Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

the KRIS

Ulduar

817 posts in this topic

With 3.1 going live today, it's time to have a real discussion thread on Ulduar. Post your general experiences related to the instance here.

Looks like a likely kill order (based on location per http://www.stratfu.com/tools/ulduar-map/ ) will be:

Flame Leviathan

Ignis

Razorscale

XT-002

Iron Council

Kologarn

And then it becomes a bit more nonlinear, with the option to take down the Watchers in virtually any order, excepting Auriaya before Freya.

Hodir

Thorim

Auriaya

Freya

Mimiron

Then finally:

Vezax

Yogg-Saron

Algalon

It's hard to really have an impression on difficulty level, since there's no way to know whether our experiences on the PTRs reflect the final tuning. I suppose we find out, for the earliest-raiding guilds, in 3-6 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is being closed for the moment, pending an internal discussion. In the meantime, people can find strategy stuff on StratFu or whatever you want to go to. I recognize the initial bosses aren't really a big deal, but my first thought is people should be trying them out for a reasonable amount of time before coming here asking for help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted this under the "Ulduar Posting Guildlines" sticky:

Now that Ulduar is live, it's time to revisit the posting guidelines. We're going to largely continue the guidelines that Gurgthock outlined for the PTR. No discussion about hard modes until they've been widely beaten. (If you think it's time to broach a topic and you're not sure, send one of us a PM and ask.) Absolutely no discussion about Algalon and Yogg-Saron until they've been widely beaten. Since people's definition of "widely" may vary, lets arbitrarily define it as 50 US kills OR 3 weeks after the first US kill, whichever one is later.

Feel free to start discussion on normal difficulty bosses (except Algalon/YS of course) immediately, but please don't start a topic unless you actually have a pertinent question to ask. This isn't Bosskillers or StratFu, you can get your basic rundown/overview of a boss elsewhere.

This thread is getting unlocked, but please don't turn this into a "Hey guys, we zoned into Ulduar tonight and cleared 3 bosses." Nor should it be a thread for discussion about specific bosses. Those belong in their own threads. Thanks!

[e] Updated to clarify the date, since Yogg's definitely been killed by more than 50 guilds. Discussion on Yogg can open up on May 5th.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Razorscale and Ignis are entirely optional.

I recall on the PTR when we killed Iron Council a door opened behind them. What's back there? Thorim?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, it's the Archivum- interior quest hub for Algalon and Val'anyr related stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone figured out what triggers the bug of Ignis running off to grab someone for the slag pot and instead meleeing them? Least I assume its going to grab them for the slag pot since looking at the logs there was nothing about slag pot just swing tank, swing random healer or ranged dps, swing tank all of these happening while the tank had a nice threat lead on any of those effected. Out of 6 times 5 times it was a healer(2xPally, 1xDisc, 1 Shammy and 1 Druid) and once it was a S. Hunter. Would be nice to know if there was a way to reduce this risk.Amazed this made it to live when it happened 6 times in 8 attempts and twice in the same attempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Has anyone figured out what triggers the bug of Ignis running off to grab someone for the slag pot and instead meleeing them? Least I assume its going to grab them for the slag pot since looking at the logs there was nothing about slag pot just swing tank, swing random healer or ranged dps, swing tank all of these happening while the tank had a nice threat lead on any of those effected. Out of 6 times 5 times it was a healer(2xPally, 1xDisc, 1 Shammy and 1 Druid) and once it was a S. Hunter. Would be nice to know if there was a way to reduce this risk.Amazed this made it to live when it happened 6 times in 8 attempts and twice in the same attempt.

From my experience, it's completely random... reminds of the good old days of Al'ar's charge-bug. It's a bit disapointing they can't seem to get the charge mechanic working right. Until there's a hotfix, praying his swing timer doesn't line up with the charge is your best bet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Flame levathian, maybe stupid question couse we might understood this boss wrong.

Does this boss on 'harder' modes work like Sartharion with 1-2 and 3 drakes? We tried to kill only tower of frost and the second one and when we tried Levathian we had all his 4 new abilities present.

I have some questions how people deal with razorscale, we practised quite a lot but due to not perfect raid setup we weren't able to kill him only in 25man. We definatly lacked some aoe power and i wonder about the enrage timer couse at the moment it's really hard to predict the enrage and we have yet to find it out.

How do you guys deal with aoe? We are more or less spread around the circle shape, 3 tanks grabing mobs from their drill and moving center with everyone aoe. We found way to kinda abuse the casters mechanics not letting them cast a single thing with using Fan of Knives and specing into throwing specialization and only thing you need to assist are the whirlwind mobs. I wonder if there are certain classes/specs/skills post 3.1 that could make phase1 easier and faster.

Edit: Typo -_-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some questions how people deal with razorgore, we practised quite a lot but due to not perfect raid setup we weren't able to kill him only in 25man. We definatly lacked some aoe power and i wonder about the enrage timer couse at the moment it's really hard to predict the enrage and we have yet to find it out.

Well there's your problem, you should be kiting all of the adds using the ramps on either end of the room as a way to escape your train.

@Ignis - The slag pot charge-gib is completely random.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just offering a fair warning, Kologarn's bridge currently isn't in the proper place, you need to cross at the shoulder plate otherwise you fall through and down into the pit below.

Edit: They appear to have hotfixed the bridge so it's model is in the right place now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Ignis - The slag pot charge-gib is completely random.

Finger's crossed this has been fixed.

"Ignis the Furnace Master should no longer melee attack the players he is picking up."

source: MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Recent In-Game Fixes - 4/15/09

We were having a few problems with the first Light Bomb cast after the Tympanic Tantrum on Deconstructor last night, the movement speed reduction causing havoc with getting to a safe distance without carving up people who are already on low health from the tantrum. We tried using HoF to try and remove the movement debuff on the target, but it doesn't appear to work. Is it simply a matter of spreading out better as the tantrum ends (we group up for the tantrum to allow for easier aoe healing) or are we missing something obvious?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did someone consider using Body and Soul from the Priest Holy Tree ? (+60% move speed for 4s when receiving Power Word: Shield)

It may help to flee the raid while Tympanic Tantrum is channeled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were having a few problems with the first Light Bomb cast after the Tympanic Tantrum on Deconstructor last night, the movement speed reduction causing havoc with getting to a safe distance without carving up people who are already on low health from the tantrum.

What we were playing with were two ranged groups forming a triangle essentially with the melee at the front point. The intention was for melee to run directly back when they get either bomb and ranged would either dart out slightly to the side or go to the center (if it's not occupied by a melee). I suppose we're a bit unorthodox if everyone else is spreading out as their basic raid setup; we just saw it as a modified extension of Solarian adds.

If you run with a Retribution Paladin (I'm naively assuming you probably do if we're talking 25-man), Divine Guardian + Divine Shield is a great way to mitigate raid healing during tantrums, and less healing needed tends to mean that everyone's going to pay closer attention. A Holy Paladin who doesn't care about timing his wings but is still DG specced can DG/DS the first tantrum and then time it during his cast to HoP/DG the third.

Edited for brevity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick thoughts:

- Flame Leviathan is joke without towers. I suggest 1-2 towers while going for first kill.

- Ignis is (was?) bugged doing random melee swings that one-shotted people every 5% or so. This should be hotfixed today but if you still getting this bug just skip him for later.

- XT-002 enrage timer is too low in normal mode (5min in 25). If with quite good kill (no deaths, no heals from bots, good dps) we hit enrage timer and barely killed him then I cannot see "lesser" guilds killing him at all - unless we did something really wrong in our tactic (and yes we did dps hearth like mad).

- We did Disarmed (which is part of meta) on Kologarn by quite accident. We just switched between right arm and corpus but by the end of fight left arm was on very low HP too so we finished it right after right arm (as it take away boss HP when die) and boss died.

- Auriaya is quite easy after you get rid of initial 4 panters. We just aoed them down with dropping loads of cooldowns on tank tanking them. Interrupting channeled shadow damage cast (forgot name) is pretty important along with tremor totems for tanks and healers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

XT-002 enrage is 6 minutes, not 5. It's still suprisingly difficult for such an early boss and was supposedly buffed from PTR. Which actually leads me to a question, at what ratio does heart transfer the damage to XT? Seeing Razorscale timer changed to 10 minutes, XT might be next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I'm seeing from attempts today you do double damage against the hearth, which also transfers over the boss. Pretty tightly tuned boss I must say, had like 20 seconds left on the enrage timer. If you don't have solid melee dps this fight will be a pain, as they will be doing the most damage since ranged will be having to pull off the boss to kill scrapbots.

Ignis is STILL bugged beyond belief, don't see how guilds are killing him when he's one shotting a raid member pratically everytime he slag pots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignis is STILL bugged beyond belief, don't see how guilds are killing him when he's one shotting a raid member pratically everytime he slag pots.

We did only get one pull on him yesterday before the instance servers went to pot on our realm, but that one pull we got him much further than the attempts we made on Tuesday (this is on 10-man, so perhaps not as applicable). Tuesday, it was a 50% chance of an insta-gib if you were picked to be slag-potted. Yesterday, we didn't have any insta-gibs, and overall raid damage was much more manageable. Now we may have gotten RNG-lucky, but given the stark difference between all 6 pulls on Tuesday and the one pull we did yesterday, I think he's at least killable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From what I'm seeing from attempts today you do double damage against the hearth, which also transfers over the boss. Pretty tightly tuned boss I must say, had like 20 seconds left on the enrage timer. If you don't have solid melee dps this fight will be a pain, as they will be doing the most damage since ranged will be having to pull off the boss to kill scrapbots.

You don't need solid *melee* DPS for XT-200. There's nothing stopping you from assigning only part of your ranged DPS to killing the bots, while the rest remains on the boss. Provided you have enough AoE-ranged to dispose of the bots effectively, the DPS-composition of your raid beyond that matters little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I saw yesterday, Deconstructor is difficult but not insurmountable. It's actually quite well tuned, which is a bit refreshing from Lich King content. I'm not too sure about the hard mode, though. It seems like resetting his health, plus a health boost, without resetting the enrage timer would be very difficult indeed.

We tried a few attempts at Ignis but it seemed quite buggy. We were also having a really hard time igniting the golems. Our tank couldn't manage to position them so that they would take fire damage without also soaking a few thousand dps/sec himself. I'm not sure if it's intended that he position them so they're in the fire and he isn't, or if the tank is supposed to just be healed through it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We tried a few attempts at Ignis but it seemed quite buggy. We were also having a really hard time igniting the golems. Our tank couldn't manage to position them so that they would take fire damage without also soaking a few thousand dps/sec himself. I'm not sure if it's intended that he position them so they're in the fire and he isn't, or if the tank is supposed to just be healed through it.

I agree, it's a shame that there's no other way to keep the golems in the fire. If only there was something you could do that allowed the tank to not stand in fire!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree, it's a shame that there's no other way to keep the golems in the fire. If only there was something you could do that allowed the tank to not stand in fire!

I have no idea if this is sarcastic or not, but I believe the golems are rootable. (They are on 10-man, but we all know things don't always apply upwards.) The problem we ran into was this: We would root a golem, it would start building stacks, but then the scorch would run out and we couldn't break it loose of the roots before it started losing debuffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had several Slag Pot gibs in our 10-man Ignis tries last night, which really put a crimp in our learning the fight. That aside, the timer between adds is pretty tight, and lacking a reliable root makes control pretty tough. We attempted to have the tank drag an add through the pit and tank at the edge, with the add in the fire and the tank out, but their hitbox is pretty small and the margin for error was almost nonexistent. I'm sure it'll be easier with more people capable of rooting in the group. On the tries without gibs, it became a matter of being overrun and having the add tank die to a bunch of pissed-off golems. Once the bug is fixed, this fight will still be a coordination check, but a far more doable one.

By comparison, Razorscale was quite fun, and well-tuned for an early boss. The only annoying aspect of the fight that I could see was that the entirety of Phase 1 amounts to potential Kel'thuzad ice tombs at any time. A combination of fireball + blue fireball + 1st tick was pretty much a death from full health within ~2-3 seconds, especially on a stationary healer. We got around it by moving as much as possible, but even normal consecutive fireballs on anyone with less than full health would frequently cause a death. Still, it's far more controllable than the Ignis pot of doom.

Also, on Ignis, can I safely assume it's intended that immunity effects used during the Slag Pot kill the debuff entirely? It appeared that Cloak of Shadows and Paladin bubble would remove the debuff and stop the incoming damage, though the person would still be stuck in the pot for the full duration. Also, voiding the debuff in this way indeed resulted in not getting the haste buff that follows, which would make sense.

One more observation: Fire resistance turns out to be very potent for controlling the damage spikes in these fights. The 130 from Paladin aura was predictably causing 10-30% resists on almost every fireball, slag pot tick, etc. I suspect it was chosen for these early fights to make abundant use of a damage type that didn't have stackable resistance gear readily available, so they could fill their role as gear/skill checks and not be trivialized via resistance. Most of the really nasty damage in both of these fights would be far less dramatic if you could get over 300 fire resist with 2 pieces of gear, a la Sapphiron. Granted, you could still use your leftover BT gear, but I doubt the severe loss of stats would be anywhere near worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We spent a couple hours on Ignis on Tuesday evening in an admittedly non-optimal group, but regardless took a nearly BiS Warrior Tank, a Druid tank, and a moderately geared DK (fresh 80 to replace our old DK Tank).

Although Ignis is being killed, we just felt that the outgoing damage from Ignis' white damage was not reasonable at that point because of the job required of the offtank, the Slag Pot, and the unavoidable AOE fire bursts. We had several attempts in which a tank with what, natural buffed HP of 39-40k would eat Ignis white hits for 30-40k, making the likelihood of a 2-shot very realistic. I saw some posts on the R&D forums where others experienced this so I hope we're not the only sane people out there seeing these hits.

I know about the golem buff bug which was supposedly fixed, but we didn't even get any golems down as he would spawn up to 3 of them in the first minute before the off-tank could get any molten.

For some reason I just feel that Ignis is perhaps a little overtuned in consideration of his position in the instance. Yes he's optional, but he's in the starting "wing" and I guess I might be a minority in thinking that this should be the wing that gets raids "feeling" a ramping Ulduar difficulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have no idea if this is sarcastic or not, but I believe the golems are rootable. (They are on 10-man, but we all know things don't always apply upwards.) The problem we ran into was this: We would root a golem, it would start building stacks, but then the scorch would run out and we couldn't break it loose of the roots before it started losing debuffs.

This was our difficulty as well. We were having a bit better luck with Chains of Ice over root, but it was still exceptionally difficult get 20 stacks. We'd get up to 19 constantly and then the scorch would end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to note that Yogg drops the same ilevel gear as the rest of the bosses in the instance. Looks like the discussion in the PTR thread was rather moot. This could mean an end to the system of clearing a whole instance and DEing all the drops just for a shot at the end boss loot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.