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Tegid

Resto UI Discussion

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The purpose of this change was not to make it show numbers, it was to get rid of the hot count number the mod displayed by default (this cluttered the display).

To see a number counting down you need to use the corner text plugin. I made this change to my local version since I display the time left on my Rejuv in the bottom left corner and time left on Regrowth in bottom right. I use center text 3? (whichever is lowest) to display the Lifebloom plugin (this one shows time remaining in tenths of a second and colors it according to the stack size). I also have colored dots to show the presence of any Rejuv or Regrowth since I can still swiftmend other druids hots (though I am currently our only consistently raiding tree)

With this setup I can look at anyone in the raid and see the status of my hots on them at a glance.

Funny, this is almost exactly what I use. I tried and rejected the use of cornertext because I felt it cluttered things too much, while it gave me information I didn't need. When it comes to any HoT other than lifebloom there is only a few things I need to know about it: Is it on there at all, is it my own HoT and do I have to refresh it. Color coding corner indicators works just fine for that in my opinion.

Anyway, grid can seem a little daunting in the amount of configurable options and the amount of indicators that could potentially flash up at the same time, but you truly learn to absorb this very easily after a while and it's rare that all indicators light up on even a single person, never mind a raid.

Here's my config for good measure:

kaurigrid.jpg

Apologies for adding to this digression by the way, but having a proper raid interface is surely one of, if not THE most important tool to improve your healing prowess with, especially for a resto druid, so I figured it does fit the thread.

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kaurigrid.jpg

What does this actually do for you? I get the curse, poison and aggro monitors. But it seems a little overboard to have grid track every single HOT you can cast for each person. There is such a thing as information overload and how that impacts not only how you heal, but if you can stay alive. It looks great. Don't get me wrong. But I guess I just don't see it being very practical. Why don't HOT timers work just as well? What useful purpose do a bunch of colored dots on grid serve? Are you using grid plus HOT timers? Etc etc. I'd love to hear how the colored dots help you.

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What does this actually do for you? I get the curse, poison and aggro monitors. But it seems a little overboard to have grid track every single HOT you can cast for each person. There is such a thing as information overload and how that impacts not only how you heal, but if you can stay alive. It looks great. Don't get me wrong. But I guess I just don't see it being very practical. Why don't HOT timers work just as well? What useful purpose do a bunch of colored dots on grid serve? Are you using grid plus HOT timers? Etc etc. I'd love to hear how the colored dots help you.

I use something very similar to above, though I don't use dots for WG, Curse or Poison, and I find it invaluable.

The above setup tells you, for each person in the raid, how many of your hots are up and which are about to need refreshing. On fights like Loatheb or Sartharion+ or Malygos that is information I cannot live without. If there isn't massive raid damage, I won't care about raid HoTs and they won't be there, so my Grid UI won't be overloaded. But when it matters and I need to know that RJ is about to fall off 3 mages before a Vortex, my setup tells me that in the span of half a second and I can get to refreshing heals as my GCD allows.

The thing about Grid is, to the uninitiated user, it does seem like information overload. You get used to this, though, and learn to read it at a glance. I'd say Grid + corner indicators for HoTs has demonstrably improved my reaction time, though I can't give you a magic percent-increase that doesn't involve a lot of hand-waving and smoke from behind curtains.

Edit: I can haz spelling.

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Your post is a little disjointed, so I'll just go with a Q&A format.

But it seems a little overboard to have grid track every single HOT you can cast for each person.

Why is that going overboard? I don't like my HoTs to be fire-and-forget missiles. Besides, how would you know wether you can Swiftmend someone if you can't quickly see if you have any HoTs on them? How would this work with a HoT timer exactly? You see someone is taking hard damage on your raid frames, decide you want to swiftmend, take a look at your HoT timer to find out if theres a HoT on him and then proceed to swiftmend the person? Or do you just spam swiftmend and try something else if it doesnt work? Or do you waste 1,5 sec by first casting Rejuv and then Swiftmending?

Why don't HOT timers work just as well?

HoT timers work just fine, but Grid simply works much better.

Grid shows everything I need to know about the status of the raid in one centralized location. I can see what my HoTs are doing in the same spot where I can see the HP of the mage who just got aggro and might need a quick swiftmend or NSHT soon. I can see which tank just took a hell of a beating and activated his Shield Wall in the same location as where I'm monitoring his Lifebloom stack, so I don't lose track of the significance of either by moving my gaze up and down my screen. If you're talking about information overload, this is exactly the way to avoid it: by making sure your eyes don't have to scurry all around the screen and connect the information that's coming to you via numerous different addons.

What useful purpose do a bunch of colored dots on grid serve?

It's not important for me to know wether Rejuv is at 11 seconds or 6 seconds as long as the indicator tells me when it's almost falling off. If anything, having a huge list of timers for different people, of whom I have to read the names and the hots to put everything in perspective is massively confusing. If things get messy, I can have dozens of HoTs running around the raid and possibly have to decurse or cure poison at the same time as well, how can you possibly manage without a centralized interface? With my grid I can instantly see a persons complete status in regards to what I can do for him in one glance, nothing else to my knowledge, not even the mighty Healbot does that.

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Besides, how would you know wether you can Swiftmend someone if you can't quickly see if you have any HoTs on them?

Center icon works for that, besides your not the only person healing in a raid.

Also, you mention hots as not being fire-and-forget, but lets face it the only people in the raid you want to actually keep your hots at 100% uptime is the tanks. I don't think there is any encounter to my mind that requires you to upkeep 10 rejevenations for the entire fight. Rejuvenation and lifebloom on non tank targets are exactally fire-and-forget unless there is something specific going on.

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I might have used the wrong expression there. What I meant is that I want to know exactly what happens with any HoTs I put out there and they people they are on until they expire. In addition Zakariya made an excellent point about why the information is important on various raid encounters.

I'm not sure what you mean with your first line. What exactly do you mean your center icon to show, and how would you avoid it from obscuring a lifebloom timer without making the whole thing more cluttered? Other than that, the fact that there are others healing doesn't mean I shouldn't use my abilities as well as I can. This becomes even more obvious in a 10-man situation.

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I'd like to give some more feedback and opinion on the use of Grid as your raid frames for healing as a Druid.

In BC, I used X-Perl + Clique for all my raid healing. I used the Shift key and bound all spells to Shift + [mouse key]. With 5 keys to use, I had it all covered (I used Ctrl for buffs). For t4 content this was fine and dandy, but with more progression I ended up with a cramped left hand from all the Shift key usage combined with walking. For WotLK, I wanted something different.

A lot of people recommended Grid, but when I saw screen shots, they were always tiny squares with some colored squares inside. I thought it looked horrible and I didn't want to use it. After browsing through the Share your interface thread, I saw several people with these rectangular boxes that were charcoal by default and showed the class colors underneath when the party member took damage. I realized this was actually Grid.

Now I use Grid + macros and it is so easy to heal a fight. I use LB in one corner and stack Rejuvenation and Regrowth in a second corner and WG in a third. I keep the default center icon setting for Curse and Poison. I changed the aggro warning to use the box around the unit frame so that it matches X-Perl a little better.

I also tried DotTimer, but the problem was I had to look in two different places on the screen to find out who my targets were and I couldn't click on the timer target to use my spells. This resulted in a lot of wasted time and I quickly disabled DotTimer and eventually uninstalled it.

For me, the point of a UI is to keep your attention focused on the information you need. Using multiple mods as a healer is unintuitive in my opinion. With about 5 minutes of configuration, Grid can provide you with all the information you need to heal effectively in a fashion that is pleasing to your eye as well. Basically, I can quickly see how soon the HoTs are expiring and make a very quick decision to refresh or let them fall off. As mentioned above, this is very useful for fights like Saph and KT.

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I apologize if this has been linked to previously, but in TBC I originally used this Grid setup tutorial from Phaelia at Resto4life and highly recommend that people new to Grid go through this:

Resto4Life» Blog Archive » Grid: Thinking within the Box(es)

I can honestly say that I have never considered using another mod after getting Grid set up properly. It is amazing how much information it can pack into a relatively small amount of screen real estate.

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Very true, its a valid tactic, but I don't think its required, its very effective on that fight and that is one fight out of the current end game. I don't think one encounter validates hots as not being fire-and-forget. In most of the current encounters if you throw someone a rejuvenation the chances you need to refresh that rejuvenation on that person is slim to say the least.

How does having the dots change colors cause any information overload? They stay in the same place and serve the same purpose (does this target have this HoT?). The only addition is that you can tell if the HoT is about to expire without any additional clutter. If your argument is that it's a bad idea because you can live without it, I'm not sure you'll really get anywhere. You can live without Grid and HoT timers too.

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How does having the dots change colors cause any information overload? They stay in the same place and serve the same purpose (does this target have this HoT?). The only addition is that you can tell if the HoT is about to expire without any additional clutter. If your argument is that it's a bad idea because you can live without it, I'm not sure you'll really get anywhere. You can live without Grid and HoT timers too.

I have not said that the dots were causing information overload, feel free to quote me if I did and I'll correct it. All I said that there are other ways to display that rejuvenation was active beside dots on grid.

My point, was that HoTs not being fire-and-forget is flawed, because (in most fights) the only people you have 100% uptime for your HoTs is tanks. I don't know where your getting anything else from my posts, I'd be happy to correct it otherwise. I definitely have no issue with people using Grid to show the status of thier hots, what people are more comfortable healing with is mostly irrelevant as long as they get it done. Lets not turn this thread into a Grid vs Timer discussion.

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To be honest, the thing is that I heal the tanks via Grid as well and for them I do need the functionality of knowing when their HoTs are about to run out, I think we can all agree on that. But because there is really no reason to try and find out a way to make HoT expiration show for tanks and not for the rest of the raid (if it could even been done at all) and since the extra information doesn't trouble or overload me, I'm just using it as is :)

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As there seemed to be a desire to discuss this more indepth than originally thought this thread has been created and the majority of UI posts from elsewhere have been (or will be soon) moved here in order to have a clear place for people to find and talk about various UI topics.

Again please try and keep things as informative as possible and not fill the thread up with "hi guys i dld grid and tryed it and it waz gud -Restotard lvl 79 Lagchewer" types of posts. If someone provided you with information you were looking for that's great but if that's all you wanted to say in your reply then we can manage without it.

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Long time ago I tried a small addon called Lifebloomer. It made the calculations based on your latency and showed when you should refresh the blooming. Thanks to that addon I was able to get used to my 600 latency and still keep my 4 lifeblooms rolling. But... it was horrible to set up and it looked terrible as well.

What I would really like to see is an easier way to keep track of hots, specially lifebloom stacks, on multiple targets. Bars are way too big for that; I'm looking for solutions on that for quite some time. I like to have a clean interface but the timers always mess everything up. I'm using Grid but it doesn't feel reliable; looks like it takes a bit longer than PitBull to update health numbers.

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I mainly use Grid and Dotimer to track my HoTs, and I've been having the issue of my screen being completely filled with WG bars. I don't want to turn them completely off, so I was wondering if anyone knew of either a config option, or a .lua hack that would allow me to set up Dotimer to only show the WG bar on one person. It would preferably be my target, if not a random person would work fine. Especially with the cooldown nerf going into effect, knowing how long it has remaining on 1 person is almost as good as on everyone.

Edit. Nevermind, I found I could set it as a party buff and it just shows one bar with a number showing how many people it's on.

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Long time ago I tried a small addon called Lifebloomer. It made the calculations based on your latency and showed when you should refresh the blooming. Thanks to that addon I was able to get used to my 600 latency and still keep my 4 lifeblooms rolling. But... it was horrible to set up and it looked terrible as well.

What I would really like to see is an easier way to keep track of hots, specially lifebloom stacks, on multiple targets. Bars are way too big for that; I'm looking for solutions on that for quite some time. I like to have a clean interface but the timers always mess everything up. I'm using Grid but it doesn't feel reliable; looks like it takes a bit longer than PitBull to update health numbers.

You should really take a second look at Grid imo. If you feel it updates slowly, try installing Instant Health. It's and add-on that updated hp values based on your combatlog and not from the information it gets server side. It's compatible with almost all unitframes add-ons I believe.

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My point, was that HoTs not being fire-and-forget is flawed, because (in most fights) the only people you have 100% uptime for your HoTs is tanks.

I can just off the top of my head think of several cases where your statement is not entirely valid. True many fights you don't have to focus on ten or more targets, but in MOST fights, you are going to be healing more than just the MT/OT.

First let me preface this by stating I have not yet configured Grid properly, so am not using it in raids. I see a couple benefits to grid knowing who is still hotted up. One obviously is effective healing, but secondly, this can be better than having a second innervate or hundreds more MP5.

I say this because contrary to the quoted comment above, there actually are several encounters where you want to have practically 100% uptime on hots to a very large number of people.

The most obvious example is Sapphiron. As a resto druid, I can completely negate the periodic frost damage ticks for an entire 10 man raid by maintaining rejuv on every target. So that is one example that explains effective healing.

Secondly, on the mana gain side, I currently use x-perl, so I only can easily only track my hots on my target and focus, which means I am most likely wasting a TON of mana, refreshing hots on targets that already have hots with half duration remaining or more, simply because it's not that easy to mentally track who has what hot, on a large pool of raid members.

There are many other examples where phases of boss fights this would be a great help, such as pre-hots for Malygos for the cyclone or whatever it's called. Making sure your assigned targets have hots up before the healing window opens on Loetheb, decimate on Gluth.

Heck even wildgrowth in it's current state, if you have a bunch of people at low health, and wildgrowth one player, you don't necessarily know all 4 of the other players that received the hot, so seeing this instantly, can assist you if you need to cast a second one, to avoid re-casting it on a target that currently has it. Of course, this all changes post 3.08, but still it's just another example.

In any case, I think my point is fairly clear. Knowing all this information not only will increase your effective healing, it will save you a boat load of mana, since we still are one of the best raid heal classes in the game, and an addon like grid seems to be a great way to maximize this roll.

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I mainly use Grid and Dotimer to track my HoTs, and I've been having the issue of my screen being completely filled with WG bars. I don't want to turn them completely off, so I was wondering if anyone knew of either a config option, or a .lua hack that would allow me to set up Dotimer to only show the WG bar on one person. It would preferably be my target, if not a random person would work fine. Especially with the cooldown nerf going into effect, knowing how long it has remaining on 1 person is almost as good as on everyone.

Edit. Nevermind, I found I could set it as a party buff and it just shows one bar with a number showing how many people it's on.

You can tell Dotimer to simply ignore Wild Growth as a spell altogether. I did this with trinkets and stuff like Clearcasting that I just don't need to see a timer for.

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I've found it difficult to overcome the learning curve of using Grid and either mouseover macros (my hands don't work the movement keys and the spell keys at the same time well) or a Clique-type addon (same issue with modifier keys). I'm not sure what I can do to improve my performance with the setup aside from sucking (more) for a little while until it comes more naturally. Something I'm not eager to do.

I've been using Rewatch, which allows me to click-cast on spell names, and has built-in decursing indicators. The amount of screen real estate is the main drawback for me, but it improves my healing throughput immensely.

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I've found it difficult to overcome the learning curve of using Grid and either mouseover macros (my hands don't work the movement keys and the spell keys at the same time well) or a Clique-type addon (same issue with modifier keys). I'm not sure what I can do to improve my performance with the setup aside from sucking (more) for a little while until it comes more naturally. Something I'm not eager to do.

I've been using Rewatch, which allows me to click-cast on spell names, and has built-in decursing indicators. The amount of screen real estate is the main drawback for me, but it improves my healing throughput immensely.

Well one of the things I have been doing for years is to rebind the default autorun to my middle mouse button instead of... uhm nunlock or whatever it used to be. In the heat of the fight where I need to move and heal I've grown used to quickly stearing with holding down the right mouse button (mouse view) and then toggling autorun with the middle mouse button. It gives me enough time to use the buttons 1-6 for heals (I have 1 WG, 2 LB, 3 rej, 4 regr, 5 SM, 6 nourish. I also use clique but only for the not so often used abilities. ALT-RMB = NS+HT macro, ALT-LMB = buff thorns, CTRL-RMB = decurse and SHIFT-RMB = abolish. Obviously the RMB alone is my mouseview (or pop up window when you right click on a unit frame) so no clique action there. And the LBM alone is target selecting. I also use the WASD keys to move but that is more when not in the middle of a raid encounter.

I don't even use a mouseover macro at the moment, so I click on a grid frame and then press one of the buttons 1-6 to heal. While it works pretty well and satisfying, I'm considering of changing all my heals on 1-6 to mouseover macro'ed heals.

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reytheist -- How do you bind your keys? If you're moving on WASD and using the (horrible) default keybindings, it's not your hands' fault you can't move and cast well at the same time. Moving your movement to ESDF and binding spells on the letter keys on the left half of the keyboard (and shift-variants) makes all the difference in the world.

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Ah, it seems information was posted in the last few minutes that made my post irrelevant.

I'm curious though, do any of you customize the settings for Grid other than the default?

I keep Rejuv blue, Regrowth white and Lifebloom red-yellow-green. I put WG in the bottom right all by itself.

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Here's my config for good measure:

kaurigrid.jpg

Dynalisia - What are you using to show HoTs by others? I've tried a couple different ways, but either it just doesn't show at all no matter how I change the config, or if they do show, they don't fall off when the HoTs are no longer active.

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To get that effect I simply have the indicators of GridStatusHots with bright colors (Grid->Status->My HoTs) set to a higher priority than the standard HoT indicators with dimmed colors (Grid->Status->Auras). This means that what looks like indicators showing 'HoTs by others' is in fact just indicators showing any HoT of that type, but since MyHoTs will overwrite the indicator when I put my own stuff on there, it's easy to differentiate.

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I used to primarily play on just a laptop, so I picked up Grid to keep everything nice and compact and easy to look over as quick as possible. With Add-Ons like HoTimer I found myself thinking too much about flat numbers. I find it a lot easier to react to the color changes along with the timers of Grid.

One thing I also tried out was binding all my keys A-H and Z-N with shift/ctrl/alt modifiers. This gave a parallel set-up to my action bars which I feel helped me react smoother.

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I mainly use mouseover macros to heal so the Grid's border status for unit selection isn't useful to me at all. I use the border instead to easily show me swiftmendable targets by activating both Rejuvenation and Regrowth indicators on the border.

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