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Praetorian

Can we talk about 4H agro yet?

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Even after the 1.11 patch, if the Warriors are not paying attention a mob can revert back after a successful taunt. The difference is that I have never seen it happen on the Four Horsemen encounter. Considering how many swaps are taking place, I find it highly coincedental that I see it happen regularly on other mobs, but not on the Four Horsemen despite the fact there are exponentially more occurences for it to occur on the 4h as opposed to other encounters.

No, the horsemen can indeed revert back after a successful taunt.

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It's pretty obvious taunt was changed in general, I'm not sure that anything was changed in addition to that for 4h.

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I've never seen an unsuccessful swap after a successful Taunt by a tank on this encounter. If Taunt worked normally on this encounter, that would be pretty much impossible. The odds of every single warrior always turning off attack on time is practically 0.

I've seen it happen multiple times, actually, where warriors didn't turn off auto attack and were slow to run out, then got aggro even when taunt was successful.

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Yes, it can revert back after a successful taunt which goes back to my original post. If you previously had a resist, used Mocking Blow or Challenging Shout, that's when I notice the mob goes back to a previous tank.

However, I've never seen it happen without one of the above happening first. Have you ever walked up to a Four Horsemen, successfully taunted on the first try, and had it revert back to the original tank?

Not taunting after a resist, not using Mocking Blow, not using Challenging Shout at all, simply walking up, hitting Taunt and it landing, and having it go back to the original tank afterwards?

There is a big difference between the two. I've used Challenging Shout in the past, maintained agro after Challenging Shout wore off, then a few seconds later when my Taunt was up again, used Taunt and after that Taunt wore off, had it run to the other tank that was almost at the next mob.

Challenging Shout was off for about 4 seconds and I had agro on the mob after it wore off, I hit Taunt while the other tank is already 20+ yards away, and had it go back to that tank when Taunt wore off......

If you watch it closely enough, there are specific examples like this that clearly do not work normally. When they do happen, most people chalk them up to "human error" but it's not. It clearly works differently the only question is, more specifically, how does Taunt work on the encounter. My guess is the list I mentioned in my other post but really, I have no clue the only thing I know is that it works differently then other encounters.

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However, I've never seen it happen without one of the above happening first. Have you ever walked up to a Four Horsemen, successfully taunted on the first try, and had it revert back to the original tank?

Yes. Very first transition, no Challenging or Mocking involved.

Tank A has Mograine. Tank B taunts. Tank A hits one autoattack. Tank B sunders and crits a Heroic Strike. Tank A moves away. Taunt wears off. Mograine runs after Tank A.

Yes, that one autoattack shouldn't have happened, but that still defies everything I know about taunt since 1.11, unless I have some deeper misconception.

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Yes. Very first transition, no Challenging or Mocking involved.

Tank A has Mograine. Tank B taunts. Tank A hits one autoattack. Tank B sunders and crits a Heroic Strike. Tank A moves away. Taunt wears off. Mograine runs after Tank A.

Yes, that one autoattack shouldn't have happened, but that still defies everything I know about taunt since 1.11, unless I have some deeper misconception.

Well the very first taunt is quite a bit different because that can happen, and likely did, from simple overagro in the beginning of an encounter without having anything to do with the mechanics of Taunt on the encounter.

The way I think it works is this. Everyone still gets on the agro list normally, there is just a separate list for people using Taunt. When the next person Taunts, it replaces that person on the list, ie it wipes all agro for the previous tank generated by Taunt but they would still be on the agro list normally. Under most circumstances, there would be a huge gap in agro between the two tanks so there is practically no risk of the tanks messing up the tank swap.

Obviously that gap doesn't exist on the first transition so there is still the chance that the tank can overagro normally, regardless of the Taunt.

Here's another question to ask... Did Tank A previously Taunt the mob?

1) It could be that tank A never previously taunted the mob, so as I think the encounter works, Tank A's agro was never wiped since the list had not been established yet.

In addition I think there is a time limit on the list application. It's possible there might simply be a delay on the application to the list so if two Taunts land too close to one another, the second one won't register to get you onto the list which is why you occasionally have problems with Mocking Blow, letting it fall off, then Taunting whereas that would normally never be a problem on any other mob.

2) It's also possible Tank A had taunted too close to Tank B, so Tank B's Taunt did not replace the previous tank on the list.

As I said, it's all just speculation really but I am pretty convinced it does work differently, I just don't know how it works exactly.

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I wonder if the melee/ranged hate changes are affecting hate lists? As people swap from < 10 yards to > 10 yards perhaps a bug is causing threat lists to incorrectly get prioritized.

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solution to this thread: use 8 tanks in 6pc DN.

I wonder if the melee/ranged hate changes are affecting hate lists? As people swap from < 10 yards to > 10 yards perhaps a bug is causing threat lists to incorrectly get prioritized.

Sounds a lot like 'Onyxia is casting deep breath more this patch!'

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Yes. Very first transition, no Challenging or Mocking involved.

Tank A has Mograine. Tank B taunts. Tank A hits one autoattack. Tank B sunders and crits a Heroic Strike. Tank A moves away. Taunt wears off. Mograine runs after Tank A.

Yes, that one autoattack shouldn't have happened, but that still defies everything I know about taunt since 1.11, unless I have some deeper misconception.

The idea of rage being threat and that causing the original tank to go over 110% couldn't be kicking in could it?

Doing math rules that out (I think)... the tank would have to be hit for about 2000 Threat worth of aggro, less an auto-attack; which assuming the 94.6 dmg->rage 5threat/rage posted earlier [ =19dmg/threat] the tank would have had to be hit for 38 thousand damage.

Subract 600 threat for an auto-attack, and it's 26,000 damage, maybe a demo shout/charge brings it down more - but I don't think your tank took 10-20K damage in those opening moments did he/she?

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The idea of rage being threat and that causing the original tank to go over 110% couldn't be kicking in could it?

Doing math rules that out (I think)... the tank would have to be hit for about 2000 Threat worth of aggro, less an auto-attack; which assuming the 94.6 dmg->rage 5threat/rage posted earlier [ =19dmg/threat] the tank would have had to be hit for 38 thousand damage.

Subract 600 threat for an auto-attack, and it's 26,000 damage, maybe a demo shout/charge brings it down more - but I don't think your tank took 10-20K damage in those opening moments did he/she?

Getting rage from being hit doesn't generate threat.

Anyway, this isn't really a productive discussion beyond what's already been said. Maybe we're all paranoid nutcases, or maybe there is something there. If nothing else, the fact that more than a few people have noticed odd behavior suggests that there may be more to it. Or maybe not.

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