Thaeryn

Ret FCFS Rotation Helper

1033 posts in this topic

Not gonna lie, I actually kind of like it, and can see how it'd come into it's own on single target fights.

Not to mention the / command to open the menu is great.

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It's good, but a big beef is that the interface switches to a higher priority if it has < 1.5 seconds left on it's cooldown. It doesn't adhere well to one of our the major canons of Retribution DPSing; Hit your highest priority 1st, don't ever wait.

Basically, the best way to address this would be to have the "USE ME NOW" ability display only update with a higher priority ability when that ability comes completely off cooldown. And a minor, graphical suggestion on the AW section, have it permanently displayed, if possible.

I'll definitely try this out next raid, it sure does show some promise.

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I definitely know what you mean about it changing to a different cooldown. Personally, I found it pretty easy to get around mentally, but I'll try to tackle it some more via the coding. What do you mean about having the AW section displayed permanently though? Just dim the graphic while it's on cooldown? Thanks for your comments.

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I definitely know what you mean about it changing to a different cooldown. Personally, I found it pretty easy to get around mentally, but I'll try to tackle it some more via the coding. What do you mean about having the AW section displayed permanently though? Just dim the graphic while it's on cooldown? Thanks for your comments.

The changing priorities is manageable, it's just a bit annoying, personally.

Have the icon of Avenging Wrath permanently there, just have the grayed out overlay there, with it gradually coming off cooldown (like how Blizzard displays CDs by default). There also could be a priority setting for Holy Wrath. Oh, and maybe an Opacity slider for the display box!

Please don't read into my comments as harsh criticism, I'm really trying to be constructive ^_^. I really do like the idea and current iteration, it could just use a tab bit more polishing.

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The changing priorities is manageable, it's just a bit annoying, personally.

Have the icon of Avenging Wrath permanently there, just have the grayed out overlay there, with it gradually coming off cooldown (like how Blizzard displays CDs by default). There also could be a priority setting for Holy Wrath. Oh, and maybe an Opacity slider for the display box!

I'll second the opacity slider if it's at all possible. I also do like the idea of the CD showing on AW.

Is there a way to make the icons... stickied(I guess that'd be a way to put it.)... until used it does that? I dunno if thats exactly what happens, but it does seem a bit clunky at times.

EDIT: Actually I know it says it only recommends AW during Heroisms/Bloodlusts, but maybe make it... flash... or something when Heroisms up, since in 3.1 AW is off the GCD completely.

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I've updated to a new version. I added the cooldown graphic to the Avenging Wrath icon and updated the suggestion code to take into account the actual current GCD rather than a static value. It seems to have cleaned up quite a bit, and shouldn't jump in between abilities mid global as much.

As far as the way it recommends Avenging Wrath, I didn't want to be too intrusive with it. AW is something you may pop at a different time on every fight, so I've just slipped it in to a spot where it won't intrude with anything else and still remind you to use it if you haven't yet. Basically, once all your abilities are on cooldown, the large suggestion icon and the smaller next ability icon are blank. If this happens during a bloodlust, it will display the avenging wrath icon if it is off of cooldown. I haven't had a chance to really test this functionality in a raid yet (I don't raid on a ret paladin), so please feel free to troubleshoot it a bit and let me know what you think.

EDIT: After re-reading your suggestion for the flash on Avenging Wrath... I see what you're suggesting more clearly. I think I like the idea, and I'll look at doing that instead of adding it as a last-draw suggestion. A nice red glow, kind of like a PowerAuras alert around the icon, would look pretty spiffy. It's on the to-do list.

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Looks promising. I'll have to test this out tonight.

BTW: Interesting acronym your add-on's name creates... (S)erious (H)elp (I)n (T)iming. I assume this isn't just a coincidence.

Also, reading the readme.tst file in the add-on folder... it's copy/pasted straight from Facemauler it seems. Doesn't relate to your add-on at all.

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That acronym has GOT to be a complete coincidence! ;)

I just noticed the readme file today, and it's on my todo list to re-write once I get home from work. This addon was actually a re-write of Face Mauler. I've got a couple more changes I'm planning to push through today as well, so be sure to check for updates.

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Nice addon I look forward to using it to see how it works out but I was curious, Is the HoW check coded so no matter what Priority it is set for it will only activate based on the targets health?

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Nice addon I look forward to using it to see how it works out but I was curious, Is the HoW check coded so no matter what Priority it is set for it will only activate based on the targets health?

Yup, sure is.

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Yeah nice and simple addon, a couple of suggestions i'd like to see:

1. An option to only toggle on bosses. I doubt that the addon will be able to recommend anything properly on multi-target encounters, so the addon is kinda wasted on solo-PvE/PvP and most treash in instances.

2. Why not just come with a preset priority system?

3. What about Divine Plea(And sacred shield in 3.1)? I know it's kinda beyond the scope of the addon, but personally i'm having a hard time timing my Divine Pleas, either i just activate them too early, or i activate them too late, i usually waste a tick or so because of the mana return on the Judgements.

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Yeah nice and simple addon, a couple of suggestions i'd like to see:

1. An option to only toggle on bosses. I doubt that the addon will be able to recommend anything properly on multi-target encounters, so the addon is kinda wasted on solo-PvE/PvP and most treash in instances.

2. Why not just come with a preset priority system?

3. What about Divine Plea(And sacred shield in 3.1)? I know it's kinda beyond the scope of the addon, but personally i'm having a hard time timing my Divine Pleas, either i just activate them too early, or i activate them too late, i usually waste a tick or so because of the mana return on the Judgements.

I like the fact that you can set the priorities. Future proofs it a little bit. I also wouldn;t midn seeing a SS/DP type icon, but.. I think it may start to clutter it up.

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I like the fact that you can set the priorities. Future proofs it a little bit. I also wouldn;t midn seeing a SS/DP type icon, but.. I think it may start to clutter it up.

I didn't mean it should be hardcoded of course :)

So for example it includes the 3.1 suggested priority when 3.1 is released, and the user gets prompted if he wants to use that instead, as it's recommended, if for any reason this changes, either due to new information or a new patch, then a new version with the new priority system is recommended.

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My issue with hardcoding any kind of preset priority, is that it can still be different from one person to the next. I've done a LOT of theorycrafting on the optimum FCFS rotation, and this is just a tool I used to help real world testing of different priorities. Things like your tier bonus or libram can definitely impact your priority list. Even things as simple as having an add pop out on the boss. For this reason, I wanted to make this addon hold as few hands as possible. It's a tool that should be primarily used for target dummy practice, or a quick way back into your optimum rotation if you had to run from the boss or change targets for a moment.

I know it will be used for more than that, but I don't really want to go down that road with the development. I've been considering options for the DS/SS timer as well. I've discussed that a little in the WoW Interface comments section and one of the users there recommended this addon for SS timing:

WatchSacredShield: WatchSacredShield - Addons - Curse

I don't raid on a ret paladin and just theorycraft for a friend, so I'm not aware of the finer points of using SS or DS on raid bosses... if someone could give me a quick overview, and how the addon could help you with it, then I can look it over and see if it's something I'd like to put in.

Also, as far as only being enabled on bosses... I can look into it as an option. I'm not immediately aware of an easy way to tell the difference between bosses and trash though.

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Well sure i have no need for presets, just think it would be a general good idea, infact you could make preset support so people can make their own presets as well and easily switch between them.

Sacred Shield/Divine Plea might be a bit much, but the idea with Divine Plea is that you might sometimes use it to early, for example you may get 2-3 judgements in the duration DP lasts, and then it's kinda silly if those judgements keeps maxing your mana.

Anyways for bosses you should take a look at this: UnitClassification - World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons

Raidbosses are classified as "WorldBoss"

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Thanks for the info on Raid bosses. That should be simple enough to add in as an option.

With the presets... that can probably be done with just the standard "Profiles" option that the majority of addons use. Shouldn't be an issue to add, so I'll take a look into it.

I'll add the boss only option to the todo and see if I can get that in the next version. Let me know if you have any other suggestions or ideas. Try to keep suggestions focused on polish and usability of current features though. I'm a big fan of small addons that do exactly what I want them to do, rather than a big addon that does lots of stuff I want and some stuff I don't.

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Keep them coming. :)

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While having a Plea or SS reminder is nice, you would have to code in a few conditions to make it worthwhile.

With SS you want to refresh it whenever all your dps abilities are on cooldown, and time left on SS is 15 seconds or less.

Plea you pop whenever your mana is less than 75% and all dps abilities are on cooldown.

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Hm... both of those things are within the scope of this addon. I can go ahead and add those in with an option to enable them or disable them in the options. I'm still not keen on the idea of putting up cooldown timers for them, as that's something better handled by another addon. Recommending spell usage based on your other ability cooldowns is what this addon is all about though.

In the case that the conditionals for both SS and DP are met, which would take priority? Would it be a matter of mana? Let's say... all abilities are on cooldown, mana is at 70%, time left on SS is 10 seconds. Recommend SS?

Same situation, this time you are at 30% mana though. Recommend DP instead?

Let me know and I'll see if I can tack that on.

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Why not allow people to choose which they want to be prioritized via a togglable setting? On most fights you will want to prioritize DP over SS but there will be some where you will want SS to be up as much as possible.

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Why not allow people to choose which they want to be prioritized via a togglable setting? On most fights you will want to prioritize DP over SS but there will be some where you will want SS to be up as much as possible.

Special settings are nice, but I can never fill every need there. I prefer to still leave it up to the player to modify their priority to fit the needs of a specific fight. This mod is based off of a feral druid addon called Face Mauler. It does basically the exact same thing. I don't use Face Mauler while raiding though... it's too static. There are too many situations. Yes, I'm saying that if I raided on a Ret Paladin, I wouldn't even use my own addon. This addon fills a very nice niche for a large majority of ret paladins though. When writing this addon, I had target dummies in mind, not bosses. The extra features for bosses were something I threw in to make the mod a lot more useful for the majority of people without cluttering it up. I'd like to keep that fairly simple approach to it.

If you find that your needs go a bit beyond what this mod offers, check out Event Horizon. I use this mod for raiding on my feral druid, my affliction warlock, and leveling my alt paladin. It takes out the handholding but gives you the information in a better format than just cooldown timers.

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I think the priority of DP over SS will probably depend on the mana regen situation we're faced with in Ulduar. Early tests indicate we shouldn't be struggling for mana (most likely mana positive with a basic rotation and all raid buffs/debuffs), so, in a 25-man raid, I'd probably prioritize SS over DP - especially given that the conditional on SS is 15s remaining duration.

Gaps in the rotation should come up every 20-30 odd seconds in a FCFS setup, so prioritizing SS should guarantee it's up 95% of the time. On the other hand waiting on DP should still leave you with 70% of it's peak mana return. Also, a dead paladin deals no damage and SS is worth quite a lot of mitigation from AoE... if you find yourself running mana negative, you should have a minute or two to realize this and prioritize DP for yourself.

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There is the issue of mana regen outside of perfect 25 man settings. There are a lot mana regen buffs you are liable to be missing outside of 25 mans.

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