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krilz

The Mage Equivalent: The Destruction Warlock

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Wasting a GCD on shadowburn wouldn't be worth it. As Seir said above they really haven't fixed scaling issues with shadowburn.. ever.

I have been using 0/13/58 for a while now and it seems to be very powerful. But i have thought to switch 0/41/30 being that chaosbolt only equates to about 11% of my damage each fight. Maybe even 0/31/40.

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The only reason I went SF spec was because of the malygos fight. It works great with Deathgrip also SF goes well in other fights.

You can go mana feed too, It all depends on what fights you do. I just like the ability to clutch interrupt, stun and deal shadow damage hoping for MC to proc in aoe. I saw all the specs in this and I really do dislike Chaos Bolt, Conflag, backdraft, afflic.

Im looking forward for some input from some Chaos bolters to see if they like this spec

I also really like the 30/41 spec. I would rather not put points in Sac honestly, if its a pet unfriendly fight I would put the pet on phase shift and get MD instead of sac for 10%.

Shadow fury is a really good talent, I keep reaching for that hotkey a lot, while its only really useful in some situations. I would have that instead of Demonic empowerment.

I do fairly well in heroics. I havent done all that much raiding yet, so I have to reserve my judgement for raids.

As for the rotation itself. I just do CoA->immolate->incineratexY refreshing coa when immolate is out too.

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I think Drain Soul will probably outperform it but I think it depends on your crit % mostly. If you can get crits off more often than SB by all means use it since it gets Imp. SB and a lot more damage but Drain Soul ticks will probably have a higher average than your normal SB hits (especially with more warlocks).

Hi, can someone explain to me how drain soul can be the best filler when a mob is < 25% hp? I'm assuming this has something to do with soul siphon, but I'm a little confuse about why its <25% and also where enough extra damage on this spell would come from to make it surpass SB or Incin.

It does 620 dmg over 14.35 seconds...and soul siphon says up to 24% extra dmg for other affliction spells being up. so at maximum its doing...620*1.24=768.8 (base dmg) over 14.35 seconds? That seems like a really long time that you could fill with 600-668 base dmg shadowbolts every <2.5 s. (please excuse my actual numbers because I just picked up WoW again after a break and am lvling back to the cap).

I'm sure I'm missing something that's going to make me seem like a retard lol...but can someone fill me in on where this strategy came from and why it would work?

Thank you!

-Scheod

EDIT: OK, so I just saw that it does 4x its normal dmg (when I get to 80) so..3075 base dmg over <14.5 secs? compaired to roughly 3600 worth of base-dmg non-crit shadowbolts that you can fit in there?

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Hi, can someone explain to me how drain soul can be the best filler when a mob is < 25% hp? I'm assuming this has something to do with soul siphon, but I'm a little confuse about why its <25% and also where enough extra damage on this spell would come from to make it surpass SB or Incin.

It does 620 dmg over 14.35 seconds...and soul siphon says up to 24% extra dmg for other affliction spells being up. so at maximum its doing...620*1.24=768.8 (base dmg) over 14.35 seconds? That seems like a really long time that you could fill with 600-668 base dmg shadowbolts every <2.5 s. (please excuse my actual numbers because I just picked up WoW again after a break and am lvling back to the cap).

I'm sure I'm missing something that's going to make me seem like a retard lol...but can someone fill me in on where this strategy came from and why it would work?

Thank you!

-Scheod

EDIT: OK, so I just saw that it does 4x its normal dmg (when I get to 80) so..3075 base dmg over <14.5 secs? compaired to roughly 3600 worth of base-dmg non-crit shadowbolts that you can fit in there?

Also counting in Death's Embrace (increased damage when target is <35% and with loads of effects this is an easy choice for any Affliction lock as well as a hybrid with Soul Siphon, but if you don't have that (such as Destro/demo-hybrid and just pure spec of those tree) you might as well forget it.

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Does anyone know if Demonic Knowledge is based on the pets base stam + int or it's buffed stam + int. Seems like in the 30/40 +1 might be a good spot for the last point as with it getting fort/kings/ai 4% of it's total stam + int would be a decent amount. While if its base my imp has just over 100 stm and 400 int.

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I was wondering if anyone has come up with a basic stat weight formula for destro (or demo/destro hybrid).

Personally im 0/41/30 but i think it would be safe to assume that any demo/destro or pure destro build would want the same stat weighting.

Assuming hit is capped

I am currently using a weighting that looks like this

Spl Dmg - 1

Crit Rating - .8

Haste - .8

Hit Rating - .65

Stam - .1

Int - .1

Spirit - .2

Was wondering if anyone else has a different wieghting formula that they use, or if there has been any updated spread sheets and stuff like that.

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In my own personal experience, Haste has the biggest factor when it comes to destro specs. Assuming you have decent crit and spellpower. Also take into account that your raid crit goes through the roof. With 19ish character crit as 0/18/58 I'm running 66ish crit on most fights.

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I've tried out many different specs since I have hit 80 (deep afflic, deep destro, 0/41/30) and the spec I seem to have the most success with is deep destro. I was just wondering though, what kind of rotation should I use? I was doing target dummy testing with just my buffs, and it seemed like when I was using CoD and CoE over CoA, I would have higher dps...could be wrong though. I have found my ideal rotation CoD/CoE > Immolate > Corruption > Chaos Bolt > Incinerate spam > Conflag > repeat as needed. Does anyone have any qualms with this? Thanks.

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I go with something like Chaosbolt, CoA(for mc procs) Immolate, Incin fillers until about 1sec left on immolate conflag incinx3. Chaosbolt whenever it's off CD. My only problem atm is that Chaosbolt only equates to about 11% of my damage. So I'm really debating whether it's worth it, i think it will scale a lot better with higher spellpower and such but at the moment i really don't think that it is worth it.

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Yeah I am having a tough time deciding between 0/41/30 and 0/13/56....I like the fg/emb build because my stats are pretty kickass and I can still pull a decent amount of dps, also leaning towards it because my crit is not even close to what it should be as destro (roughly 15%) so I am not sure.

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on the matter of 0/30/41, which by far seems a nice dps spec for destro locks, I would like to know what made you choose Master Demonology and skipping Empowered Imp (at least accordin to the link on the first thread, where the spec linked is this).

I would personally skip MD and go for Emp Imp (which results in a benefit for you if the imp crits,and considering the build is pretty much based on having an imp out) and go for this (this, where you can leave 1 point out (or even 2 if you take out Imp Soul Leech) for:

- Shadowfury if you need to manage AoE Packs

- Mana feed (so imp can go no stop).

Having a glitch with Leulier spreadsheet so can't provide exact values, will dig into it later and report.

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I was wondering if anyone has come up with a basic stat weight formula for destro (or demo/destro hybrid).

Personally im 0/41/30 but i think it would be safe to assume that any demo/destro or pure destro build would want the same stat weighting.

Assuming hit is capped

I am currently using a weighting that looks like this

Spl Dmg - 1

Crit Rating - .8

Haste - .8

Hit Rating - .65

Stam - .1

Int - .1

Spirit - .2

Was wondering if anyone else has a different wieghting formula that they use, or if there has been any updated spread sheets and stuff like that.

Spirit would at the very least be .39, because 39% of spirit is spell damage. It would probably be in the range of .45 because of Spirit affecting Life Taps.

I believe 166.6 intellect is 1% crit, while something like 45 crit rating is 1%. So it looks like at the very least (you have to factor oom time to some extent), crit is around 3 and a half times better than intellect.

Hit still seems most important until you cap, but is obviously less valuable since you it's a viable strategy now to not gear for 17% hit from gear to reach the cap anymore if you have a stable raid composition.

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Spirit would at the very least be .39, because 39% of spirit is spell damage. It would probably be in the range of .45 because of Spirit affecting Life Taps.

I believe 166.6 intellect is 1% crit, while something like 45 crit rating is 1%. So it looks like at the very least (you have to factor oom time to some extent), crit is around 3 and a half times better than intellect.

Hit still seems most important until you cap, but is obviously less valuable since you it's a viable strategy now to not gear for 17% hit from gear to reach the cap anymore if you have a stable raid composition.

Good points. I'm currently using something sort of like this:

spell damage = 1

spell hit = 1.1

spell crit = .7

spell haste = .8

spirit = .5

int = .2

I'm worried that I'm overvaluing crit/haste though, I keep changing those numbers. It's really difficult to break out of the BC mindset and remember the new rating conversions. I'm still gemming/enchanting all spell power though, and I keep hit/non-hit sets in order to mix and match for 11%, 14%, and 17% hit, as well as minimal hit for trash/heroics.

What do you guys value crit/haste at relative to spell power? (That's the real question, to be honest.)

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(first time poster here :))

I have a question regarding hit rating. With the DS/SnF spec, many people said that you needed to be hitcapped before switching from affliction to that build (i switched to it before being hitcapped and was more effective than with my affliction build). Now I'm wondering if the same rule of thumb applies to the destro builds I see in this thread.

To me, it seems like it makes a bit less of a difference now, because the destro tree now has Cataclysm, being the destro equivalent of Suppression (hit-rating wise). On the other hand, a resist or miss with affliction might be less costly because 3 of the 5 DoT's are instant-cast, while with destro you mostly use spells which are not instant-cast.

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What do you guys value crit/haste at relative to spell power? (That's the real question, to be honest.)

I agree, thats what im really most confused on. I know to keep my hit at 263 (given full raid buffs gives me a cap of 17%) and spell power is the best stat. The question becomes, what does everything else become worth in terms of this.

------

Again, let's assume we're keeping hit capped at 263

If spell power = 1

Then what values should we assign to haste and crit.

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I have an update on the crit/haste weighting debate.

Yesterday I ran Simcraft with 10,000 iterations to come up with some scaling factors, and this is what I got for the relative Warlock specs:


Warlock_0_30_41            intellect=0.29  spirit=0.55  spell_power=1.07  hit_rating=1.79  crit_rating=0.46  haste_rating=0.85

Warlock_0_30_41_no_corruption  intellect=0.34  spirit=0.55  spell_power=1.06  hit_rating=1.72  crit_rating=0.48  haste_rating=0.89

Warlock_0_53_18            intellect=0.39  spirit=0.52  spell_power=1.00  hit_rating=1.67  crit_rating=0.55  haste_rating=0.75

Warlock_2_13_56            intellect=0.39  spirit=0.49  spell_power=1.10  hit_rating=2.01  crit_rating=0.58  haste_rating=0.88

Warlock_56_0_15            intellect=0.33  spirit=0.49  spell_power=1.51  hit_rating=1.66  crit_rating=0.61  haste_rating=0.90

(0_30_41 was a spec I added myself, rotation in Simcraft is: actions+=/corruption/curse_of_agony/immolate/incinerate/life_tap.)

(Talents are Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft .)

I'm not sure how accurate that could be though. How can Intellect be .29 and crit be .46? It takes 3.6x as much Intellect to get 1% crit as it does crit rating (166.6 Int vs. 45.9 Crit rating).

Hit rating seems WAY too high. @ 26.23 rating per 1%, that means 1% hit is equivalent to 44 spell power. Seems high to me.

Haste rating is about where I was modeling it myself. 32.79 per 1% gives..... 26 spell power equivalent to 1% haste.

Spirit should be at a minimum of 0.4173 with Demonic Aegis, so ~0.5 isn't much if a stretch considering the Life Tap bonuses.

Personally I think I'll go with something like this in the future:

Int = 0.2

Crit = 0.6

Spell Power = 1.07

Hit = 1.4

Haste = 0.85

Spirit = 0.52

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Those figures look off to me, the fact that it values haste more highly for Affliction than Destruction says that there's something screwy in the formulae.

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Hello, has anyone done the math behind what is better for destro, spell stone, or firestone for 0/41/30 0/40/31 0/20/51 all that jazz.

I have been using spellstone mainly because im such a fan of sporting over 600 haste. Although im having second thoughts thinking of course 1% more dmg to my nukes might be better. I couldn't find anyone talking about it on here so that's why im asking. Thank you guys.

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I'm actually wondering how do you read those numbers.

When looking at crit there is about 70% damage capable of critical effect at around 40% raid buffed crit. Some simple math suggests that in such situation it takes about 1.8-1.9% crit to add 1% DPS.

Haste is a bit tricky because it's simple and linear when the function DPS(Haste) is continuous (rotation isn't changed), but DPS actually goes down when rotation changes (but overall large increases of haste should always be good for DPS)

Anyway the value of Hit out there seems to be simply way off.

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So...still working with a 30/41 build. Currently it's Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I'm wondering if people are running any WWS on EI uptime. I moved the 1 last point from Mana Feed to EI when I noticed for the most part my Imp was good on mana. Im not seeing EI proc much at all. Now, it's only 33% of the Imps crits, but I swear I'm only seeing it a few times a raid. If its gonna be that bad I'm thinking I might be better off putting that last point in Demonic Knowledge (for a pure +40 SP) or DK. Anyone else tryiing 1 point in EI and running any numbers on it?

Also, not sure if others are noticing, but I'm taking the time to throw Corr and COA and I swear MC is almost never not online.

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I have a couple questions for those running 0-31-40 / 0-40-31 / 0-30-41.

- Which rotation are you guys using, coa, immo, incinn spam or are you guys adding corruption into it ?

- For those that have tried all 3 spec's what comments to you have about how the 3 compare

Also if anybody with for the most part wrath gear could link some wws's i would really appreciate it to get an idea of some dps/dmg numbers.

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Having a glitch with Leulier spreadsheet so can't provide exact values, will dig into it later and report.

Leulier's spreadsheet is horribly inaccurate at the moment - values from it have no meaning until it's updated.

Those figures look off to me, the fact that it values haste more highly for Affliction than Destruction says that there's something screwy in the formulae.

That's not a safe assumption to make. Relative to other stats, it actually values haste as being more important for Destruction (spellpower is 1.1 and haste is 0.88 for destro, spellpower is 1.5 and haste is 0.9 for affliction).

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Hi, can someone explain to me how drain soul can be the best filler when a mob is < 25% hp? I'm assuming this has something to do with soul siphon, but I'm a little confuse about why its <25% and also where enough extra damage on this spell would come from to make it surpass SB or Incin.

It does 620 dmg over 14.35 seconds...and soul siphon says up to 24% extra dmg for other affliction spells being up. so at maximum its doing...620*1.24=768.8 (base dmg) over 14.35 seconds? That seems like a really long time that you could fill with 600-668 base dmg shadowbolts every <2.5 s. (please excuse my actual numbers because I just picked up WoW again after a break and am lvling back to the cap).

I'm sure I'm missing something that's going to make me seem like a retard lol...but can someone fill me in on where this strategy came from and why it would work?

Thank you!

-Scheod

EDIT: OK, so I just saw that it does 4x its normal dmg (when I get to 80) so..3075 base dmg over <14.5 secs? compaired to roughly 3600 worth of base-dmg non-crit shadowbolts that you can fit in there?

If you do spec into Soul Siphon, Drain Soul will indeed outdamage Shadow Bolt under 25% - my problem has been to actually *remember* to use DS, heh. My mind is too wired to shadow bolts :) But for me DS was ticking between 5000-6000, even without the deep Affliction talents.

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Hello, first post here. :)

I have a few questions/comments about spec and rotation. I am a pretty big fan of 2/13/56. I've been raiding with this spec since the first week of the xpac. One of my first questions was the use of CoA or Corr as part of the rotation. I use CoA because I remember reading that it ticks every 2 seconds compared to Corr's every 3 seconds. Is this true? If CoA does tick more often then it will be the better of the 2 spells for maximum MC uptime. 2 points in Improved CoA seems obvious here.

As far as glyphs go, I use CoA glyph. It adds another 4 seconds to the duration of CoA. For me, it makes the refreshing of CoA and Immolate more fluent.

I am wondering what the general consensus is on the higher dps spec, 0/30/41 or 2/13/56. I see people posting about how their chaos bolt only does x amount of damage. I dont know how much damage it should be putting out considering the 12 second cd.

I have wws for a night of raiding from a few days ago. Malygos, Sarth with 1 drake up and The Vault. A few comments about my overall damage. In the Malygos fight, our MT died near the end of phase 1 and I was next on threat so I died immediately after. Luckily, our DK OT picked him up but alas only 1 Battle Rez available. :S Also, I died soon after we killed the dragon in OS. So basically I died early on in these fights and only full fight I was in that night was The Vault.

Wow Web Stats

I would love to know which spec is yielding more dps. Any thoughts or concerns please.

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I also really like the 30/41 spec. I would rather not put points in Sac honestly, if its a pet unfriendly fight I would put the pet on phase shift and get MD instead of sac for 10%.

Shadow fury is a really good talent, I keep reaching for that hotkey a lot, while its only really useful in some situations. I would have that instead of Demonic empowerment.

I do fairly well in heroics. I havent done all that much raiding yet, so I have to reserve my judgement for raids.

As for the rotation itself. I just do CoA->immolate->incineratexY refreshing coa when immolate is out too.

I always make sure to have pet attack/follow/stay bound to easy to reach keys. Some fights require lots of movement (Saph and Sarth come to mind) and having those easy to reach is a godsend for your imps survivability. I run 0/30/41 as well. I have 1/3 DE, but I haven't done enough internal testing watching for the proc.

I have a couple questions for those running 0-31-40 / 0-40-31 / 0-30-41.

- Which rotation are you guys using, coa, immo, incinn spam or are you guys adding corruption into it ?

- For those that have tried all 3 spec's what comments to you have about how the 3 compare

Also if anybody with for the most part wrath gear could link some wws's i would really appreciate it to get an idea of some dps/dmg numbers.

I run into the encounter spamming pet attack and CoA. As soon as I get into position (close to boomkin!) I lay down immolate and start spamming incin. I am careful never, EVER to clip immolate because its a complete waste due to other warlocks in the raid applying it. Thus, if I see immolate with 1.3-1.4s left after my last incin I may cast another incin to lessen the chance of a clip. I corruption only in fights where I find myself moving and nearly at full mana. This may change because I acquired the Egg of Immortal Essence and I try to mentally keep track of its 45s internal cooldown. It basically procs on life tap if you have fel armor up. I have sort of geared up (Mostly 10 man, some badge gear, some 25 man) and I am finding more dps from 0/30/41 than 0/41/30. I don't have any WWS parses at the moment, I'll see if I can't get one from PW next week.

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