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frmorrison

Pawn Values for all Specs: Updated to 3.3

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My pawn values in-game have a value for weapon speed. I guess I forgot to list in in the OP. Just add it in yourself (under 2H speed, give it a value of around 6).

According to Redcape's post #107, the weapon speed weight should have the value 335.80.

Also, if you only care about 2H weapons, then you don't have to worry about specifying OH, MH, or 2H weights -- just use the basic weights "Speed" and "Dps".

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Any updates for these values in 3.2? Or is that still a work in progress?

I just updated it with my personal Rawr values.

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Note it may be helpful to have separate weights for avoidance and survival.

Protection Paladin:

( Pawn: v1: "Survival": Strength=0.4, DefenseRating=1, Stamina=1.5, DodgeRating=0.96, ParryRating=0.92, Agility=0.8, BlockRating=0.63, ExpertiseRating=0.2, BlockValue=0.25, HitRating=0.2, Armor=0.08, SpellPower=0.2,)

May I ask what your avoidance weight is? Been looking for updated pawn weights for 3.2 for that.

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May I ask what your avoidance weight is? Been looking for updated pawn weights for 3.2 for that.

I originally got some values from a random Wowhead thread, then tweaked them to account for 3.2 changes (block value is better, agility/dodge is worse, and parry is better).

I guess if you cared more about avoidance, increase defense, parry, dodge, agility, and block value up a bit.

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I don't really see any drastic changes to paladin stat weighting from the patch notes, at least not for Holy or Ret except for the change to the Flash of Light HoT being a Holy only mechanic but I don't see many Ret paladins using this mechanic Pre-3.3.

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Any chance this can be updated for 3.3?

Would extremely appreciate it...

I don't know how useful my stat weights are to others, but I updated the OP with the ones from my Pawn mod.

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My personal Protection Paladin numbers:

( Pawn: v1: "Prot": Strength=0.5, DefenseRating=0.9, Stamina=1.5, DodgeRating=0.9, ParryRating=0.9, Agility=0.9, BlockRating=0.4, ExpertiseRating=1.05, BlockValue=0.5, HitRating=0.6, Armor=0.08)

If you still remember, I explained ages ago it is dangerous/misleading to use one pawn weight for tanking stats. This is fine for DPS and some what ok for healers, but not tanks.

At least separate it to prot: survival and prot: threat. (Though to me, this is still oversimplified.) With your single weighting, you are going to see a lot of retadin gear or even rogue gear having high score.

Besides, you are probably weighting expertise too high. Unlike warrior tanks which valued expertise quite high for threat and slightly for mitigation, expertise is not as important for tankadins as it only helps our autoattack and HotR.

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In 3.3 Shield of Righteousness was changed so that it can be parried and dodged. Expertise is our highest TPS stat until the soft cap.

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If you still remember, I explained ages ago it is dangerous/misleading to use one pawn weight for tanking stats. This is fine for DPS and some what ok for healers, but not tanks.

At least separate it to prot: survival and prot: threat. (Though to me, this is still oversimplified.) With your single weighting, you are going to see a lot of retadin gear or even rogue gear having high score.

Besides, you are probably weighting expertise too high. Unlike warrior tanks which valued expertise quite high for threat and slightly for mitigation, expertise is not as important for tankadins as it only helps our autoattack and HotR.

I agree a stat weight for Prot is not the best, but someone asked for it. It is better to have threat and survival weights, but I personally combine them into one stat.

Ignoring the threat gain of expertise, it is 80% as good as dodge for reducing spike damage (assuming parry haste). Also since SotR, HotR, autoattack, and SoV stacks can all be parry/dodged, since expertise double dips as threat/survival I personally rate it very highly.

Rogue gear hardly ever be favored over real Prot gear (maybe 264 rogue gear over a 200 Prot piece), since armor has a decent stat weight.

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I don't know how useful my stat weights are to others, but I updated the OP with the ones from my Pawn mod.

Very usefull Fr!

My MS is Ret PVE.

Could you tell me if i need to change these stats depending on weaponspeed?

Also, if i'm hit capped atm and/or expertise capped, do i need to change these values to 0 or what's the best way to rly compare a hit/expertise item with an item that doesnt have this?

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Very usefull Fr!

My MS is Ret PVE.

Could you tell me if i need to change these stats depending on weaponspeed?

Also, if i'm hit capped atm and/or expertise capped, do i need to change these values to 0 or what's the best way to rly compare a hit/expertise item with an item that doesnt have this?

You really shouldn't use some other characters pawn values. They aren't that useful at all. What is better for someone else isn't sure to hold true for you.

I suggest you download RAWR and use that instead.

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I always wondered why the gem values were so tightly packed together when it is common knowledge that blue sockets are inferior for a ret paladin. It then dawned on me that perhaps these sockets are more valuable to jewel crafters. That in mind, I crunched the numbers for non-jewel crafters and this is what I got. Red socket is 20 str, Yellow socket is 10 str/10 crit and blue socket is 10 str/15 stamina. The adjusted Retribution values are then:

( Pawn: v1: "Ret PvE": ArmorPenetration=0.86, CritRating=1.15, Dps=6.15, Strength=2.1, Agility=1.14, ExpertiseRating=1.5, HasteRating=0.85, HitRating=2.2, Ap=0.81, MetaSocket=107, RedSocket=42, YellowSocket=32.5, BlueSocket=21)

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Blue Sockets are rated higher because other than the one Nightmare Tear (10 to all) you should have no other blue gems, so generally just put a 20 strength there. The value of a blue less than a red because of a potential lost socket bonus.

Since values of a sockets shifts depending on the color and if the bonus is activated, that is why static values are not too useful. It is better than just guessing if you don't want to fire up Rawr or a spreadsheet.

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Blue Sockets are rated higher because other than the one Nightmare Tear (10 to all) you should have no other blue gems, so generally just put a 20 strength there. The value of a blue less than a red because of a potential lost socket bonus.

Since I am not a jewel crafter, I was not aware that I could use a 20 str (red) gem in a blue socket.

Edit: I researched this. One would have to assume that the Blue gem would be socketted with a red gem (20 str) minus the potential socket bonus. For instance if the socket bonus was 4 crit the blue gem would be worth 42 - 4.6 (5 for round numbers) or 37. Thank you I have a much better understanding now of the Pawn socket values.

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It is unnecessary (and probably detrimental) to use any values for sockets in your Pawn strings. Pawn now looks at your socket colors and socket bonuses and determines for you whether you should match colors or not, and calculates the value of the piece accordingly.

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I agree a stat weight for Prot is not the best, but someone asked for it. It is better to have threat and survival weights, but I personally combine them into one stat.

Ignoring the threat gain of expertise, it is 80% as good as dodge for reducing spike damage (assuming parry haste). Also since SotR, HotR, autoattack, and SoV stacks can all be parry/dodged, since expertise double dips as threat/survival I personally rate it very highly.

Rogue gear hardly ever be favored over real Prot gear (maybe 264 rogue gear over a 200 Prot piece), since armor has a decent stat weight.

Sorry that I was not aware of the Shield of Righteousness change in 3.3. Ok, the expertise rating is fine if you are talking about threat weighting.

I might be a bit exaggerated about rogue gear. Nevertheless, using your weighting, you will see plenty of Str dps gear and some rogue neck/ring on the list.

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Sorry that I was not aware of the Shield of Righteousness change in 3.3. Ok, the expertise rating is fine if you are talking about threat weighting.

I might be a bit exaggerated about rogue gear. Nevertheless, using your weighting, you will see plenty of Str dps gear and some rogue neck/ring on the list.

The ranking seems pretty good. I do see a few agility "rogue" and Plate dps necks there, because agility is like dodge and strength gives a lot of threat and gem slots. Glancing over the lists, it seems expertise is too good and armor isn't rated too low, I will change the weight.

I changed expertise to 0.5 since while it is useful, it isn't that great past the soft cap. Before 26 it is the best threat stat. That is another reason Pawn weights don't do well, when caps are reached.

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I found a post saying you added PvP values, but they have been removed from the OP. Any specific reason?

I had some PvP values originally, but then I stopped playing Arena about a year ago so I cannot give a good opinion. The purpose is for PvE anyway. As gear changes, stat values so the original idea is flawed as least without giving context, such as this is good with 245 gear, this is good with 258 gear, etc. I am not going to update it again. For PvP, lots of resilience perhaps around 900 is a good goal.

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For PvP, lots of resilience perhaps around 900 is a good goal.

Even that there is a good perspective, almost double of what I was aiming for. Thanks.

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