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Rouncer

EnhSim updated thread

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I downloaded the new beta 1.9.2.0, and I'm sorry to report that variability is back. I tried running it from a clean config file, importing my stats from Rawr, and got results of 6879, 6881, 6880, 6939, and then 6881. I kept running it, and it seems like about once in every five runs or so, I get an odd one. I just got one that was 6965.

I am attaching my config file for your reference.

### Saved by v1.9.2.0 of EnhSimGUI


config_version                  1.9.2.0

simulation_time                 5000

simulation_time_combatlog       300

combat_length                   10.00

report_count                    80

threads                         1

combat_length_rng_factor        0.35

min_lag                         200

max_lag                         300

simulate_mana                   1

cast_sr_on_cooldown             0


ep_precision                    2

ep_base_stat                    ap

ep_ap                           80

ep_crit_rating                  40

ep_hit_rating                   40

ep_expertise                    4

ep_haste_rating                 40

ep_armor_penetration_rating     40

ep_spellpower                   46

ep_dps                          7.5

ep_mana                         600

ep_spirit                       40

ep_mp5                          40


mh_auto_attack                  1

oh_auto_attack                  1

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00

cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0

bloodlust_casters               1

sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1

cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0

cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4

cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1

cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

cast_magma_only_if_ticks_left   0

cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       1250

use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

necrotic_touch                  0


rotation_priority_count         12

rotation_priority1              SW

rotation_priority2              SR

rotation_priority3              MW5_LB

rotation_priority4              FS

rotation_priority5              SS_0

rotation_priority6              ES_SS

rotation_priority7              SS

rotation_priority8              ES

rotation_priority9              MT

rotation_priority10             LS

rotation_priority11             LL

rotation_priority12             MW4_LB


miss                            8.00

dodge                           6.50

glancing                        24.00

armor                           10643

spell_miss                      17.00

nature_resistance               0

fire_resistance                 0

frost_resistance                0

arcane_resistance               0

shadow_resistance               0


additional_targets              0

additional_target_percent       25.00

cast_cl_when_aoe                1


armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0

armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0

physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0

melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0

melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0

attack_power_buff_flat          687/687

attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7

spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0

spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0

spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0

spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0

spellpower_buff                 280/280

spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0

haste_buff                      3.0/3.0

percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0

crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0

stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0

stat_add_buff                   51/51

agi_and_strength_buff           178/178

intellect_buff                  60/60


replenishment                   1

water_shield                    0

mana_spring_totem               0

blessing_of_wisdom              1

judgement_of_wisdom             1

mixology                        1


flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage

guardian_elixir                 -

potion                          -

food                            fish_feast


###############################################################################

### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###

### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###

###############################################################################


race                            tauren

mh_speed                        2.6

oh_speed                        2.6

mh_dps                          178.8

oh_dps                          171.5

mh_crit                         39.89

oh_crit                         39.89

mh_hit                          11.28

oh_hit                          11.28

mh_expertise_rating             154

oh_expertise_rating             154

ap                              4104

melee_haste                     10.70

armor_penetration               5.79

str                             151

agi                             1028

int                             679

spi                             171

spellpower                      1231

spell_crit                      30.91

spell_hit                       14.10

spell_haste                     8.23

max_mana                        14301

mp5                             0


mh_imbue                        windfury

oh_imbue                        flametongue


mh_enchant                      berserking

oh_enchant                      berserking


mh_weapon                       fist

oh_weapon                       -


trinket1                        corens_chromium_coaster

trinket2                        wrathstone


totem                           totem_of_electrifying_wind


set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_2

set_bonus2                      t9_battlegear_2

set_bonus3                      -


metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond


gloves_enchant                  -

cloak_enchant                   -


glyph_major1                    flame_shock

glyph_major2                    stormstrike

glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon


glyph_minor1                    -

glyph_minor2                    -

glyph_minor3                    -


ancestral_knowledge             5/5

improved_shields                1/3

mental_dexterity                3/3

shamanistic_focus               0/1

flurry                          5/5

elemental_weapons               3/3

unleashed_rage                  3/3

weapon_mastery                  3/3

dual_wield_specialization       3/3

mental_quickness                3/3

improved_stormstrike            2/2

static_shock                    3/3

maelstrom_weapon                5/5


convection                      0/5

concussion                      5/5

call_of_flame                   3/3

elemental_devastation           3/3

reverberation                   0/5

elemental_focus                 0/1

elemental_fury                  5/5

improved_fire_nova              2/2

call_of_thunder                 0/1

unrelenting_storm               0/3

elemental_precision             0/3

lightning_mastery               0/5

elemental_oath                  0/2

lightning_overload              0/5

lava_flows                      0/3

storm_earth_and_fire            0/3

shamanism                       0/5

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Try reducing your combat time to 7 minutes or remove variance completely. Do you still see an issue? With combat time at 10 minutes any variance will allow for second heroism casts to occur which I could see greatly skewing the data.

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I did some Black Bruise testing to compare it to Stormpike Cleaver (I probably should have chosen Remorseless but this was the quickest way for me to test this without having to regem some stuff):

Stormpike Cleaver

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               2743.89   32.46%    86.24

windfury            1063.96   12.59%    7.08

flametongue         620.02    7.34%     52.25

stormstrike         449.89    5.32%     6.22      34.26     14.54%

lava lash           334.61    3.96%     6.89      18.99     8.06%

magma totem         619.25    7.33%     3.05      56.70     24.05%

earth shock         660.10    7.81%     6.69      43.23     18.34%

flame shock         339.09    4.01%     3.02      18.41     7.81%

lightning bolt      952.85    11.27%    8.32      60.92     25.84%

lightning shield    349.38    4.13%     1.39      0.00      0.00%

spirit wolves       319.46    3.78%     0.39      3.20      1.36%


DPS                 8452.49

MPS                 235.72

MP2min              28286.97

MRPS                240.51

Out of mana time    0.01%


elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h

elapsed real time: 13.77s

simulation speed: 1307094x

I then edited the Stormpike Cleaver in RAWR so that it had the same stats as Black Bruise and then checked off the Black Bruise proc in EnhSim:
                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               2859.99   33.3%     84.73

windfury            1136.98   13.24%    7.02

flametongue         594.81    6.93%     50.99

stormstrike         482.48    5.62%     6.22      34.26     14.64%

lava lash           356.48    4.15%     6.90      19.01     8.13%

magma totem         609.27    7.09%     3.05      56.71     24.23%

earth shock         643.17    7.49%     6.63      42.81     18.30%

flame shock         337.57    3.93%     3.05      18.64     7.96%

lightning bolt      912.93    10.63%    8.10      59.38     25.37%

lightning shield    336.09    3.91%     1.36      0.00      0.00%

spirit wolves       317.58    3.7%      0.39      3.20      1.37%


DPS                 8587.34

MPS                 234.01

MP2min              28080.80

MRPS                236.81

Out of mana time    0.01%


elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h

elapsed real time: 14.54s

simulation speed: 1238049x

Consider that this is currently implemented as PHYSICAL damage in the sim it should only get better once we make it ignore boss armor and be affected by things such as CoE debuffs.

Perhaps the sim has mis implemented something but it appears we grossly underestimated this buff.

Levva: In the sim does Necrotic Touch proc off MH and OH hits or just MH hits?

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I did some Black Bruise testing to compare it to Stormpike Cleaver (I probably should have chosen Remorseless but this was the quickest way for me to test this without having to regem some stuff):

Consider that this is currently implemented as PHYSICAL damage in the sim it should only get better once we make it ignore boss armor and be affected by things such as CoE debuffs.

Perhaps the sim has mis implemented something but it appears we grossly underestimated this buff.

Levva: In the sim does Necrotic Touch proc off MH and OH hits or just MH hits?

We don't need it tested in the sim we need it tested on the PTR.

How do you know it ignores boss armour in game?

How do you know its affected by CoE buffs?

We don't know if it procs off MH or OH we need someone to test and tell us.

Basic napkin math theorycrafting suggests that its 1% proc is way way too low to make it viable, hence the sim reflects the current known information. If testers ie: people who aren't up to their eyes trying to actually code stuff for the sim, can get on with testing and provide results we can get on with implementing those findings in the next version of the sim.

As I see it the development team have a pact with you guys. We'll provide the sim for you to test things if you provide us with the raw data we need to code. That means reading the 2nd post in this thread seeing what data we need and going out there and doing some testing.

I don't do this testing myself as there is seriously not enough hours in the day to work, actually play the game, code changes to Rawr & EnhSim, moderate MMO-Champion Shaman forum AND do testing of things on the PTR. So I and others NEED your help. That's why we constantly update the 2nd post in this thread with new things we need testing. So you guys can make the sim better by testing stuff and providing the results so we can code that in the sim.

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We don't need it tested in the sim we need it tested on the PTR.

How do you know it ignores boss armour in game?

How do you know its affected by CoE buffs?

We don't know if it procs off MH or OH we need someone to test and tell us.

When has spell damage ever been mitigated by armor? When has spell damage ever not been affected by CoE? All I'm saying is that these are safe assumptions as Blizzard would have to code a new type of special shadow damage that was mitigated by armor and not affected by CoE. Coding it this way in the sim is a safe bet as all evidence in the past has supported it. Procs from weapons have always been based on hits from that weapon itself.

While yes we should see what these things are like IN GAME, I see nothing wrong with making what are safe assumptions and then altering those assumptions if they turn out wrong. At least people can get a ball park figure for when this stuff actually drops.

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Weighted Averages and Fire Nova Glyph

First of all, going through my guilds logs for recent ToGCs, I am finding that for us, the average uptime of Boss+2 is very similar to what Nevets_69 has said. For the 3 relevant fights that my guild can do, plus using his calculations for Anub heroic (since we are only still working on phase 3), I find a Boss+2 uptime of 59% (Nevets suggests 62%). This will be different for each guild of course, but it is encouraging that the numbers are close. Here is one of those reports for the first 4 bosses (ignore faction champs, it was a very funny kill and not relevant): World of Logs-Report.

Now, back to the topic, I believe (until multiple priorities are available for testing) using these weighted averages can give us a good indication of what to expect as an "overall" indication of how we should perform in ToGC. This can help us spec and glyph for the overall encounter (though likely some boss fights we will still glyph with that encounter in mind).

So, using the weighted averages and the config/rotations I linked in this post (except updated to v1.9.2.0), I looked into the viability of the fire nova glyph compared to the flame shock glyph (my current 3rd best glyph).

To be clear, I used the weighted average put forth by Nevets, 62% of the time we are fighting Boss+2 adds, 38% single target.

For the flame shock glyph:

Boss+2: 11,305.60

Boss+0: 8,360.51

Weighted Average: 10,186.47

For the fire nova glyph:

Boss+2: 11,535.43

Boss+0: 8,283.13

Weighted Average: 10,299.56

Please note, these results are what works for my current set up, since we do not currently have an agreed upon BiS set-up. Also note these are 10 simulation averages, though I found little to no variability.

Edit: The only thing I do not understand is why AoE went up so much from the last version. That aside, when I sim them in the previous version, the difference is 82 dps in favour of the fire nova glyph, versus the 113 in the current beta.

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When has spell damage ever been mitigated by armor? When has spell damage ever not been affected by CoE? All I'm saying is that these are safe assumptions as Blizzard would have to code a new type of special shadow damage that was mitigated by armor and not affected by CoE. Coding it this way in the sim is a safe bet as all evidence in the past has supported it. Procs from weapons have always been based on hits from that weapon itself.

While yes we should see what these things are like IN GAME, I see nothing wrong with making what are safe assumptions and then altering those assumptions if they turn out wrong. At least people can get a ball park figure for when this stuff actually drops.

Indeed. However with Necrotic touch it needs some testing. How does the "additional 9% damage" work out. If its 9% of the damage your melee attack did then that's already been reduced by armour and so 9% of whatever the melee damage is has already been affected by all the melee multipliers. Is that how it works?? Or is it 9% of the base damage range of the weapon? That would be really low, so perhaps being shadow damage its affected by spellpower? If so what's it co-efficient?

What buffs is it affected by is it affected by melee buffs and it's 9% of the total damage the weapon lands? Or is it base weapon damage and affected by any spellpower/spell damage buffs?

Can it crit? If it can what is the crit rate? The melee crit rate? The spell crit rate?

Perhaps my original questions seemed too obvious. Do these questions make it clearer that its NOT a simple proposition to work out how to model Necrotic touch.

Weighted Averages and Fire Nova Glyph

Now, back to the topic, I believe (until multiple priorities are available for testing) using these weighted averages can give us a good indication of what to expect as an "overall" indication of how we should perform in ToGC. This can help us spec and glyph for the overall encounter (though likely some boss fights we will still glyph with that encounter in mind).

So, using the weighted averages and the config/rotations I linked in this post (except updated to v1.9.2.0), I looked into the viability of the fire nova glyph compared to the flame shock glyph (my current 3rd best glyph).

To be clear, I used the weighted average put forth by Nevets, 62% of the time we are fighting Boss+2 adds, 38% single target.

Please note, these results are what works for my current set up, since we do not currently have an agreed upon BiS set-up. Also note these are 10 simulation averages, though I found little to no variability.

Edit: The only thing I do not understand is why AoE went up so much from the last version. That aside, when I sim them in the previous version, the difference is 82 dps in favour of the fire nova glyph, versus the 113 in the current beta.

Can you clarify the weighted averages. Are you doing Boss +2 at 100% duration and Boss +0 at 100% duration? Then weighting the averages? If so is this only due to the inability to specify changed priorities? As you could just do Boss +2 at 38%.

NB. v1.9.2.0 has support for using CL instead of LB during the +2 phase when CL is off cooldown. That might account for the increase in AoE damage in this version.

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Can you clarify the weighted averages. Are you doing Boss +2 at 100% duration and Boss +0 at 100% duration? Then weighting the averages? If so is this only due to the inability to specify changed priorities? As you could just do Boss +2 at 38%.

NB. v1.9.2.0 has support for using CL instead of LB during the +2 phase when CL is off cooldown. That might account for the increase in AoE damage in this version.

I am doing both at 100% duration for that exact reason, and then taking the weighted average. The priorities are quite different for AoE and single target as I noted earlier, so I felt this was the most accurate way I could do it currently. When we can use 2 priorities we can do Boss+2 at 62% duration.

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Based on the language of the proc for Black Bruise this is how we should assume it works.

Item - Icecrown 25 Normal Slow Melee Weapon Proc

Your weapon swings have a chance to grant you Necrotic Touch for 10 sec, causing all your melee attacks to deal an additional 9% damage as shadow damage.

1. 9% of all melee damage, after mitigation, including raid buffs and debuffs. "All your melee attacks" should mean it would include melee specials, mainhand and offhand hits. It should also include Lava Lash damage since that is calculated as melee damage. It should be calculated only off of the actual damage occurring when the weapon lands.

2. Procs should occur off of hits from both mainhand and offhand white hits and include specials that count as weapon swings. Those being Stormstrike, Lava Lash and Windfury.

3. Run the damage separately in the sim from melee damage to make it easier to verify once people start playing with it and have it be affected by any raid buff/debuff that affects spell damage (CoE and Sanctified Retribution - it would be double dipping on the latter). Run on the assumption that the shadow damage can not crit nor can it miss and that it won't be affected by spell resistances.

Things that need confirmation and remaining questions. Does it proc from specials? Does it proc from offhand white hits/specials? Do offhand hits and specials also gain additional shadow damage? Can the shadow damage crit? Does the shadow damage benefit from raid buffs like CoE? How does it work with absorption? Can it be resisted?

Testing procedures when someone gets one.

1. Sideways to dummy to disable autoattack, no weapon imbues. Stormstrike 200 times or until you get a proc.

2. Sideways to dummy to disable autoattack, no weapon imbues. Lava Lash 200 times or until you get a proc.

3. Submit a WoL parse of 10 minutes of attacking a dummy with a full rotation with just totem buffs.

4. Get someone to apply CoE to a dummy and parse at least one full proc duration so we can see how it is being affected by the debuff.

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Try reducing your combat time to 7 minutes or remove variance completely. Do you still see an issue? With combat time at 10 minutes any variance will allow for second heroism casts to occur which I could see greatly skewing the data.

Not sure what is going on, but with the latest build (1.9.2.1), the variance in my results is back down to a very manageable 1-2 dps.

Next time it happens, I'll try to examine the detailed DPS analysis to see what is changing.

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I just tested new EnhSim bet version (1.9.2.1) and it gave me really strange results. After 6 simulations with the same config it showed more than 600 DPS diference. Here http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7937/86477241.jpg is picture so you can see it for yourself

Simulation time was 5000h

Combat length was 7 min

variation was 35%

I had 2 additional targets with 50% uptime, and selected cast CL when additional are in range

And it didn't change anything if I lowered variance to 0

It looks like CL and MT totems DPS varied the most

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I just tested new EnhSim bet version (1.9.2.1) and it gave me really strange results. After 6 simulations with the same config it showed more than 600 DPS diference. Here http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7937/86477241.jpg is picture so you can see it for yourself

Simulation time was 5000h

Combat length was 7 min

variation was 35%

I had 2 additional targets with 50% uptime, and selected cast CL when additional are in range

And it didn't change anything if I lowered variance to 0

It looks like CL and MT totems DPS varied the most

Sorry that amount of info is meaningless. You need to post your config.txt file. Please use the Issue tracker at EnhSim - Issue Tracker not this thread.

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I wrote up a ticket about the issue - seems to be that the block of time randomly assigned as AoE can have it's start time placed so that it's duration would go over the total time specified for the encounter.

For now, please limit testing to either 0% or 100% for multiple target conditions and the simulator will give accurate results as expected.

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I have a question about rotations, particularly as they relate to Enhsim.

The default rotation puts SW (Spirit Wolves, right?) first, followed by Shamanistic Rage. But I don't actually play that way. I cast both spells situationally, which in practice means "not that often". I cast SW when think I need a boost and I cast SR when I get low on mana.

Am I making a mistake? Should I just be spamming both whenever they are off cooldown? Or should I adapt the Enhsim Priority Queue to reflect my playstyle? And if so, how?

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In addition to its position in the priority queue, there are 2 additional triggers in enhsim for SR. There is a check box to use it on cooldown, for people who have the t10 set bonus. More generally, there is a threshold mana level to use SR. If your mana falls below this level, the sim will try to cast SR if the priority comes up.

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I have a question about rotations, particularly as they relate to Enhsim.

The default rotation puts SW (Spirit Wolves, right?) first, followed by Shamanistic Rage. But I don't actually play that way. I cast both spells situationally, which in practice means "not that often". I cast SW when think I need a boost and I cast SR when I get low on mana.

Am I making a mistake? Should I just be spamming both whenever they are off cooldown? Or should I adapt the Enhsim Priority Queue to reflect my playstyle? And if so, how?

Others are finding that moving spirit wolves down near the bottom along with SR and producing DPS increases. To me this is irrelevant though. My first spirit wolves is always synced to hero which is not at the whims of my ability queue but instead at the whims of the raid. I currently cast SR whenever its up and I have a dead spot in my priority list. The sim is a lot more rigid. For example, if you are at 4k mana (with SR set to fire at 4k) and SR > FN, then the sim will fire SR even though in practicality I would probably hit FN and then do SR in the empty space to follow. In fact my chances of even hitting 4k mana to begin with are very slim.

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In addition to its position in the priority queue, there are 2 additional triggers in enhsim for SR. There is a check box to use it on cooldown, for people who have the t10 set bonus. More generally, there is a threshold mana level to use SR. If your mana falls below this level, the sim will try to cast SR if the priority comes up.

It appears that if you don't have SR in your priority queue, the sim doesn't cast it at all, even though the threshold mana option has a number. Which would suggest that the default settings do what I do: only cast SR when necessary for mana replenishment.

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Others are finding that moving spirit wolves down near the bottom along with SR and producing DPS increases. To me this is irrelevant though. My first spirit wolves is always synced to hero which is not at the whims of my ability queue but instead at the whims of the raid. I currently cast SR whenever its up and I have a dead spot in my priority list. The sim is a lot more rigid. For example, if you are at 4k mana (with SR set to fire at 4k) and SR > FN, then the sim will fire SR even though in practicality I would probably hit FN and then do SR in the empty space to follow. In fact my chances of even hitting 4k mana to begin with are very slim.

Yes, you're right. Dropping it in my Rotation Order actually resulted in a DPS increase. Which leads me to wonder if it should just be part of my standard rotation, and not just cast on special occasions? It does seem to be somewhat valuable, but not all that valuable. It's like a 200 DPS increase over the duration of the simulation.

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Is there a reason the sim seems to show such low mana regen from JoW? I find from looking at parses that it usually returns a comparable amount of mana to imp SS and about triple what replenishment provides. When I run the sim however, JoW's MRPS is about 8 or so with replenishment in the 40s, looking at other peoples sim results this seems to be the norm. I'm just wondering if I'm misinterpreting something in there.

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Is there a reason the sim seems to show such low mana regen from JoW? I find from looking at parses that it usually returns a comparable amount of mana to imp SS and about triple what replenishment provides. When I run the sim however, JoW's MRPS is about 8 or so with replenishment in the 40s, looking at other peoples sim results this seems to be the norm. I'm just wondering if I'm misinterpreting something in there.

Possibly a bug??? Please post detailed analysis in the issues thread at EnhSim - Issue Tracker so that we can test this.

Re: SR in priorities - it does as you'd expect only use SR if you dip below the mana threshold you set.

As to the comment from Ryethe that "my chances of even hitting 4k mana to begin with are very slim." this very very strongly suggests then that if you are sitting with a pool of mana that is over 4k when SR becomes available, then you have way too many mana regen talents and could afford to switch some for dps talents. The trick is to get to around 10%-15% mana when SR becomes available (20-25% if you are more nervous about fight movement dynamics). If you are saying you have a useless 4k mana reserve all the time that you never need to tap into then you are almost certainly getting mana back too quick and could do with less and thus more dps.

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Yeah I for sure agree with what you're saying. However the point I was trying to raise is that people need to understand the exact situation the sim is simulating and its current limitations. It's good to know that if you're below say 5k you should hit DR at X priority, but I would think that it would be intelligent to also hit the button at 6k mana if you end up with a complete dead spot in your rotation and end up not wasting a GCD when there may be other abilities off CD later.

Perhaps we could have and option in the sim to hit SR if nothing else is available (bottom of the queue reached) but also to hit it at the priority specified if we get below a certain mana amount? Not sure this would be the worth the work at the moment since in a couple months we'll likely be hitting SR on CD with 2pc. Something to keep in mind for post-3.3 though if SR doesn't get drastic changes.

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Yeah I for sure agree with what you're saying. However the point I was trying to raise is that people need to understand the exact situation the sim is simulating and its current limitations. It's good to know that if you're below say 5k you should hit DR at X priority, but I would think that it would be intelligent to also hit the button at 6k mana if you end up with a complete dead spot in your rotation and end up not wasting a GCD when there may be other abilities off CD later.

Perhaps we could have and option in the sim to hit SR if nothing else is available (bottom of the queue reached) but also to hit it at the priority specified if we get below a certain mana amount? Not sure this would be the worth the work at the moment since in a couple months we'll likely be hitting SR on CD with 2pc. Something to keep in mind for post-3.3 though if SR doesn't get drastic changes.

If this is the behavior you want the sim to demonstrate, it's already available.

Just set the mana threshold to 16000 (or whatever your total mana pool is), and then put SR at the bottom of your priority list. That way, the sim will always be looking to cast SR, but never actually do it until you get to "dead spot" in your rotation.

The only risk, is that if the sim never finds these dead spots like you do, then it will never use SR.

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