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Rosamonde

Raiding with Beast Mastery in 3.3.3 and beyond

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At that number of iterations I definately agree that those numbers will be better at determining the difference. So, back to my original "criticisms" - crit rates influence on the difference due to one more point in MS in the AiS build, I still think the jury is out. I would love to have another instant and a big one at that, but I still think we need to look at the scenario where only the AiS point is moved to eliminate the 1 point in mortal shots from being the changer rather than AiS itself. Where that point is to come from I'm not 100% certain, Imp. Tracking is the obvious choice as we only have those 5 points in the survival normally, but I wonder if this is actually the best place to take it from, I'm more in the lines of Cobra Shot for 2/3 CS instead of 3/3 CS - as I talked about earlier in this thread CS becomes worth less per point the more crit we have because we proc it more often and thus are more likely to have it go to waste.

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@Rosamonde

With Rowan's creeping up in disucssions several tiems and places (not all here) I think it would be an idea to mention it in the first post - nothing fancy just a general "yes it is a (very) good ranged weapon for beastmaster hunters" in some way or form. I seem to remember seeing this discussed before this instance of it - could possibly also negate some of the "huntard, lol" comments if its staed in teh first post of the guide on this site (I have yet to come across anyone that actually disputes the validity of presented information here at EJ)

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier -- I have added it to the OP.

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I ran some talent changes and also noticed that Invigoration was giving me heeps of DPS over Longevity. Would anyone know why this is?

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I ran some talent changes and also noticed that Invigoration was giving me heeps of DPS over Longevity. Would anyone know why this is?

It probably prevents you from needing to use AotV with the way you're set up. Make sure you have key buffs like JoW enabled before you try to calculate the value of mana talents.

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It probably prevents you from needing to use AotV with the way you're set up. Make sure you have key buffs like JoW enabled before you try to calculate the value of mana talents.

Just tested again and even with all raid buffs activated it still showed a ~250dps increase with 2 points in Invigoration. The other thing I noticed was simply taking one point out of Longevity was giving a dps increase. Is this a bug or is there math behind this?

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I remember there previously having been discussion about removing 1 point from longevity. I think the theoretical increase you see comes from cooldowns lining up better and / or letting a focus starved pet get off more attacks total. Whether the theoretical increase equals a real increase depends partly on what part is weighted - i.e. if its a focus starved pet then it will imeediately become a real dps increase due to the pets ai getting to do more - if its "just" the cd's lining up better, then you will probably not see anything in a real environment if you have the cooldowns macroed together for instance.

In regards to the invigoration increase - what did the points for invig come out of? Invig will be a dps boost on any fight where you run out of mana and have to go to viper to regen - and it might be a bigger gain than the loss of whatever points you removed. This increase should be actual and directly visible in any real fight that follows the spreadsheet model (fightlength, buffs etc).

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The points in Invigoration in my tests came out of Longevity. It was showing that it gave me more to take everything out of Longevity and put 2 in Invigoration and 1 extra point to put where ever, than keeping anything in it.

Something along the lines of this

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

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Wohoo, found a reason to dig the BM thread out : )

Arcane spam during BW provides quite a lot of Cobra Strikes procs, thus focus via Invigoration. I can't recall being low enough on focus during BW to go for SS.

Maybe yes, but it´s only a 10 sec window and Invigoration only procs vom Basic Attacks (3-4 during BW). With a 15% chance on each Arcan, it´s a 27% probability of not getting Cobra Strikes at all. (0.85^8 = 0.272). Sure right now my pets critchancen ist around 70% (->2% of not getting a proc with 3 attacks) and my Hast around 30% (Ingi glooves; -> 52 passive regen). Assuming Gylphe and one Invigoration proc 76 focus is enogh. But being 85 soon and low on hast and crit we´re going to pool to 90+ focus to be on the save side.

My point is: Befor BW you have to pool as much focus as possible and Kindred Spirit is helping us a lot with it. 10 extra focus per fight ~ no DPS at all (very little), but being able to pool higher with out losing focus does the trick.

Something else:

How to use Focus Fire?

In theory our pet has 5 Stacks after 15 sec (Bestial Discipline, no autoshots) and we can use it on CD with always having the full benefit (20 petfocus + 15% hast for 15 sec), but in reality this holds not true. Should we still use it on CD?

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So far FF is going to be kept on CD unless it's during BW. FF provides us with a steady haste buff to bring our SS (and CoS in Cata) cast times down to the GCD (1sec). FF is BM's version of to ISS.

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So far FF is going to be kept on CD unless it's during BW. FF provides us with a steady haste buff to bring our SS (and CoS in Cata) cast times down to the GCD (1sec). FF is BM's version of to ISS.

I've been toying with the idea of specing down MM to pick up ISS (since I seem to pair up my SS alot). Any theory on potential DPS gains versus other talents at 85?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is my basic idea (Also doubling as my soloing/extreme soloing build, therefore the point in Imp Mend Pet)

Still debating whether 3/3 Pathing will return better yields than 3/3 ISS. I am guessing it is fight-dependent. More movement gives advantage to Pathing, while less movement gives advantage to ISS.

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Still debating whether 3/3 Pathing will return better yields than 3/3 ISS. I am guessing it is fight-dependent. More movement gives advantage to Pathing, while less movement gives advantage to ISS.

I don't know about the dps gains of those two talents, but at level 85 movement isn't going to be decisive since we'll have Aspect of the Fox.

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In the interest of Cataclysm launching tonight we are going to close the current threads. I have sent a PM to the OP to see if they wish to continue their much appreciated work in the Cataclysm thread. In the meantime if you are interested in authoring the Cataclysm thread (or assisting) please send me a PM.

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