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Torn

DW Tanking Builds 3.3 - updated 12/01/10

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You leave out so many factors and put these comparisons in such a subjective light that it's obvious blood comes out better this way.

You simply can't compare specs that way. And I think it's pretty much a given that frost can easily match up with blood these days.

Added benefit of frost over blood is that your AoE dps doesn't totally suck either. You almost need to be a masochist to tank heroics or raid trash as blood.

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Unless Im doing something majorly wrong, using my Blood gear & gems I gain about 600 DPS going Frost spec. These are the sims I produced.

Blood [51-0-20-GoD]:

[TABLE]Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances||| Uptime|

|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|

HeartStrike| 1570633321| 33.1| 124403| 12625.4| 61523| 49.5| 7111.7| 62880| 50.5| 18020| | | | | | |

MainHand| 1255334477| 26.5| 140527| 11896.2| 47102| 33.5| 6547.3| 58422| 41.6| 13463.6| | | 35003| 24.9| 4581.8| |

DeathStrike| 497011791| 10.5| 35060| 14176| 18564| 52.9| 8232.5| 16496| 47.1| 20864.6| | | | | | |

Necrosis| 243894406| 5.1| 140527| 1735.6| 140527| 100| | | | | | | | | | |

DeathCoil| 183412379| 3.9| 34391| 5333.2| 20687| 59.6| 3750.2| 13704| 39.5| 7722.7| 333| 1| | | | |

BloodPlague| 182416347| 3.8| 119041| 1532.4| 119041| 100| | | | | | | | | | 99.9|

FrostFever| 181241140| 3.8| 119231| 1520.1| 119231| 100| | | | | | | | | | 100|

DRW| 156306038| 3.3| 57886| 2700.2| 41489| 71.6| | 16397| 28.3| | 49| .1| | | | |

BryntrollHeroic| 138786801| 2.9| 33781| 4108.4| 33781| 98.9| 4108.4| | | | 360| 1.1| | | | |

BloodCakedBlade| 138304668| 2.9| 42361| 3264.9| 42361| 100| 3264.9| | | | | | | | | |

Ghoul| 88794385| 1.9| 125232| 709| 108968| 87| 631.1| 16264| 13| 1231.6| | | | | | |

BloodWorms| 62144154| 1.3| 324200| 191.7| 324200| 100| | | | | | | | | | |

Army of the Dead| 36448837| .8| 219491| 166.1| 191065| 87| 166| 28426| 13| 166.1| | | | | | |

PlagueStrike| 6466059| .1| 1207| 5357.1| 630| 52.2| 3242.3| 577| 47.8| 7666.2| | | | | | |

IcyTouch| 3159801| .1| 1213| 2604.9| 757| 61.9| 1870.1| 456| 37.3| 3824.8| 9| .7| | | | |

DPS| 13179(+/- 2004)

Total Damage| 4744.35m | in 100h

Threat Per Second| 7746

Generated in |26s

Template:| Blood 51-00-20-GoD

Priority: |Blood

Presence: |Blood

Sigil: |Virulence

RuneEnchant: |FallenCrusader

Pet Calculation: |True

[/TABLE]

Frost [0-53-18-GoD]:

[TABLE]Damage done|||| hits||| Crits||| Misses|| Glances||| Uptime|

|Total| %| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| %| Avg| #| Avg| #| %| Avg| %|

Obliterate| 991655084| 20.1| 83320| 11901.8| 37883| 45.5| 6475.7| 45437| 54.5| 16425.7| | | | | | |

MainHand| 809035550| 16.4| 194689| 5917| 52457| 22.7| 3039.8| 84273| 36.4| 6246.2| 36722| 15.9| 57959| 25| 2125.5| |

Obliterate(OH)| 612055384| 12.4| 83320| 7345.8| 38121| 45.8| 4009.2| 45199| 54.2| 10159.9| | | | | | |

FrostStrike| 541740344| 11| 69386| 7807.6| 22245| 32.1| 3829.8| 47141| 67.9| 9684.7| | | | | | |

OffHand| 500535180| 10.2| 194715| 3655.9| 52681| 22.8| 1879.7| 84229| 36.4| 3865| 36706| 15.9| 57805| 25| 1314.1| |

FrostStrike(OH)| 334424846| 6.8| 69386| 4819.8| 22327| 32.2| 2363.9| 47059| 67.8| 5985| | | | | | |

Necrosis| 254431639| 5.2| 389404| 653.4| 389404| 100| | | | | | | | | | |

FrostFever| 180927404| 3.7| 118893| 1521.8| 118893| 100| | | | | | | | | | 99.9|

BloodPlague| 173186092| 3.5| 118253| 1464.5| 118253| 100| | | | | | | | | | 99.6|

Ghoul| 108374955| 2.2| 168225| 644.2| 146323| 87| 571.4| 21902| 13| 1130.7| | | | | | |

BloodCakedBlade| 101915620| 2.1| 58505| 1742| 58505| 100| 1742| | | | | | | | | |

HowlingBlast| 96190501| 2| 9459| 10169.2| 4461| 46.8| 6034.3| 4998| 52.4| 13859.8| 82| .9| | | | |

BloodCakedBlade(OH)| 62912735| 1.3| 58422| 1076.9| 58422| 100| 1076.9| | | | | | | | | |

BloodStrike| 62451623| 1.3| 15348| 4069| 9325| 60.8| 2540.4| 6023| 39.2| 6435.8| | | | | | |

BloodStrike(OH)| 38869466| .8| 15348| 2532.5| 9234| 60.2| 1573| 6114| 39.8| 3981.7| | | | | | |

Army of the Dead| 37597844| .8| 274323| 137.1| 238458| 86.9| 135.3| 35865| 13.1| 148.7| | | | | | |

IcyTouch| 7247661| .1| 1611| 4498.9| 691| 42.6| 2682.7| 920| 56.8| 5863| 10| .6| | | | |

PlagueStrike| 4981208| .1| 1607| 3099.7| 871| 54.2| 1902.8| 736| 45.8| 4516.2| | | | | | |

Off Hand RazorIce| 4809763| .1| 364376| 13.2| 364376| 100| 13.2| | | | | | | | | |

PlagueStrike(OH)| 3076158| .1| 1607| 1914.2| 861| 53.6| 1169.5| 746| 46.4| 2773.8| | | | | | |

DPS| 13684(+/- 1915)

Total Damage| 4926.42m | in 100h

Threat Per Second| 10679

Generated in |40s

Template:| Frost 0-53-18-GoD

Priority: |Frost

Presence: |Blood

Sigil: |Awareness

RuneEnchant: | FallenCrusader / |Razorice

Pet Calculation: |True

[/TABLE]

My Character Editor numbers are:

Strength; 2278

Agility; 295

Armor; 15948

Attack Power; 236

Hit Rating; 235

Crit Rating; 1035

Haste Rating; 23

ArP Rating; 1193

Exp Rating; 182

3% Crit Damage; Yes

Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance; Yes

Blood Weapon is [iTEM]50709[/iTEM] - Frost weapons are [iTEM]50412[/iTEM] [iTEM]47526[/iTEM]

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2hander, vs DW tank weapons

First off, if you are DW as blood, you are wrong. /sigh I know it should be obvious but I see it all the time. Thought I'd mention it. Anyway, 2handers have more stamina, vs the gain in avoidance from tank weapons. Stamina = EH which > Avoidance. And if you choose a 2hander with expertise or hit, that's more avoidance you can have on gear.

[to other dps, is wasted. Wasted as much as being past the parry cap in expertise. Utterly pointless.

This is not entirely true, if you have access to the 245 or 258 tanking sword from ToC, or Last Word, there are other potential benefits from DW tanking to be weighed here. The ToC weapons have additional armor on them which results in a significant EH boost for example, and Last Word's proc attributes additional healing in a manner comparable to DS's self-healing for a Blood Tank. It is unfortunate that they did not add more tanking weapons with armor in ICC, as I believe this would shift Frost closer to being equivalent to Blood, there are still potentially useful stats/procs that can be brought to the table by DWing that are not accessible to a 2H tank.

Edit: The following math on WotN is incorrect, for future reference. It does provide at least 5.25% EH, but can provide more depending on the circumstances.

As an additional point, 6s on IBF if popped every two minutes is equivalent to 3% average damage reduction (0.6*6/120), while WotN is equivalent to 5.25% EH (15% * 35%). I do think that WotN is better, but there is some argument to be made for the on-demand nature of IBF's damage reduction. So the argument isn't quite as clear cut as you make it, but I do think that the final conclusion that Blood has the edge on progression content is correct.

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You leave out so many factors and put these comparisons in such a subjective light that it's obvious blood comes out better this way.

You simply can't compare specs that way. And I think it's pretty much a given that frost can easily match up with blood these days.

Added benefit of frost over blood is that your AoE dps doesn't totally suck either. You almost need to be a masochist to tank heroics or raid trash as blood.

How are you supposed to compare them? Earlier in the thread somebody said they "felt" like they took less damage in frost, and the healers had an "easier time" keeping him up. I believe it was referencing a VOA pug too.

This is an endgame, theorycrafting forum. Nothing is "given", and we don't go by whether you "feel" you're easier to heal or take less damage.

What factors did I leave out? Specifics please.

I'll grant your point Ariathe, but if anything it would make dw ideal tank weapons, (especially with armor) more comparable, I doubt it's better, it certainly isn't much better. It would come down to the encounter as Avoidance is more valuable on some then others.

As to IBF that was my #2 point where frost is viable, the extra 11 seconds of on demand CD time. The less time you are tanking, with the more significant damage the more valuable it is.

As to you're 5% EH calculation I believe you are mistaken. Are you calculating it like Ardent Defender? Which is the portion of the damage that would take you below 35%, is reduced. With WOTN it reduces the entire hit by 15%. It's value fluctuates depending on how hard you are being hit, but since you can't die without going past 35%, and Especially in heavy hitting fights where you get hit for 70%+ of you're health, get healed, and again, like I said it's nearly so good as to count as 15% EH.

Whereas if you are getting hit really fast for a lot of smaller hits, it's clearly less useful.

I guess my thought is for most encounters, averaging out 11 seconds worth of dmg reduction for, over 2 minutes, and comparing it to always up mitigation is utterly useless. It's awesome for those 11 seconds, completely useless the rest of the time. So you need to do the comparison on an encounter specific level.

Heroic 25 Putricide is a clear winner for frost, at least for the off tanks as you aren't tanking long, the value of your CD's is increased. Most other encounters are much more iffy for frost but here are some possibilities.

If I'm kiting the ooze on Rotface I go frost for more ranged threat, as survival doesn't matter much as you shouldn't ever get hit. And of course you can't death strike anyway.

The extra 11 seconds of CD on Festergut might be nice on the third inhale, but since he hits so damn hard I'd rather have WOTN always up, and self healing "mitigation". You should be able to get external CD's anyway.

If you are main tanking BQL, frost could be viable as you want to reduce/avoid as much damage as possible, as that will reduce damage to the mirror. If you are the mirror, you want to be blood. This is min/maxing, its not a huge difference, and blood really works as well.

Dreamwalker is add control so Frost is easier in some senses, but you have to time your burst right since you have long peroids with no runes up, as you dump them all in 3 gcd's. (With HB glyph anyways) But they can hit hard in heroic, and obviously the more, smaller attacks you have coming in, the higher the worth of Avoidance and Mitigation.

Deathwhisper is also add control, plus with the -tps debuff, Threat matters more, so I would say it depends on whether your raid is having more trouble with tank deaths, or aggro issues. Frost would win tps wise I would assume with all the IT buffs. But on the heroic version, our tanks are dieing a lot, I think I'd rather be blood.

The other thing I neglected to mention is the more magic damage there is, the better for Blood it is as UA is garbage against magic.

The boat event the extra CD time if you're jumping, and add control is nice for frost, but done right the thing is a joke anyways. We had 1 of our mains not saved so in our alt/pug 25 run we did Heroic Gun ship! And then couldn't down regular festergut, or anything past Saurfang.

Marrowgar, Saurfang, MT on Rotface and Putricide, Princes, BQL mirror (MT can pretty much go either), Sindragosa, and LK, Blood is the clear winner.

When blood is the winner, it's the clear winner, if you can't Dual Spec 2 tank specs, blood will be best for the most encounters, if you play it right. It is more skill dependent as it adds an extra factor to pay attention to in the form of self healing.

On the other hand, unless you're that key dps/tank that switches in any given raid, having both specs be tank specs is really nice. Takes 5 seconds to switch and makes trash easier. In my frost spec I get Morbidity, and glyph DND + HB (plus t10 2pc of course) and have more AOE threat, on undead no less, then a lot of paladins. Plus if you decide frost will be better for something specific of course.

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Ok, I am thinking of trying another build at another attempt to get IIT. Yeah yeah I know get a Shaman. Unfortunately my guild only has a couple and they are not always available, I can count the number of ICC raids with our enhancement shaman on 1 hand. Those are all probably 25 mans, I have 2 10 mans and one is without a Shaman all together.

Anyway what is different about this build is an attempt to get morbidity in there as well. Anyway feel free to comment offer advice and changes. I am not sure if I will be RP starved or not. My Current build is the cookie cutter build in the beginning and I am in no way RP starved. I took from the morbity build and several ITT builds and came up with this. I am sacrificing Killing Machine, which rarely if ever proced for me or I didn't notice it or runes were down what ever. Rime and SoB I also had to give up.

I have some more work to do on the rotation but if you guys can find some major flaws in the build then I am not going to put more work into it. Anyway as always feedback is appreciated.

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Ok, I am thinking of trying another build at another attempt to get IIT. Yeah yeah I know get a Shaman. Unfortunately my guild only has a couple and they are not always available, I can count the number of ICC raids with our enhancement shaman on 1 hand. Those are all probably 25 mans, I have 2 10 mans and one is without a Shaman all together.

Anyway what is different about this build is an attempt to get morbidity in there as well. Anyway feel free to comment offer advice and changes. I am not sure if I will be RP starved or not. My Current build is the cookie cutter build in the beginning and I am in no way RP starved. I took from the morbity build and several ITT builds and came up with this. I am sacrificing Killing Machine, which rarely if ever proced for me or I didn't notice it or runes were down what ever. Rime and SoB I also had to give up.

Where to start.

1. The Unholy Tree: You don't need Epidemic. Whether the diseases last for 15 or 21 seconds, you are going to hitting Icy Touch anyway whenever possible. Double tapping Icy Touch at the beginning of a fight is like getting a misdirect. Further you don't derive a great deal of threat from the extra ticks on Blood Fever. So you free up two points immediately.

2. Death n Decay is an opener for the most part. Holding back three runes for a mid point DnD is not practical nor is it necessary. Even Lich King phase one adds can be controlled with a pest or a howling blast. DnD talented will need the Deathrunes, that your build does not provide for fully. I understand the desire to use the 2 piece tier 10 bonus. But you can achieve much the same untalented, or with only one point.

3. Bladed Armor always looks inviting, The extra attack power feels necessary when you compare your tanking attack power to you dps attack power. I don' think it is absolutely needed. You have the same basic ability in Endless Winter, with 2 points instead of 5.

Instead I would do this. 9/57/5

This build gives you the additional attack power using the strength bonus of Endless Winter. Gives you the final point in Blood of the North to proc death runes for better flexibility, and gives you runic power to take advantage of all rune strike opportunities, and allows for multiple Frost Strike possibilities.

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As of late, I've been told that Blood is a great tank spec.

I just hit 80 on my DK that I'm gearing to tank but am slightly concerned on if I specc'd correctly or not. Was hoping to find some answers here but the majority of advice/questions asked have been about Frost tanking. I have a DK alt on a different realm that I used Frost to tank with and it's great for AoE aggro holding, I just found that my survivability rate is lower even with UA and IBF.

I find RT, VB and MoB to come in handy a lot.

If someone who has Blood tanking experience could take a quick gander at my DK (Samilyn on Lightninghoof) I would be much appreciative. I'll most likely be in DPS gear/spec when someone looks.

I have 2 of the mace that drops in reg FoS as weps (Luck of the Old Sun?), The Black Heart as one tank trinket and reg ToC/reg PoS chest, gloves, legs and belt. I just bought a tanking cloak off the AH. I'm working on a new helm/boots since the ones I have are greens.

Thanks ahead of time for any help.

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1. I believe you mean Epidemic here. And yes largely wasted points for Frost.

2. I like Morbidity because Frost is my dual spec for aoe situations, and glyph of dnd + t10 2pc, plus a HB crit on every pull (Deathchill the first, save a KM proc from the last pack for the next) leads to awesome aoe threat. If you are frost main spec you can ditch it, as you don't need Morbidity for any boss encounter.

Butchery is largely pointless, much better places for the points. SOB diminishes in value per point, but if you are DW fast weapons you can go 3/3. Otherwise I usually do 2.

So take those 2-3 points and, max Toughness. That is Effective health you're giving up. I like Deathchill to open with, but that's optional. And depending how you set up you have 0-2 more points for Rime. I usually have full points in Black Ice because I don't need IIT, but that is at the bottom of my priority's. I haven't seen recent math comparing Black Ice and Bladed Armor at ICC gear levels, but that would be interesting info.

Most of this isn't terribly important, with all the boosts to frost damage and IT, frost certainly got the best of the IT buff, threat is easier for frost then it's ever been. Because of this minor differences in tps like between BA and BI, don't really stress me out, and I feel free to get Morbidity/Deathchill for convenience sake. Or Virulence if you're low on hit. (Frost uses spells a good amount)

Krackle, refer to this post.

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t40739-dw_tanking_builds_3_3_updated_12_01_10_a/p30/#post1604223

Especially:

BLOOD VS FROST.....

(The post has pros & cons)

First off, if you are DW as blood, you are wrong. /sigh I know it should be obvious but I see it all the time. Thought I'd mention it.

And further, encounter specific comparisons farther up this page.

You are right, blood is awesome, but only with a 2 hander. I can not think of any possible reason that would ever justify Dual-Wielding as blood. The loss in dps & tps is incredible, and you don't gain anything of significance. If you want to DW, or you want that little bit extra Avoidance, go Frost.

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Just wanting to poll some opinions here. But since the change to Icy Touch DK threat has been more than ok across the board on single target. If if ever seems im slipping on TPS for whatever reason i can simply exchange 2 deathrunes on 2x icy touch instead of obliterate. At the cost of some dps.

So I'm wondering if anyone has been reconsidering aiming for optimal survivability instead of aiming for good threat.

And with that i mean things like:

- Dual wield tank weapons. I personally am doing that, but that's currently for the reason that I only off tank now and then and keep my dps weapons forged for dps. But there has been little incentive to change, as my TPS is more than fine, and extra stamina + defensive stats over slightly more dps might be worth it as well.

- Survival glyphs. Glyphs like Rune Strike (and maybe obliterate and FS too) are "purely" for threat. Sure they increase your dps as tank, which you might find important. But there are certain survival glyphs that people might consider now that threat is fine. Or certain QOL glyphs (quality of life) like howling blast for easier AoE pickup.

Just wanted to see if anyone reconsidered or switched certain options.

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I have a feeling people aren't checking these forums as often nowadays. Since there hasn't been any changes recently, or new content.

If you pull enough threat that you hold a solid lead without md's and tricks, then of course, start switching for survival, or qualily of life. More threat past that point is like more hit past the cap, its kinda useless. I would keep in mind, I haven't run the math for awhile, but since Icy Touch doesn't scale from weapon damage, there is a point where your regular abilitys will generate more threat, and obviously a lot more dps with a better weapon. My Heart strikes seem to generate at least as much threat with my 264 2 hander as an Icy Touch. (In my blood 2h spec obviously... I wouldn't dw as blood) But just using it to keep the diseases up, or the first ranged hit on a boss pull, or add pickup is still a nice boost.

Be sure to read the last few pages of this thread as well as Suno's for some good tips on tps vs dps vs survival.

We came to the conclusion that the IBF and RT glyph are useless, and of course Unbreakable Armor glyph is useless as even unglyphed it will probably put you over the armor cap.

But I do think we have the freedom now for quality of life glyphs, such as Howling blast and or Death and Decay. And as long as you are frost of course.. duel-wielding faster tank weapons shouldn't be a problem.

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I would keep in mind, I haven't run the math for awhile, but since Icy Touch doesn't scale from weapon damage, there is a point where your regular abilitys will generate more threat, and obviously a lot more dps with a better weapon. My Heart strikes seem to generate at least as much threat with my 264 2 hander as an Icy Touch.

This point is not attainable in this expansion, and likely not in the next.

Assume IT hits for 1000; a fairly conservative figure. IT base threat = 7x damage, for 7000 threat. Frost Presence then applies, for a 2.04 multiplier, leaving a total of 14,280 threat. HS would, of course, need to hit harder than 7000 damage after armor modification to exceed this figure.

Now, let's assume 7000 AP. This is likely to be too high for tank gear, but who knows, I haven't looked at mine buffed. It's ballpark, and would give you a 1076 average IT assuming Imp. IT, which unless someone else is providing Imp. TC you take. Assume also a heroic Ramaladni's, a 294.7 DPS weapon, 3.5 speed, 825-1238 damage. Crit rate, etc are left aside for the moment; we just want hits right now.

HS is 50% weapon damage, modified by Bloody Strikes for +45% damage, make that 69%.

Average weapon damage from the axe is 1031.5, round up to 1032. 69% of this is 712. Instants follow the equation normalized_damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14), where X is a weapon-type-dependent value, in this case 3.3 for a 2her. Substituting in gives us:

normalized_damage = 712 + (3.3 * 7000 /14)

Which we can then proceed to solve for:

normalized_damage = 712 + (1650)

and then of course

normalised damage = 2362.

Thus, the average HS hit with a heroic Ramaladni's at 7000 AP is, pre-armor, 2362 points of damage. Add 20% for a 2-disease strike, and you have 2834. It is safe to say that we have a full stack of Dark Conviction, so adding a further 9% to that gives us 3089 damage, rounded up. With the 2.04 modifier from Frost Presence, we have a total of 6301 threat, assuming a 0-armor target.

So to say it again:

IT threat: 14,280.

HS threat: 6301.

There is simply no comparison.

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On what fights in ICC would the talent's Acclimation in the frost talent tree be useful? It is overlooked by many talent builds including the talent build's including the three posted originally. I am curious as to why it is not taken as a serious survivability talent.

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As a personal opinion, Acclimation is a situational ability at best and for the most part in ICC fights, gives minimal benefit if any at all. Lets pull out a few examples here, both for and against:

Marrowgar: Most of the damage your likely to be taking as a tank is melee/cleaves, with perhaps the odd tick here and there of coldflame should it be tossed in your direction (which I have had happen a few times and it's annoying as hell), and bonestorm on heroic mode hits like a truck. All this damage, bar coldflame, is physical, so acclimation has greatly diminished value for 3 very valuable tallent points.

Saurfang: All the damage is physical meaning acclimation has 0 benefit.

Festergut: Although there is the ticking shadow damage from the blight cloud and the big hit from his exhale, the vast majority of tank damage is physical.

However, there are times when I could see acclimation being useful, mostly on Sindragosa and Deathwhisper. The trouble is where you would take those talent points for acclimation from. There really isn't anything that you can get rid of that doesn't provide more regular benefit, or a higher benefit for the same amount of use. It'd be nice to get it on magic-heavy fights, trouble is there aren't a great many of them and the cost to pick it up outweighs its situational benefits. Thats how I understand it at least, but I could be wrong.

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However, there are times when I could see acclimation being useful, mostly on Sindragosa and Deathwhisper. The trouble is where you would take those talent points for acclimation from. There really isn't anything that you can get rid of that doesn't provide more regular benefit, or a higher benefit for the same amount of use. It'd be nice to get it on magic-heavy fights, trouble is there aren't a great many of them and the cost to pick it up outweighs its situational benefits. Thats how I understand it at least, but I could be wrong.

With Sindragosa you'll already be wearing frost resistance, so with acclimation you'd be recieving only partial benefit. (I wear 2 pieces of FR for heroic mode).

And with Deathwhisper the fight calls for high threat (you'll be giving up dps/threat talents)/the frostbolts should be getting interupted. So that's two reasons against using acclimation.

So yeah, the cons definitely outweigh the marginal benefits.

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Acclimation is pretty much useless on Sindragosa. Breaths are 45 seconds apart (or 40), and the buff lasts 18 seconds. Basically, acclimation will never be active during a frost breath, which is like the only reason you wear frost resist. Okay fine, you'll take minor damage from Frost Aura, but that isn't the source of deaths to a tank anyway.

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Most of the deaths from sindragosa are from melee usually after a breath or in the last phase when healers are losing.

We have 3 abilites we can use for her breaths assuming you have[iTEM]Sindragosa's Flawless Fang[/iTEM].

You should have boss mod timers which will allow you to time your cd's so that it will be back up for the next round of breaths. I like to pre [iTEM]Sindragosa's Flawless Fang[/iTEM] for first breath, Pre IBF second breath, and have ams for third breath. Usually there is only 1 time when IBF is down and you can just call for a external cd. Breaths should never be a problem unless your getting to many stacks of the buffet at the end of the fight.

As a side note, I like to switch to blood usually just for this fight. One of the major reasons is for the self heals. Also remember that there are 2 bosses that can parry haste and one of them is Sindragosa. Make sure you stack some expertise if you are getting gibbd.

Acclimation and Spell deflection are not reliable.

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You can launch your Anti Magic Shell 1s before the first breath and it will be back for the third breath, and then use the trinket for the second one.

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I believe we have reached a point where DW tanking doesn't make sense anymore and we can close/archive this topic.

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I disagree, it will still have its time and place, but you're right about archiving the topic. I'm sure all relevant information will be available in the DK Endgame Tank Thread.

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No need for a separate tanking thread. Keep both 2h and DW tanking discussion to the Cataclysm end-game tanking thread.

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