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Norfair

Restoration Itemization

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4t7 is only effective when used on a tank, but I don't see it beating a glyphed regrowth. Nourish isn't Flash of Light, it can't be spammed because of its high mana cost. Cancel-casting is better done with our bigger heals - regrowth and HT.

What? Nourish costs LESS mana than Flash of Light and heals for more.

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What? Nourish costs LESS mana than Flash of Light and heals for more.

What are you on about, Paladin FoL is around 300 mana or so and Nourish is about 600 with talents.

You are thinking of Flash Heal (Priests)?

Ignoring Living Seed I'm also not convinced on the 4T7 making Nourish better than Glyphed RG - however this is assuming RG will always crit and in raiding you have about 65-70% at best of that.

For me (4T7 assuming +35% not +20%*15%)Nourish comes out around 4000 HPS while Glyphed RG which crits nearly all the time is coming out at around 6000 HPS - and Nourish comes out around 8HPM and RG 11HPM.

I wouldn't trust that basic late night math much but until I see some solid figures comparing both I remain unconvinced that Nourish is much cop even with 4T7.

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There are very few reasons to socket sp/spi as pure reds gives more spellpower obviously and sp/int gives more mana. As for meta I'm using sp/speed one since it allows me to enchant 18 spirit on boots. The mana restore meta was pretty good at 70 even though I never used it but with a new spammable 1.5s spell it should proc alot more.

The staffs are very similiar so just take whatever drops first. Or if you really dont like crit or haste wait for the other but since you asked I doubt you have any preference.

The weakest t7 part is the helm since both crit and haste are superior to mp5. So my number one choice is [item]40562[/item] but it will probably be highly sought after by everyone so I think I have to settle with [item]44007[/item] instead and if that fails aswell it will be the legs you mentioned [item]40379[/item].

t7.5 vs boneyard legs

you think the haste is > spirit and crit?

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Guess I could go for [item]39719[/item] instead of the legs but thats taking cloth again. But yeah I value haste over spirit and crit since spirit isn't needed since all mana comes from intellect anyway pretty much thanks to innervate and replenishment. Crit is just so meh for druids. Sure many druids are running around screaming regrowth is sooooo good it crits ALL the time bla bla. I just dont think its good to rely on it critting. Healing is all about worst case scenario and not average like DPS and in the worst case scenario regrowth isn't critting. Reliable healing (haste) beats big numbers (crit).

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I can't figure how you might think crit is superior to mp5. It might be me, but I always value reliability higher than hps procs (crit, or haste trinkets, things like that). I also very rarely stand still and chain cast Regrowth or Nourish with Swiftmends in between to make crit worthwile. But what I do have are mana problems and the ability to dish out more spells without finding myself running out of mana when things go wrong via regen stats is preferable to have 3 spells I won't even spam critting 3 or 4% more.

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It's not the crit on the Hood but the raw spellpower on it, it's 21 higher then everything else.

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Would anyone be able to do the math on how much haste you need to get a 1 second cooldown with the different ranks of Gift of the Earthmother?

The math is just way beyond me. Please help this simpleton out :(

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What are you on about, Paladin FoL is around 300 mana or so and Nourish is about 600 with talents.

You are thinking of Flash Heal (Priests)?

Ignoring Living Seed I'm also not convinced on the 4T7 making Nourish better than Glyphed RG - however this is assuming RG will always crit and in raiding you have about 65-70% at best of that.

For me (4T7 assuming +35% not +20%*15%)Nourish comes out around 4000 HPS while Glyphed RG which crits nearly all the time is coming out at around 6000 HPS - and Nourish comes out around 8HPM and RG 11HPM.

I wouldn't trust that basic late night math much but until I see some solid figures comparing both I remain unconvinced that Nourish is much cop even with 4T7.

Oops, It was late and I mixed up the spell names, of course I meant Flash Heal, yes :P

Regrowth spam would also mean that you lose the healing you would normally get from the regrowth hot ticks due to refreshing the hot all the time.

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Is there a tool to model gear besides Lootrank and Rawr? I'm using lootrank extensively and like it plenty, but I'd REALLY like a tool where I can add an array of gear choices to all slots and see what my totals are. Rawr does this, but it's showing incorrect values for haste for me (16.88% form my armory when I've only got 8) and isn't showing ratings at all. Also it errors constantly and I don't like how I have to reconfigure every single socketed item with realistic gems.

I seem to remember even after CTprofiles went down, something else was around during BT that I was using.

Any suggestions?

chardev.org v4 - A World of Warcraft character planner - should work for this

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Would anyone be able to do the math on how much haste you need to get a 1 second cooldown with the different ranks of Gift of the Earthmother?

The math is just way beyond me. Please help this simpleton out :(

http://elitistjerks.com/990017-post110.html

Just replace the 1.3 with however much your GotEM reduces the GCD, for example with 3/5 it would be 1.18 instead. Also thanks for pointing this out, means I can go drop some points from GotEM myself :)

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What do people think about T7 set bonuses? I'm not sure they are really worth going for... especially seeing as how about half of our raid group is on the same token. (We have tons of druids)

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This is purely theoretical, as I don't have the items yet, but I'm okay with them. 5% off Rejuv isn't great, but considering how much more of a role Rejuv plays in my healing than it used to, it's not bad, and will actually have an effect in almost every fight. The bonus healing to Nourish is very situational, and once I have 4T7, I'll most likely at least carry around the pieces to toss on during an extreme tank damage fight like Patchwerk, where rolling Lifebloom and Rejuv will add another 10% to Nourish for getting them topped off. I certainly don't plan to make it a point to keep either bonus to the exclusion of higher general throughput gear, though 2T7 is worth some regen in itself. Specifically:

Rejuv is 18% of base mana, or 3796 * 0.18 = 683 before talents/gear.

Normal: 683.28 * 0.91 (Moonglow) * 0.80 (ToL) = 497 mana

With 2T7: 683.28 * 0.91 (Moonglow) * 0.80 (ToL) * 0.95 (2T7) = 473 mana

Difference: 24 mana

(These numbers seem wrong to me, but I'm at work and can't double check my actual mana cost. Am I missing a talent?)

Equivalent mp5 with rejuv rolled on 1 and 5 targets:

One person: 24 / 3 = 8 mp5

Five people: 24 * 5 / 3 = 40 mp5

In reality, it's worth somewhere between those values depending on the fight, but at least it's a general idea of how much it's worth compared to intellect and spirit, if you're looking at replacing a piece with a similar ilvl but different stat allocation.

[edit] Apparently I can't divide simple numbers in my head. 24 / 3 is not, in fact, 6. :(

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What do people think about T7 set bonuses? I'm not sure they are really worth going for... especially seeing as how about half of our raid group is on the same token. (We have tons of druids)

At least to me it looks like getting the off-set pieces is way better due to the fact that their raw stats will overcome the lack of set bonuses, but I'll probably get 2pc because I cast Rejuv a lot; I'll stick to the haste set pieces only.

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So wait someone help me break down the healing stats now - are we stacking mp5 instead of spirit? I mean, spirit still adds mp5 AND spellpower, plus affects the tree of life aura. I saw another tree in my guild with a bunch of int and mp5 gems. Is this how I am supposed to gem now? I am so confused!

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I've just started to gear up for raiding, with mostly heroic blues and some epic/badge gear. At the moment I'm sitting at about 1000 spirit and 1800 SP in treeform, which works well for me. However in a raid situation it's getting more important to roll spells on multiple people and similar, so I will eventually have to gear more for haste. From what I've seen in naxx loot tables, gear with high spirit is quite rare, and we're getting mediocre spirit + haste instead.

The question is, what kind if spirit is needed to maintain to have a viable manaregen in raids? Will gearing for haste make me have to drop a couple of 100 spi, or should you compensate with spirit gems / pots / food? What's a reasonable amount of spirit or manaregen when raiding?

It would be interesting to know what 25man naxx raiding druid are aiming for in terms of spirit, sp and haste.

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Don't ignore Int - its actually a useful stat to have now especially when starting up as it boosts your mana pool significantly from the early level gear you had.

You also need to factor in Replenishment (not the talent) which also heavily boosts Int in raiding.

Get enough Spirit to fill your mana pool from 0-100% on an Innervate.

Get enough Haste to get your GCD limit with Gift of the Earthmother, which is about 10%~ with a Shaman, 15%~ without.

Throw the rest in Spell power.

After that you will end up with slightly better stats, more Spell power and then either excess Crit, Haste or MP5 as a side product of the other upgrades.

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You really don't have to gear specifically for haste unless you want to stack it for direct heals. After 1 week of 25man clears and 2weeks of 10man clears i'm currently sitting on ~340 haste without even trying to stack it. Most pieces have either crit or haste, with a few offering mp5 as an option. The good thing with current trinkets is that there are very strong spirit trinket options that you can use if/when needed.

As for stat goals, for current 25 content i feel that i already have enough regen (~1000int, 1500spi; ~550mp5 while casting and around 1500 while not casting) so i will mainly be focusing on spell power now. As mentioned i don't think haste needs stacking as such, around half of your items will have it anyway.

This is purely theoretical, as I don't have the items yet, but I'm okay with them. 5% off Rejuv isn't great, but considering how much more of a role Rejuv plays in my healing than it used to, it's not bad, and will actually have an effect in almost every fight. The bonus healing to Nourish is very situational, and once I have 4T7, I'll most likely at least carry around the pieces to toss on during an extreme tank damage fight like Patchwerk, where rolling Lifebloom and Rejuv will add another 10% to Nourish for getting them topped off.

This got me thinking, on a fight like Patchwerk, i personally found it quite efficient to roll all 3 hots on all the tanks. I didn't get much time over to use Nourish, and certainly didn't have extra mana at the end of the fight for anything (being grouped with our resto shaman would have solved this problem though, i misjudged my need for mana compared to the other healers for this fight).

Would it be more efficient to drop the regrowths and spot heal with nourish as needed while keeping rejuv and blooms up? Full hots seems like the more reliable option to me.

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I think it depends on 10man Patch vs 25man Patch. If there are more healers in the raid who have direct heals, then you're probably right that it's far better to roll full HoTs on all the tanks. I'll be running 2-healer 10-man Naxx, though, and remembering what Patchwerk 1.0 was like a couple years ago makes me think I'll have to at least toss a few Nourishes to the OT. I might be wrong though, we're still waiting on another couple people to hit 80 in our group.

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For us it's enough to run LB, Rejuv, Regrowth on the MT and first Hateful tank with a Rejuv ticking on the second Hateful tank. I usually end up casting a lot of Regrowths for the crit heals on the first Hateful tank. It will vary greatly depending on your other healers, though. We had two paladins chain casting holy lights and a resto shaman nearly chain casting chain heal, so the tanks weren't even spiking down that much.

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Don't ignore Int - its actually a useful stat to have now especially when starting up as it boosts your mana pool significantly from the early level gear you had.

You also need to factor in Replenishment (not the talent) which also heavily boosts Int in raiding.

Yes, it looks like int is almost as valuable as spirit for mana resources on the OP's postulated 8 minute fight if you get replenishment, and actually *more* valuable if you spend zero time OO5SR and use your innervate elsewhere. It's also more valuable on shorter fights. But spirit gives spellpower also, so spirit is probably close to equivalent at worst and a bit better most of the time.

One thing that is clear is that Mp5 is quite inefficient compared to spirit or int. item cost is 2.5x, but actual value is less than 2x.

Get enough Spirit to fill your mana pool from 0-100% on an Innervate.

Not sure this is critical unless mana is constraining. If mana is constraining, this may not be enough, and even without marginal innervate value, spirit's spellpower bonus makes it scale about as well as int.

Get enough Haste to get your GCD limit with Gift of the Earthmother, which is about 10%~ with a Shaman, 15%~ without.

This I am sure doesn't matter unless there is a specific rotation you are trying to enable this way. Haste doesn't scale well for druid healers at all. You will probably end up getting that much or close on your gear without trying anyway, and I don't see this as critical at all. With GoTE and the extended lifebloom talent, we just don't have the same problems spreading small heals around that we used to. Note that spellpower increases max healing throughput more than haste per item point for all gear levels currently available, and spellpower *also* increases mana efficiency while haste does not.

I certainly don't turn down haste, but given the choice of gear with haste vs. gear with equivalent item points in spellpower, spi or int, I'm forgoing the haste, no matter how little I have. Haste, like crit, should largely be ignored except where you can get a lot of it (below the cap), while sacrificing little else.

Throw the rest in Spell power.

I say spellpower is the first priority, not the third. Sacrifice spellpower only when you can get sufficient mana regen in its place, and you would otherwise run out of mana.

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I personally haven’t had any issues with mana regeneration at all in 10/25 man raids, but I'd attribute it to my choice in glyphs really (Innervate/Lifebloom/Rejuvenation). About 80% of the time I find myself innervating the shadow priests or anyone who calls for it, and the glyph allows me to regen mana while I give it to others, The Lifebloom glyph as well allows for less casting of the spell I use most.

I'm working off old BC mana potions which I pop regularly. This too mitigates my mana usage.

My gemming/enchanting has been tuned to SP, because just about all of the resto gear found covers the haste requirement needed to hit cap (assuming you have full Naxx 10/25 and badges gear) Because if this, I've found rolling full hots, including Wild Growth, is incredibly easy between three tanks at a time without going OOM. The only fights that have challenged this are Patchwerk and Saph 3 drakes, but even in these cases the time needed to roll full hots on tanks don't exceed 5 minutes.

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Thanks to Uliko for posting the formula, I based these simple math calculations off of it.

http://elitistjerks.com/990017-post110.html

Haste ratings were derived from the information provided by Whitetooth at: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-combat_ratings_level_80_a/

Here is how much haste you need to reach a 1 second GCD on spells affected by different ranks of Gift of the Earthmother

Wrath of Air and Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura

0/5 GotE = ~38.7% Haste = ~1269 Haste Rating

1/5 GotE = ~30.8% Haste = ~1010 Haste Rating

2/5 GotE = ~23.8% Haste = ~781 Haste Rating

3/5 GotE = ~17.5% Haste = ~574 Haste Rating

4/5 GotE = ~11.9% Haste = ~391 Haste Rating

5/5 GotE = ~6.7% Haste = ~220 Haste Rating

Wrath of Air only

0/5 GotE = ~42.9% Haste = ~1407 Haste Rating

1/5 GotE = ~34.7% Haste = ~1138 Haste Rating

2/5 GotE = ~27.5% Haste = ~902 Haste Rating

3/5 GotE = ~21.1% Haste = ~692 Haste Rating

4/5 GotE = ~15.2% Haste = ~499 Haste Rating

5/5 GotE = ~9.9% Haste = ~325 Haste Rating

Improved Moonkin Aura/Swift Retribution Aura only

0/5 GotE = ~45.63% Haste = ~1497 Haste Rating

1/5 GotE = ~37.4% Haste = ~1227 Haste Rating

2/5 GotE = ~30.03% Haste = ~985 Haste Rating

3/5 GotE = ~23.42% Haste = ~768 Haste Rating

4/5 GotE = ~17.44% Haste = ~572 Haste Rating

5/5 GotE = ~12.02% Haste = ~395 Haste Rating

I tried not to round down but if I did it was at the ten thousandth level and in most cases I just rounded up regardless of the decimal, especially with the haste rating.

It's funny how much time I just spent on this, good thing I opted out of the staff meeting going on right now!

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I do not understand the calculation and the formula to find the numbres in the first post.

* New Casting Time = (Base Casting Time)/(1 + (% Spell Haste / 100))

Note that "base casting time" is after talents. (Wow Wiki Spell Haste)

Without talent :

1 = 1,5 / (1 / ( x / 100))

x = 50% spell haste

* GotEM 5/5 : Reduces the base global cooldown of your Rejuvenation, Lifebloom and Wild Growth spells by 20%

So with the talent GotEM, the new GCD is 1,5*0,8 = 1,2s.

To reduce bye 0,2s, we need :

1 = 1,2 / (1 + (x /100))

x = 20% spell haste

the only information found is: ithecho84's post.

If imp. moonkin/swift retribution works the same way as wrath of air we'd get: \frac{1.5}{h*1.05*1.03}=1.3 where 1.05 is wrath of air, 1.03 is moonkin/ret and h is how much haste needed to reach 1s GCD on GotEM spells since it's -0.3s after haste.

Solving for h gives: h=\frac{1.5}{1.3*1.05*1.03}=1.0668...\approx1.067 or 6.7% haste.

thanks for your reply

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Most casting time reduction talents are before haste (like naturalist, mages imp. fire/frostbolt and starlight wrath), but for some reason GotEM is not, hence the need to only reduce the GCD to 1.3 from 1.5 instead of 1.2 to 1 with haste.

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