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Vhal

The cross-server battleground experience

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1.12 was the best thing to ever happen to Australians PvPing. BGs in our prime time (outside Khaz'goroth/Frostmourne/Proudmoore/Blackrock) have been non-existent forever; suddenly, we have AV AB and WSG on demand at all times.

It was also the best thing to ever happen to Windrunner PvP. We have horrible population imbalance coupled with being an old, old server... all the serious PvPers on Horde side were long since exalted with everything (and probably had been rank 13 or rank 14 if they wanted to) and quit, and due to the lack of Horde pvp Alliance stopped queuing other than organised teams going for top rank, which meant any horde pugs trying to pvp just got stomped and didn't bother and blah blah deathspiralcakes.

We've suddenly got a thriving pvp scene again. A lot of people have come back just for the competition, even pugs seem to do well in AB, and AV seems to be about 40/60 (which is still better than how it was pre-TBC, when Horde tended to have people leave without replacement and inevitably lose by weight of numbers and gear). Lots of people who used to never pvp are suddenly rank 3, rank 4. People who used to like it but never able to get in are suddenly rank 6, rank 7, rank 8.

Also there's the whole meeting-new-people thing. I still see Windrunner alliance members occasionally, but not all the time. That's a good thing. New opponents, new friends.

So as an Australian PvPing on Windrunner, 1.12 gets double thumbs up. If only this had been in from the start...

Plus it's been a whole new world of Alliance to taunt in dwarvish when I put away the 2h and break out the Ironfoe (surely the most amusing pvp weapon in existence for a Horde player; there should be more things like it).

I don't know anyone on Windrunner who's against x-server BGs, anyway. I think the only people who would have reason are people who might now need more honor a week for rank 14, or people used to rolling with the same bunch of top-geared people in AV on their server who now have to fight alongside a bunch of people they don't know in greens and blues from new servers.

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Our organized AB/WSG group hasn't lost one of the last 80 or so BGs we've been in. Not because we're good persay, but because we're paired with unorganized, ungeared PUGs.

The BG system was a failure doomed from birth, and the light at the end of the play to crush tunnel is tBC PVP.

An instanced PVP system will not work in WoW until 1. It's cross-faction, 2. It ranks players and chooses the BG players by those ranks and 3: Is cross-server.

Until those three conditions are met instanced PVP isn't very good, I've been saying it for two years now, and they're finally doing it with arenas.

It's my hope they implement the BG content with the tBC arena rules.

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Since our cluster has so many new servers, you see some really bizarre things. For example: a 60 warlock with 2341 unbuffed HP. That's not a typo. In general I've discovered that most of the other servers on our battlegroup are populated by idiots, but the instant queues make up for it.

I'm hoping that the Burning Crusade arena turns out to be exactly what I envision it being: Warcraft 3 AT, since for all of the other faults of Warcraft 3, the matchmaking system was pretty damn good.

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Our organized AB/WSG group hasn't lost one of the last 80 or so BGs we've been in. Not because we're good persay, but because we're paired with unorganized, ungeared PUGs.

See, what I've noticed is that I see about one organized AB/WSG team every 1-2 hours.

Which is exactly how often I used see them. The difference being, in the 30-90 minutes I have between org/org games, I at least get to PvP rather than wait around IF or pick flowers. I get just as many good games as I used to - but I also get a lot of mediocre ones.

In the end, while I'd prefer 100% of my games to be good ones (Arena system!), I'll settle for one game out of every 5-6 being good and being able to PvP near-constantly, since the old system would give me one good game and a lot of downtime.

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In the end, while I'd prefer 100% of my games to be good ones (Arena system!), I'll settle for one game out of every 5-6 being good and being able to PvP near-constantly, since the old system would give me one good game and a lot of downtime.

I don't know about 100%. After 3 intense 40-minute Group v Group WSGs in a row sometimes you just want to sit back and roll some PUGs. A preform about every 3-4 games is what I've been seeing in BG7, and that's just about right for me.

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I just transferred to Khadgar so I'll tell you how I feel once you get done beating me up. :(

No, I like it. I'm not a major PvPer by any means. I love PvP but not WoW's PvP; I like to feel like it makes a difference in the world at large and if it's not I'll go play a fps. But I dabble and find it fun in small doses and this has helped immensely for the small dose guy like me. Practically instant action.

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Pre xBG, besides premades there would be only be a handful of Alliance that ever did AB or WSG. Horde always lost AB/WSG unless you managed get lucky. However, we always won AV.

Now, it's pretty much flipped. We usually win AB/WSG and lose AV. I don't mind that much, anything is preferable to 2 hour queues and losing in 5 minutes. Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I'm in an 'off' timezone too, so it's really great for me.

A team that did this camped once for three hours in the same game and walked away with 50k honor from just that one game. Its exceptionally lame and the neverending joining pugs make it work. Its just a massive design oversight.

50k honour is really not that much for three hours. It isn't a viable strategy for ranking up. Of course, it doesn't stop people from doing it anyway just to be jerks, but I don't see it becoming widespread.

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I don't know about 100%. After 3 intense 40-minute Group v Group WSGs in a row sometimes you just want to sit back and roll some PUGs. A preform about every 3-4 games is what I've been seeing in BG7, and that's just about right for me.

Which reminds me, while these extremely long, intense games can be fun, in the back of your mind you know you're killing your honor efficiency. Even after BG honor efficiency isn't as relevant in the expansion, I still honestly think WSG needs a time limit, just for the sake of fun. 45 min seems like a good mark, although I'd prefer 30. (Hey, I'm a TF player. I'm used to 30 min. matches.)

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Our battlegroup is like a nice box of mixed nuts. Some nights you pull up a group in T3, some nights you pull up puggies in greens. I miss playing with Skywall horde a lot though- we had a lot of respect going back and forth and less of the rampant idiocy. There are so few of them to begin with that it's pretty much a rare spawn to see them- we've gone against a skywall team only once since the patch went live =(.

What really annoys me though, is that there are a couple of groups that queue after raid times and refuse to fight a group with more than 5 or so from the same server. Oh it's another AFK out by that guild on XServer... It's always the same two servers and it's annoying as hell =/

I like being able to get in 3 or 4 games with my guildmates after raid time, it's a great way to blow off steam after getting stomped by raid bosses. Prior to the patch our queue's were 45-95min (no that's not a typo or exaggeration. There was usually one or two horde groups TOPS queueing to fight the entire alliance) now we're averaging between 6-9 min for wsg =D

Two thumbs up imo.

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Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

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In some ways I like it - i.e. shorter queue times, but I do miss seeing the Horde side of my own server more. Not that there's much left of it, most of the raiding guilds have collapsed/transfered, but it's still nice to see those names you know oh-so-well and know that you're going to have a good and tough matchup. We used to have a major cross guild Alliance CP team and a major Horde one and WSG games between the two would last 2 hours+... but sadly those days are gone and most of the people who want their GM gear have it now, so "pro" CP teams are few and far between.

Deathwing probably has the most geared Alliance raiding guilds in BG10 and it's usually pretty sad who we end up running against. Greens/Blues/T1 doesn't fare well against BWL/T3+ gear. In all the AB matches I've played, I've only seen a single guild premade with BWL+ gear, the majority being mid/end MC geared. For fun one night we made a 15 hunter AB group with a good portion of the best geared hunters from DW (T3 2-6/8's) and didn't lose a single time to any group, including the above mentioned guild premade with BWL+ gear.

It was actually somewhat sad. :( 5-0's while amusing, are kind of dull after the 20th one while you watch the queue climb from 2 minutes to over 15. (What, nobody wants 15 hunters dancing at your graveyard with flares and traps, waiting for you to res while the 5-0 resource count ticks away?) It'd be interesting if they had a queue option to play only against premades/guild groups/serious groups and the like ... but then again it could just be my tired brain rambling on.

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Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

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Would be nice to have them put the Join as Group function back in and make it Group vs Group action for AV. :)

We try to sync our queues, countdown and queue at approximately the same time. End up with 4 or 5 people in one AV, a couple in another and the rest spread out. But then we argue about what we're gonna do ... "I want to farm HK on D" vs "cmon, we need to end this fast, Hordies are ahead".

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Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

Well that's my point, I would love to see 2 organized guilds 40-strong just going at it in AV the way it was meant to be played. You can call it an elitist prick mentality, but AV was a raid, it had objectives, and people were meant to do certain things in it. It's been dumbed down to the point it's at now because your casual retarded WoW player didn't care about the objects the BG expected you to complete and as a result we have AV today, with no NPC, and a rat race against scrubs who win or lose based on who kills who's NPCs faster. It's the same reason the Azshara BG never came out, they never found a way to make a 40 vs 40 pvp senario work, so they cancelled it, I'm sure Azshara would have been highly similar to AV, but I guess now we'll never know.

I absolutely can't stand stepping foot in AV atm, I hate pugging AV, I used to lead the organized AV raids on my server, so going back there to what it is now kinda makes me sick to my stomach. The best raids I had were when the rival "big" horde guilds on the server got involved and heard I was rolling PuGS and started queuing together to stop me, I never got to take on another 40-man group unfortunately, but when there we 15-20 of them in one game and I had to think about where I wanted my forces to go it became alot more interesting. :) Sending the Rogues around on missions, or using a divide and conqour strategy, or a pincer attack to flank the Horde was very fun hehe. All done with nothing but alot of caps and no ventrillo.

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Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

It’s my firm belief that number is 1. I normally pvp on a t1/t2 geared alt warlock. Basically make it my mission to make sure towers/gy’s are capped and stay capped, and or that the alliance towers are taken back. I find it makes the wins much quicker and slows the horde down immensely. The only time I have failed at it and indeed the horde had a massive turn around and won was when a Horde rank 13 shaman did exactly the same thing back to me and killed me 1v1 something like 7-8 times. I also am repping up a mid 50's hunter. All I can do is hide in their zerg and pump out damage, typically the games on my hunter are 20 mins longer.

As for playing vs. Organised groups different Battle groups I guess. BG9 especially at the times I play 50% of the horde teams are organised. That doesn’t necessarily mean you will play them ,we had a very amusing game recently where we got a “Khaz†team, then “Bart†, then after 20 seconds of 10 vs 0 the same “Bart†team then finally a single spotter from the 1st “Khaz†team who we danced with while the 3rd flag was run back. But in general Blackrock/Proudmoore teams always stay and are a mix of t2+

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Given the complete and total lack of any organization in 95% of AV matches, I doubt you'd need a full 40 to make a large impression. I've seen groups of 5 or 6 people clearly on Ventrilo either sabotaging rearguards or holding off far more people than they had any right to.

We've gotten as many as 12-15 in one AV. If you pull that off, you've basically won. (Nothing quite like stopping the full Alliance raid cold in front of Galvanger's room without a single casualty.)

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Honestly, and this may have come as a shock, but I feel the x server bg's have been horrible. Its completely gutted the thriving PvP community that was on Gorefiend. We never get to see our rival guilds in BG's anymore, except by random chance.

I kind of agree with this, much though the insta-queues are nice, there are just too many potential opponents to develop any kind of love/hate hate/hate relationships.

Whereas I used to be like "Oh it's XXX let's gank so and so", now I'm like "oh it's random alliance pug/premade from XXX".

We've definitely given something up in community/rivalry terms to gain something in practicality/accessibility.

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I don't really like battlegrounds that much, but I love the AV PvP experience. It makes me think I'd enjoy a PvP server more.

However, being in Australia, I love that I can now get an AV game, with a 45 min wait maximum at any time of day or night.

Prior to 1.11, during the weekend AV queues were 2h+, 3hrs was very normal, and in off-peak times (when I can normally play) non-existant.

IMHO, 1.12 AV rocks. (So close to exalted with my Mage alt that I can smell the purply flowery offhand)

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Cross-server AV is mostly bleh for the most part. I normally just hang around Stonehearth and just keep fighting a retreating action until I hit the bridge/aid station and hope that the offensive force can grow brains big enough to fight their way to Drek'thar.

Nothing quite like mowing down a bunch of Horde in 2-3 shots with the help of Renataki's ... then suddenly feeling very targetted as you're sitting on top of the killing blows list by a good margin. X_x Although, it tends to get you healed a lot more once people realize that given heals, you can completely discourage most random PUGs from advancing too far. Big multi crits tend to do that.

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For me, PvP was about sparing, and playing against friends on the opposite faction on our server, going in with a guild team, and seeing how well we lined up against the Horde's best (or worst!) teams. Cross faction BG's has really taken the personality of PvP out of the game, for me at least. So instead of a long honor grind, or relaxing post-raid kill fest against well known opponents/friends, you now just fight nameless masses of Horde players from multiple servers, a lot of which you will never see in another game again.

...not to mention our Alliance queue time went from ~30 seconds to 5 minutes to 10 minutes to 30 minutes.

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I think overall it was a good thing for the battlegrounds for pretty much everyone, I was getting sick of waiting 40 minutes per game to end a game in 5 minutes, and then only to repeat the exact same process.

The only thing I do miss is the realm drama which has dissapeared now :(

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The original AV guild vs. guild (or group vs. group in most cases) was incredibly fun. Since there were so many people, you could get away with a PvE spec (so many NPCs to taunt/dps down fast too) and PvP happened on a regular basis. Now PvP is more of a hiderence in the way of slaying the other factions raid leader before they slay yours.

I know on Kil'Jaeden, the horde queue is still insta-queue like it always was. Although we are supposidly on a more competitive cluster, I see 15 pickup games before I see an organized team.

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Before cross realm battlegrounds we used to take a guild group to AV when we were done raiding for the night. The games usually lasted for quite some time and it wasn't uncommon to see more and more of people from similarly progressed horde guilds join up for some nice battles. Fighting people you knew or atleast recognized was much of the fun and since our non-guild allies were from the same server cooperating was pretty easy. I must say I miss that.

For now I use the instant AV games to restock on Ice Threaded Arrows without having to waste time flying.

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Personally, I LOVE IT. On Kilrogg (H) we have zero waits when que'ing as group in WSG or AB and in between que's or if we take a 5min break I can get a quick AV shot in since there is no wait there either. Plus its nice seeing the other servers. Have had some fun vs Ner'Zhul, Silverhand, Tichondrius pre-made's (and many others). And like a previous poster stated, losing in AV nonstop isnt so bad considering you can do non stop AV's now with virtually no wait. And with AV weekend upcoming, should be good times.

Keeping my eye out to for EJ regulars, but no luck so far. I PVP on my warrior, Dieseltank (lol, lame name, I KNOW), give a shout if you see my weak ass running around bashing heads.

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Battlegroup 8 has been pretty decent overall but I've been a bit burnt out on PvP since the start of this semester--I missed Rank 12 by two weeks :(--so all I have are some rather generic observations:

-It kinda sucks not being able to see some of your PvP 'Rivals'; I know that we, Risen (Ursin), usually had an awesome time playing against some of the horde guilds on Ursin in AB but we rarely see them anymore (aside from random encounters in the world where you are, inevitably, alone and there are 5+ of them).

-Pugging is... tolerable now. There's a large enough number of decent to good players that I can actually rep up in warsong without tearing my hair out. Of course, I've run into more horde pre-made groups than before but those games are usually over quickly anyway.

-While pugging is tolerable, there's always that pickup from hell. You know, the one where you zone in, look around at your team with /inspect to see if someone's worth healing, and just start crying. Even worse, the other team is usually just as bad off so you end up with 30+ minute flag-standoffs in WSG because neither team can burst the other's carrier down. While this seems to happen a lot more now, I've found that threatening to return the horde flag myself will stop the alliance team from turtling and actually produce results every now and then.

-Being a Druid in a PvP setting is immensely more fun, for me, than previously and I have a feeling that being a non-shadow priest is at least a bit better as well. Is there someone, or more than one person, worth healing? Well, I get honor from their kills now (gogo auto-BG group!) so I'm perfectly willing to heal them! If there isn't anyone worth healing, I can always pop on my feral gear and kill something (or, alternatively, my flag running gear if it looks like we have a chance).

-On a slight tangent to the last point, do any other classes see a benefit to the new system?

Aside from not seeing any Horde that I actually know in a BG all that often, which sucks quite a bit, the new system is quite a nice change all things considered.

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