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Hamlet

Moonkin TTT Article pre-publish draft

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A great article, but I agree with erdluf. It needs an introduction saying it's for moonkin raiding.

Sorry to ask, but I've been searching for ages now and still can't find anything on Moonkin PVP anywhere. Can anyone link me to a good thread? Help is greatly appreciated.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion by hi-ranked Moonkin.

Best recent discussion I've seen was on US Blizz forum.

EJ has a PvP forum, but you won't see much Balance talk there.

Themoonkinrepository.com has a PvP Forum with some signs of life. It has been a while since I've looked there.

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45.9 crit rating gives 1% to crit. With Vengeance and a Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, crits with our main nukes do 2.09 times the damage of non crits.

Can you elaborate a bit on how this formula looks? For it to fit the measured 1.545 damage multiplier without vengeance and 2.09 with vengeance, I seem to end up with a formula that looks way too complex to make sense.

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Crits usually do 50% Bonus Damage, or 1.5 [item]Chaotic Skyflare Diamond[/item] increases this by 3% so you do 1.5 * 1.03 = 1.545

Vengeance doubles the Bonus Damage (.545) so 2 * .545 = 1.09 additional, or 2.09 total.

The Logic is a bit off, one would expect the meta to apply after vengeance (thus 2 * 1.03 = 2.06), but with testing we can see that it's prior.

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Excelent post, have not read it all yet but definitly will finish reading through it after work !

Would like to ad one thing I saw so far,

you wrote:

[iTEM][Glyph of the Wild][/iTEM] can save a tiny bit of mana if you ever have to rebuff people during a fight.

This glyph is extremly usefull in mana intensive fights with aoe, when you cast gift of the wild on your raid it has 25 chances to proc clearcasting of omen of clarity, which is pretty much a 100% chance to proc clearcasting

This means that instead of spending 81% of your base mana on a hurricane you only spend 32% of your base mana on Gift of the wild to proc clearcast and cast a free hurricane

Hope this was usefull, will see if I can ad anything else after I have read the post through :)

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Very good post, very good for refreshing up on numbers one should know, but can't remember. :)

Anyways, I thought I'd just come with a small suggestion, and that is to add a small note about stacking trinkets and hurricane.

Back some time before Ulduar, Hurricane stacked up my Illustration of the Dragon Soul, but it doesn't do that anymore. What I find useful is to use a GCD on insect swarm or equivalent to keep that stack up in for the added spell power during AoE. The same issue is found with Eye of the Broodmother, and I'm using both of those, making it even a bigger issue for me to not let them drop.

Just a tip, I don't know if it is worth adding something this item specific.

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Very good post, very good for refreshing up on numbers one should know, but can't remember. :)

Anyways, I thought I'd just come with a small suggestion, and that is to add a small note about stacking trinkets and hurricane.

Back some time before Ulduar, Hurricane stacked up my Illustration of the Dragon Soul, but it doesn't do that anymore. What I find useful is to use a GCD on insect swarm or equivalent to keep that stack up in for the added spell power during AoE. The same issue is found with Eye of the Broodmother, and I'm using both of those, making it even a bigger issue for me to not let them drop.

Just a tip, I don't know if it is worth adding something this item specific.

Hurricane was fixed in 3.2 to refresh/add a single stack of these trinkets when you cast it.

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This glyph is extremly usefull in mana intensive fights with aoe, when you cast gift of the wild on your raid it has 25 chances to proc clearcasting of omen of clarity, which is pretty much a 100% chance to proc clearcasting

This means that instead of spending 81% of your base mana on a hurricane you only spend 32% of your base mana on Gift of the wild to proc clearcast and cast a free hurricane

Hope this was usefull, will see if I can ad anything else after I have read the post through :)

Very nice, thanks a lot :)

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Hurricane was fixed in 3.2 to refresh/add a single stack of these trinkets when you cast it.

Woops, wasn't aware of that. Can't say there are many AoE fights in ToC, so I guess I've just not found out yet.

I just remember it stacked on hurricane, and that was awesome.

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In your description of haste, you say that we should aim for 401 haste rating to be at soft cap. Are you taking into consideration the 3% haste from Imp Moonkin Form? Just wondering.

Thanks!

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The link to the core-specc doesn't work any longer since mmo-champion changed their talent-calculator to shorten the URLs.

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Fixed a few minor things. This will probably be on the TTT forum soon.

I might not be doing too much more with this for a little while--I just joined a new guild and am playing mostly Resto. I'll probably try to keep it up to date, which shouldn't be too much work since I don't foresee anything game-changing between now and Cataclysm.

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Of course, as soon I post that I think of something kind of interesting. I'm pretty sure Glyph of Starfall isn't worth it even in an AoE-heavy situation.

A Starfall with one target in range drops 10 stars in 10 seconds; a Starfall with more than one target in range drops 20 stars in 10 seconds. As a brief test, I tried doubling the damage output of Starfall in the spreadsheet and it still came out below Glyph of Insect Swarm. So it seems that even in an ideal situation where there are multiple targets available every time Starfall comes off cooldown, the Glyph isn't worthwhile.

This is a slight underestimate since you might gain some splash damage against many targets. But on the other hand, most multi-target situations allow for multi-dotting, which increases the value of Glyph of IS far more anyway.

In short, those of you who had been using Glyph of Starfall in the first place (though I hadn't recommended it for a while) probably shouldn't bother.

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Interesting point Arawethion. I had watch the Paragon video of the Anub kill. I don't know if you watched the fight but they tanked the four adds and the boss next to each other (essentially 5 targets) and aoe-ed them down.

I was just thinking about how in such an encounter if using the two gylphs on starfall, gale winds and hurricane would be benefical. But as I understand it when my guild reaches that encounter, I should try to IS the five targets and then use hurricane w/ gale winds?

You mentioned two targets but I wondered if your analysis considered 5 or if the point was irrelevent b/c the damage just doesn't scale well with starfall w/ glyphs.

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I was purely comparing Glyphs there, not commenting on ideal AoE rotations.

AoE situations are all slightly different--if you're trying to completely optimize DPS at a progression encounter, I'd check the damage done by each of your spells in the spreadsheet and use that to plan out an ideal sequence (remember assumption made about debuffs).

We're not supposed to talk about Heroic Anub yet so I'll only speak generally--5 mobs lasting more than a few seconds each. If had to guess at the right rotation, it would be pure Hurricane spam, not tab-IS. Maybe with a Moonfire cast periodically to proc the Idol and hope for a NG for your Hurricane, that's an interesting option.

If it turns out that you're using IS very little during the DPS-senstive part of the fight, you might use Glyph of Starfall. The big benefit is two NG'd Hurricanes from each Starfall. But again, use what you know about the fight to plan it out exactly--how long is the phase and how many Starfalls will you get, how often are you dotting the boss between add spawns, etc.--and compute what's better.

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so i was wondering if you have t8 4 piece or t9 2 piece would consistantly keeping up the dots all the time be benificial and tip the scale in the favor of throwing them in before they drop in a eclipse cycle?

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I was purely comparing Glyphs there, not commenting on ideal AoE rotations.

AoE situations are all slightly different--if you're trying to completely optimize DPS at a progression encounter, I'd check the damage done by each of your spells in the spreadsheet and use that to plan out an ideal sequence (remember assumption made about debuffs).

We're not supposed to talk about Heroic Anub yet so I'll only speak generally--5 mobs lasting more than a few seconds each. If had to guess at the right rotation, it would be pure Hurricane spam, not tab-IS. Maybe with a Moonfire cast periodically to proc the Idol and hope for a NG for your Hurricane, that's an interesting option.

If it turns out that you're using IS very little during the DPS-senstive part of the fight, you might use Glyph of Starfall. The big benefit is two NG'd Hurricanes from each Starfall. But again, use what you know about the fight to plan it out exactly--how long is the phase and how many Starfalls will you get, how often are you dotting the boss between add spawns, etc.--and compute what's better.

Clarification apprecaited and I apologize. The H-Anub was meant as an example in understanding the mechanics of starfall w/ glyphs and to better understand the point of the double damage scaling of starfall that was mentioned. My purpose wasn't to derail the thread into a HAnub strat for moonkins.

Also I don't know if it is worth mentioning. I know most here are Squawk & Awe lovers, but since you mentioned Quartz in your article. It seems appropriate. Quartz has an eclipse module for moonkins. While I haven't used S&A in a while so I can't make a point for point comparison but I can say that I have no issues tracking my procs, dots and CDs with it. So those more comfortable with Quartz might prefer or want to try it.

Quartz: Eclipse Module - Addons - Curse

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Awesome write up, I took a long vacation from WoW, but came back a few weeks ago. My gear was mostly Naxx25 with a few Ulduar 25 Hardmode pieces. Being the only raiding moonkin in my guild means that I am welcome into most raids for my 5% crit bonus even though I was/am undergeared a bit. So in my quest to make my dps formidable once again, I really like this article. ;)

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Is this the correct link for WiseEclipse?

4shared.com - online file sharing and storage - download WiseEclipsev1.0.1.rar

Also, I gave the code a quick scan--looks like it's just my macro, but triggering on UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED. Which is good--I think that's exactly what we want. Will add it in.

This is a very interesting addon, that I would love to try. However, I have an issue with the source.

I am not saying either of you guys are Keyloggers or wrote anything malicious into the code, but I don't know that I can be 100% sure this addon is safe. It is my understanding that Curse Gaming and WoWInterface reviews addons submitted to them so that users can download them comfortably.

Just for security of mind for my readers and myself, could one of you guys submit this addon to Curse and/or WoWInterface?

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This is a very interesting addon, that I would love to try. However, I have an issue with the source.

I am not saying either of you guys are Keyloggers or wrote anything malicious into the code, but I don't know that I can be 100% sure this addon is safe. It is my understanding that Curse Gaming and WoWInterface reviews addons submitted to them so that users can download them comfortably.

Just for security of mind for my readers and myself, could one of you guys submit this addon to Curse and/or WoWInterface?

It's hard to do much malicious with addons since they run in a protected environment using an API provided with the WoW client. I'm pretty sure all Curse/WI do is make sure their downloads contain only addon files and not things like .exe's. Anyway, you can look at the source yourself, it's very short.

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It's hard to do much malicious with addons since they run in a protected environment using an API provided with the WoW client. I'm pretty sure all Curse/WI do is make sure their downloads contain only addon files and not things like .exe's. Anyway, you can look at the source yourself, it's very short.

I'm sure what you say is true, but the format in which this addon is being presented is unusual. That sets off alarm bells when even the most careful of people are getting hacked.

I am not a technology professional. I don't know the website 4shared.com. I don't know what the file extention .rar means. I might be able to understand the source code, but I'm not a programmer of any sort, so it is far form certain.

If I'm understanding what this addon does correctly, then it is a big boost to moonkin. I just would like it presented in a way that some players aren't thrown off by its unusual distribution.

Either way, I will test it tonight, and post something on my blog about it tomorrow.

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I'm sure what you say is true, but the format in which this addon is being presented is unusual. That sets off alarm bells when even the most careful of people are getting hacked.

I am not a technology professional. I don't know the website 4shared.com. I don't know what the file extention .rar means. I might be able to understand the source code, but I'm not a programmer of any sort, so it is far form certain.

If I'm understanding what this addon does correctly, then it is a big boost to moonkin. I just would like it presented in a way that some players aren't thrown off by its unusual distribution.

Either way, I will test it tonight, and post something on my blog about it tomorrow.

Gray: a.) You can trust Hamlet not to give you malicious code. b.) Unless it's an executable file, nothing's going to go wrong anyway. .rar is the extension WinRar uses to zip up files, it's just another file compression mechanism (which, by the way, you will need to install WinRar to open it). Inside will be the files you'd normally expect for an addon. I'm not sure why it's not being hosted on Curse or WoWI (actually, I'm also not sure that it's not there, too. It may just be easier to link to a different file host for Hamlet).

I would be worried about making the addon too public, though, at least if it does what it proclaims to - i.e. allowing you to, for a short period, have both the Lunar Eclipse 45% crit buff and the ability to proc Solar Eclipse. That's very likely unintended, and if people are using the mod to do it, Blizzard will fix it. Not that it would become as "required" of a mod as SAA was, as the benefit isn't nearly the same scale as always knowing when Eclipse was coming off ICD, but Blizzard doesn't like people intentionally reproducing unintended behavior.

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Gray: a.) You can trust Hamlet not to give you malicious code. b.) Unless it's an executable file, nothing's going to go wrong anyway. .rar is the extension WinRar uses to zip up files, it's just another file compression mechanism (which, by the way, you will need to install WinRar to open it). Inside will be the files you'd normally expect for an addon. I'm not sure why it's not being hosted on Curse or WoWI (actually, I'm also not sure that it's not there, too. It may just be easier to link to a different file host for Hamlet).

I would be worried about making the addon too public, though, at least if it does what it proclaims to - i.e. allowing you to, for a short period, have both the Lunar Eclipse 45% crit buff and the ability to proc Solar Eclipse. That's very likely unintended, and if people are using the mod to do it, Blizzard will fix it. Not that it would become as "required" of a mod as SAA was, as the benefit isn't nearly the same scale as always knowing when Eclipse was coming off ICD, but Blizzard doesn't like people intentionally reproducing unintended behavior.

The guy who wrote the addon is earlier on this thread--he can host it there if he wants. It probably would help get it out to people more; it's kind of obscure now.

If it gets changed, it gets changed. I'm not sure it's all that likely, though. The basic mechanic at heart (delay between crit computation and arrival) is the same as with Shatter combos, which Blizzard has talked about many times and isn't planning to fix.

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Gray: a.) You can trust Hamlet not to give you malicious code. b.) Unless it's an executable file, nothing's going to go wrong anyway. .rar is the extension WinRar uses to zip up files, it's just another file compression mechanism (which, by the way, you will need to install WinRar to open it). Inside will be the files you'd normally expect for an addon. I'm not sure why it's not being hosted on Curse or WoWI (actually, I'm also not sure that it's not there, too. It may just be easier to link to a different file host for Hamlet).

I would be worried about making the addon too public, though, at least if it does what it proclaims to - i.e. allowing you to, for a short period, have both the Lunar Eclipse 45% crit buff and the ability to proc Solar Eclipse. That's very likely unintended, and if people are using the mod to do it, Blizzard will fix it. Not that it would become as "required" of a mod as SAA was, as the benefit isn't nearly the same scale as always knowing when Eclipse was coming off ICD, but Blizzard doesn't like people intentionally reproducing unintended behavior.

My first post in this thread came off a little harsher then I intended.

Just for the record, I am not trying to call Hamlet's charicter into question in anyway. He has obviously done a lot for the moonkin community and I trust his comments. His reputation is exactly why I am willing to download and try the addon out tonight.

I am also not trying to say anything bad about Copialinex. I don't know him, but in general I think the chance that an addon is malicious is pretty low.

My point was that this addon sounds like a great tool that many people will be interested in. However, the manner it is presented in will give some people pause. A site like Curse or WoWInterface will do better for its distribution.

That said, I understand why you don't want to post it Hamlet, since you didn't create the actual addon.

Regarding making this addon too public:

If Blizzard reads my blog from time to time you can be sure they read EJ a lot more. So, I assume that if they don't know about the addon now they will find out about it soon.

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Regarding making this addon too public:

If Blizzard reads my blog from time to time you can be sure they read EJ a lot more. So, I assume that if they don't know about the addon now they will find out about it soon.

Eh, I was referring more to the proliferation of use than the visibility. I'm sure that even if Blizzard knows about the addon (which they probably do), they couldn't care less if 1% of the Moonkin population uses it. EJ's very much not the best way to distribute an addon, and while Blizzard may know about it it's unlikely that a major portion of the Moonkin community do (publishing the TTT article would definitely increase its visibility, though). Post a link to it on a blog that has confirmed blue readership, and it'll likely catch on fairly quickly. Same if it's hosted on a site like Curse, where you can search for "Moonkin Addons" and get a hit on it.

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