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Forcewinder

Twin Emperors

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We just pick a healer on each side who understands where to stand, stick an icon over thier head, and just tell the rest of the healers to hug them. I don't think I've been hit with Blizzard since we started doing this.

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Just to poke a point of curiosity - how do feral druid tanks fare in place of warriors?

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It's possible with druids..and it's been done, even or a few first time kills, but I believe the druids that have done so, have all said that they were not the best choice, requiring substantially more mana to keep alive (although, subjectively their healers said they were "easier to heal".. but that's purely based upon healer preference)

The interesting part is they don't take any crits after unbalancing stike.. with that low defence, 100% of the hits are crushing blows and this pushes crits off the table.

That 1 point in improved shield block makes a nice difference after unbalancing strike, and is probably the clincher in the warrior > druid for this fight in particular.

If you have a dedicated feral druid.. throw them on bug tanking.. 15s feral charge can be quite useful here at times.

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Some suggestions to try :

1) Imp demo shout is great if you can get it off without neutral bugs getting out of control. Its a bit more than 200 less per normal melee and 800 per unbalancing strike. Course hunters will start using multishot if you use it.

2) Thunderclap is nice at same time as imp demo shout since Thunderfury aggro's neutral bugs. Again this will cause your hunters to multi-shot.

3) Avoidance gear is nice. Don't go all out but things like Pauldrons of the unrelenting, belt of might etc give your healers a break every time you dodge. Juju escape can be timed since unbalancing strike is about once every ten seconds. Grace of air if you are horde. Agility pots etc as well on tanks.

4) Have tanks only ever use shield block after an unbalancing strike since it negates crits and crushing blows for the next 2 attacks (assuming imp shield block).

5) The main tank should never get an uppercut. Uppercut priority seems to be - people hitting vek'nilash in range, people not hitting vek'nilash in range and lastly vek'nilashes current target. We have an "uppercut bitch" wait till the teleport and then head to other side. Rogues should be in range immediately after teleport to cover quick uppercut. DPS warriors can use intercept as soon as he teleports (if that person has say Ashkandi and sword spec get them to cancel autoattack for bad luck bit crit and sword spec)

6) I can't imagine doing it with only warrior tanks. We transfer straight to warlocks. Get 1-2 bad transfers per fight but this seems a hell of a lot easier than a warrior spamming battleshout.

Good luck on it.

My guild doesn't use number 1-2 cos we are nubs.

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Not all that unique when many guilds having been doing it that way for months :P

Anyway, when we were learing twins (a few weeks before cthun became killable) we first tried with warlocks, healing was quite light overall in what was needed, but the transitions frequently went badly wrong. Veklor would run around alot, forcing the warlock tank (and often the healers on that side) to move alot too. These moves combined with blizzards and/or bugs were our major problem. So we quickly and easily removed both problems by using a warrior. The two warriors (one each side) stand back to wall pretty much directly under the lanterns. They never move, and they (pretty much :P) never die. Having a static tank position is great as is the purely awful dps veklor puts out in melee, the exlosion is rare, bolts infrequent and his melee attacks are weak. I can understand guilds using warlock tanks as its 'cool' and lets you dps veklor aswell, but as to why some have warriors tank at range eating shadowbolts I will never understand, its so much more damage to heal than the other 2 methods.

So, just as I do each time a twins thread comes around, I advocate you use warrior tanks for both emps, tank both in melee, and collect your free loot.

It sounds to me like when you tried Warlock tanking, you had less than ideal positioning. Every problem you've identified can be fixed with better positioning of tanks and healers.

I actually tank Vek'lor across the room from the tank-only healers, over by the stairs where the bosses are pulled from. I have one priest with exceptional mana regen who stays with me, who also runs into range to heal the warrior on my side when Vek'nilash is on my side of the room. We also have mid-room Paladins who spot heal people fighting bugs, but stay in range of tanks just in case.

Any movements Vek'lor makes toward me put more space between him and Vek'nilash, so they never will get close enough to each other to heal. Also, if you run away from him when he charges, he'll stop to Shadowbolt quickly. My Warrior can pull Vek'nilash back to a better position after the port, and due to the arrangement of healers, he has healing coverage without forcing very many healers to move.

Vek'lor is only doing ~1000 to me every 1.6 seconds (Curse of Tongues works and makes healing trivially easy) and tank healers get plenty of time to regen. Since Vek'lor is actively being tanked this way, we load him up with dots and this extra DPS sped up our TE kills considerably.

Using Warlocks is more than just a "cool" thing to do. Set up correctly and the fight is very easy.

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Warrior tanks aren't exactly hard to keep up against Vek'lor. Even at 3k a bolt half the MT healers can stand around regenning. Increasing the complexity of the fight to make the easy half easier has always seemed pointless to me.

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Vek'lor is only doing ~1000 to me every 1.6 seconds (Curse of Tongues works and makes healing trivially easy) and tank healers get plenty of time to regen. Since Vek'lor is actively being tanked this way, we load him up with dots and this extra DPS sped up our TE kills considerably.

Can anyone confirm that CoT works?

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Mana efficiency. You cannot heal through this fight spamming flash heal, and you cannot heal through this fight without canceling heals when required.

Yes you can :P

Every shaman and druid in my guild (I honestly have no idea what our priests do) just runs a low rank healing wave (our slow heal, and I have no idea what the druid one is called) and never cancels... the entire fight. You overheal quite a bit, but your raw heal is far above what it otherwise would be. I normally run oom with no consumables at 3-5%. It's a fun fight to compete on the healing meters for :P.

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We use 2 warriors and they have NEVER lost aggro to Vek'lor... We had one time when he like 4-5 secs before a teleport ran up to the tank, exploded him away and then another melee got tele-aggro.

Other then that oddity Warriors work great. (And i guess that oddity would have happed to a lock too...)

My basic thought as a raidleader allways was: Minimize things that can go wrong. Adding Warlocks taking aggro, risking problems with healing transition, risking blizzards on both war+warlock, risking charging (which happend alot when we tried lock-tanks) and such just seemed a waste. Our healers got no problem (mostly :p) keeping warriors up, so we stick by it.

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We use 2 warriors as well. Depending only on 2 people instead of 4 has simplified it a lot for us. Also since Veklor hits like a girl as our tanks put it, it's not too hard to heal the warrior against the bolts. The pull is done by a lock and a warrior and after the first teleport two warriors tank with proximity agro. Give frost protection pots to healers so they have some margin of error when blizzard hits them. This is one of the more fun fights for me out there.

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Warrior tanks aren't exactly hard to keep up against Vek'lor. Even at 3k a bolt half the MT healers can stand around regenning. Increasing the complexity of the fight to make the easy half easier has always seemed pointless to me.

If you only think of Vek'lor in a vacuum, you're right. But, allowing healers rest time makes Vek'nilash easier to last through, and the added DPS shortens the fight.

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Our guild is currently doing twin emps too and i have a couple of qn

1.Will totems cause the emp to cast blizzard?

I was in MT grp and thinking i might give the MT GoA and SoE totem for whatever minor advantage we could have

but my guildies told me totems are treated as another person and thus will cause the emp to cast blizzard.

2.If in the event you get hit by a blizzard,does it always damage you 3 times?

Even thou i ran out of the blizzard range after i got hit the first time i still get hit 2 more times.

answers will be appreciated

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So how do warriors keep aggro on Vek'lor? Does your caster DPS hit him at all? I was under the impression that physical abilities did not work on him, does that include sunder?

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So how do warriors keep aggro on Vek'lor? Does your caster DPS hit him at all? I was under the impression that physical abilities did not work on him, does that include sunder?

Battleshout hitting 5 people is actually not insignifncant aggro- using TA totems/salvation warriors can usually handle it. I don't belive they can sustain the aggro level required for casters to dps, but my guild simply could not get this strategy to work well/reliably, so perhaps it is well within tollerence to allow casters to dps lightly.

I -belive- the general rule of thumb is if you can't do it through a pally's BoP it doesn't work on him. As far as I know, this includes everything a warrior can do.

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