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Mearis

Shadowpriest Theory Craft - 3.2.2 Edition!

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Spirit increases damage though, intellect does not.

Incorrect.

Intellect boosts your crit rate which has a direct effect on damage.

It also (by virtue of increasing your crit rate) increases the uptime on Improved Spirit Tap. Which in turn boosts your average spirit. Which of course (thanks to the glyph and the talent) boosts the amount of +spellpower you have which boosts your DPS.

Simcraft is giving the following rough "AEP" numbers for a roughly Naxx25 geared Priest:

The value of each stat compared to spellpower.

1 spellpower = 1 spellpower (obviously)

1 hit = 1.14 spellpower (up to cap)

1 crit rating = 0.61 spellpower

1 haste rating = 0.56 spellpower

1 spirit = 0.21 spellpower

1 int = 0.19 spellpower

Now obviously things aren't as simple as just that of course, but around the Naxx gear level such numbers can be a handy guide when weighing up items if you don't feel like running SimulationCraft for each new gear set.

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Incorrect.

Intellect boosts your crit rate which has a direct effect on damage.

It also (by virtue of increasing your crit rate) increases the uptime on Improved Spirit Tap. Which in turn boosts your average spirit. Which of course (thanks to the glyph and the talent) boosts the amount of +spellpower you have which boosts your DPS.

Simcraft is giving the following rough "AEP" numbers for a roughly Naxx25 geared Priest:

The value of each stat compared to spellpower.

1 spellpower = 1 spellpower (obviously)

1 hit = 1.14 spellpower (up to cap)

1 crit rating = 0.61 spellpower

1 haste rating = 0.56 spellpower

1 spirit = 0.21 spellpower

1 int = 0.19 spellpower

Now obviously things aren't as simple as just that of course, but around the Naxx gear level such numbers can be a handy guide when weighing up items if you don't feel like running SimulationCraft for each new gear set.

Excellent, thanks - you are of course correct, I didn't consider the effect of int on crit. I am very surprised to see that it is so close though: 1 spirit gives 10% damage, and improved spirit tap/shadowform glyph, that increases by a fair bit more. Our int to crit conversion used to be abysmal, so I am very surprised to see it so high.

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For those of you curious about what a Lightweave Embroidery can do, here's a parse from our 25-man Naxx last night:

Wow Web Stats

The holy bolt proc was about 1% of my damage, so we can ballpark it at ~30 dps.

Per simulationcraft, 23 haste rating (for a gear set much better than what I currently have) is 23 * 0.7 = 16.1 dps.

The embroidery looks to be a clear winner here.

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The reason why it's so close is spirit is a crap stat for DPS, it's not really a statement on intellect being so high.

Improved Spirit Tap is mostly garbage if you don't need the mana regen. Even if you have 700 spirit buffed, a crit is gaining you a whopping 7 spellpower.

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Wouldn't Inner Focus be better than one extra point in Blackout for AoE situations if used with Mind Sear?

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There was something that I personally had seen mentioned about SW:D. This is just what I do personally and it seems to fit well with me. It seems that once every other rotation (after the initial Shadow Weaving build) you can force MB and SWD into the same GCD. (this occurs immediately after reapplying VT) and then I resume MF while other spells are on cooldown.

Was just wondering if anyone saw benefit to this or ran a similar "Rotation" (I use the term rotation because even though it is priority based, some sort of spell rotation will always appear ^_^)

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The reason why it's so close is spirit is a crap stat for DPS, it's not really a statement on intellect being so high.

Improved Spirit Tap is mostly garbage if you don't need the mana regen. Even if you have 700 spirit buffed, a crit is gaining you a whopping 7 spellpower.

Mostly garbage and still better than any points in blackout (for raiding that is.)

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There was something that I personally had seen mentioned about SW:D. This is just what I do personally and it seems to fit well with me. It seems that once every other rotation (after the initial Shadow Weaving build) you can force MB and SWD into the same GCD. (this occurs immediately after reapplying VT) and then I resume MF while other spells are on cooldown.

Was just wondering if anyone saw benefit to this or ran a similar "Rotation" (I use the term rotation because even though it is priority based, some sort of spell rotation will always appear ^_^)

I haven't been able to do this at all... MB is a 1.5s cast, are you sure you're just not chaining both back to back? When I use SW:D is typically when I open up (VT,MB,SW:D). MB and SW:D will both land at the theoretical same time, but they will still have their own GCD.

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It's entirely possible that chaining is what's occurring but there seems to be no delay at all. If I am actually forcing them into one GCD it would because i'm using an instant cast immediately following a cast. (That's the reason I posted it here =) to stand corrected ^_^)

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I've always found myself having to wait the GCD out after the combo, from what I can recall, at least. I'll play around tonight and see if that does occur.

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It's not focusing them into one GCD. MB is a 1.5 cast so it receives the same amount of haste as your GCD. Only two possibilities exist:

SWD, <GCD> MB(GCD overlaps) or MB(GCD overlaps) SWD <GCD>

They are exactly the same from a dps perspective.

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Does anyone know if the Glyph of SW:P stacks with Twisted faith additively or multiplicatively :)?

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Hey, I couldn't post a new thread, so I will write here instead, since it is about raiding.

I wonder if there are any good addons for a shadowpriest? I would for example like an addon that shows dots on all mobs i have dots on like focus targets or something, that show an icon and name, and debuffs under them (also bosses), but only your debuffs and not others. Or something that makes me see debuffs easier, cause with wow-standard setting(which I am using now) it's really hard keeping such things up.

Thankful for all answers or ideas!

Greetings

Feiszt

Shadowpriest.

(this account was created when i played my rogue)

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Hey, I couldn't post a new thread, so I will write here instead, since it is about raiding.

I wonder if there are any good addons for a shadowpriest? I would for example like an addon that shows dots on all mobs i have dots on like focus targets or something, that show an icon and name, and debuffs under them (also bosses), but only your debuffs and not others. Or something that makes me see debuffs easier, cause with wow-standard setting(which I am using now) it's really hard keeping such things up.

Thankful for all answers or ideas!

Greetings

Feiszt

Shadowpriest.

(this account was created when i played my rogue)

try DoTimer

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Regarding Shadow Word: Death, I'll note that Mind Flay seems to beat Death on paper, but it also depends on gearing levels. I want to see actual WWS reports to decide when its worth casting. My suspicion is that if you have 2 seconds until your next "cooldown" and can't cast anything but Death and a clipped Mind Flay, then Mind Flay is the right choice, regardless of gear levels. But if you only have 1.5 seconds, Death will be the right choice at certain gear levels. Again, this is just speculation, and we need actual data to make this decision.

I'd actually say that in practice, SWD is the correct choice in both situations.

Mind Flay "clipping" is dead with the current Mind Flay implementation. The ticks no longer occur at even intervals on the channel so you can't clip with any precision.

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I would agree with Meltface. A single tick of MF (which is all you'll get probably) is not equal in damage to even a non crit Death. However, if you only have 1.5 seconds, I would not cast a Death because taking into account lag and GCD it's quite possible that if all you have is 1.5 seconds, you'll end up letting something drop off or clip. So if you're waiting you could be better off renewing your touch early if you have like less than 3 seconds left or something rather than risking tossing a death in and probably letting something drop off.

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I checked the whole thread really quick, and I did not see anyone talking about it, but wouldn't Glyph of Shadow word: Death be best for dps as last glyph? I mean, that spell might not be in our rotation, but maybe it would be worth it to bring it in when the mob is under 35% when you have the glyph?

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I checked the whole thread really quick, and I did not see anyone talking about it, but wouldn't Glyph of Shadow word: Death be best for dps as last glyph? I mean, that spell might not be in our rotation, but maybe it would be worth it to bring it in when the mob is under 35% when you have the glyph?

I really don't think so.

Glyph of Shadow

Glyph of Shadow Word: Pain

Glyph of Mind Flay

OR

Glyph of Dispel Magic

Glyph of SW:D is more of a PvP Glyph, in my opinion. The DPS increase from it seems very minimal given 35% is generally when BL's and Hero's get popped, or are still effective, so that 10% could easily be surpassed by all other spells.

Of course, numbers showing differ would change things a bit.

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Also, with respect to the Glyph of Shadow Word: Death, looking at simulationcrafts sample output SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code using the Naxx10 gear set shows only a ~0.6% dps increase from using the glyph.

There is a stipulation where the the other shadowpriest actor (Priest_14_0_57_NoSWD) has dropped Shadow Word: Death from his toolbox completely.

Personally, I have yet to use a Glyph of Shadow Word: Death nor find an inscriptor on my server to make the glyph. However, I do actively use Shadow Word: Death on most fights so maybe I'm penalizing myself dps-wise by doing so.

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I belive that SW: D does more damage than mindflay does in 1,5sec. aslong as you can do a mindflay after the sw:d. I tried diffrent rotations yesterday in naxxramas, and I noticed a dps increase (might have been the bosses though) while using sw: D when there were 4,5 or more sec left untill MB cooldown or a dot was going off.

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On the topic of WWS:

How are people finding their damage compared to 'non hybrid' DPS? We have an exceptional very well geared mage, and my gear is still very suboptimal with several level 70 pieces, but I find that I tipically end up doing ~1000-1500 DPS below what the pure classes are clocking in. Looking at the top DPS WWS, this seems to stay true as well.

I thought with the expansion, their stated goal was to have pure classes such as mages/hunters/warlocks/rogues about 10% ahead of hybrids DPS, but right now the margin seems to be at least 30%. Is this due to lack of familiarity with cycles/gear difference, or is anyone able to stay within 10% of mages/hunters at similar gear levels right now? A cursory glance at shadowpriest damage seems to show that shadowpriests with current gear hover around ~4000 DPS max, and hunters/mages are well over 5500+ dps.

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Just out of curiosity, how important is the Improved mind blast talent? I was looking into the shadow tree for a way to make a pve and pvp hybrid spec which included silence but i could not fill up the other good PvE talents, so i thought maybe i could drop some in improved MB.

Would a build like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft be a significant dps decrease over the standard PvE dps build?

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I've thought about whether to use the Glyph of SW: D or the Glyph of Shadow as my last glyph. If you really read the Glyph of SW: D properly, it is practically useless 65% of the time, and the 10% increase during the last 35% of the time would only mean a flat rate of 3.5% of the overall SW: D's dps. Many a time, the useage of SW: D also depends on your healers, if they're good enough to notice your health, SW: D might be in your rotation often, however when it comes down to fights where healers are busy, then the glyph of SW: D is as good as useless. The Glyph of Shadow procs everytime you crit, that which cannot be controlled, and if you were to have a high crit rate, it would mean a stable increase of output dps, which in my opinion would be the better choice over Glyph of SW: D.

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On the topic of WWS:

How are people finding their damage compared to 'non hybrid' DPS? We have an exceptional very well geared mage, and my gear is still very suboptimal with several level 70 pieces, but I find that I tipically end up doing ~1000-1500 DPS below what the pure classes are clocking in. Looking at the top DPS WWS, this seems to stay true as well.

At the moment I'm usually finding myself between #1 and #5 on WWS, though one of the reasons could be that I'm currently one of our best equipped DDs (itemlvl-wise).

Wow Web Stats

Some people in the log are still completely lvl 70 equipped or lack a bunch of hit, so this shouldnt be taken as a realistic comparison.

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How are people finding their damage compared to 'non hybrid' DPS? We have an exceptional very well geared mage, and my gear is still very suboptimal with several level 70 pieces, but I find that I tipically end up doing ~1000-1500 DPS below what the pure classes are clocking in.

Right now our WWS mainly seems to reflect relative gear levels, but we have a demo lock and a pair of BM hunters clocking in at almost exactly the same DPS as me with them having less raid or heroic level L80 gear. I imagine they'll be significantly ahead of me by the time they replace all their blues and L70 raid gear. I don't know where rogues and mages fit into the picture as ours seem to be struggling with gear and adjusting to their new cycles...

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