Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Keruen

3.1 PTR

802 posts in this topic

I have no issues with not optimizing OFSR time. I take issues with the general way the game seems to be going for healers. To use Nidaba's term they seem to want us to take 'measured' approach.

I like to call it "conservative". TOO Conservative. It seems they REALLY want us to do things as a healing team. They want us to not heal the guy that has a HoT on him, let the HoT heal him up.

Seems like they have the general opposite expectation for healers than they do for dpsers. Dpsers try their hardest, always. Healers will have to hold back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh well. I'm one of those "old-school-priests" out there. I'm paying more attention to mana-effeciency as to HPS. I was quite happy about those 2 clearcasts (SoL and iHC), getting me out of the 5s rule as that's what priests should do to get manaregen. I think I rember those words from a bluepost during BC time. Not to mention healing rotation at the beginning.

I guess as I don t have to watch for clearcasts any longer, holy might become a little "easier". Overall, I can t await the results from the TC in this forum (missed the time to copy my char, duh) as I got some concerns with the new/revamped talents.

* Serendipity (Tier 8 ) changed to: When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 6/12/20%. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 20 sec.

This looks a bit weird to me. 3 Stacks? Mh, -60% casttime on PoH = 1.2 sec, GH = 1.0 sec. That s allready way unter the GCD, even without haste. I don t see the sense in that as you can get down to GCD with 2 Stacks and some haste. Guess 5 stacks would give us another "oh-shot"-button, making it OP - tho I d like that *g* Dunno, could need some tweaking here.

* Holy Concentration (Tier 7) changed to: Your mana regeneration is increased by 16/32/50% for 8 sec after you critically heal with Flash Heal, Greater Heal, Binding Heal or Renew. (Previously had a chance to grant clearcasting effect)

Renew? Is this an error? Did they change renew? Or would this just happen if you take empowered renew (on the initial heal)? I hope it's the 2nd point, but I could bet it s the 3rd one *g* should be mentioned in the tooltip... Anyway, 75% infight regen (or 150% outfight for 3 sec...) sounds nice, hope to see some numbers on this talent from TC-players.

* *New Talent* Empowered Renew, Tier 9, 3 point talent - Your Renew spell gains an additional 5/10/15% of your bonus healing effects, and your Renew will instantly heal the target for 5/10/15% of the total periodic effect.

I like this one and I bet some others do so as well. With 3 points it s a ~20% boost to renew - and respecting HC, even with a crit component. If I got my numbers correctly, the initial heal should be a 1k heal (@2k addheal). Not that much, but it's a 6th tick on renew with the ability to proc HC and SoL - fine.

* Test of Faith (Tier 9) now increases healing by 4/8/12% on friendly targets at or below 50% health.

Instead of 6% crit we get 6% increased healing. Looking at the crit proc talents we got, I d prefer 6% crit over 6% healing, from the target s point of view ("I m going down!!!!11), the increased healing is better as it will be always there and not just a chance to get more healing. As I m focused on raidhealing I don t care too much about this.

Finally, my raiding spec would look like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=050320310000000000000000000023505003200215253105331051000000000000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9614

No improved healing? Right, as raid heal I barely use GH and with the changed HC I don t even have a clearcast for it.

No test of faith? Could put 1 point from lolwell in here, but that s it. I prefer the other talents over ToF and I don t have enough points to get it.

Can t await the next PTR-update with talent changes so I can build a new talent spec - that s far more interesting than running around in the Bank of Dalaran :O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to the Disc regen nerf: seems like Divine Aegis no longer benefits from Rapture as well, which leads to crit rating no longer being used as a regen stat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.

Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.

Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

According to the current numbers I've seen, HC procs in 3.1 are worth about 300 mana over 8 seconds. Flash heal costs 600; Plus, SoL doesnt mean you can't crit again over those next 8 seconds, just you can't crit with that particular flash heal. Pretty safe to say SoL is still one of the top talents in the tree. Take it. Use it!

I'd like to know how SoL generated procs interact with the new serendipity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tyrlir: yes, yours is probably the best approach to the calc.

In the end, the new DP seems to compensate more than decently for the overall loss of DPS thanks to new-Shadowform.

I don't have a connection good enough to DL PTR's client, but :

has anyone tested if IF works for SW:P, and, if it does, if the 25% crit chance bonus is retained through P&S refreshes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like to know how SoL generated procs interact with the new serendipity.
SoL procs do give you a stack of Serendipity. Also, Binding Heal gives two stacks (although the second appears to be slightly delayed); this may be a bug or just buggy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meditation rant:

I can't think of another class where ALL specs go 13 into one specific tree. Usually those are Tier 1 talents (Shaman go for Int in Enhancement tree, now Paladins will go for the +heal in the Prot tree, Warriors go for +crit in Fury tree, Hunters for +damage in SV tree, etc.) So all specs might dip only 5 points in one specific tree rather than 13.

PvE Hunters do.

Until 3.0, they even had to take 20 points in marksman.

Now, they can reduce it to at least 11, and 13 is often better (only some bm builds don't take the 13 points in marksman).

These talents seems pretty mandatory (5% crit chance, conversion of 1 int -> 1 RAP, focus regen for your pet when the hunt crits, and "eventually" bonus damage to yellow crits "which some bm hunters partially skip).

Guess that all dps dk takes also 10+ points in blood.

11 points in resto are mandatory for any PvE (and PvP I suspect) druid spec. But that's also partially for a lack of other interesting points (boomkin).

Please note also that :

1/ Holy tree is no interest for SP ;

2/ Shadow tree is near no interest for healing priest (yes, there is the blood tap effect, and the reduced shadowfiend cd).

So, we all also need a secondary tree to put points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

I've never been on PTR but always eager to hear from people who went there and tested new stuff. My concern here is that I see a lot of numbers regarding regen for Disc Priest but not any actual testing in Naxxramas for fights like Patchwerk or in Heroics instance with Achievement purpose.

From my point of view, the actual regen for Disc Priest is to much. I barely use my Shadowfiend and I gemed my gear for haste. Not even talking about Mana pots that I never use.

At the end if 3.1 is "forcing" me to use Shadowfiend almost during each boss fight with sometimes a mana pots, I wouldn't see it as a problem if on the other hand I'm still doing my job right.

So I'm not sure how it is already on the PTR, but could we have some numbers/feedback from runs made in Naxxramas for exemple ? (while waiting for Ulduar to open for some new boss)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's only a few people having their chars copied on the PTR servers so it will take a while yet until a sizeable portion of people actually get to raid stuff.

For example when I logged into the PTR last night before 1am, a /who 80 returned about 20 logged in chars. Needless to say, no queue to log in what so ever and no lag in Dalaran made for a nice change. It's just too early yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are still some issues to solve with DoT critting, mainly I'm thinking :

- Is DoT crit rate determined at the moment of the tick ? when casted ?

- How does MF refresh of SW:P factor in ?

Mainly I'm thinking of those scenario : if I cast SW:P at the beginning of a fight (read : when raid crit buffs/debuffs are still not up), do I need to refresh it when the raid crit buffs/debuffs are up ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the thread on euro forums asking about shadow power:

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Shadow Priest DoT Damage nerf / Shadow Power

since the euro forums are a garbage dump ignore by developers, if someone could ask the same question on the us forums it would be greatly appreciated - stress the fact that while the DP buff covers the gap at current gear levels, this makes crit a completely throwaway stat for shadowpriests and forces us to stack damage and ignore everything else again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think the Darkness move will change shadow specs much - here's what I'm looking at:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=050320300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051023012323152301351&glyph=000000000000&version=9614

Basically, the only change is that 3 points had to come from somewhere to take the Imp DP talent. I chose Veiled Shadows and Inner Focus. To be honest, in a PvE situation, those were both very mediocre talents anyway. I never have mana issues - the only reason I ever had points in those talents in the first place was because I had nowhere else to put them (and more threat reduction for raiding is almost completely useless).

While I agree with this in general, I believe that the new Shadowfiend upgrade and forcing us to make choices between talents, might end up killing Dispersion in PvE. Of course it's nice to have an "oh shit" button, but already now is dispersion a fair deal worse then a good timed fiend (6 seconds vs. 1 global cooldown downtime).

That said, I would rather look at something like this. Assuming the mana will continue not be an issue, one might consider moving the two points from Veiled Shadows into Improved Vampiric Embrace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extrapolate from the changes to Bloodlust to realize that there are going to be ~ 8+ minute fights in Ulduar. Likely 10+. From that, realize that any mana return talent you have, especially one you can use in down-time with no dps loss, is a good talent to take.

I'm hoping they figure out what they're doing with Hymn of Hope and fix it so I can actually use it in situations like that. If they buff it enough, it'll be even worth it for shadow priests (*gasp*) to use it in down-times, and then Inner Focus back into Shadowform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Glyph is only good if it's minor. Otherwise, it's buffing a SIX MINUTE cooldown ... who cares? CoH is a 6-second cooldown, Flash Heal is GCD, Renew is GCD, and PoH is ~ 2.5 seconds. There's no way you should ever use a major glyph that's so so situational.

Minor, sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I agree with this in general, I believe that the new Shadowfiend upgrade and forcing us to make choices between talents, might end up killing Dispersion in PvE. Of course it's nice to have an "oh shit" button, but already now is dispersion a fair deal worse then a good timed fiend (6 seconds vs. 1 global cooldown downtime).

That said, I would rather look at something like this. Assuming the mana will continue not be an issue, one might consider moving the two points from Veiled Shadows into Improved Vampiric Embrace.

Your build is pretty standard from any other PvE spec out there, with the exception of dispersion. The dps and mana gain from inner focus every 3 minutes in no way competes with the mana gain and situational usefulness of dispersion.

I would argue that http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?priest=050320300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000325023051003010323150301351&glyph=000000000000&version=9614 is a much more realistic baseline build, with plenty of room for customization. But any PvE build that leaves dispersion out, especially with less mana regen (supposedly) and longer fights is fail.

Also, I really fail to see where the devs are "forcing us to make choices between talents". There are dps talents and there are mana regen talents... then there are nice to have but not necessary talents. The only real difference between the tree now and the tree on the PTR is the loss of blackout (5 points) and the addition of imp DP (3 talents). Looked at in that light, we gained 2 free talents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PvE Hunters do.

Until 3.0, they even had to take 20 points in marksman.

Now, they can reduce it to at least 11, and 13 is often better

...

Guess that all dps dk takes also 10+ points in blood.

11 points in resto are mandatory for any PvE (and PvP I suspect) druid spec. But that's also partially for a lack of other interesting points (boomkin).

All warrior specs require 15 points to get Deep Wounds.

All mage specs require 18 points in arcane (excepting the increasingly suboptimal FFB) for Torment the Weak.

Do any warlocks not spend 15 talents in destruction to get Bane+Ruin?

My shadowpriest theorycraft in BC was always very weak, but I do recall an EJ thread with a Sunwell BiS draenei spriest who eventually produced enough VT regen to spec out of meditation. I am not suggesting it could happen with the new VT, but merely to point out that (1) a mandatory regen talent is still slightly more mutable than say a passive 12% damage buff to all your attacks, and (2) Blizzard has never had a problem hamstringing raid builds with cross-tree requirements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I would mention some work I did on PTR. I went in day one when it was up and specced for Disc (which I usually run as) and kept spamming shield the entire time to learn some things. When I went down the line casting PWS on all of my members I noticed of course when the tank's broke I got back mana, waited a while, then my party members bubble's faded and I got the mana back just bam bam bam. The CD must be only on giving target mana, rage, etc. and not on the recieving mana back for shield breaking. With this in mind it looks like a priest could spam cast PWS on a raid at any given downtime and depending on damage or time you will be gaining mana. This could be unintended, who knows, but depending on pool that could be a sizable amount of mana depending on the GCD's you have available to cast it around, really limitless mana since you are gaining more then spending. I did verify with my gear and minimal buffs I was gaining back more mana then I was losing from the spell (Which if u consider being glyphed thats getting paid to put a small heal plus 6ksh shield on X amount of raid members.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blizzard has mentioned Omen of Clarity and Ruin as other spec-neutral mandatory talents. This isn't a priest-exclusive complaint. Personally, I just don't see 13 points in discipline being a big deal.

Would we be a stronger class if meditation were moved to tier 1? Sure, a little bit. Would it suddenly make raid leaders go, "Wow, I want 4 priests in my raid instead of 3?" No.

I agree. Where else would these points go? Spell Warding still "wastes" 5 points in holy talents and doesn't really get you anything interesting deeper down. I mean, is 5/0/66 really that more exciting of a build (assuming Meditation was moved to a T1 5 point)? Is eliminating any decision making whatsoever from the shadow tree so you can get everything really interesting/fun on any level? You're still (generally) going to want 57 (58 on PTR currently) in shadow, minimum, to maximize your DPS, and any kind of holy/shadow hybrid build is either going to be a PvP novelty or (based on the current trees) gimp at both aspects in PvE.

What would the real benefit be of releasing those 8 talent points (and let's be honest, it's 8 not 13 because you'd still likely get Twin Disciplines for SW:P/DP/SW:D damage, even if Meditation were simply deleted from the game/made baseline/whatever).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, I really fail to see where the devs are "forcing us to make choices between talents". There are dps talents and there are mana regen talents... then there are nice to have but not necessary talents. The only real difference between the tree now and the tree on the PTR is the loss of blackout (5 points) and the addition of imp DP (3 talents). Looked at in that light, we gained 2 free talents.

Except for the fact that blackout was never really in the cookie cutter shadow priest build for PvE raiding, so it's questionable that any talents are being freed up here. With a standard 14/0/57 build ignoring Shadow Affinity, it is possible to get all the mana/health regen, DPS talents plus the pushback protection/snare removal from improved Shadowform. It's hard to say what's up first on the chopping block before we get a glance of what Ulduar fight are like, but Inner Focus and Improved Shadowform probably are the first 3 points to go. Cutting out our other mana regeneration talents seems like a bad choice, fights tend to last longer while you're learning them, so while in current content there may be little use for Dispersion or reduced Shadowfiend cooldowns, it's quite likely that may no longer be the case come Ulduar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought I would mention some work I did on PTR. I went in day one when it was up and specced for Disc (which I usually run as) and kept spamming shield the entire time to learn some things. When I went down the line casting PWS on all of my members I noticed of course when the tank's broke I got back mana, waited a while, then my party members bubble's faded and I got the mana back just bam bam bam.

Just to clarify, you were receiving Rapture returns when your shields expired, even if they hadn't been fully consumed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye. When the shield went away (both from damage and time expiration) I got mana back. As well when I cast a random shield on myself and don't take damage when the shield expires due to time I get the mana back. It appears that the rapture effect for the priest (of receiving the 2.5% mana from shield popping) happens without a cooldown and whether the shield is broken or time expired. We were doing a heroic nexus for my testing otherwise just kind of running around randomly tossing shields on myself as well when doing the new dailies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.