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constantius

WotLK Healing Compendium v3.0 [theorycraft, specs, etc]

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You might want to mention (in the shadowfiend section) using your shadowfiend just before a shaman bloodlusts. I assume it still works for the fiend?

Also: prayer of mending generates 0 healing threat for anyone on 3.0.2 live (haven't checked the beta recently).

You should change Omen/Threat-1.0 to Omen3, using the inbuilt threat data.

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Q: What are the must-have talents for a Holy priest?

A: IHC, Serendipity, Guardian Spirit, and obviously Spiritual Healing. Guardian Spirit is remarkably good for a 51-point talent; you have to spend a lot of points to get it, but its usefulness cannot be overstated. Serendipity is holy's equivalence to Rapture, and is again a tremendous talent, and IHC has to be seen to be appreciated. The haste and mana return benefits are extremely strong.

I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

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I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

2 piece T5 was pretty amazing in TBC and Serendipity is really good now. You can aim to have most of your heals do some overhealing.

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I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

Serendipity returns more than the 2-piece T5 and doesn't require you to use inferior healing gear to obtain the mana returns. It also works off of both flash heal and greater heal, which means with flash heal glyph, for healing deficits of around 3k, flash heal is actually more efficient than using a renew and is more HPS. And of course, for tank healing, it's invaluable. Sure, you could argue if you cast NOTHING but CoH, you won't see any benefits, but what are the realistic chances you never, ever, ever, ever, ever single target heal in a raid? It's virtually nil for me. And what talents would you take that would so vastly improve your raid healing that you're willing to slaughter your single target healing efficiency to a point where it'd be pointless to put you on single target healing -because in a single target situation, parses show serendipity as returning more mana than meditation. I personally can't see any that are so compelling in either Holy or next tier Disc that would warrant dropping Serendipity.

Imp: Disc is a waste of talent points because it doesn't stack with flametongue totem and that gives higher spell damage, I believe.

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I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I think the most important reason is this one:

In 2-piece T5 times, you had a choice: downrank for mana efficiency or intentionally overheal to reduce risk. 2pc T5 was made to improve mana efficiency in places where you absolutely want to overheal.

You no longer have that choice. Downranking is gone, so you need Serendipity do come at least near your old mana efficiency.

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I'm interested in the rationale behind the assertion that Serendipity is a "must-have" talent now. I'm guessing the idea is that combined with SoL it results in free mana from a free heal? Otherwise, it's pretty much the same situational benefit of 2-piece T5.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

Serendipity only refunds spent mana, so a SoL-triggered Flash Heal that cost 0 mana to begin with will refund 0 mana. Similarly, Serendipity refunds 0 mana from heals cast with Inner Focus or Clearcasting. The T5 2-pc would give you 100 mana whether or not the heal resulting in overheal actually cost any mana.

Divine Spirit isn't a waste of a point, just that the points in Improved Divine Spirit are.

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The T5 2-pc would give you 100 mana whether or not the heal resulting in overheal actually cost any mana.

True. On the other hand, the 2-piece T5 only applies for GHeals, not flash heals, which is now a reasonable useful raid healing talent.

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True. On the other hand, the 2-piece T5 only applies for GHeals, not flash heals, which is now a reasonable useful raid healing talent.

Correct. I wasn't trying to compare the value of the two, just clarify the differences in their mechanics.

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With the CoH smart-targetting, it seems more important than ever to have Holy Reach.

I agree completely, let's not forget that holy reach increases radius by 20% but that means that actual covered surface (which is the relevant metric in this case) is increased by 44%, this is a big upgrade in my opinion.

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Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this comprehensive guide, Constantius.

My question pertains to the relationship between Grace and Blessing of Sanctuary (BoS). The new buff system prevents them from "stacking" on a target. Given that, what (if any) mechanic resolves an attempt to grant Grace to a player already affected by BoS? IIRC, the buffs differ in two ways: BoS is a flat 3% damage reduction (and does not "ramp up" like Grace), and Grace grants a 2/4/6% bonus to healing done to the target by the priest. I would imagine that Grace would overwrite BoS, were it not for the fact that the initial cast provides a lesser bonus, potentially triggering a "more powerful effect" response. Any idea how the new system handles this?

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I agree completely, let's not forget that holy reach increases radius by 20% but that means that actual covered surface (which is the relevant metric in this case) is increased by 44%, this is a big upgrade in my opinion.

Here's the issue with that. How often do you have enough people spread out enough that the extra points actually matter? I can't think of a single fight in BT or HS excepting KJ where it would actually make a difference to me. And, having cleared all content on Beta atm (no Ulduar, but afaik, they never pushed that), I can't think of a single fight there where it would matter except possibly Sapphiron. And realistically, you shouldn't be using CoH on spread out people on Sapp anyway: Renew and FH are more efficient and timely.

Yes, it's a decent talent. No, it's not something I think is more powerful than the alternatives. You figure out a spec that retains CoH, 6/6 IHC, 3/3 Serendipity, 5/5 Holy Spec, and 2/2 SoL while obviously keeping Meditation that also manages to get 2/2 Holy Reach, and I'll talk. :)

My question pertains to the relationship between Grace and Blessing of Sanctuary (BoS). The new buff system prevents them from "stacking" on a target. Given that, what (if any) mechanic resolves an attempt to grant Grace to a player already affected by BoS? IIRC, the buffs differ in two ways: BoS is a flat 3% damage reduction (and does not "ramp up" like Grace), and Grace grants a 2/4/6% bonus to healing done to the target by the priest. I would imagine that Grace would overwrite BoS, were it not for the fact that the initial cast provides a lesser bonus, potentially triggering a "more powerful effect" response. Any idea how the new system handles this?

Honestly, no clue. Wreath (the other priest in Fusion) went Disc for a night, and experienced no issues getting Grace stacked, despite a full prot paladin in the raid casting BoSanc. Not sure if this is indicative of anything. Anyone else have any practical experience they'd like to share?

Ad 2.

If 1 int is 15 mana, than 15 * 0.25%*5 is 0.1875 MP5 per point of int from replenishment (which translates to 0.206 and 0.237 (based on build) as mentioned in section II ). Am I missing something? I am assuming 100% replenishment uptime, which obviously is not true, but the value 0.0125 seems to assume less than 10% uptime, which obviously is not case as well…

Ad 4.

It is possibly worth noting that this value assumes 41% return from shadowfiend. The numbers suggested in section Vb (25-30%) would result in 0.052 – 0.062 MP5 / point of int.

Ad 5.

According to calculations below this number assumes 50/50 split between GH and BH (47 chances to proc per minute). 50/50 split between FH and GH would mean (still according to numbers below – 42 FH/minute vs 10GH/minute) 26 chances to proc per minute, leading to 0.117 expected procs per 1% crit. That in turn changes our 1.3 free casts to 0.7 free casts, resulting in (1054 * 0.7 / 167 = 4.4 mana) 0.026 MP5 per point of int.

I was also unable to verify the summary of int value at the end of the section. Summarizing the values listed above, and multiplying by 1.1/1.265 would lead to 0.672/0.663. Moreover, if we replaced the replenishment value of int by 0.1875 we would get 0.865 / 0.872 (almost 2 times the value of spirit mp5 ).

Ad. 2: you're right, not sure where my number came from. I'll take a closer look at what I was theoretically thinking later when my head is less fuzzy.

Ad. 4: I haven't seen my Shadowfiend return less than 10 hits @ 4% each so far in 3.0.x. Max so far is 15, minimum 11. That is, of course, excepting cases where I'm stupid and launch him into AE of death. :) In that case, modeling as ~ 40% is reasonable, I think.

Ad. 5: You're right that this was never anything but a hack model. We could debate this one forever. I'll run another pass at it and see what I come up with. Either way we do it, it's fairly small compared to Replenishment, mana pool, and shadowfiend. At 167 int per percent crit, it's not going to scale quickly at all.

The value at the end should have just been the sum of all of the factors, multiplied by the scaling factors allowed (BoK for holy, BoK+MS for disc). Of course, who knows. I asked for some feedback on the models, but this is the first I've seen. I'll see what I can integrate and get back to y'all.

I'd also question why Imp:Spi for Disc is a waste of points, seeing as spirit/regen in general has become more important for all mana users in Wrath.

As mentioned above, I just want to re-emphasize: no-one is suggesting a Disc priest skip Divine Spirit. Great, wonderful, spectacular buff. Love it to death. However, Improved Divine Spirit is the most laughable waste of talent points since Lightwell was our 31st point talent. Actually, scratch that. Since Holy Nova was our 31st point talent.

It's horrible. Unimproved, vanilla, completely baseline Flametongue Totem is almost TWICE AS MUCH SPELLPOWER as IDS. ToW absolutely destroys it. It's the most laughable excuse for a buff (talented, no less) that I can think of Blizzard pushing as a "fundamental part of a Discipline priest's arsenal". Honestly, it's a slap in the face. I tried to tell them on the Beta, multiple times, but all I got back was Koraa being his usual dense self. Hopefully the priest mini-review they're planning for the spring will fix it. Until then, don't spec it. Laugh at people that do, and then educate them. It's horrible.

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Yes, it's a decent talent. No, it's not something I think is more powerful than the alternatives. You figure out a spec that retains CoH, 6/6 IHC, 3/3 Serendipity, 5/5 Holy Spec, and 2/2 SoL while obviously keeping Meditation that also manages to get 2/2 Holy Reach, and I'll talk. :)

Holy Reach is on tier 4 in the holy talent tree, so if we can agree that in those first 4 tiers Holy Spec 5/5, Divine Fury 5/5, Inspiration 3/3 and Improved Healing 3/3 are must have talents, there are still 4 talentpoints left. Those can be spend on Holy Reach, Improved Renew, maybe Desperate Prayer. That's the competition we have here. Holy Reach doesn't really compete with CoH, IHC, SoL or Serendipity in my book.

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Here's the issue with that. How often do you have enough people spread out enough that the extra points actually matter? I can't think of a single fight in BT or HS excepting KJ where it would actually make a difference to me. And, having cleared all content on Beta atm (no Ulduar, but afaik, they never pushed that), I can't think of a single fight there where it would matter except possibly Sapphiron. And realistically, you shouldn't be using CoH on spread out people on Sapp anyway: Renew and FH are more efficient and timely.

Yes, it's a decent talent. No, it's not something I think is more powerful than the alternatives. You figure out a spec that retains CoH, 6/6 IHC, 3/3 Serendipity, 5/5 Holy Spec, and 2/2 SoL while obviously keeping Meditation that also manages to get 2/2 Holy Reach, and I'll talk.

If this is your reasoning then I would recommend removing the statement...

A: It's really not necessary now that CoH is smart-targeted and raid-wide.

...from the first post because it really has nothing to do with why you consider it less valuable. It's bound to confuse people like myself who are trying to find out exactly what has changed since the patch. Just my 2 cents. Great guide and thanks for all the hard work.

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I've been 51/10/0 since the patch and I've never seen an issue with grace stacking on anyone buffed with Blessing of Sanctuary or otherwise. As far as I can tell the new system allows buffs that "overwrite" each other to still exist on a target, but only the greater of the effects is counted. So in this case BoS (3%) will used until grace hits 2 stacks (4%) at which point grace will be counted. I'll spend some time tonight to confirm this if I can find a willing pali to help out. Anyone have a suggestion for a normalized damage source to use for this sort of testing?

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My question pertains to the relationship between Grace and Blessing of Sanctuary (BoS). The new buff system prevents them from "stacking" on a target. Given that, what (if any) mechanic resolves an attempt to grant Grace to a player already affected by BoS? IIRC, the buffs differ in two ways: BoS is a flat 3% damage reduction (and does not "ramp up" like Grace), and Grace grants a 2/4/6% bonus to healing done to the target by the priest. I would imagine that Grace would overwrite BoS, were it not for the fact that the initial cast provides a lesser bonus, potentially triggering a "more powerful effect" response. Any idea how the new system handles this?

Confirmed: The Grace buff (all ranks) stacks with BoS. I believe this is because Grace also has a +Healing% component. I have definitely never had a stacking problem with the two.

I haven't tested to see if the damage reduction portion of the buffs stack.

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I've been 51/10/0 since the patch and I've never seen an issue with grace stacking on anyone buffed with Blessing of Sanctuary or otherwise. As far as I can tell the new system allows buffs that "overwrite" each other to still exist on a target, but only the greater of the effects is counted. So in this case BoS (3%) will used until grace hits 2 stacks (4%) at which point grace will be counted. I'll spend some time tonight to confirm this if I can find a willing pali to help out. Anyone have a suggestion for a normalized damage source to use for this sort of testing?

Duel and use SW:P and/or Devouring Plague - they should tick for the same amount every time.

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Q: What are the must-have talents for a Discipline priest?

A: Rapture, Grace, and Penance. To a lesser extent, Borrowed Time and Renewed Hope build nicely together with Improved PW:S and Twin Disciplines to provide for high-absorption shields that give secondary benefits. Enlightenment is also a remarkably nice talent to have, easily being the most valuable talent in the entire tree in terms of gear replacement (gaining 5% haste and 5% spirit is a *tremendous* amount of ilvl points saved, to be put into something more interesting, like crit).

I'm a bit confused as to why DA isn't listed as a must-have, since it's our "use crit" talent, and mentioned elsewhere in your post as something you assume disc priests will have.

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Since 1 intellect = 1 spirit (effectively) for ilvl points spent, we really have no loss in gaining one versus the other. The exception to this rule is in considering gear that has no spirit on it, as those items are in much much higher demand, especially by dps casters (for cloth items) and by all casters and healers (for necks, rings, and trinkets, along with weapons). You will find it much easier to pick up spirit items than non-spirit, simply because of that competition. Thus, I am going to assume that any item you grab is a spirit+int item, just for sake of argument. When this is true, the minimum gearing you will be at, fully raid-buffed (25-man), in ilvl 186+ rare or epic pieces, will be 1000 intellect + 1000 spirit. This is, of course, assuming full enchants, and all raid buffs possible, along with consumables. So use 1000/1000 as our starting point.

I would like to point out that appart from less competition on items with spirit, assuming that ilvl computation stays same in wotlk:

- the more balanced stats the item have the better

- stamina value 0.5, spirit and intellect value is 1, mp5 value is 2.5, spell power is 0.85

- there are few items having both mp5 and spirit

Then from ilvl point of view it would be best to have an item with these stats in ratio

sta:spi:int:mp5:spell power = 20:10:10:4:12

That is of course theoretical and no such items exist. Still it is better from ilvl point of view to take the item having spirit, intellect a spell power then taking one having only intellect and spell power.

see: Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

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I would like to point out that appart from less competition on items with spirit, assuming that ilvl computation stays same in wotlk:

- the more balanced stats the item have the better

- stamina value 0.5, spirit and intellect value is 1, mp5 value is 2.5, spell power is 0.85

- there are few items having both mp5 and spirit

Then from ilvl point of view it would be best to have an item with these stats in ratio

sta:spi:int:mp5:spell power = 20:10:10:4:12

That is of course theoretical and no such items exist. Still it is better from ilvl point of view to take the item having spirit, intellect a spell power then taking one having only intellect and spell power.

see: Item level - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Stamina value is 0.67 (which your link confirms).

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I'm curious to know why Healing Focus isn't part of your recommended raid build. I always thought this talent was a necessity. Is there something I'm missing about the talent that makes it less valuable then, say, 2% crit from the Holy Spec talent?

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I'm curious to know why Healing Focus isn't part of your recommended raid build. I always thought this talent was a necessity. Is there something I'm missing about the talent that makes it less valuable then, say, 2% crit from the Holy Spec talent?

It was addressed earlier in this thread. Pushback was changed to max out at 1 second. Healing Focus was changed from giving 70% chance to *ignore* pushback completely to only giving 70% reduction to the effects of pushback. However, now that auras are raid wide, it's almost certain in a 25 man raid you'll have Improved Concentration aura, which also no longer stacks with Healing Focus like it used to (to give us completely immunity to pushback). Imp Conc Aura reduces pushback effects by 55%, so you're spending 2 talent points for a .15 second (at best) reduction in pushback. Most people find 2% crit to be more beneficial, given its synergy with HC/IHC/SoL (for holy), and DA/Rapture for Disc.

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As mentioned above, I just want to re-emphasize: no-one is suggesting a Disc priest skip Divine Spirit. Great, wonderful, spectacular buff. Love it to death. However, Improved Divine Spirit is the most laughable waste of talent points since Lightwell was our 31st point talent. Actually, scratch that. Since Holy Nova was our 31st point talent.

It has been reported to me from people who tested it in-game that the Spell Power gained by IDS does actually stack with Flametongue/Wrath/Pact.

It does however not stack with the personal spirit scaling of a Warlock's Fel Armour.

Could be worth testing and/or reporting as it's not supposed to stack.

Maybe they changed their mind about buff stacking on this one?

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Yes, it's a decent talent. No, it's not something I think is more powerful than the alternatives. You figure out a spec that retains CoH, 6/6 IHC, 3/3 Serendipity, 5/5 Holy Spec, and 2/2 SoL while obviously keeping Meditation that also manages to get 2/2 Holy Reach, and I'll talk. :)

Drop desperate prayer and get 1/2 divine reach. My experience is that people simply don't realise what divine reach does for CoH. Its not easy to spot the fact that you are missing a target every 5-10 CoH, but if you do (and there are very few enounters where you dont) its easily a drop of 2-5% healing. Everytime you don't use CoH because you are missing 1-2 targets every time you cast it, divine reach is worth gold.

There is no question that divine reach is better than desperate prayer in terms of healing output and efficiency. Desperate prayer only pays its divident everytime it saves your life.

This is what I will spec at 80: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

=========================================

SoL:

@lvl 70: SoL+CoH -->20% crit:

chance to proc SoL = 1-(1-0.20/2)^5 = 0.40951

@80: SoL + CoH --> 25% crit:

chance to proc SoL = 1-(1-0.25/2)^6 = 0.551204681

Obviously you will get a lot of procs, but what does each of them do. Each proc gives you a free flash heal, but this FH cannot crit, and cannot proc serendipity. So that means the mana value of the heal is the mana cost of an FH, minus the FH glyph, - serendipity return - clearcasting.

At 70 with say an average serendipity return of 80%, 20% crit, and the flash heal glyph, that means 360odd mana. With 20% crit chance you also get 6-9% clearcasting which further reduces cost to ~330 mana. To give SoL every benefit of doubt I am going to ignore the fact that a clearcast has a better return than just reducing cost.

At 80 rasing the crit to 25% each proc saves you ~500 mana.

At the very best of situations u can use an SoL every 5 seconds. That means 330mp5 at 70 and 500mp5 at 80, or 165/250mp5 per point.

It certainly looks like a lot of regen, especially considering that healing prayers returns 35mp5/48mp5 or so from PoM and maybe something similar from PoH if you use it.

This is the theory anyway and it paints a far rosier picture for SoL than it deserves. In practice getting 1 SoL flash off every 5 seconds, is very very tough indeed. In BT I barely got off 1 every 15 seconds, despite heavy CoH usage, simply because it was pointless to use it. In most cases the damage would get healed by the AoE healing anyway, so the SoL just wasted time.

I personally dont accept that SoL is worth anything more than 80mp5 per point at 70 (I can't say much about it at 80). Its still more than healing prayers, but healing prayers doesn't make me bleed HPS.

I consider this a classic case of ppl getting excited about a talent that is not actually that great, simply because it procs a lot.

Comparing lightwell with SoL, it would take 15 SoL procs to produce the same healing and I just can't see how its possible to get that in under 2 minutes. However 15 SoL procs also cost you 22.5 seconds of casting time, while the lightwell just costs you 1.5 seconds. My personal experience is that that even if only half the charges of lightwell are used, it has a better return than SoL.

SoL is not a musthave at all. It can have a decent mana return, but its not really any better than the alternatives. Its a great deal of micromanagement, for no good reason. Lightwell and healing prayers, not only give you overall the same return, they also take a lot less micromanagement on your part and make PoH more usable opening up another option. Less time monitoring procs = more time concentrating on what you have to do.

If Divine providence is also changed to reduce PoM cooldown, then healing prayers will be hands down better than SoL.

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Its a great deal of micromanagement, for no good reason. Lightwell and healing prayers, not only give you overall the same return, they also take a lot less micromanagement on your part and make PoH more usable opening up another option. Less time monitoring procs = more time concentrating on what you have to do.

I don't really disagree with the rest of your post, but this is a bit silly. The game is played 1.5 seconds at a time. Not to sound like an e-thug, but if anyone is having trouble keeping up with that pace, it's time to find a new hobby. At the point in this game where it is worthwhile to care about the benefits of SoL compared to other things, when that tiny bit of mana you will or will not have will actually matter, if you can't keep track of if you have the SoL buff or not (which is quite easy to determine with any number of mods... or just by looking at the buff icon), then you should really be comfortable enough to where it is not a burden at all to 'micromanage' SoL, it will just be second nature.

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