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Arentios

Balance Glyphs

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edit2:

2pc + glyph tooltip = 2107 nature damage over 14 seconds.

glyph and no 2pc tooltip = 1953-1960 nature damage over 14 seconds.

That says the 2pc is additive.

mmo says untalented IS is 1290.

Splendor adds a tick: 1290*7/6 = 1505

Glyph adds 30%: 1505*1.3 = 1956.5

Additive 2pc gives: 1505*(1+.3+.1) = 2107

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I am using the Starfire, Moonfire, and Innervate glyphs, and I think that these are the best choices for a 25man raid considering the limited debuff slots that we have. IS is not worth a debuff slot imo unless it is applying the -3% hit debuff.

There is no debuff limit anymore, even if the UI can't show it they are still there.

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There is no debuff limit anymore, even if the UI can't show it they are still there.

I posted that before Blizzard announced the debuff changes, but yes you are correct. With the most challenging encounter in game currently being Sartharion with 3 drakes up, and for the most part dps on the drakes being more important than a -3% physical hit debuff on them or Sartharion, I am changing my 3rd glyph from Innervate to Insect Swarm.

For all other encounters currently, keeping the tank alive through physical damage is trivial, so I feel that I can justify using it for now and also have a bit more fun with the peen-meters as an added bonus.

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I've heard several Moonkin question whether Glyph of Moonfire is worth it. They see 75% increase and 90% decrease and think, "Doesn't that mean I'm losing more damage than I'm gaining?" The thing with Moonfire is, the DoT is _more damage_ than the initial blast. Overall, it is a net increase in Moonfire damage, even when not boosted by the Starfire glyph.

To be honets, it really depends on your cycle, and how you use moonfire. If you are one that uses MF in your cycle, and if you have the starfire glyph and your cycle is dependent on SF then its an amazing glyph. If you are like me, and you rarely use moonfire besides an initial blow, or a finishing blow, then its pretty useless.

Also the fact that you cannot switch glyphs with ease, having this glyph and pvping causes a lot of difficulties. How often do you actually use Moonfire as a DoT in pvp? rarly, but its used to finish off a running healer pretty often!

So yes its an amazing glyph for a starfire based cycle, but for a wrath based cycle its not so amazing. :)

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The value of the MF glyph depends on how many ticks you get. On a Boss you should be getting at least five, but on trash (and in PvP), you might average considerably less.

At 50% MF crit (with CSD), fully talented, this shows the extra damage/cast you get from the Glyph, as a function of the number of DoT ticks. Third column assumes target has 10% resil (22% less crit damage, 10% less DoT damage).

Extra damage/cast from MF Glyph


Ticks	Glyph	10% Resil

0	-1247	-1149

1	-830	-749

2	-412	-350

3	6	50

4	423	449

5	841	848

6	1258	1248

7	1676	1647

8	2094	2047

At lower gear levels (say 1500 +spell), you need to average slightly more than three ticks for the Glyph to come out ahead.

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Extra damage/cast from MF Glyph


Ticks	Glyph	10% Resil

0	-1247	-1149

1	-830	-749

2	-412	-350

3	6	50

4	423	449

5	841	848

6	1258	1248

7	1676	1647

8	2094	2047

At lower gear levels (say 1500 +spell), you need to average slightly more than three ticks for the Glyph to come out ahead.

Your math above shows that you need at least 6 ticks for the Glyph to come out ahead.

Anyway, I don't see why any raiding Moonkin wouldn't be taking Starfire and Moonfire with the only debatable glyph being the third. IS if your raid composition can use it and Innervate if it doesn't need it.

I hope we will get some more glyphs with 3.1 because it's getting to be pretty much a cookie cutter scenario here.

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Your math above shows that you need at least 6 ticks for the Glyph to come out ahead.

What am I missing here? It looks like the 3rd MF tick is the first with a gain....

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Your math above shows that you need at least 6 ticks for the Glyph to come out ahead.
The chart shows cumulative damage. In round numbers, with the glyph, you do 1200 less direct damage, but make it up with ticks that do 400 extra damage, each. You break even after three ticks, and are ahead after four or more.

Anyway, I don't see why any raiding Moonkin wouldn't be taking Starfire and Moonfire with the only debatable glyph being the third.
Certainly true. I think the MF glyph is questionable, at best for PvP, since dispells, the need for instant casts, and short fights all tend to reduce the value of the DoT.

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Has anyone looked at the glyph of focus yet?

Glyph of Focus -- Increases the damage done by Starfall by 20%, but decreases its radius by 50%.

For a minor glyph, if you're trying to increase your dps, it seems like you can't really go wrong with it?

I'll probably drop dash for focus to help max. my dps.

P.S. I know it's not out quite yet.. 3.0.8??

P.P.S Seems like the reduced radius would be beneficial too in not aggroing something unintended...

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Has anyone looked at the glyph of focus yet?

Glyph of Focus -- Increases the damage done by Starfall by 20%, but decreases its radius by 50%.

For a minor glyph, if you're trying to increase your dps, it seems like you can't really go wrong with it?

I'll probably drop dash for focus to help max. my dps.

Starfall is an amazing spell even in single target scenarios. If you were to get this glyph, you'd have to dps from 18 yards away vs 36.

I personally find that a burden.

For raid aoeing, it's also less likely to hit the mobs you want to hit (I'm not always standing smack dab in the middle of them).

For aoe grinding, this is an amazing glyph.

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Has anyone confirmed that it is actually a Minor Glyph? I've been trying to find out whether it is or not with little success.

Also the Glyph of Typhoon, is that minor as well? - Off course it would be silly if either of these were major glyphs given that balance druids are very short on useful minor glyphs not to mention, the moonfire/sf combination with either IS or Inn in the third would make those 2 almost unused as Major glyphs.

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The icons for the the Typhoon and Focus glyphs show blue ink; blue ink is indicative of it being a minor glyph. Add to this the distinct lack of minor glyphs, the fact there's already a starfall major glyph (increases duration by 2 seconds) and it's very likely that both of the new glyphs are minor glyphs.

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I seem to be in the minority here, but I am a huge advocate of the knockback on Typhoon and will not be picking up the glyph. There are a few reasons for this, but the biggest two are below:

1. The knockback IS useful in raids in the first place. Let me back up though, first I must admit I have never been yelled at or informed to not use my knockback on AoE pulls. The mobs usually just run right back to the tank and most of the time no one probably realizes it happens. On this same note, there are even a couple of fights where I have come to rely on the knockback. As others have mentioned using it on skeles for gluth is nice if one slips by. In fact, I position myself close to gluth so I can protect from this happening. Also, on Gothik there are times when healers aggro mobs right off the back, so again I am proactive and stand just in front of them, so that as mobs run to them I can knock them back so a tank has time to pick them up. There may even be more uses for Typhoon, but these 2 fights jump out at me when I think about how I use Typhoon in a raid.

2. My second gripe with this glyph is cery simply that it offers no REAL PvE benefit. As we all have talked about in other threads and here, mana is NOT an issue. Would I consider giving up the knockback for extra damage? Yes. But to save mana? It just is not worth it.

Now that being said I can see this glyph being very nice for any moonkin who is getting in trouble for using typhoon on AoE packs, but to be honest I can not see an issue with doing it. If it made a tank lose aggro it would be an issue, otherwise there is no hard by the little knockback.

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I would be taking it for raids, personally, it will help me with less mana, but I have noticed that certain tanks really hate the knockback effect, alot. Especially warriors who have a harder time with aoe tanking.

It also seems to confuses quite a few tanks and annoy other AoEers that use targeters. The worse off course is Thunderstorm. So with Glyph of Focus available, I would like them to double if not treble the knockback distance of Typhoon, because outside raids, I can always reglyph. [if you're not a scribe, just gather mats for 10 Glyphs and ask a friend to make.

I use to time my Typhoons with stuns or Frost Novas, but that very often meant interrupting a Hurricane and wasting mana recasting onek with this Glyph to avoid annoying tanks and other AoEers, I can avoid that.

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I also intend to keep Typhoon as it is, unglyphed. The mention of Gluth and the uses on stray puppy chow illustrates my thoughts on the matter well: with its knockback, Typhoon is a tool as well as a good AOE damage spell. For the most part, the knockback has not been an issue for me in any of the 25 man Wrath raids, and there are situations in which it is useful. Were I to glyph Typhoon, that would be one less tool at my disposal, and it's important to remember that while the role of Balance is DPS, we should not focus on DPS to the exclusion of the formidable utility and versatility we can provide. ...besides which, as mentioned above, the glyph doesn't even improve Typhoon's damage. I can't run out of mana if I'm trying to, so that's just not a consideration.

My jury's still out on the Starfall glyph. If it is indeed a minor glyph (here's hoping!) I might give it a whirl, but yeah, the decreased range has its plusses and minuses.

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Updated with 3.1 glyphs (Typhoon and new Starfall). Neither of these are learnable on the PTR, only datamined, so their actual effects once they're put in might be altered from the current values.

Neither of these glyphs impresses me much, they're both highly situational, unless Ulduar has a plethora of AoE encounters. Unless you change glyphs on an encounter by encounter basis, I just can't see them getting much use compared to the current line-up of IS/MF/SF.

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Updated with 3.1 glyphs (Typhoon and new Starfall). Neither of these are learnable on the PTR, only datamined, so their actual effects once they're put in might be altered from the current values.

Neither of these glyphs impresses me much, they're both highly situational, unless Ulduar has a plethora of AoE encounters. Unless you change glyphs on an encounter by encounter basis, I just can't see them getting much use compared to the current line-up of IS/MF/SF.

Uh, Starfall is high enough DPET to warrant casting on cooldown. Lower the cooldown by half, and the benefit of the talent goes up. Since it's worth ~63 DPS (in my current, nowhere-near-BiS gear), that makes the glyph also worth ~63 DPS. Which puts it about even with the Starfire glyph if you're keeping 100% MF uptime (and hence clipping MF).

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Speaking of only trash, i strongly suspect there'll be less AOEing going on. There was a blue post a while back, basically saying they're looking to introduce PvE crowd control back in the game.

In fact, it may very well be there is going to be more CCing going on on boss encounters as well. Since a lot of player CC is damage-interruptible, starfall draws the short straw there.

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I imagine they also intend to improve the coefficient on starfall as well. It should be tested if it's changed already on PTR

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If starfall coefficient does go up this patch, combined with the Glyph if that to does go in, then I will quickly drop the IIS glyph in favor of starfall.

Need to see what the T8 set bonus is though. ATM we're gonna be losing 10% from T7 making the change over on IS. Losing the 30% from Glyph could greatly limit how often I even bother to keep it up. If T8 promotes IS upkeep to gain dps, then IIS glyph may still prove worth it.

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I imagine they also intend to improve the coefficient on starfall as well. It should be tested if it's changed already on PTR

The coefficient on live is already way up from the old reported values (2.3% per big star, 0.5% per splash). Current values are about 5% and 1.2%. That puts the full-duration coefficient on a single target at around 60% (compared to about 74% for Wrath+WoC+Moonfury, or 19.3% for Typhoon).

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Need to see what the T8 set bonus is though.

I've heard that they're likely to keep the set bonuses the same throughout tiers now, with the ability to mix pieces from each set and still get the bonuses (I believe the S1-4 PvP sets did this?).

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I took the Typhoon glyph. I don't pvp much on my druid, and Typhoon is useful on sarth for adds. The tanks in my guild get annoyed with Knockback, so I figured why not take it. It doesn't really make that big a difference anyways. As for Gluth, Atleast, in my guild, the adds rarely get into the raid so its np, and if one does, I usually just root it, go bear, Taunt it, and pull it back to the kiting tank/hunter.

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I've heard that they're likely to keep the set bonuses the same throughout tiers now, with the ability to mix pieces from each set and still get the bonuses (I believe the S1-4 PvP sets did this?).

This quote for Ghostcrawler suggests the set bonuses will change.

The Shadow Ulduar 4 piece set bonus is pretty sweet too.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 3.1 shadow priest of the future.

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