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Yellowsix

Team Robot Simulator and Gear Comparison Tool

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I ran a sim on Mr. Robot with my gear and quickly realized that my Gargoyle is critting when Gargoyle Strike can't crit.

Yes -- I have fixed this in the beta version, which I will be posting to the main version in the near future. I took a short break from doing updates because the website was entered into a competition, but the competition is over now, so regular updates will resume later this week.

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Hi there, really nice sim I must say :) (and being a .net/silverlight-developer myself I'm happy to see good uses of it).

I found one way for getting socket bonuses from items though.

Take for example the xml you get from wowhead.com on let's say Dual-blade Butcher (to get xml back you just append &xml to the end of the url).

In the node "jsonEquip" there's an entry with the key "socketbonus" and the value is an enchantId.

Now to the tricky part. You basically have to save that huge table of id's/values as some kind of dictionary and parse it in some clever way, or find some css-selector-like library for silverlight and do it on the fly.

Would be really nice to get socket bonuses even though I see how much work it would be to get it working :)

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That's pretty interesting phete -- I might give that a shot. Thanks for the tip. Looking at the xml, it seems like the thing to do would be to find e.g. "Socket Bonus: +6 Strength" in the htmlTooltip section, then map that to the ID 3357. Then run through my item lists and tack the socket bonus ID onto each item.

A sidenote: I'll be updating the simulator this weekend with 3.3 DK information, a few new features, updated gear lists, and updated estimated DPS values for items.

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That's pretty interesting phete -- I might give that a shot. Thanks for the tip. Looking at the xml, it seems like the thing to do would be to find e.g. "Socket Bonus: +6 Strength" in the htmlTooltip section, then map that to the ID 3357. Then run through my item lists and tack the socket bonus ID onto each item.

A sidenote: I'll be updating the simulator this weekend with 3.3 DK information, a few new features, updated gear lists, and updated estimated DPS values for items.

yea that enchantid info is probably nothing wowhead etc feels nessecary to open up an api for :) so parsing seems like the only option

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I have made some general updates to the Team Robot Simulator, and updated the DK module with the 3.3 changes. You can read the complete change log at:

WoW Simulator Change Log

I wanted to get the 3.3. changes in sooner, so a few features didn't make it in yet: most notably the socket bonuses need further testing, and will be in the next update.

A few of the features were direct responses to requests made here at EJ, such as the new Settings section that allows you to change the fight duration, number of runs, and adds an option to randomize the fight durations (only by a couple of seconds -- just enough to prevent haste from doing weird things at particular fight lengths). This option is turned off by default.

As always, take the estimated DPS/item rankings with a grain of salt: they are quick approximations based on a default talent/glyph setup. Always remember to press Simulate and run an actual simulation with your gear and build to get a more accurate result if the item lists look a little out of order.

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I give. I've been staring and staring and I realise I've probably missed it three times, but... Is there a button/section to output individual stat weights?

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No, there is not currently an option to output stat weights.

We have contemplated adding that feature to support some in-game mods that use stat weights, but, it is not high on the priority list. Finishing additional classes is our highest priority at the moment.

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If stat weights are something that people would like sooner rather than later, if someone wanted to give me the details of how that works, it would speed things along. I only know the general concept of stat weights (determine an equivalence for each stat to AP or something to that effect). If someone wanted to gather up the details of what I would need to output for mods that use stat weights and post it or PM me, I could probably implement it fairly quickly. Otherwise, it'll have to wait until I have time to research it myself.

Right now I am working on some of the other classes, and getting socket bonuses ironed out. I'm also comparing the output of the DK simulator to some recent combat logs of our fights, and making some adjustments to improve the simulator's accuracy.

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From what I understand the calculation for stat weights works something like this: Each stat is increased by a set amount (probably 10 or so) and then the simulations are run again. The DPS gain is recorded and divided by 10. From there, the stats are normalized (typically to attack power) and reported to the user.

There is probably a lot small tweaks you could make to the process; things like iterating over different stat increases (10, 20, 30 etc.) subtracting stats instead of adding them and so forth. It takes a fairly substantial amount of computing power and time to produce accurate stat weights, but they are probably the most useful part of any simulator.

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It takes a fairly substantial amount of computing power and time to produce accurate stat weights, but they are probably the most useful part of any simulator.

Stat weights have typically been the most useful part of simulators because it is cumbersome to enter all of the necessary information about your character in order to get the desired simulator output. Once you enter all that data, the simulator gives you stat weights that you can plug in to a simple in-game mod that can then give you fast estimates on whether items are upgrades or not.

Stat weights are only truly accurate for the exact set of conditions that you create them with. As soon as you change one piece of gear, those weights need to be recalculated for true accuracy.

On the Team Robot site, the estimates for the DPS on items are all pre-calculated over the full range of possible stat values. As soon as you change an item, all the estimates update automatically*. So, you really don't need to output any stat weights when using this simulator. The only reason you would need them is to interface with some of the existing in-game mods. We would like to support these mods eventually.

*We have worked hard to find a point at which the site can still run fairly quickly and also give reasonably good DPS estimates. In 98% of cases, the relative value of the items is correct, but there is still an item or two that will show up in the "wrong" order. You can always hit the simulate button to find out manually if an item is better or not. It would take an extreme amount of data points to achieve 100% accuracy over the full range of possible configurations, thus slowing the response of the site dramatically.

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You make a good point, I hadn't realized the extent to which you calculated the DPS values on items. It seems like you should be able to easily translate that data into a stat weighting system, but I'm not exactly sure how you calculate it and it might therefore be much harder than I think.

On a different topic, I've been running a bunch of sims lately and had a few remarks about Team Robot:

First, it seems like the damage on several attacks does not agree with what I notice on live and in my logs. This is mostly confined to Obliterate, where the damage reported by the sim and the damage reported in my logs differ by about 8%.

Furthermore, I've noticed that Frost Fever does not appear to be benefitting from Glyph of Icy Touch; on live its damage is ~20% more than Blood Plague's non-crits, while on the sim their values are roughly identical.

Finally, would it be at all possible to include an option that would force the target to be constantly diseased, in order to simulate the presence of multiple Death Knights in one raid? Such a condition allows for you to wait until your diseases fall off before refreshing them, something that is a DPS loss if there is noone else in the raid to maintain the Tundra Stalker etc. buff.

All things considered, this simulator appears to be the best one available at the time, I'm really impressed with what you've managed to do.

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First, it seems like the damage on several attacks does not agree with what I notice on live and in my logs. This is mostly confined to Obliterate, where the damage reported by the sim and the damage reported in my logs differ by about 8%.

Furthermore, I've noticed that Frost Fever does not appear to be benefitting from Glyph of Icy Touch; on live its damage is ~20% more than Blood Plague's non-crits, while on the sim their values are roughly identical.

Finally, would it be at all possible to include an option that would force the target to be constantly diseased, in order to simulate the presence of multiple Death Knights in one raid? Such a condition allows for you to wait until your diseases fall off before refreshing them, something that is a DPS loss if there is noone else in the raid to maintain the Tundra Stalker etc. buff.

- I'll check out obliterate: if you could give me a link to e.g. a saurfang world of logs (or your favorite log site) report, I can run some comparisons for your character and try to determine what would cause the differences.

- I have fixed the glyph of IT; I read it incorrectly and it was buffing IT instead of frost fever... oops.

- Ghouls were also hitting too hard: I have fixed that.

- I wasn't aware that you could get the benefit of tundra stalker (or rage of rivendare) from another DK's disease -- I'll put that on the to-do list and possibly add it as an option in the custom rotation UI for DKs.

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It looks like the Icy Touch glyph is outdated. When I load my character, it's still showing the old glyph (10 RP) as opposed to the new. This might be where the discrepancy in Frost Fever damage is coming from that Darkside is seeing.

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- I'll check out obliterate: if you could give me a link to e.g. a saurfang world of logs (or your favorite log site) report, I can run some comparisons for your character and try to determine what would cause the differences.

- I have fixed the glyph of IT; I read it incorrectly and it was buffing IT instead of frost fever... oops.

- Ghouls were also hitting too hard: I have fixed that.

- I wasn't aware that you could get the benefit of tundra stalker (or rage of rivendare) from another DK's disease -- I'll put that on the to-do list and possibly add it as an option in the custom rotation UI for DKs.

Saurfang Parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I should not that my armory lists my character in his tank gear; I'm currently unable to log onto WoW (my desktop and I are separated by ~1500 miles) to change this. Is it possible for me to otherwise send you my character file?

When did the fix for the IT glyph go in? I just ran another sim and the damage from IT still looks lower than it should be when compared with BP.

Finally, an option for pre-potting would be nice to have, as any spec with Bladed Armor can gain a "free" 97 AP for ~2min by chugging an Indestructable Pot just before the pull.

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For Bryn'troll: The damage looks correct, but my proc rate seems low. It is very difficult to figure out the real proc rates for a lot of these items... I was working off the assumption 11.3% proc rate that I found in some post. If I up the proc rate to about 18%, it seems closer to the two logs that I have. Does that number seem correct to people?

As for the glyph of icy touch, the latest code out there is modeling it properly. You probably have a cached tooltip that is showing the old glyph. I might need to manually clear out the cache for glyph tooltips, but it is just a display error.

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The Bryntroll proc rate should be 11.33%, all tests done have shown that to be true. You might not be allowing it to proc off of every melee hit; it should be able to be triggered by white hits, Blood Strike, SS (physical), SS (shadow), BCB and Plague Strike.

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I really like the look and feel of this tool. Nice work. Once everything is tweaked and polished it's going to be very useful.

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Saurfang Parse: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I should not that my armory lists my character in his tank gear; I'm currently unable to log onto WoW (my desktop and I are separated by ~1500 miles) to change this. Is it possible for me to otherwise send you my character file?

When did the fix for the IT glyph go in? I just ran another sim and the damage from IT still looks lower than it should be when compared with BP.

Finally, an option for pre-potting would be nice to have, as any spec with Bladed Armor can gain a "free" 97 AP for ~2min by chugging an Indestructable Pot just before the pull.

Cool, I'll take a look at that parse. You could set up your character with the Team Robot simulator, then Save the character via the Save menu. Then, go to that saved version of your character on the Load menu and choose "Export...". This will save it to an XML file that you could email to me or post on our forum (would rather not clutter the EJ thread with a bunch of XML). We have a guide on the import/export features at WoW Simulator Import/Export Feature

The fix to IT went in less than an hour ago. Most browsers will cache Silverlight plugins for about an hour or two -- you can wait for your cache to expire, or manually clear it. We have instructions at How to Clear your Browser Cache

I'll add pre-potting options to the to-do list, as I'm sure other classes will want the same thing.

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The Bryntroll proc rate should be 11.33%, all tests done have shown that to be true. You might not be allowing it to proc off of every melee hit; it should be able to be triggered by white hits, Blood Strike, SS (physical), SS (shadow), BCB and Plague Strike.

I don't have it triggering on BCB and the shadow part of scourge strike: do procs in general trigger off of those attacks, or just bryn'troll?

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I think that standard weapon procs can trigger from BCB (Unholy Strength, etc), but I'm not certain about SS.

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I don't have it triggering on BCB and the shadow part of scourge strike: do procs in general trigger off of those attacks, or just bryn'troll?

BCB and the disease applications of BP (from Plague Strike), the shadow part of SS will not proc Drain Life.

Regarding bugs, I loaded my DK (Ashbane) who is spec'ed Blood tank 52/8/11. When I loaded the character, its rotation used Obliterate (Blood uses Death Strike) and Blood Strike (use Heart Strike). I could load a custom rotation to get it correct.

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BCB and the disease applications of BP (from Plague Strike), the shadow part of SS will not proc Drain Life.

The shadow part of SS will most certainly proc drain life:


[20:05:59.782] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang *5964*

[20:05:59.782] Onslaughtx Drain Life  Deathbringer Saurfang 3122

[20:06:00.143] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 5772 (R: 641)



[20:05:40.885] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 2765

[20:05:41.202] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 2378 (R: 595)

[20:05:41.202] Onslaughtx Drain Life  Deathbringer Saurfang 3288

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The shadow part of SS will most certainly proc drain life:


[20:05:59.782] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang *5964*

[20:05:59.782] Onslaughtx Drain Life  Deathbringer Saurfang 3122

[20:06:00.143] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 5772 (R: 641)



[20:05:40.885] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 2765

[20:05:41.202] Onslaughtx Scourge Strike  Deathbringer Saurfang 2378 (R: 595)

[20:05:41.202] Onslaughtx Drain Life  Deathbringer Saurfang 3288

The combat log sometimes prints things out of order, so the physical part could be procing Drain Life both times.

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The combat log sometimes prints things out of order, so the physical part could be procing Drain Life both times.

It is pretty obvious that it is not. The first of the two clearly shows drain life hitting at the exact millisecond of the physical hit, where the second shows it is hitting the exact millisecond of the shadow hit. This is the same on both Rouncer and Tsurara's logs if you want to check it out, but if you can somehow provide proof, I'd love to see it.

Also, as shown in the unholy thread, when pestilence applies diseases it has a chance to proc drain life as well, for your calculations on future endeavors in multi-target dps simulation.

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