Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

constantius

Raids & Healing in 3.0 (as a priest)

462 posts in this topic

For Sapphiron 10: Use the much maligned Divine Hymn when you are bunched up behind the ice block. The hot it generates is pretty good. (Take it off the long CD and we're well on our way to making this of more use.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any tips for healing Sapphiron in a 10 man Naxxramas?

The group I've been going with understands the fight mechanics quite well but when trying to keep up the raid from the frost aura damage, there comes a point where I find myself running out of mana fairly quickly. I've also been trying to maximize using my Shadowfiend, Hymm of Hope (for what its worth), and cheating the OO5SR with Inner focus.

In terms of gear I know where are many upgrades I can get but drops have been very unlucky for me and I am wearing the best I can until I get upgrades.

On our first Naxx10 Sapphiron kill we had three healers, one healer on each side (per group) and one dedicated healer for MT.

Prayer of Mending was a must and primary spell for me. I threw down the Lightwell and used Prayer of Healing when the group took over 6k in damage, but also the procs from Surge of Light (via Prayer of Mending) really helped. I also kept an eye on the MT and threw a heal when I can. Lightwell is very helpful as long as your group uses it or you can put it next to your MT so he can keep an extra HoT on himself.

During Iceblock I continued to use Prayer of Mending and if needed a Prayer of Healing. I didn't use Circle of Healing for this fight. If I see my group low on mana I'll use Hymn during Iceblock. Our Druids use Tranquility if both blocks are close together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow that's really impressive that you managed to pull the healing off when you were on the Sarth tank. How did you manage to keep the DPS classes alive?

Edit: I'm stupid, you clearly stated that the elemental shaman kept them alive. Well done :)

Yep and we also had him heal inside the portal. The twilight torment debuff wasn't such a big problem really since we killed Vesperon second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
For 10 man Sapphiron we made a rule for our group. If you don't have 2 pieces of FR gear, you can't roll on loot from him or KT. It's a much easier fight when everyone (minus MT & healers) has 300+ FR. Myself and the group leader provide the frozen orbs and the members have to provide the rest of the mats. Works out pretty well.

As everyone else mentioned, keep PoM on CD as it will easily be 50% of your healing done for the fight. Casting it on yourself works out pretty well. Also, 2pc T7 is actually useful here. I try to save CoH for ice tombs when people are grouped up or when the storm hits people.

Quick question, how much damage is mitigated when at 300+ FR ? Does it make you take no tick damage or how much damage do you take? This seems like something I am interested in trying. Wowwiki says 415 is cap for a level 83 boss (e.g Sapphiron) so depending on how much is mitigated I might try this for my guild.

I appreciate everyone's input, your comments have all really helped. I realized that people learning the fight and taking a lot of other damage which caused the healing part of this fight to be very stressful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quick question, how much damage is mitigated when at 300+ FR ? Does it make you take no tick damage or how much damage do you take? This seems like something I am interested in trying. Wowwiki says 415 is cap for a level 83 boss (e.g Sapphiron) so depending on how much is mitigated I might try this for my guild.
The resistance cap (415, which is all 3 armor pieces and an aura/totem) is at 75% average mitigation; I believe it's roughly linear scaling from there down to zero. Sapphiron is a sufficiently long fight for a guild learning it that you probably need the mana help, to say nothing of people inevitably not noticing blizzards or taking splash damage for ice blocks or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For 10-man Sapphiron, I find putting out a Lightwell and parking next to it works fine. I just click on it whenever I feel I need healing. It means I never have to start a PoM on myself but can use it on the dps/healer that needs most healing. I never put PoM on MT on Sapph since it sometimes refuses to bounce when people run out of range.

For 10-man, you can use Divine Hymn and a well timed Prayer of Healing after the ice blocks to push up hp fast and reliably. In the end Sapphiron is not all that healing intensive once people stop standing in blizzard and getting tail swiped. There is a lot to heal of course but the damage is even and low each tick which means you don't to stress heal but can use your tools in the most efficienct way. PoM used correctly will do a very big portion of the raidhealing for very low mana cost, making the rest quite easy.

I am always surprised in how much raw healing I get done in relation to how little mana I used. That comes from always being able to plan healing two steps ahead of time, if it makes any sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Sapphiron my healing strategy is very similar to those that have been posted. A major difference I would say is that I PW:S dpsers that tend to stand in blizzards for a bit too long. I'm also running the PW:S glyph so it helps out with this. It can help out some to use PW:S if its just one person or two but really people can't really stand in blizzards. For the most part I just bounce PoM, Flash Heal, CoH behind blocks, and I toss a binding heal on someone if I get too low and PoM is on cooldown.

Generally do not have mana problems during this fight because PoM is so awesome for this kind of damage. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 man malygos: We seem to get phase 1 fine but run out of steam during phase 2. We had a warrior MT and druid OT with 1 DK bringing mobs to sparks every other time(cooldown limiting?). We had 1 holy priest and resto druid on MT/OT and myself(holy) on raid. Its hard to tell if we just arent getting into the sparks fast enough or if we need better gear/mana regen for healers. May spec into spirit buff in disc for this fight if raid healing...Any suggestions? If i recall we only had one replenishment class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll start it off with a general Sarth+3 'discussion' (10-man). I was working on it this past week with a suboptimal group, and was healing the drake+add tank. The spike damage from dual shadow breaths + dual melee swings (2 drakes up) was absolutely brutal. Anyone have any suggestions for predicting that damage, or mitigating it? As most of you know, I raid as holy; GS-spec atm. We were running as HPaladin/HPriest for our 2 healers; drake tank was a warrior.

You might try swapping yourself onto the Sartharion tank (feral I presume?). We two-healed it with myself and a Paladin and our initial healing strategy sounds similar to yours; the Paladin had beacon on the drake tank and focused his attention on the Sartharion tank, while I focused on the drake tank, the adds tank, and Torment raid healing (also, do you have a separate tank for adds or is the Warrior grabbing those as well?). We had some issues with the drake tank dying, and realized that it usually happened when the Sarth tank and drake tank were out of beacon range, leaving me stuck trying to power through the spikes you describe by myself.

We did two things to fix that. First, the Sarth tank became my priority and the Paladin focused on the drake tank with beacon on the add tank. Damage on the Sarth tank isn't actually that bad, outside of the breaths, so as long as I kept him topped off before breaths and made him survive the next melee swing after, the Paladin could help me refill him at his leisure. We also slowly work our drake tank from the Tenebron landing area over towards the Sarth tank as the fight goes on, so that eventually they're sharing the same gap for waves from the south. Once our raid is all together like that, the Paladin has a lot more flexibility in moving beacon around according to the demands on each tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is the right thread, but I'm curious about the exact ramifications of the CoH nerf in regards to how it effects specific fights. As a resto druid, what fights should I expect healing to get significantly harder?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if this is the right thread, but I'm curious about the exact ramifications of the CoH nerf in regards to how it effects specific fights. As a resto druid, what fights should I expect healing to get significantly harder?

Well Trouble what will really happen is we will cast 'somewhat' in cycles. You will CoH everytime you can, and PoM everytime you can. In between it is really going to be filled with flash heals. I'm currently not spec'd for surge of light, but come the cooldown era, I may have to go back (though I don't like it).

I honestly don't see it effecting you guys as much I mean, your WG heals will get more effectiveness now and won't just be overwritten by CoH. I'd expect to see more complimentary raid healing on fights like Sapph, Sarth-3D, and Malygos for sure. I think it will bring the biggest change to the concept that holy priests are the premiere raid healers and will bring us more in line with the versatile 'can-do-everything' healer.

I for one am happy that they are changing the spell, it needed a fix. However, I think the cooldown was a poor choice and was just the easiest way out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if this is the right thread, but I'm curious about the exact ramifications of the CoH nerf in regards to how it effects specific fights. As a resto druid, what fights should I expect healing to get significantly harder?

Intuitively I would say none. We are currently sniping so many heals with CoH that druids and shamans basically have altered their healing because of them only ending up overhealing anyway. With the nerf I would expect CoH to be used as an instant stabilizer and CH and WG to be used for topping people up. Meanwhile priests will have PoM and instant Flash Heals that can be used on critical targets.

All the cases where some priests say CoH needs to be spammed (vortex, sapph, KT ice blast) should be managable with the tools a raid has, even if all fights are left unchanged. I don't see any current boss fight causing trouble. The trash pull before Gothik may be hard though.

I may be overly optimistic though, but I see a lot of untapped healing potential from shamans and druids currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if this is the right thread, but I'm curious about the exact ramifications of the CoH nerf in regards to how it effects specific fights. As a resto druid, what fights should I expect healing to get significantly harder?

Just to add a few things to the other answers:

The short answer is, it depends on how your priests currently heal. If they rely heavily on CoH to the exclusion of other spells in most circumstances, you will notice more healing for you and other healers to do. If your priests don't use CoH that frequently right now, you will likely not see much difference at all.

The couple occasions I do see it affecting healing (such as melee ice blocks on KT), raid positioning is likely to get at least some of the blame. Being able to keep every melee alive as they chain ice blocks all around KT was almost certainly not intended to be healed through anyway. I expect some dps will have to learn better positional awareness for those fights.

I have to agree that I am glad CoH is being modified, although the cooldown is not a solution I truly appreciate as it feels more like a "governor" than a reason for priests to consider other spells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The short answer is, it depends on how your priests currently heal. If they rely heavily on CoH to the exclusion of other spells in most circumstances, you will notice more healing for you and other healers to do. If your priests don't use CoH that frequently right now, you will likely not see much difference at all.

They do a ton of CoH. /hug Nidaba

I have to agree that I am glad CoH is being modified, although the cooldown is not a solution I truly appreciate as it feels more like a "governor" than a reason for priests to consider other spells.

Agree with this. It seems cheap, but at the same time how are you supposed to make an instant-cast auto-targeting heal less attractive? It had a crappier coefficient and as a priest it was a very disappointing spell for a lot of TBC due to this. This may not be as big an issue now that it auto-targets across groups, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We use CoH mainly because ... well, it's cheap, it's effective, and it's something to do. We can't effectively compete on tank healing (esp. trash, but also bosses) when paladins can spam HL for more healing and less mana cost. So we raid heal, and CoH is the premiere raid healing tool in the game until the nerf hits.

I just wish they'd gone to *anything* but a cooldown-based nerf. Watching a 6 second and 7 second cooldown is going to be exceptionally annoying. With Renew in its current state, it's basically going to be a set cycle: CoH, PoM, Flash, <gcd-ish for whatever you want, including another Flash, or a GHeal, or just standing>, rinse, repeat.

They could have solved the problem by doubling the healing and doubling the mana cost. It'd be a lot less spammable if it cost 2x as much mana, but if it healed for twice as much (or 1.5x, or something 'balanced'), we wouldn't *need* to spam it as much. The biggest issue with the nerf is that they're basically saying "bad priest, you can't use CoH that much ... but no, we're not really giving you a new alternative, or giving you any reason you *should* cast something else, just nerfing it and leaving it at that".

Fix Renew and nerf CoH in the same patch, and then we're talking. Fix Divine Hymn and nerf CoH in the same patch, and then we're talking. Change Divine Providence to something more useful and nerf CoH in the same patch, and then we're talking. <insert your favourite example here>

Basically, it's a hamhanded way to fix a problem that we all admit existed, but disagreed as to the severity of. Yes, priests were topping the meters. So what? Paladins are coming very close, and they just got a huge buff with the "HL splash" radius going up to 20 yards; and they are still infinite-mana-spam-bots. Rather than nerfing priests, they should have just buffed shamans and to a lesser extent, druids. If you want to make CoH less attractive, provide alternatives that do the same (or a better) job, don't nerf the spell and expect things to magically improve. If we end up with a 7-second WG / 6-second CoH, CHeal becomes more useful for consistent damage (again), and we return to the land of Twin Eredars, where stacking resto shamans made the fight trivial. Either they're going to have to design fights around this (i.e. no more heavy raid-stacked RSTS damage ever again), or in 6 months they're going to have to buff druids/priests or nerf shamans ... again. Not very intelligent design, basically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

Agree with this. It seems cheap, but at the same time how are you supposed to make an instant-cast auto-targeting heal less attractive? It had a crappier coefficient and as a priest it was a very disappointing spell for a lot of TBC due to this. This may not be as big an issue now that it auto-targets across groups, however.

Trouble, I think they should have put an 'arcane blast' like debuff on the priest where each subsequent CoH had a certain type of effect:

  1. Higher Mana Cost - First CoH is 100% cost, second is 150 or 200%, third is 200% or 300% or however high you want to scale it.
  2. Less Healing done - First CoH is 100%, second is 75%, third is 50%, fourth is 25%, fifth is 0% (or you could go 100%, 67%, 33%, 0%)

The cooldown was just a poor idea, and I think will only present future problems :(

[edit] Reduce Divine Hymn to a 30 second cooldown (or a minute) and oh yeah, now we're talking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trouble, I think they should have put an 'arcane blast' like debuff on the priest where each subsequent CoH had a certain type of effect:

  1. Higher Mana Cost - First CoH is 100% cost, second is 150 or 200%, third is 200% or 300% or however high you want to scale it.
  2. Less Healing done - First CoH is 100%, second is 75%, third is 50%, fourth is 25%, fifth is 0% (or you could go 100%, 67%, 33%, 0%)

That's actually a really cool idea. I hadn't thought of it, but it makes a lot of sense and adds a good deal of strategy to using CoH. I'm definitely not a fan of a straight cooldown and agree with Nidaba that it's hamfisted. This idea is very elegant in that it limits the spam of CoH while adding tactical decisions to its usage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's actually a really cool idea. I hadn't thought of it, but it makes a lot of sense and adds a good deal of strategy to using CoH. I'm definitely not a fan of a straight cooldown and agree with Nidaba that it's hamfisted. This idea is very elegant in that it limits the spam of CoH while adding tactical decisions to its usage.

There were tons of ideas floating around, but I guess none that really caught the eye. Also, from a programming standpoint I assume they wanted a mechanic that was already in-game that wouldn't require an awful lot of work, thus slapping a cooldown was the easiest. I saw suggestions of putting a weakened soul liked debuff on people who had recently been CoH'd that reduced the healing effectiveness of subsequent CoH's on them by X, 2X etc. percerntages, or perhaps even disallowed them from being targeted by CoH again for 3-6 seconds.

But whatever, it is going to happen we as priests are just going to have to deal. But between two cooldowns (CoH & PoM) we're going to be scrambling to get in 2-3 flash heals and that will be the most we can do as renew is completely worthless in a 25-man setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somehow the double mana and double healing makes all the sense in the world to me. Why bother with a mechanic change? Just change the cost of the spell!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the biggest issue in the long run is how to alleviate the old Shaman stacking issue of old with these nerfs. Somehow Chain Heal has to be balanced out with other viable healing alternatives from other classes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One big problem I have with the introduction of more cooldowns is that healers should *not* be cooldown-based classes. It works for dps classes because they have rotations; you basically hit the boss with your abilities, and if you have a big-damage-long-cooldown-nuke, you can mix it in with your rotation for more damage. Elemental shamans can use Lava Burst on a cooldown. Hunters can use Kill Shot (sub-35%). Rogues have a built-in cooldown system with combo points. Etc, etc..

But when you look at healers, almost all of our cooldown abilities are "oh shit" buttons. Not all, obviously, but most. Paladins get Holy Shock: it's not really something you use in a single-target rotation as much as a secondary heal. Shamans have Riptide. Priests have PW:S / PoM. Druids have Swiftmend.

But to move a primary heal, something you use a *lot*, to a cooldown, is just generally a stupid idea. We don't watch cooldowns and do set rotations. That's not how healing works. It's not dps, and someone forgot that when implementing this change. Pity.

(this thought occurred to me while reading the above ~ 10 posts, hence the continuation of the topic)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, how do you guys handle mana on Malygos? Malygos is currently the one fight where I actually run out of mana. I can usually survive through phase 1 fairly well and enter phase 2 with full mana. But phase 2 is seemingly brutal. As far as I can grasp, healing needs to be done NOW and as soon as possible. Any person getting hit twice in a row seems to be dead, there.

I've cleared the fight multiple times, I just feel I am doing it rather sloppily.

My approach for Phase 1 is to only use CoH after vortex. I find often I won't hit all 6 targets during vortex, so I use PoM exclusively, with Renew and Power Word: Shield for emergencies. Otherwise, I rarely heal. I let my druids top off the raid after Arcane Breaths and I let my Shaman keep the tank up. I will of course throw Flash Heals if someone seems in dire need. But again, my mana is more than fine during Phase 1.

In Phase 2, as a CoH priest, I know its my job to always have mana for breaths. I try to keep a minimum of 6k mana going into every breath.

[e] 25-man. Interestingly enough, I don't remember having mana issues in the 10-man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 man or 25 man?

Disc or Holy spec?

You are right in that any person getting hit twice in a row is dead, and the fight is annoying because the Scions *will* look to doing that sort of thing. (And then people blame healers blah blah blah)

Really, if you have to blow all of your mana during phase 2, go ahead and do it. You don't need any mana for phase 3. There are a couple of tricks, maybe: For Deep Breath, because the damage is so consistent and known, you can send off a PoM. Also Divine Hymn may not be a bad option, especially for the second Breath, since there probably won't be any adds around for the Incapacitate (if that is even an issue).

But other than that, don't be afraid to blow out all your mana in phase 2. Anything you have going into phase 3 is not going to get used anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my groups one of the issues is that people run out of the bubbles too much. You only need to move every other bubble and if you're patient you can spend significantly less time moving and out in the real danger area as a whole group. As far as the nukes go, there's really nothing for it healingwise as far as I can see, it's just a situation where you have to top everyone off as fast as possible. I don't like it either but I don't see any way to de-sloppify it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.