 100-150 when i started powershifting.

As I stated, it depends on how many shifts per cycle you are doing.

At 2 shift per cycle you will get in 1xMangle and 3xShred (with no OoC procs). Using extra Mangles is not a waste of energy. It is using your energy more efficiently so you lose less when you powershift. With the posted cycle, you are always shifting at 3 energy after Mangle or 8 energy after Rip.

While it might not be necessary to shift 4 times per cycle to get the necessary CP to Rip, it's the most total damage. I'm just not sure if it's sustainable even using every method for mana regen possible.

Note - you are better off adjusting your 2 shift cycle to not shift after Mangle. After 2 abilities you will have an energy tick before you can Shred, so wait another tick instead of shifting. Here is a more efficient cycle to always get at least 3 Shreds in.

0.1	50	Rip

1.2	15	Mangle

2.1	35	Tick

4	55	Tick

4.1	13	Shred

5.2	60	Shift

6.3	18	Shred

7.2	38	Tick

9.2	58	Tick

9.3	16	Shred

10.4	60	Shift

12.4	80	Tick

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Yesterday on Zul'Jin it happened 2 times that the macro didn't shift me back in catform. Any idea why this could possibly happen, I thought the macro checks the GCD, I can't explain why I was stuck in casterform for a while.

Were you using FeralKit or the inline macro? I found this bug last night in FeralKit and fixed it in the latest version. I'll upload it in a bit.

I also added a combat parser so I can get Feral-specific details about what's going on, like figuring out if you clipped any Rips, Mangle uptime, Rip uptime, and other stuff like that. I also have it parse the damage per form, so you know if the damage was from Cat, Bear, or Caster.

Any ideas about other useful Bear things? Right now I just have the "/fk bear crit" thing.

I tried to clean up a lot of the notifications. I'm not happy with how the proc notifications work, I need some better type of display for that.

I do like now I changed the powershift stuff however, they now look like:

"Powershift [+x energy] ~Y shifts left" when you powershift (using LibDruidMana to make mana predictions)

"N x Powershifts [~x energy per shift]" (at end of combat)

Can you tell me where to get Sink-2.0? I was only able to find Sink-1.0 on wowace.

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Were you using FeralKit or the inline macro? I found this bug last night in FeralKit and fixed it in the latest version. I'll upload it in a bit.

It happened with the inline macros. I can't use FeralKit till it's localised to the German Client ;)

Let us know when you worked in the translations.

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It happened with the inline macros. I can't use FeralKit till it's localised to the German Client ;)

Let us know when you worked in the translations.

Internally, all the spells now use spell ID except for the "Mangle" check (since theirs multiple ranks for both cat and bear) and the "Faerie Fire" check (multiple ranks, might not be feral version) [currently not used].

The client's UI however is still in english though, I'll localize that later.

-- I added Ace3 support, but then removed after realizing Ace3 isn't very polished yet, so I reverted to Ace2

-- I added Sink-2.0

-- "/fk cat toggle" renamed to "/fk cat ui"

-- Cleaned up some of the notifications (turned off Idol of Terror proc warning temporarily, only uptime shows)

-- "/fk stat damage" to turn on a verbose DPS breakdown and DPS calculation (very basic atm).

-- "/fk ps mana" to set mana threshold (default is 1000)

-- "/fk ps threshold" renamed to "/fk ps energy" (default is 15)

-- "/fk ps ticks" still shows all energy updates, I'll change this behavior soon.

-- when "/fk proc omen" is on, anytime you shift or unshift without omen active, or omen is removed, a warning will remind you that it's missing (the warning can only be shown once every 8 seconds to avoid spam).

-- Powershifting notifications only go off if a successful powershift occurred within 1 second of using the macro (theres about 400 ms delay, event wise, during which time, future powershifts are cancelled automatically to prevent canceling form twice.) -- you'd think the gcd check would prevent this...I'll look more into it if I see the problem occur again.

http://oldschoolwow.com/FeralKit.zip

Edit:

I'm not really liking Sink for output, so I think I'm going to develop my own information UI.

Prior to 2.4 being announced, with the major combat log change, I was working on a mod called Score, that displays useful combat information. Screenshot: http://oldschoolwow.com/Score3.jpg

I think I'll use a similar UI for FeralKit, although probably more compact than those screenshots show.

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I added a few more features to FeralKit, although they are far from finished.

First, I created a pretty smart debuff watching system, which will accurately track important ferals debuffs (well any debuffs). Most importantly, it tracks shared debuffs like Mangle and FF, so if you have another feral in the raid, you can see when Mangle and FFF are refreshed.

I'm going to create a debuff interface, like "/fk debuff", that provides icons and status bars for the debuffs below. The order of these debuffs will always be the same so your eyes won't have to scan like most debuff mods cause you too. I'll prob use a different color for each one too, so its obvious.

DPS-wise, I think it would be nice to get warnings when mangle is about to fade (if desired) and maybe a warning or atleast some kind of tracking of shreds that occur without Mangle.

Tank-wise, I'd like to add taunt resist notification and aoe taunt yell. It would be nice to get some warnings when demo isn't up.

Cat:

[shared mangle] [shared ff] [your rip] [your pounce] [your maim]

Maybe: [hunters mark] [curse of reck] [judgement of crusader] [blood frenzy] [sunder armor]

Bear:

[shared mangle] [shared ff] [shared ap debuff (demo or curse)] [curse of reck] [sunder armor]

[your lacerate] [scorpid] [number of insect swarms] [thunder clap]

Maybe: [blood frenzy]

I currently use ElkBuffBar for these debuff functionality (see http://oldschoolwow.com/EdgyUI17.jpg) and I dislike it. It doesn't track shared debuffs (I can't see when the debuffs will expire), and some of the time, the Mangle debuff gets all messed up and for some reason, it doesn't show up. Elk also doesn't allow different settings per form, which is why I think a feral-specific solution is probably the best. I do however like how that debuff list looks, so I think I'll recreate something similar, except that it would time all debuffs accurately. It also would be nice to have a debuff bar that goes horizontal, maybe with large icons and cooldown clocks for the durations, or something (and then a pulse type animation that speeds up as it needs to be refreshed...).

For the stat module, I mostly want to monitor damage in Bear form for threat sensistive stuff (like the start of any fight). It would be nice to easily monitor your miss/hit/parried/dodged rate so you can notify your raid accordingly if your threat is going to be poor.

I'd like to make a Bear UI too, that displays a graph of incoming damage over time (and maybe threat?).

For the Cat UI, I want to integrate the procs into the interface somehow, and add a few more trinkets like the Shard, DST, and Madness. I added the code for an energy tick timer to the Cat UI, but realized monitoring energy ticks is sorta silly if you have powershifting on. Although, if anyone can come up with a smart and unique way to show the energy tick heartbeat, let me know.

Anyone else have any ideas or suggestions? I'll probably move this to a wowace thread in a bit, I just figured it was along the same lines of improving Cat DPS (and overall Feral performance).

And is anyone else having problems (with either Feralkit or the inline macro) when powershifting? Occasionally, I'll start casting Starfire (same position on my action bar when in caster) instead of returning to Cat form -- which seems impossible when looking at the macro. This was mentioned earlier, and I thought I was able to fix it, but it still randomly happens.

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I hope you add toggles to enable/disable all these new features you're adding, at this point they are beginning to encroach on other mods' territory (e.g. Demon for debuff tracking).

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raffy, sounds really good this :)

For the mana cut-off for powershifting, can it be the cost of rebirth + 1 more shift? I don't mind dumping all my mana each fight but the downside is you never know when you'll need to combat res.

thanks :)

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I got error with latest Feralkit : [2008/05/19 14:53:23-1121-x1]: FeralKit-1.0\core.lua:404: attempt to index a nil value

AceAddon-2.0-57245 (Ace2):926: in function <Interface\AddOns\Ace2\AceAddon-2.0\AceAddon-2.0.lua:919>

<in C code>: ?

AceEvent-2.0-66043 (Ace2):260: in function `TriggerEvent'

AceEvent-2.0-66043 (Ace2):910: in function <Interface\AddOns\Ace2\AceEvent-2.0\AceEvent-2.0.lua:903>

---

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According Compatibility to German Clients:

- FeralKit Addon runs without error messages

- Localisation still missing quite a bit and therefore Shred and Rip Makro doesn't work. Mangle works btw :)

I've added the following 2 lines to the deDE.lua but it still doesn't work:

["Shred"] = "Schreddern"

["Rip"] = "Zerfetzen"

raffy if you need any other translations, let me know and I'm going to provide them to you.

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FeralKit doesnt work for me anymore at all, it worked ok last night but not after I updated today. cat ui display just keeps showing (0), powershifting doesnt work. All the slash commands seemingly work, but they dont actually do anything.

I'm not really comfortable with this kind of automation anyway, feels like cheating :|

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FeralKit doesnt work for me anymore at all, it worked ok last night but not after I updated today. cat ui display just keeps showing (0), powershifting doesnt work. All the slash commands seemingly work, but they dont actually do anything.

I'm not really comfortable with this kind of automation anyway, feels like cheating :|

I am having the same issue with FK not working, loaded, but not doing anything.

I have no issues using it however :)

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I've been using a macro like this since before it was popularized here on these forums. I do generally have a problem getting dumped into caster form, occasionally, as has been highlighted here already. Most of the time, this problem seems to be coupled with using a haste potion while powershifting.

I believe that the problem occurs due to extremely rapid button spamming, to the point that the client is not able to recognize the current form and/or global cooldown on the next spammed button press after a powershift. One thing I've done is to add this line to the beginning of the powershifting macro:

/stopmacro [noform]

Based upon Blasted Lands testing, I thought that this was a complete cure. Later, though, I was left in caster form one time on a raid boss fight. While it wasn't a complete cure, it did help.

One thing I'm thinking of adding is some sort of time-checking in the macro to avoid canceling cat form if a powershift had occurred recently (say, within the last 2 seconds).

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I don't want to eat up any more of this thread, so if you have any FeralKit questions/comments/concerns, please message or email me. I'll release a more stable version in a few days, with a post to a FeralKit specific thread.

Back to the issue about failed powershifts, I'm going to try to do some event debugging, to see exactly what is going on. I don't understand how the macro execution just ends -- and lets another cast occur in between /run and /cast, seems more like a bug on Blizzards part (where CancelPlayerBuff() provokes another event loop iteration that catches a spammed key and uses a different spell -- while in the middle of executing a macro.) I guess thats the price for being able to actually use CancelPlayerBuff().

From Lua, we can't conditionally stop macro execution so that throws most of the obvious solutions out of the window. Although, as a temporary solution, we could just put the Mangle/Shred macro on an actionbar that doesn't page.

Edit; now that I think about it, depending on how fast [form] updates, the blame might rest with /console AutoUnshift. It would be worthwhile to try:

/console autounshift 0

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

/concole autounshift 1

Edit 2: or equally on the spell that lines up on your caster bar (mine, for example, is Starfire)

/cast [noform] Starfire

Edit 3: the problem could also be related to the swing timer.

Edit 4:

@ecopsorn - Shred and Rip aren't used anywhere, you create a powershift macro for them just like mangle:

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Rip

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Shred

@people getting errors - make sure you set your output device using "/fk output" to something valid (like ChatFrame), for some reason, it defaults to Blizzards SCT, and if Blizzards SCT isn't enabled, the function that it calls doesn't exist, and thus causes an lua error. A few output calls are made at login, like telling you about omen and bloodlust presence, so if one of those breaks, some part of the initialization code won't execute. I should of set the default output to ChatFrame to avoid this issue. Future versions of FeralKit will use something other than Sink to provide notifications so it won't be an issue.

Also you can try turning on Interface Options > Help > [x] Enhanced Tooltips. It appears that when this option is off, it can't parse the mana cost for Cat form.

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I don't want to eat up any more of this thread, so if you have any FeralKit questions/comments/concerns, please message or email me. I'll release a more stable version in a few days, with a post to a FeralKit specific thread.

Back to the issue about failed powershifts, I'm going to try to do some event debugging, to see exactly what is going on. I don't understand how the macro execution just ends -- and lets another cast occur in between /run and /cast, seems more like a bug on Blizzards part (where CancelPlayerBuff() provokes another event loop iteration that catches a spammed key and uses a different spell -- while in the middle of executing a macro.) I guess thats the price for being able to actually use CancelPlayerBuff().

From Lua, we can't conditionally stop macro execution so that throws most of the obvious solutions out of the window. Although, as a temporary solution, we could just put the Mangle/Shred macro on an actionbar that doesn't page.

Edit; now that I think about it, depending on how fast [form] updates, the blame might rest with /console AutoUnshift. It would be worthwhile to try:

/console autounshift 0

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Mangle (Cat)()

/concole autounshift 1

Edit 2: or equally on the spell that lines up on your caster bar (mine, for example, is Starfire)

/cast [noform] Starfire

Edit 3: the problem could also be related to the swing timer.

Edit 4:

@ecopsorn - Shred and Rip aren't used anywhere, you create a powershift macro for them just like mangle:

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Rip

/run ps()

/cast [noform] Cat Form; Shred

@people getting errors - make sure you set your output device using "/fk output" to something valid (like ChatFrame), for some reason, it defaults to Blizzards SCT, and if Blizzards SCT isn't enabled, the function that it calls doesn't exist, and thus causes an lua error. A few output calls are made at login, like telling you about omen and bloodlust presence, so if one of those breaks, some part of the initialization code won't execute. I should of set the default output to ChatFrame to avoid this issue. Future versions of FeralKit will use something other than Sink to provide notifications so it won't be an issue.

Also you can try turning on Interface Options > Help > [x] Enhanced Tooltips. It appears that when this option is off, it can't parse the mana cost for Cat form.

Hey raffy, I don't think you're spamming this forum! It's a great work you're doing there and it's all related to the thread titel. If you'd start now to continue the discussions and suggestions per E-Mail / PM's, then most of the information to the community is blocked out. It's up to you though.

I tested the output functionality yesterday and it's very informative and useful. The only thing which bothers me a lot is the fact that it basically is spamming my chat-window which I don't really like. Is there a possibility to use a seperate window for the output itself?

If you guys know "GrimReaper" ---> AceAddon, that's what I imagine. Having such a neat looking small window with all the output in it from FeralKit. I'd love such a thing. Maybe you could get together with the author of GrimReaper to ask him if he could allow you to use his code for your output. Just my opinion.

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Thank you raffy for the great job you're doing !

I've tried to translate the macros into french without success.

Here are some translations :

"Cat Form" = "Forme de félin""

"Bloodlust" = "Rage sanguinaire"

"Omen of Clarity" = "Augure de clarté"

"Clearcasting" = "Idées claires"

"Primal Instinct" = "Instinct primal"

"Dire Bear Form" = "Forme d'ours redoutable"

"Mangle" = "Mutilation"

"Aquatic Form" = "Forme aquatique"

"Travel Form" = "Forme de voyage"

"Shred"="Lambeau"

"Rip"="Déchirure"

I'd love to have your mod working with the FR client. Please ask if you need some more help.

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