Thaeryn

Ret FCFS Rotation Helper

1033 posts in this topic

The behavior when all the abilities are on cooldown is a bit funky. It currently displays nothing in the active slot and the next slot when all abilities are on cooldown and then an ability will suddenly pop up with maybe .1 or .2 seconds left on its cooldown so it's tought to react.

I think the ideal thing to do here would be to always show the following abilities in both of these slots. If the next active abilities are coming up in say 2 and 2.2 seconds the icons should be shown with the cooldown shadows reflecting these times.

As some others suggested some extra slots for other common paladin abilities would be great too.

Great idea for a mod by the way.

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I'm still very used to manually watching cooldown and handling clash resolution with a milisecond timer helping me out, but I decided to give this addon a tryout. Hillarious acronym, by the way.

To see the full range of the addon, I disabled my traditional bars (bartender) that had my spells on it and played with the addon. There were a few instances when all abilities were on cooldown and there was no "next cast" slot (as mentioned by the above poster). The other thing I played with was with timing priorities when they would refresh. For example, when an ability finished on its cooldown (say Hammer of Wrath at 1 sec until cooldown completion) and everything but Exorcism was on cooldown (2+ seconds), using Exorcism removed Hammer of Wrath from the "next cast" and "cast now" locations until another ability finished its CD.

This is absolutely an amazing addon for people starting off as a retadin or playing with it as their offspec. One of the most interesting features is how it considers GCD clash on cooldowns.

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I know for a fact that if a higher dps ability is coming off cd .1 seconds from now, I'm going to wait for it. Especially if there's a huge DPS difference. The only time I would hit the ability that's already off cd asap would be if the two abilities were extremely close DPS.

FCFS doesn't always apply.

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Just wanted to take the time to say thanks, I've been having a little bit of a rough time adopting to my new FCFS rotation, this thing has been amazing for me.

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I know for a fact that if a higher dps ability is coming off cd .1 seconds from now, I'm going to wait for it. Especially if there's a huge DPS difference. The only time I would hit the ability that's already off cd asap would be if the two abilities were extremely close DPS.

FCFS doesn't always apply.

You probably could have made an argument pre-3.1 about waiting that extra .1s for judgment to come off cd, but ret abilities are all a lot closer in damage than they used to be. Even pre-3.1 the math showed that waiting even .1s would ALWAYS result in a loss of dps. While you can do whatever you want on your character, it's not a good idea to come around and try to claim the currently accepted best method of dpsing is incorrect without any math to back it up.

Hard math>>>>>>>Opinions

FCFS ALWAYS applies. An extensive amount of time was spent by the authors of the various ret spreadsheets to prove that this is the case. Since you haven't shown anything other than your opinion with no math, it's probably safe to say that everyone else is better off sticking with the method that the math previously proved was best. If, however, you have done the math, please post it in the ret thread, because the math wizards over there would love to see it.

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Updated.

Did some more work on the jumpiness of the suggestions. I think I've ironed it out pretty well now. Also, added a longer term suggestion when everything is on cooldown. If you use your last ability, and everything else is on cooldown, the icon will go blank only during the GCD to indicate that there are no abilities within the next GCD to recommend. It will then show the next ability to come off of cooldown as the suggestion.

I think I'm going to go ahead and add in both SS and DP as options 7 and 8 in the priority for those people that want it there. I haven't had a lot of time to work on it between work and raiding, but hopefully I can have that, plus a couple of other little things I want to do, sometime in the next week.

There still might be some small issues with the "next" priority icon, especially when all abilities are on cooldown. This is just because of the basic way it's coded (the same algorithm as the current priority - 1.5s for the GCD). I don't particularly watch that icon much, so if it does anything too strange, let me know.

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

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Something happened with the latest build...

Using the agreed upon FCFS priority (CS, HoW, Judgment, DS, Consecrate, Exo) I was having Hammer of Wrath pop up in the middle of my rotations no matter what the mob's heath was at. So if during a fight Judgement, DS, Consecrate or Exo were still on CD then it would show to use Hammer of Wrath until Crusader Strike was ready to be used.

It's really hard to explain what was happening. The disappearing of the UI seemed to be happening less than before, but this seemed to be taking it's place.

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Something happened with the latest build...

Using the agreed upon FCFS priority (CS, HoW, Judgment, DS, Consecrate, Exo) I was having Hammer of Wrath pop up in the middle of my rotations no matter what the mob's heath was at. So if during a fight Judgement, DS, Consecrate or Exo were still on CD then it would show to use Hammer of Wrath until Crusader Strike was ready to be used.

It's really hard to explain what was happening. The disappearing of the UI seemed to be happening less than before, but this seemed to be taking it's place.

Had the same issue.

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The HoW issue occurs when all else is on cooldown. The first thing the code does is check for any spells off cooldown, or coming off within one GCD. This test ignores HoW if the spell is unavailable. The next part of the code then looks for the spell with the shortest cooldown of the ones you have prioritised; it doesn't make use of the HoW availability, but since immediately after casting the previous spell HoW gains a GCD cooldown value, it automagically becomes the "soonest available" spell, at least until its GCD expires, or another spell pops into GCD range.

I corrected this by putting the final "HoW soonest" code block in another "howavail == 1" conditional, and that seemed to help; it was then displaying a blank when everything was cooling down, which is better, but not quite right. In addition to this, when determining the spell with the shortest cooldown, each instance of "if <spell> < how" should become "if <spell> < how or howavail == 0".

With these changes in place, that is one seriously sexy addon! That training dummy's gonna hurt tomorrow...

EDIT: I cocked up the cooldown fix on the forum - rather than "and howavail == 1", it should read "or howavail == 0". The correct version is what I tested against; the incorrect version is merely what I posted to the world (now fixed).

EDIT the second: Removed suggestion to mail me for updated file - was intended for author, not general use; I have no right to be distributing modified versions of the addon.

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Thanks for looking into that rea123. I noticed that error after I had started adding in new priorities for DP and SS. I've also added a couple of other configuration options for showing the mod on viable targets, always while in combat, or only on boss targets.

I've ran into a couple of other bugs so I don't have the new version ready to go just yet, but I'll hopefully be releasing it later today or tomorrow with the HoW fix as well. Sorry about letting that one slip through.

EDIT:

Finished the update. Here are the changes/fixes:

- Added 2 more priority slots and support for Divine Plea and Sacred Shield.

- Added conditional options for mana to use Divine Plea and time left on Sacred Shield before refreshing.

- Removed "blank" spot in the rotation suggestion. Suggestions should now be very fluid with almost no jumpiness. The only jumps that I found occured when you were out of GCD (as another, higher priority, ability comes off of cooldown) or when you have been below the mana threshold for Consecrate and you rise above it, making Consecrate instantly available.

- Fixed calculations for Hammer of Wrath. It now does an additional check for target health before considering it for a long term suggestion.

- Added "Show On" option, allowing you to only show the addon on a "Viable Target" (the previous behavior), while "In Combat" (even if not targeting anything), and on "Bosses Only" (any mob with a skull instead of a level).

- Split the configuration screen into a main configuration page and a priority sub-page.

- Fixed usage at lower levels. Once you have Divine Storm, you should be able to use this addon, as long as you don't set a priority for a spell you don't know (Sacred Shield, Divine Plea).

A couple of things I haven't been able to test extensively are the "In Combat" option and using the addon while off-spec'd as Prot or Holy. If you run into any issues, please let me know (preferably via PM if just reporting an error message).

Thanks and enjoy.

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I seem to have found a bug that occurs when you don't place an actual spell in all the of spell priorities. When I leave Spell Priority 7 and 8 blank or set to None, I'll get all this text that shows up in my General Chat window. It seems to come up those two priorities come up. I usually see a Ret Aura icon in the present action box. It goes away if I just fill in the last two spell priorities with the same spell that's in 6.

Here's a screenshot of what I'm talking about...

wowscrnshot042509120344o.jpg

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Some debug code seems to have been left in. Your workaround (setting priorities 7 & 8) looks like it ought to fix it until it's updated, but in the meantime, you can safely remove the code. In SHIT.lua, search for "print(judge)" (without quotes), and remove that line along with the subsequent 7 print lines.

Edit: It occurs to me that the code reaching these debug lines without haveing returned a "next" spell may not be what was intended, but I've not looked into it in depth; no doubt Thaeryn will be able to set us straight. Otherwise I intend to have a play with the new version once I've finished today's daily marathon with the alt army.

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Indeed those print statements were never intended to be reached, and are an indication that the spell decision has failed. The issue was that each nominated (i.e. selected in one of the dropdowns) spell's cooldown is compared with every other spell in the list, regardless of whether those other spells were nominated or not. So in this case, the numbers on your screenshot show that divine plea has the lowest remaining cooldown, but since it was not one of your nominated spells, neither it nor any other spell could be suggested.

I have modified the selection code and tested both with and without spells in those two columns; I haven't managed to break it yet. Since Thaeryn has indicated he doesn't mind me posting modifications, I have attached my updated lua file to this post (assuming I can figure out how ;-) ).

I am a complete lua noob, who has largely been guessing on the syntax, so my modifications may not be ideal; I'd recommend awaiting an updated distribution to be uploaded to the usual sites rather than dropping my code in unless you're desperate.

SHIT.lua

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Yup, completely forgot to remove some of the debug output. Fixed that in the newest version. There may still be a couple of instances where the addon cannot determine your next cooldown for some reason. When that happens, you'll get Ret Aura. I've left that debugging on, so if you happen to see Ret Aura come up, just let me know what priorities you have set, what your conditionals and show on option are, and what level you are.

EDIT: Just looked over rea123's code changes. It's a pretty simple way to make sure that the problem doesn't happen. I'll go ahead and toss it into the official version. Thanks a bunch!

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I would just like to say thank you for creating this addon. It has really made raiding more enjoyable not having to look down at my action bars to see what abilities are about to come off cooldown.

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One thing lacking at this point is range checking. I've had issues when raiding hitting crusader strike for example when I'm out of range. Also, if I end up at distance from the boss excorcism should be prioritized followed by a judgement when in range. Also, out of range is the best time to refresh sacred shield, cast divine plea or AoW

So, somehow it would be nice if this information was reflected in the mod. The easiest thing I can think of is to simply not consider the ability when not in range. This may lead to a bit of jumpiness in the suggestions but is probably worth it and could be turned on/off with a filter by range option.

One other thing, now that the mod is suggesting divine plea and sacred shield which may be used out of combat I'd like to see an option to always show the mod, so it doesn't just show up in combat.

Finally, I've noticed the cooldown shading is messed up if you scale the frame smaller than default.

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One thing lacking at this point is range checking. I've had issues when raiding hitting crusader strike for example when I'm out of range. Also, if I end up at distance from the boss excorcism should be prioritized followed by a judgement when in range.

Honestly, this is unnecessary. If you can't realize to prioritize ranged attacks when you're at range, than you've got bigger problems than a mod not telling you how to play your character.

I haven't tried using the divine plea/sacred shield additions yet. Sacred shield I've pretty much got covered with my own macro/audible cues... Divine Plea I'm usually pretty good at remembering to hit it, but I'll try to throw this on tonight and see how it feels.

Nice work so far!! Keep it up.

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Maybe this is kind-of a waste, but maybe not. Would adding a quick way to switch between an AoE rotation and a single target rotation be worthwhile?

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Maybe this is kind-of a waste, but maybe not. Would adding a quick way to switch between an AoE rotation and a single target rotation be worthwhile?

I'd be tempted to say not; happy to hear dissenting opinions though. When going AoE your rotation is that bit simpler than single-target: prioritise DS and cons - throw HW if undead. Other than that, an exact spell rotation isn't going to buy you much on an AoE encounter. If nothing else, adds and trash packs tend to get dead so quick that you'll gain little by casting the "right" spell.

Single target dps makes a proper FCFS "rotation" that bit harder to manage, and as far as I can tell (head too fuzzy tonight for napkin maths) making mistakes in the priorities for a single target will hurt your dps more than in a multi-mob situation. I'd tell you how much of a dps gain I got from using this addon for single-target boss-fights on tonight's raid, but frankly I'm too embarrassed!

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Honestly, this is unnecessary. If you can't realize to prioritize ranged attacks when you're at range, than you've got bigger problems than a mod not telling you how to play your character.

The problem is that I don't know whether the ranged abilities are off cooldown or not without looking elsewhere on the screen. Seeing crusader strike as the next active ability is really pretty useless unless I'm in range - and by just using this mod I can't tell when it is that I get in range to use it.

I'm thinking something like this - you start a boss fight and have the boss targeted but out of range of exorcism. So it reminds you to refresh sacred shield since its independent of range. You keep an eye on the icon as you run closer and cast exorcism as soon as it is in range - get closer and judgment pops up. Then once you're in melee range it behaves as usual since everything is now in range. This is even more useful if you're bouncing between multiple targets so you know when exorcism is off cooldown, and can help you avoid casting divine storm when you're actually not in range of the target.

Yeah, you can have other mods that tell you when to refresh sacred shield etc... but I like to see as much info as possible in one place.

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I only skimmed the rest of this thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned.

For some reason, the Spell Priorities sub-menu of the Serious Help In Timing addon is located under another one of my addons in the interface list.

2jettw9.jpg

This was from the default install for the file that I downloaded earlier today.

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The problem is that I don't know whether the ranged abilities are off cooldown or not without looking elsewhere on the screen. Seeing crusader strike as the next active ability is really pretty useless unless I'm in range - and by just using this mod I can't tell when it is that I get in range to use it.

True.

The only issue I have with your logic is this: If you're 20+ yards away (i.e. out of melee range) why are you trying to Crusader Strike anyway? True, this mod will suggest that you use your highest dps ability first... but if I'm across the room from something, I'm not spamming Crusader Strike until I get in range for the mod to tell me to use something else. I automatically hit my longest range ability... Exorcism. Regardless of whether it goes off or not, my next ability will be Judgement. I really don't need to know if the abilities are off cooldown when I'm out of melee range, because I've really only got two options: I hit the ability and it does damage, or it's on cooldown and I can't do anything anyway because I'm out of melee range. This mod, and our FCFS priority system is based on being in melee range and on single target dps. Situations arise when you have to think outside of the box, no matter what the mod is telling you.

Granted, it could probably be changed to add some sort of a range check to it, but imagine how confusing that would be. Any mobile fight will seriously mess with what's displayed. Take a fight like Thorim for instance. I was on the arena team last night. Obviously, this isn't a fight where our normal FCFS system works. The mod was still helpful to let me know when my "big ticket" damage abilities were ready, but I found myself weaving around from target to target and dropping consecrates and blowing Divine Storm anytime I was running through the middle. Or on Hodir after a deep freeze... when I'm running to break people/npcs out of ice blocks, my first button I always hit is my longest range (exorcism) followed up by Judgement. Being a melee class, I guess it's just second nature to know what my ranged abilities are and instinctively hit them when I'm out of melee range. There's probably a way to change the mod to do that, but in the immortal words of Steve Stiffler: "I don't know, man... that sounds like a lot of work."

After the latest update, I stopped having the issue of ret aura popping up when everything was on cooldown. Definitely made sticking to my rotation easier and less distracting. I also noticed the missing config bars in the setup menu, but figured the FCFS rotation was imbeded in the mod now. Thanks for letting me know it's just hiding under another add-ons menu. :)

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If a range check would be added a simple clue like a red outline around a melee ability would be best for conveying information without causing the display to jump around.

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True.

The only issue I have with your logic is this: If you're 20+ yards away (i.e. out of melee range) why are you trying to Crusader Strike anyway? True, this mod will suggest that you use your highest dps ability first... but if I'm across the room from something, I'm not spamming Crusader Strike until I get in range for the mod to tell me to use something else. I automatically hit my longest range ability... Exorcism. Regardless of whether it goes off or not, my next ability will be Judgement. I really don't need to know if the abilities are off cooldown when I'm out of melee range, because I've really only got two options: I hit the ability and it does damage, or it's on cooldown and I can't do anything anyway because I'm out of melee range. This mod, and our FCFS priority system is based on being in melee range and on single target dps. Situations arise when you have to think outside of the box, no matter what the mod is telling you.

I'm not trying to use crusader strike outside of melee range - I'm saying it's useless to see it as the currently active ability if I can't actually use it when it could be suggesting something useful that I could be doing such as exorcism, divine plea or sacred shield.

Granted, it could probably be changed to add some sort of a range check to it, but imagine how confusing that would be. Any mobile fight will seriously mess with what's displayed. Take a fight like Thorim for instance. I was on the arena team last night. Obviously, this isn't a fight where our normal FCFS system works. The mod was still helpful to let me know when my "big ticket" damage abilities were ready, but I found myself weaving around from target to target and dropping consecrates and blowing Divine Storm anytime I was running through the middle. Or on Hodir after a deep freeze... when I'm running to break people/npcs out of ice blocks, my first button I always hit is my longest range (exorcism) followed up by Judgement. Being a melee class, I guess it's just second nature to know what my ranged abilities are and instinctively hit them when I'm out of melee range. There's probably a way to change the mod to do that, but in the immortal words of Steve Stiffler: "I don't know, man... that sounds like a lot of work."

It might be confusing, and might not work as well in PVP vs PVE. I'd like to see it in action to see how distracting the jumpiness might be. However, you'll only see potential jumpiness if you move between yards 5 and 6 (melee), 10,11(judgement) and 30,31 (exorcism) from the target. If you're on the target like glue you won't see any jumpiness, which you should try to be on a boss etc... It might be more useful to see jumpiness just so you know you're not quite in the bosses hitbox, or that you're your not sticking close enough to your target to actually hit with the ability the mod suggests.

When you are running between targets I guess you could spam exorcism or judgement as you get close but wouldn't it be helpful to know when you are immediately in range or exorcism just got off cooldown so you can press the button as soon as possible and not need to spam the keys?

I don't think it would be a lot of work to add an option for this - I could be wrong but I think it's relatively easy to filter abilities based on range - you see other mods shading buttons red when out of range for example.

If a range check would be added a simple clue like a red outline around a melee ability would be best for conveying information without causing the display to jump around.

This would be a useful start, but I still think it would be better to just show me something I can use instead of telling me the next highest priority ability can't be used because I'm out of range.

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Personally, I would tend to think that the problem with starting to make spell recommendations based on range would be that it wouldn't necessarily be immediately obvious that that was why it was offering that spell. Now I'd hope I'd be sufficiently aware of things around me to see the absence of boss-behind, or even that I haven't been asked to throw CS for a while, but I'd generally prefer the casting sequence algorithm not to change behaviour quietly.

At that stage, you could start talking about adding widgets to the display to tell you both that the normal sequence has been derailed, but that you could be casting <XYZ> instead, but I'd be concerned that this would start to be gilding the lily. As Heck suggests, when you're out of range, you have so few relevant abilities (beyond applying shank's pony) that the usefulness of a priority algorithm decays rapidly. Not to mention the fact that I would tend to worry more about watching where I was going, rather than looking at this addon's display. I wouldn't be convinced that the benefit would be great enough.

Now with that said, I do think that an indication of being out of range would be useful, based on my experiences in using the addon for the first time in a trip to Naxx last night. I can think of a few fights in there where I'd like an idea of range, and would definitely get use out of a border or "gel"-type mask on the primary button. Thaddius/Sapphiron have notoriously large hit-boxes, which are fight-affecting (stacking damage, or avoiding blizzards). Similarly, we have had a couple of 10-man KT fights where for one reason or another we are melee-heavy - trying to stay 10 yards away from each other placed us right on the edge of melee range.

However, when all's said and done, this is up to Thaeryn - it's his baby.

Edit: Forgot to mention the option submenu thing. That has me stumped! It works fine for me, and the code seems to be doing exactly what it should. If you disable the other addon, where does the submenu go?

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