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Hamlet

Moonkin Beginner Guide (obsolete; use the TTT article now (in my sig))

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I personally have found that a Solar Eclipse generates better DPS for me.

The rotation I use is

Starfire until Eclipse procs then Wrath until the end of Eclipse then Starfire during Eclipse cooldown and continuing to cast Starfire until Eclipse procs again.

As far as the haste cap as it's been mentioned Wrath hits the GCD fully raid buffed around 400 Haste, but Starfire cannot be haste capped with the currently available gear (I think it's at around 5000 haste) so if you're using a Lunar Eclipse rotation then more haste is a good thing provided you don't give up too many other stats in acquiring it.

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Starfire until Eclipse procs then Wrath until the end of Eclipse then Starfire during Eclipse cooldown and continuing to cast Starfire until Eclipse procs again.

Why would you not continue to spam wrath until the Eclipse cooldown finishes?

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I'm not getting the same result in WrathCalcs though, and with WC, unlike Rawr, I know exactly what's going on internally. I think that in general (not just for the purposes of this post), we need much more solid theorycraft on Solar rotations. There's a lot of discussion on the all the other Moonkin threads on this forum, but very little math at the necessary level of detail.

I thought that the current version of the moonkin rawr module used the wrathcalcs calculations.

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I thought that the current version of the moonkin rawr module used the wrathcalcs calculations.

It seems pretty close (close enough that I've basically been using Rawr to work out my gear), but they don't return identical numbers. I've also been doing a lot of tinkering with WC model for a few days.

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It seems that WC still doesn't model trinkets though whereas rawr is for the most part. That might be part of the discrepancy. That and it doesn't use reaction time in its calculations, but if the queue system is in effect properly like they said way back in tbc reaction time shouldn't really matter all that much. At least that was my understanding of it.

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Rawr uses the WrathCalcs formulas for its internal calculations. I did change some of the math with regard to treants, so there will be a discrepancy there, as well as calculating trinkets on a per-cycle basis using some really fun math.

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It seems that WC still doesn't model trinkets though whereas rawr is for the most part. That might be part of the discrepancy. That and it doesn't use reaction time in its calculations, but if the queue system is in effect properly like they said way back in tbc reaction time shouldn't really matter all that much. At least that was my understanding of it.

The queue system doesn't work for instants or hasted wraths that take less than 1s to cast.

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It seems that WC still doesn't model trinkets though whereas rawr is for the most part. That might be part of the discrepancy. That and it doesn't use reaction time in its calculations, but if the queue system is in effect properly like they said way back in tbc reaction time shouldn't really matter all that much. At least that was my understanding of it.

First part true, second part not. WC doesn't calc trinkets because they're a huge pain to try and work out, and because I want to stay away from the huge gearlists that came up in Efejel's sheet. As a rule of thumb, WC is great for general theorycrafting/proving ideas because it's incredibly easy to modify. Rawr is better for getting the specifics, as you can use actual gear. Second part, WC has reaction time in its current iteration, though I can't remember if it's the only iteration where that's true. Probably.

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It might be worth mentioning that if your raid typically has either another boomkin who always casts FF (and is specced with 3/3 improved FF) and/or a shadow priest you can completely ignore FF in your speccing. Personally, I typically raid with a SP as well as another boomkin who has improved FF, so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

My off spec is actually the same thing as my main with improved FF in case of emergency.

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so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

... Because 1% crit per point means it isn't a DPS increasing talent?

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It might be worth mentioning that if your raid typically has either another boomkin who always casts FF (and is specced with 3/3 improved FF) and/or a shadow priest you can completely ignore FF in your speccing. Personally, I typically raid with a SP as well as another boomkin who has improved FF, so I have been able to ditch the improved faerie fire and just focus more on DPS increase talents (Imp IS or Brambles).

My off spec is actually the same thing as my main with improved FF in case of emergency.

No. Brain before posting, even just a little. iFF is 3% crit to all of your spells any time an FF is up. If you have a feral tank, they'll put it up. If you have a feral DPS, they'll put it up. If you have another moonkin and no Spriest, one of you will put it up. In fact the only reason that FF wouldn't be up is if your only other Druids in the raid are Trees, and you have a different class putting up the 5% armor debuff (CoW or Sting from a Wasp). Otherwise, you should be putting it up anyway, because that 5% armor is a great raid debuff. And even then, if all the raid debuff slots are covered, you should STILL put it up because 3% crit personally is worth spending a GCD every 5 minutes.

And 3% crit to all spells is just plain better than iIS, or Brambles, or any of the other "filler" talents after you've gotten all the necessary ones.

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If there is a moonkin in the raid putting up IFF and a feral putting up FFF and no shadow priest, will there still be a +hit debuff? I assume (or hope) the way that it works now is that both actually go up on the boss but the stronger of the two (IFF) provides a benefit. I come to this conclusion from the fact that FFF is castable at all while IFF is up.

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If there is a moonkin in the raid putting up IFF and a feral putting up FFF and no shadow priest, will there still be a +hit debuff? I assume (or hope) the way that it works now is that both actually go up on the boss but the stronger of the two (IFF) provides a benefit. I come to this conclusion from the fact that FFF is castable at all while IFF is up.

FFF has two components to it, a small damage effect on cast so that it can generate threat, and the debuff. They only recently unlinked these to allow ferals to cast FFF while iFF was up, but yes. Your iFF will stay on the target even if you have a feral using FFF in their rotation.

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Why would you not continue to spam wrath until the Eclipse cooldown finishes?

I can't speak for SolanisRWO, but I refresh MF and IS after the solar eclipse ends. Since I've glyphed for starfire, I can pretty much "carry" the MF through to solar eclipse proc by spamming SF (12s duration + 9s added by SF = 21s, or 6s > eclipse CD). I've also glyphed MF, so it's the extra ticks that really provide the DPS boost for me (vs. the initial cast).

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No. Brain before posting, even just a little. iFF is 3% crit to all of your spells any time an FF is up. If you have a feral tank, they'll put it up. If you have a feral DPS, they'll put it up. If you have another moonkin and no Spriest, one of you will put it up. In fact the only reason that FF wouldn't be up is if your only other Druids in the raid are Trees, and you have a different class putting up the 5% armor debuff (CoW or Sting from a Wasp). Otherwise, you should be putting it up anyway, because that 5% armor is a great raid debuff. And even then, if all the raid debuff slots are covered, you should STILL put it up because 3% crit personally is worth spending a GCD every 5 minutes.

And 3% crit to all spells is just plain better than iIS, or Brambles, or any of the other "filler" talents after you've gotten all the necessary ones.

My bad. I see what you are saying. I was falsely thinking the improved FF just affected hit for some reason. I forgot about the crit. So basically:

Imp FF > Imp IS > Brambles...right?

I will be changing my spec to reflect this. I had basically always learned that if someone else was FF'ing, then you didn't have to be. However, 3% crit is obviously still worth it to be FF'ing even if a SP is covering the hit via misery. Thanks for the info.

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Why would you not continue to spam wrath until the Eclipse cooldown finishes?

Because wrath sucks for mana, and is only really worth spamming during the eclipse phase. Besides, if you're a stickler for always hitting the right eclipse, then cast a wrath or 2 too many during CD and accidentally proc a lunar eclipse... that's no good. Also casting a few SF's increases the length of your moonfire (assuming it's glyphed) which will increase your damage as well.

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One small issue I see with the first post - brambles now only increases the damage of thorns cast upon yourself. I run brambles in my pvp spec and while my thorns returns ~370 damage everytime I am hit, the thorns on my DK only returns ~200.

I have no clue when/why this disconnect in thorns damage appeared but I am just letting everyone else know.

Brambles is still a reasonable DPS choice due to the increase in treant damage but you shouldn't apply the increased thorns damage into your calculations to see if it is worth picking up.

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Are you sure the mob hitting you proccing Thorns didn't have debuffs increasing spell damage? Everything i've tested shows Thorns increasing in damage on targets I cast it on.

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Minor update to the summary post, but the [item]Idol of the Shooting Star[/item] is 25 [item]Emblem of Valor[/item], not 15.

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I know this is going to sound like a really noobish question, but when i cast IFF on a target it seem the tooltip doesn't show the increased hit% to the target. I've played a mookin off and on for a while know and he's only been 80 for about a month. I'm just hoping that it wasn't nerfed or i missed it being taken out somewhere.

thanks in advance

I must say i am thoroughly impressed with all the moonkin and wanted to say thanks to all who contribute. i have found alot of helpful talents, rotations, stat priotities and ideals from all who contribute.

Yes I have 2 mains my BM Hunter and my Druid Ulardon, just in case someone was gonna check me out on the armory :)

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I really appreciate the thread for beginner boomkins. I have modeled my spell rotation after your suggestions, but I have a question...I have done most everything that you have suggested, with the exception of maxing out my gems for +hit. Would you please take a look at my gear and see if you can figure out what changes I can make to improve my dps? I seem to be stuck in the 1.7-1.9 dps category and feel like I should be able to hit 2.0 with my type of gear. Any suggestions/ criticism would be greatly appreciate.

The World of Warcraft Armory

My spell rotation is

The Eclipse Rotation

You will generally operate in a three-step cycle.

1) Pre-eclipse. Cast Wrath until the Eclipse buff appears (have some mod that will make it very obvious when you gain the buff).

2) Eclipse. When you see the buff, finish casting your current Wrath and then cast Starfire for the duration of Eclipse. Note that a Starfire only gains the benefit if it is fully completed while the Eclipse buff is up, so if you only have time for a partial cast, your Eclipse is effectively over (and you'll typically refresh some DoTs here, see below).

3) Post-Eclipse. When Eclipse fades, cast Starfire for the duration of the Eclipse cooldown (you should have a mod to show you the duration of the cooldown). This is also the part of the cycle where you most prefer to cast any spells that are not Wrath or Starfire.

Roughly 1.5 seconds before the Eclipse cooldown ends, begin casting Wrath again. The goal is to have the Wraths start hitting the boss as soon as the cooldown ends, restarting the pre-Eclipse phase of the cycle.

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I really appreciate the thread for beginner boomkins. I have modeled my spell rotation after your suggestions, but I have a question...I have done most everything that you have suggested, with the exception of maxing out my gems for +hit. Would you please take a look at my gear and see if you can figure out what changes I can make to improve my dps? I seem to be stuck in the 1.7-1.9 dps category and feel like I should be able to hit 2.0 with my type of gear. Any suggestions/ criticism would be greatly appreciate.

You're in Feral gear. If you can't get to 4k dps, you're doing something terribly far from this guide. The rotation you stated, are you not using any DoT's? Are you not getting sufficient raid buffs?

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Thank you for the guide Arawethion

In the talents part, you dont talk of owlkin frenzy.

A quick comparison:

IIS, considering 80% uptime for the dots, and 80% cast time passed on starfire and wrath (that left 6seconds on 30 seconds to cast the dots, starfall, some mouvement), so it seems close to 1*0.8*0.8=0.64% increse dps by talent point

Brambles,

force of nature considerins uptime 25seconds every 3min, my treant do 1.2kdps without bloodlust, 1.7kdps with.

1200*25/180*0.15=25dps(0.5% of my dps)

1700*25/180/0.15=35.41dps(0.7% of my dps)

Thorns: taken from ignis, 1 physical hit every 2.88s

50% hit on our feral druid

base damage of thorns (assume 230 damage)

230/(2.88*2)=40dps

0.75*40=30dps thats 0.6% of my dps. Could be 50% higher if you take into account the others off tank. So lets say 0.9%

So 0.6% for fon 0.9% for thorns, this is 1.5% increse dps for 3 points, 0.5% dps by point.

Gale winds: a strong talent if you use aoe. But i think there is few fight when this can be a big difference (maybe thorim in the arena, freya, i dont know for yogg saron).

Hurricane: a talent that can be useful on fight when you have to move a lot, as it is one of the few skill that we can use to dps in movement.

Owlkin frenzy: Dependant on how many time you are hit in an encounter of course, still we can do an average for any fight on ulduar. I will assume a hit every 10-20-30 seconds.

10seconds: 0.15 to inc damage by 10% for 10secs, it is +500dps for 10secs, so it is 75dps.

20seconds: 75/2=35dps

30seconds:75/3=25dps

so worth +1.5%dps for 3 points, 0.5%dps by point. You can divide that by 2 or 3 for 20-30seconds (0.25 to 0.17%)

So in the end owlkin frenzy appear close on an average on a hit every 10 seconds.

Some wws of me (no hard mode, r25)

kologarn: 1 hit every 13seconds

hodir: 1hit every 3 seconds (on this fight, owlkin is better than a lot of dps talent)

xt: 1hit every 13seconds

ignis: 1hits every 24seconds

thorim:0hits

mimiron:1hits every 13.6seconds

no data for freya

I also not have been taken into account the fact that you have no pushback when spell casting, altough it will have a limited effect on starfire because of celestial focus, it will have a more strong effect on wrath since no one should take nature’s focus

So after all of that, its a matter of choice, of course iis is probably the better, brambles is mostly dependant of thorns, and of the number of tank that will be hit.

But owlkin is also a choice that should be considered, especially good on fight with raid damage.

Hope that will help some.

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