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chalon

WotLK Rogue Gear Discussion

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Several thousand seems to be much less than it will end up being, even accounting for variance in servers. Mine has each card going for 1.5k-3k gold per. At a 1/32 chance of getting any particular card that you might need, that seems even more viable than trying to commission an inscriptor to make them. Congratulations on getting your deck made, though.

I wish there were some other, more reliable way of working towards these cards; too many things seem to be gold sinks in LK.

Back on topic, however, I'd like to know about how confident we are that our stat weightings have been nailed down such that the best in slot items for each spec are actually best in slot, and won't be leapfrogged by a potential miscalculation in the value of expertise/hit/ap/agi/etc. I know updates have been made to the spreadsheets, but are they good enough to show which items we should absolutely be looking for? I don't want to be grabbing items, say, over a feral druid or enh shaman when it might be their best in slot but not necessarily mine.

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Ouch, 1.5k-3k is incredibly high. On Lightbringer I was able to get some in the ~500g range, got lucky on some crafts, and made some trades. Overall I spent maybe 5 or 6k.

Regarding your other question, I think the weapons at least is pretty decisive. And it's also pretty decisive that you want to run 4 piece T7.25. The best combo is to get helm, shoulders, chest, gloves and for legs run [item]Leggings of the Honored[/item]. I don't think that will change much.

But for something like [item]Dawnwalkers[/item] vs. [item]Footwraps of Vile Deceit[/item], it's really very close and hard to say definitively one or the other. Personally I prefer Vile Deceit because a.) I need Expertise Rating from that slot (for me, having high Expertise is important as Mutilate, even though the spreadsheets disagree) and b.) It has a socket which makes it more flexible. That's not to say that Dawnwalkers aren't good -- they are itemized well, it's just I prefer Vile Deceit.

But in these tossup cases, if there is a DPS difference, you're talking on the magnitude of 5 DPS @ 5k overall DPS, so 0.1%.

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Regarding your other question, I think the weapons at least is pretty decisive. And it's also pretty decisive that you want to run 4 piece T7.25. The best combo is to get helm, shoulders, chest, gloves and for legs run [item]Leggings of the Honored[/item]. I don't think that will change much.

When I plugged an optimal setup into the spreadsheet, I found different results.

I saw the optimal offset piece to use was chest of the recluse for mutilate, and frosted adroit handguards for combat.

The expertise was the difference.

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Well, it will depend a bit on what other non-set pieces you're running, I imagine. But you can pretty easily cover 213 expertise without the Malygos BP, in which case its values greatly diminishes.

In any event, all three of those are smart pieces to swap out simply because they are ilvl 226 alternatives.

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I've noticed that some T7-T7.5 has lots of haste but little or no expertise. Would it be better to enchant/gem for expertise as a Muti rogue, or just stack AP for larger poison damge?

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I've noticed that some T7-T7.5 has lots of haste but little or no expertise. Would it be better to enchant/gem for expertise as a Muti rogue, or just stack AP for larger poison damge?

Gem for whatever the spreadsheet says is better.

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Well, [item]Sinister Revenge[/item] is likely the best off-hand in any event. But it's only very, very slightly better than dual Webbed Deaths.

The main issue with this is that every rogue will want Webbed Death, because it is the best weapon for both specs, so until you get enough to start giving people a second one, you probably want to look for the next best alternative.

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No one has mentioned it yet but how do you think 2 piece Slayer's stacks up against some of these upgrades? 5% haste on slice and dice seems pretty huge even compared to the raw stat upgrades wotlk items offer...

Just going by shadowpanther for the sake of argument.

slayer's wrist - 112 maep

sinner's bindings - 167 maep

+55

slayer's boot - 162 maep

footwraps vile deceit - 230 maep

+68

slayers belt - 158 maep

stalk skin - 223 maep

+65

Passing on the smallest upgrades in favor of Slayer's 2pc you lose 120 MAEP from raw stats but gain the 5% haste on snd. I'm not too great at haste calculations, someone check my math here :X Going to use my gear which currently has 230 haste rating, or almost exactly 7% haste. I got Torment of the Banished (2.6 spd)

Using

Hasted Speed = Weapon Speed / ( (1+(Haste1 %)) * (1+(Haste2 %)) * (1+(((Haste Rating 1 + Haste Rating 2 + ... )/100)/32.8)) )

2pc hasted speed = 2.6 / (1.35 * 1.07)
So if I wanted to achieve the same weapon speed without 2 pc slayers I would have to add X haste rating to my gear:
non-2pc hasted speed = 2.6 / {1.30 * [1+ (((230 + X) / 100) / 32.8)]}
2.6 / {1.30 * [1+ (((230 + X) / 100) / 32.8)]} = 2.6 / (1.35 * 1.07)

X = 129 Haste rating (i think :aaa:)

Shadowpanther values 1 Haste rating at .90 MAEP so

129 Haste rating = 116 MAEP

So 120 maep vs 116 maep, those are pretty close values. Unless I'm retarded :D

So I guess the point is to keep the 2pc slayer's until you can replace all 3 of the Sunwell Slayer's pieces with some of the high end wotlk epics that Chalon or shadowpanther list.

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Several thousand seems to be much less than it will end up being, even accounting for variance in servers. Mine has each card going for 1.5k-3k gold per. At a 1/32 chance of getting any particular card that you might need, that seems even more viable than trying to commission an inscriptor to make them. Congratulations on getting your deck made, though.

That's pretty painful. I guess we've had it easy - I picked up a few for 300-400k, made a couple I needed, been AHing the remains for 400g which is roughly the cost of icethorn/adders stacks + eternal life on our server right now, though herb prices are rising fast. Just missing the Ace and 7 of Nobles now.

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What are the thoughts about [iTEM]Mark of Norgannon[/iTEM]? It seems like it would be very good underneath the expertise cap, and the use on it is incredible; how does it stack up against the other available trinkets?

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Hey guys, I did my best to scan this topic for information relating to question, but I didnt see it mentioned so I wanted to ask for mutilate, what would be the best gem choices for the orange gem?

I wasnt sure if mutilate would benefit more from 8 agi / 8 crit or 8 agi / 8 haste better. I was thinking that it would be Haste since Mutilate damage relies largely on poison procs.

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As ever, the answer is 'check the spreadsheet'.

I know thats the answer for any question when someone asks about a piece of gear, but since this is a discussion board about gear, I figured someone with more knowledge than me wouldn't mind sharing their insight.

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Mutilate Gemming

Red = [item]Bright Scarlet Ruby[/item], [item]Delicate Scarlet Ruby[/item], or [item]Precise Scarlet Ruby[/item], depending on your EP weight and/or what you want

Yellow = If below spell hit cap, [item]Accurate Monarch Topaz[/item], [item]Pristine Monarch Topaz[/item], or [item]Glinting Monarch Topaz[/item]. If above spell hit cap, [item]Deadly Monarch Topaz[/item] or [item]Wicked Monarch Topaz[/item]

Blue = Gem Red if you've covered the 1 blue meta requirements. Otherwise, [item]Balanced Twilight Opal[/item], [item]Shifting Twilight Opal[/item], or [item]Guardian's Twilight Opal[/item].

Of course, if you're a JC, you should socket your JC gems first in your blue sockets, and then in your yellow sockets.

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Hmm it seems the Darkmoon Card: Death has revealed itself. It is quite good, however how does it stand in comparison to Mirror of Truth? I'm asking cause there is no way its better then Darkmoon Card: Greatness

Proc chance: listed as 35% under wowhead

Internal CD: ? I suppose we could say it is 45sec or 15sec( as with [iTEM]Timbal's Focusing Crystal[/iTEM])

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Based on the rough estimate EP weights, 85 haste is ~119 EP. So the proc would have to be worth over ~200 EP in order for [item]Darkmoon Card: Death[/item] to be better than [item]Mirror of Truth[/item]. Unless it has no ICD, it's pretty unlikely the proc will be worth that much.

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Hmm it seems the Darkmoon Card: Death has revealed itself.

That does appear changed from what I remember it being (which specified spell damage). I suppose it's quality is going to depend greatly on the cooldown. 45 seconds puts it firmly behind [item]Bandit's Insignia[/item] which does significantly more damge/proc.

If it's 15 seconds, it probably pulls ahead at ~3k dmg/45 seconds as opposed to 2k/45.

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Hmm it seems the Darkmoon Card: Death has revealed itself. It is quite good, however how does it stand in comparison to Mirror of Truth? I'm asking cause there is no way its better then Darkmoon Card: Greatness

Proc chance: listed as 35% under wowhead

Internal CD: ? I suppose we could say it is 45sec or 15sec( as with [iTEM]Timbal's Focusing Crystal[/iTEM])

I do like the fact that the wording on the proc is "each time you deal damage" instead of attacking. So perhaps it will not proc off Sap or Pickpockets like other trinkets do.

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But will not proc on miss/dodge and similar? Consider how low on hit we are running nowadays, it may be an issue

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But will not proc on miss/dodge and similar? Consider how low on hit we are running nowadays, it may be an issue

If it is indeed a high proc rate with an internal cooldown, it would not make that much difference; we're talking extra tenths of seconds between procs. It would make more of a difference if it did not have an ICD.

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Hi.

I got a question maybe some of the members on this forum can answer for me :)

I'm playing mutilate 51-13-7

I currently got 411 hit, mainly from socketing my gear with alot of hit thinking that I would try to get closer to that hit cap.

My gear isn't great yet but it's comming along and My question is this: How much hit are you guys playing with and which stat do you find better? Crit og hit?

And how much hit are you planning on getting? I know there are no magical number(s) and that not what I'm asking for. I just haven't raided hardcore in ages and would like to know which stats other raiding rogues are aiming for in LK.

Sorry if this have been posted before and I would really like if someone directed me to the link as I have been browsing around without finding any good info.

The correct answer is "Whichever stats the spreadsheet says are best."

Specifically, for mutilate, this will tend to be in my experience:

Expertise until cap > 2AP > 1 Agi > 'yellow stats'

If you need to gem yellow,

Hit before poison cap > Haste > Crit > Hit after poison cap

Your mileage may of course vary, depending on buffs, gear, and encounter design - a hit of 411 is significantly higher than the point of diminishing returns (the poison cap) for any spec including precision, even unbuffed. You can probably safely gem away from it.

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I know there are no magical number(s) and that not what I'm asking for.

I just haven't raided hardcore in ages and would like to know which stats other raiding rogues are aiming for in LK.

Those two sentences do not go together. You're saying you know there is no magic number, then asking for a magic number. Stop doing that.

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What are the thoughts about [iTEM]Mark of Norgannon[/iTEM]? It seems like it would be very good underneath the expertise cap, and the use on it is incredible; how does it stack up against the other available trinkets?

There's a useful list of all rogue trinks at Rogue - WotLK Loot (towards the end of the page). FoFF and Grim Toll are the other main ones to aim for it seems. ToBA is nice as well ofc if you can get it for a semi-reasonable price.

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