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frmorrison

Pawn Values for all Specs: Updated to 3.3

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I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.

Baba, what pawn is asking you for is equivalence, it helps you try to come up with numbers. The strings we create can be imported using the 'import' function in the options section.

As I mentioned before, its all relative, so if you want your numbers to be lower (e.g. instead of 100,000 for a rating, 1000, divide by 100).

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I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.

That is what I did. Ultimately, you want to keep all the values correctly relative to one another whether that is 168 to 127 or 1.68 to 1.27. The ratio is what is important not the total number.

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Just updated a couple of the values based on the discussion and added the wowhead equivalence ratings.

One thing I'd like to note, most of what we're seeing here is PvE equivalence, and in some cases (e.g. the current redcape strings) heavily favor weapons, to a potential fault. Adding more stats will inflate the numbers, but do you feel that its more important to have more specific strings, or a more generic valuation of gear ?

How do you use your pawn ?

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How do you use your pawn ?

Right now I have four scales, one for healing, one for tanking, one for DPS (primary set because of my ret spec) and another for PVP which I would like to tune a little better until I can get my hands on some entry-level Gladiator stuff. The healing and tanking sets are based off of values I've found off of Wowhead's theorycrafting forum discussing WotLK weights. Also, I use my scales mostly in assisting me in determining which item is more geared to my specific focus.

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Just updated a couple of the values based on the discussion and added the wowhead equivalence ratings.

One thing I'd like to note, most of what we're seeing here is PvE equivalence, and in some cases (e.g. the current redcape strings) heavily favor weapons, to a potential fault. Adding more stats will inflate the numbers, but do you feel that its more important to have more specific strings, or a more generic valuation of gear ?

How do you use your pawn ?

I think it would be nice to stay somewhat generic. However, I would like to see strings when not hit capped, when hit capped, same with expertise.

We all know it's not linear, but having couple of guidelines like that could be helpful.

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How do you use your pawn ?

Totaly generic, just for quick look whether I should look into the comparison a bit more. If I see 2 items in reasonable point difference span, then I usualy run spreadsheet or quick proper yet napkin math on them.

I think it would be nice to stay somewhat generic. However, I would like to see strings when not hit capped, when hit capped, same with expertise.

We all know it's not linear, but having couple of guidelines like that could be helpful.

I really think having those hit and exp capped strings will be very helpful indeed. And while someone is at it, could you input the socket value of 168.09x16 (reflecting rare STR gems socketing possibility) - 2689,44 More details to it can be found on previous page, as well as the bordering limits of following socket bonuses for everyone's info. Thanks.

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Protection Strings

( Pawn: v1: "wowhead PvE prot": Defense=100, Stamina=98, DodgeRating=94, ParryRating=88, Agility=81, BlockRating=63, SpellPower=38, ExpertiseRating=25, Intellect=25, BlockValue=25, SpellHitRating=19, Armor=8) Added Nov 25

You're not rating Strength at all ? Shouldn't it be at least 0.575 * Block Value => 0.575 * 25 = 14.375

And that's not even accounting for the threat component

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For Prot I've been using the values found at Wowhead's TC forum...

Plate Armor - Items - World of Warcraft

Defense: 100

Stamina: 98

Dodge: 86

Parry: 76

Agility: 76

Block Rating: 38

Strength: 38

Expertise: 25

Block Value: 25

Hit Rating: 19

Armor: 8

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What equivalency rating are you all using for the chaotic skyflare meta?

I just added a meta value for the 21 agility/3% crit meta (I prefer it over the 21 crit meta). I just did agility value * 21 and adding a bit for the crit bonus. The dps gain of the crit bonus is 3% * crit rate, so that is hard to give that a value, since that is about a 1% dps gain.

I also lowered expertise's value for Prot, since it only affects three attacks (auto, Seals and HotR).

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I installed Pawn but when it asks for the values it says 1 strength = ? Should I be dividing the 168.09 by 100 seeing that redcapes numbers were based off 100 of each stat, not just 1, or should I just input the strings as stated above regardless of what pawns says its based off of.

I just want to make sure that I am doing this properly.

I divided each number by 100 to get somewhat more reasonable totals on items, but it doesn't make any difference really. As long as the relative values remain the same you can divide and multiply each number by whatever you wish. Leaving the numbers as is will just make the resulting sums 100x larger than they "should" be. Just make sure to change all numbers or none by the same factor, and it will be the same result.

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What equivalency rating are you all using for the chaotic skyflare meta?

That is a good question. I value the 3% crit damage component at 93.35 dps. That is simply what my sheet showed as the dps difference when I removed it. That value will change with your dps total, but if you are using the values my spreadsheet spits out currently it should be a great place to start.

So if str = 168.09, then 3% crit meta is worth 9335 + the value of 21 crit rating.

I personally divided all the values by 100 for pawn purposes to make my results smaller, so in my personal pawn string it looks like str = 1.68 and a meta socket is 93.35 + value of 21 crit rating.

As a note this meta is so absurdly powerful that any helmet without a meta socket is pretty nearly an automatic writeoff. Unless you are upgrading 2 tiers or more of content you can't consider any hat without a meta.

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In PvP, you attack the same level people (except in AV), so you only need 5% hit. However in a raid, you need 9% hit because boss kills are what matters.

Since you are interested in Naxx, I would recommend making two lists. One for SoB and another for PvP starting from the SoC list (adding a weight for stamina and resilience (resilience's value should be higher) while decreasing hit rating's value from the SoC list). This PvP list would help you decide what to use until you start filling out your slots with PvP gear.

Or you could just use the SoB list to make things easier.

I am curious, how much do you suggest I allocate for hit, resilience, and stamina? I'm hoping to finalize my PVP scale tonight.

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I also lowered expertise's value for Prot, since it only affects three attacks (auto, Seals and HotR).

Not shield of righteousness? I thought I saw a combat log in one of these threads showing Shield being parried.

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How to value hit after cap though? It has pretty high weight so sticking to unchanged values could screw you over (yeah, need to apply common sense) but still, any ideas how to reflect hit cap? You can't set the value to 0, as that would gimp it as "potentional future" stat to create some "hit bank" for replacement of hit heavy items, but while hit capped crit should be above it, shouldn't it? Could anyone do maths for this please?

And another request, please - I am unable to find anywhere how much is 5 expertise at lvl 80 converted into rating, as I am dwarf and thus having 5 exp racial with maces makes them really favoured weapon. Could anyone tell me the ratio, please? I can do the maths myself, just need the base numbers. Thanks.

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And another request, please - I am unable to find anywhere how much is 5 expertise at lvl 80 converted into rating, as I am dwarf and thus having 5 exp racial with maces makes them really favoured weapon. Could anyone tell me the ratio, please? I can do the maths myself, just need the base numbers. Thanks.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t37032-faq_working_theories_raiding_level_80_a/

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That is a good question. I value the 3% crit damage component at 93.35 dps. That is simply what my sheet showed as the dps difference when I removed it. That value will change with your dps total, but if you are using the values my spreadsheet spits out currently it should be a great place to start.

So if str = 168.09, then 3% crit meta is worth 9335 + the value of 21 crit rating.

I personally divided all the values by 100 for pawn purposes to make my results smaller, so in my personal pawn string it looks like str = 1.68 and a meta socket is 93.35 + value of 21 crit rating.

As a note this meta is so absurdly powerful that any helmet without a meta socket is pretty nearly an automatic writeoff. Unless you are upgrading 2 tiers or more of content you can't consider any hat without a meta.

Yeah when I got home yesterday I plugged the meta into your spreadsheet and with the 22 crit rating it came out at around 120 dps or so with my gear. I'm almost regretting replacing my CVoS with the [item]Fire-Scorched Greathelm[/item]. Oh well, I'm sure I'll get my tier helm soon enough.

Regarding the hit cap value, I just have 2 scales on my tooltips, one with a hit value of zero for over the hit cap.

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The Prot strings listed in the earlier posts have an error as Defense should be listed as DefenseRating.

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I think it would've been useful if pawn would also list the value of the "raw" item - that is without enchants, and using the sockets the way pawn would use them instead of what's actually in them. That would make it easier to compare my current items to drops or items other people are using.

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For prot ratings, I have found it helpful to use multiple scales which tell me different things about the gear I am examining. I personally have five different scales right now: Avoidance, Full Avoidance, Block Value, Crit Reduction, and Health. I use the scales to help me determine which gearset a piece of gear should go into (threat, avoidance, high health, etc), as well as (particularly right now while leveling) to see what I need to have in order to become crit-immune again (by comparing the "crit reduction" on the new piece to the one I am replacing).

I have the scales set up such that the number I see actually corresponds directly to a real quantity. IE, the pawn value I see on the "Full Avoidance" scale will be numerically the % dodge, miss, and parry that the piece provides me. The "Health" value is the number of hitpoints the piece should give me. Etc. I find that this system helps me distill the key quantities out of the gear that I pick up while still maintaining enough granularity for me to be able to make intelligent decisions about gearing.

For those interested, here are the scales I use and how I derived them. For rating conversions, I'm using the data posted in the prot field manual thread. Any stats not listed in any given scale can be assumed to be given zero weight.

Avoidance

This scale will yield a total % avoidance (miss+dodge+parry+block) given the amount of each stat

Note: this scale counts blocks. See the next scale for the full avoidance weights.

Agility: 52.08 agility = 1% dodge; 1 Agility = 0.0192 points

Dodge Rating: 39.35 dodge rating = 1% dodge; 1 Dodge Rating = 0.0254 points

Parry Rating: 49.18 parry rating = 1% parry; 1 Parry Rating = 0.0203 points

Block Rating: 16.29 block rating = 1% block; 1 Block Rating = 0.0614 points

Defense Rating: 25 defense (25*4.92 = 123 defense rating) = 1% each miss, dodge, parry, block; 1 Defense Rating = 0.0325 points

Full Avoidance

This scale will yield a total % full avoidance (miss+dodge+parry) given the amount of each stat

Agility: 52.08 agility = 1% dodge; 1 Agility = 0.0192 points

Dodge Rating: 39.35 dodge rating = 1% dodge; 1 Dodge Rating = 0.0254 points

Parry Rating: 49.18 parry rating = 1% parry; 1 Parry Rating = 0.0203 points

Defense Rating: 25 defense (25*4.92 = 123 defense rating) = 1% each miss, dodge, parry; 1 Defense Rating = 0.0244 points

Block Value

This scale will yield the total amount of block value present

Note: Assumes 5/5 Divine Strength and 3/3 Redoubt

Block Value: 1 block value = (1)*(1.3) block value; 1 Block Value = 1.3 points

Strength: 1 strength = (0.5)*(1.15)*(1.3) block value; 1 Strength = 0.7475 points

Crit Reduction

This scale will yield a total % reduction in the number of incoming critical strikes given the amount of each stat

Defense Rating: 25 defense (25*4.92 = 123 defense rating) = 1% crit reduction; 1 Defense Rating = 0.0081 points

Resilience Rating: 81.97 resilience rating = 1% crit reduction; 1 Resilience Rating = 0.0122 points

Health

This scale will yield the total amount of hit points that the piece will provide

Note: Assumes 2/2 Sacred Duty and 3/3 Combat Expertise

Stamina: 1 stamina = (10)*(1.06)*(1.06) = 11.236 health; 1 stamina = 11.236 points

Health: 1 health = 1 health; 1 Health = 1 points

For sockets, I make the assumption that I will put a standard gem in each socket. At the moment, while leveling, I don't care to invest in blue gems; therefore I weight the sockets in each scale as if they contained my green gems of choice: [item]Solid Chalcedony[/item] (blue socket), [item]Enduring Dark Jade[/item] (yellow socket), or [item]Sovereign Shadow Crystal[/item] (red socket). I just multiply the appropriate stats on those gems by the weightings above, sum it, and use that as my socket weighting.

Unfortunately, this can cause problems. When viewing an unsocketed item, Pawn now gives you the option to either match socket colors properly or to "smart gem" the sockets such that you obtain the most points (on that particular scale) by treating sockets as the highest value color and taking into account the value of socket bonuses. The problem with this second method is that it causes conflicts between scales. Pawn will assume a full set of "red" socketed gems for the Block Value scale, as the red socket is the only socket that has any rating on that scale. Same for "yellow" socketed gems on the avoidance scales. Obviously, since both can't occur at the same time, it gives numbers for the values of each scale that are skewed upwards too much.

The way to avoid this issue is to tell pawn to always socket by socket color (to match socket bonuses). (This is a global option for each scale that has an option box which appears when you click on a socket color to set its weight.) That way, I can always assume a given socket has the gems I set above and Pawn will give me accurate weights.

EDIT: When using the scales above, make sure you set Pawn to round to 2 or 3 decimal places of precision when calculating weights. Otherwise, you end up with items rounded to a whole percent of avoidance/etc, which isn't all that useful. (Ideally, you would have a precision of 1 for the BV and Health scales, and 0.01 for the avoidance and crit reduction scales. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to set precision per each scale, only a global option.)

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That is a good question. I value the 3% crit damage component at 93.35 dps. That is simply what my sheet showed as the dps difference when I removed it. That value will change with your dps total, but if you are using the values my spreadsheet spits out currently it should be a great place to start.

So if str = 168.09, then 3% crit meta is worth 9335 + the value of 21 crit rating.

I personally divided all the values by 100 for pawn purposes to make my results smaller, so in my personal pawn string it looks like str = 1.68 and a meta socket is 93.35 + value of 21 crit rating.

As a note this meta is so absurdly powerful that any helmet without a meta socket is pretty nearly an automatic writeoff. Unless you are upgrading 2 tiers or more of content you can't consider any hat without a meta.

I was just trying to do a comparison to see what this gem is worth as an equivalency to other stats. I chose strength, since that is our main stat. Correct me if I am wrong, but that would put the 3% crit dmg boost to a strength equivalency of about 293 strength for your current level of gear. Is that really how powerful that dmg boost is? I just used the pawn values to multiply the dps increase by the dps value then divide that by the strength value; I'm not good at math but that works right?

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I was just trying to do a comparison to see what this gem is worth as an equivalency to other stats. I chose strength, since that is our main stat. Correct me if I am wrong, but that would put the 3% crit dmg boost to a strength equivalency of about 293 strength for your current level of gear. Is that really how powerful that dmg boost is? I just used the pawn values to multiply the dps increase by the dps value then divide that by the strength value; I'm not good at math but that works right?

You are confusing ranking (which is an issue with differing static values). He is saying 100 strength = 168 dps, so one 1 str = 1.68 dps. Therefore the 3% crit damage is about equal to 55 Strength.

Yes the meta is good, but not 300 strength good.

I will divide the Ret ratings by 100 to make it easier to understand.

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From the Prot item weights in a Wowhead thread:

Protection Paladin:

( Pawn: v1: "Prot": Strength=39, DefenseRating=100, Stamina=98, DodgeRating=94, ParryRating=88, Agility=81, BlockRating=63, SpellPower=38, ExpertiseRating=20, Intellect=25, BlockValue=25, SpellHitRating=19, Armor=8)

This Prot weight you quoted has some major flaws:

- Although prot threat also benefit from spell power, it scales better with AP now. So normally you are not supposed to see spell power on any of your tanking gear, not even gems and enchant. Having spellpower in the weight only make the score misleading with some non-tanking gear with spellpower.

- Similarly, there is no Intellect on any tanking gear.

- 1 point of parry rating is more avoidance than 1 point of agility BUT with BoK (which is still the 1st / 2nd tankadin buff), 1 point of agility > 1 point of parry slightly.

- It should be Hit rating, not spell hit rating.

- 39 for strength seems too low to me. Even spellpower here is 38. But strength is a bit difficult to calculate since it is both threat and mitigation.

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- 39 for strength seems too low to me. Even spellpower here is 38. But strength is a bit difficult to calculate since it is both threat and mitigation.
It's actually fairly easy to calculate, take half your value of block value, and twice the value of spell power (Since most abilities scale at an equal rate with both spell and attack power but strength provides 2 attack power per point), add them together, and then you have a good value for strength.

As someone pointed out above, I'd recommend going for multiple possible weightings to evaluate pieces in for Protection. You can't compress tanking properly into one complete value, since the goals you can choose to pursue with your gear are typically situational.

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This Prot weight you quoted has some major flaws:

- Similarly, there is no Intellect on any tanking gear.

- It should be Hit rating, not spell hit rating.

I found it from Wowhead, so I didn't give it much thought. I will edit the values.

As was mentioned before, there is no "best" way to do tanking, since situations call for different items that then become better.

The reason why SP and int are in the list is if a non-Prot Pally that wants to tank a non-heroic they can better pick their items.

Spell hit listing there is an error from the Wowhead poster.

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