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[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion (3.3 and onward)

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Has anyone done any testing on the distance the Fire Elemental will move from it's totem? If not I can try to work out something later.

Just from memory from our last two kills, FE would leash back to it's totem when it's distance was roughly 3/4 of the distance of the room front to back, and about half the distance side to side. This is absolutely a rough estimation, and only to be used as a starting point.

Re: the person saying that the Ele shaman's FE was staying on target longer:

Both our kills have had an Ele, Resto and Me (enh), and all three of us dropped our FE at roughly the same spot, and most of the time they leashed at similar times. I will say that in general the fight is just frustratingly bad for us if only because of constant globals on totem redrop (and single cast SoE/WF when FE is up).

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Just from memory from our last two kills, FE would leash back to it's totem when it's distance was roughly 3/4 of the distance of the room front to back, and about half the distance side to side. This is absolutely a rough estimation, and only to be used as a starting point.

Re: the person saying that the Ele shaman's FE was staying on target longer:

Both our kills have had an Ele, Resto and Me (enh), and all three of us dropped our FE at roughly the same spot, and most of the time they leashed at similar times. I will say that in general the fight is just frustratingly bad for us if only because of constant globals on totem redrop (and single cast SoE/WF when FE is up).

Just did some rough testing dueling in the sewers and every time I got the fire elemental around 45 yards away from the totem, it leashed. I measured the distance using the range of Hex and Shocks. The target was just past the combined range of hex and wind shear from the totem when the elemental leashed.

Interestingly, when the target was just outside of the leash range, the elemental would pursue the target, cast fire nova as soon as it could (at max range from its target), complete the cast, attempt to get into melee range, then leash. This suggests that if the elemental is up and the boss is being moved away from it, fire nova will often miss. This is due to fire nova's cast time and the fact that the elemental will cast it as soon as its target is at max range, regardless of the target's movement. I'm not sure, but to me it seems like a lot of the upside of the fire elemental is actually offset on putricide considering the lost fire novas of both the shaman and the fire elemental and the 45 yard range from the totem.

In regards to lost globals, you might make a totem set that includes your normal buff totems (SoE/WF/HST) and either omits the fire totem completely or actually includes fire elemental totem. Using either set during your FE's uptime will refresh earth, air, and water totems in one global without overwriting or removing your elemental.

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Also, just to make things a little easier for other JCers figuring out which JCer gems to use or anyone fiddling with the gems in this list. The gems in this current BiS are:

1 meta: Relentless Earthsiege x1

6 red: Precise Cardinal Ruby x6

2 orange: Accurate Amethyst x 2

11 yellow: Rigid King's Amber x6 Quick King's Amber x5

1 prismatic: Nightmare Tear x1

0 blue

Filling these sockets:

1 meta, 7 red, 4 blue, 8 yellow, +1 extra belt socket

For the following stats (not counting socket bonus):

21 agility 3% crit dmg

10 all stats

140 expertise rating

140 hit rating

100 haste rating

edit: updated March 5th

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Seeing the total list of gems posted, I was wondering why we are still using the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond in the BiS list. I moved to the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond a while ago. It frees up the a gem slot to use another gem by removing the Enchanted Tear. Is this something just left over from the 3.2 BiS list?

Edit: Removed Conjecture.

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Seeing the total list of gems posted, I was wondering why we are still using the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond in the BiS list. I moved to the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond a while ago. It frees up the a gem slot to use a Quick King's Amber by removing the Enchanted Tear and it gives AP + a small % of Crit instead of straight Crit (which we know is a problem with all of the Crit Cap Analysis). Is this something just left over from the 3.2 BiS list?

The concept of this thread is for you to find upgrades and then report those upgrades and then the list gets updated. Posting conjecture accomplishes nothing.

As for relentless versus chaotic keep in mind that chaotic adds spell crit, which we are nowhere near capping, while agility is 1 AP + melee crit, where we are capped for white attacks.

Swapping the CSD for the RED and replacing the Enchanted Tear in the shoulders with a Quick King's Amber (20 Haste) shows as a 24 dps loss for me. If you have any ideas for swaps please follow the rules and sim out your changes and then post if they end up being a dps increase so we all can benefit.

Since I was playing I did try some other gems for that shoulder slot using the RED instead of the CSD. Quick is a dps loss but Bright (40AP) was a gain. Pristine (20AP/10Hit) was even more of a gain and Rigid (20 hit) surpassed that. So it does look like Rava should change out the meta to a RED and the shoulder should be socketed with a Rigid King's Amber.

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As far as I can tell, the elemental doesn't have a leash limiting it's movement. If it engages a target, it pretty much behaves like a pitbull. We haven't gotten to the professor yet, so I can't test it myself. Hope to do that Monday.

It definitely leashes on PP, but the additional fact is that you can't use Fire Nova on that fight if you drop the elemental, especially for P3 but also to a degree for P1, P2 as well, due to the amount of movement required. It might be worth using in the tail end of P3 as you're burning him down when slime is all over the room and you're more limited to a small area of movement.

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Just from memory from our last two kills, FE would leash back to it's totem when it's distance was roughly 3/4 of the distance of the room front to back, and about half the distance side to side.

I can confirm those results. I've been compensating by dropping FE in the middle of the room as I run madly from side to side (we're tanking under the, uh, tanks, so there's a lot of run time). Using that method I'm seeing pretty much 100% uptime, although obviously sacrificing the DPS from FN - given the global spam in that fight, I'm not sure whether I wouldn't be seeing higher DPS using MT/FN.

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I'm not sure what Fire Elementals have to do with BiS gear, but this conversation doesn't seem to belong in this thread.

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Regarding the BiS methodology for the static sim variables, as we come near the end of Icecrown and have a better handle on multiple mob fights, would it be worth incorporating the multiple mob feature of enh sim or should the focus remain on single target boss fights only? Multi mob factors were not really discussed in the FAQ, and since it is a relatively new feature of EnhSim it might be worth using, especially to determine the best viable raid DPS for boss fights, as some will include multiple mobs (Blood Princes for example)

I.e. If we determine that of all the ICC fights, approximately 15% of them incorporate multiple mobs, using that same percentage in the enh sim multi mob function.

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Blood Princes is still a single target fight. Only one prince has health at any given time, the other 2 have only one hit point.

Blood Queen is also a single target fight.

So far, the only fight with any mentionable AoE component is Deathwhisper, and even that is limited.

Valithria Dreamwalker may have some useful opportunities for AoE, and killing ice blocks on Sindragosa will definitely make good use of everyone's Area Effect damage. Though I suspect that much like Putricide, the only real DPS test will be in the final phase, when you have to burn her quickly to avoid the soft engrage, and so only our single target DPS will really matter.

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A quick rundown of bosses and multitarget capabilities:

Lord Marrowgar: Bone Spikes

Lady Deathwhisper: P1, Cultists, Adherents, Fanatics

Gunship: Post sorcerer death on the enemy ship you can get some time in on the rifleman/mortars. On the friendly ship the guys that spawn out of the portals.

Saurfang: Bloodbeasts

Festergut: None

Rotface: None

Putricide: If a slime manages to get within 10 yards of your fire totem and Putricide

Blood Princes: Depending on positioning multiple princes can be hit

Blood Queen: None

Valithria: Adds continually spawn throughout the fight

Sindragosa: None

Arthas: N/A

Now for the practicalities of each of those encounters:

Marrowgar: Very useful when bonespikes go out

Deathwhisper: Useful in P1, worthless in P2

Gunship: Useless damage in Normal on opposing ship, will need to see heroic to determine if the mobs actually need melee damage. While on friendly ship bladestorming mobs somewhat prevent melee from engaging.

Saurfang: Useless damage.

Festergut: -

Rotface: -

Putricide: I wouldn't call it star aligning for multitargeting to be useful, but it certainly isn't frequent enough(once, maybe twice per minute) to be called useful.

Blood Princes: Only the active Prince "takes damage". You will deal damage to the other princes, but it's all fluffer as they remain at 1 HP as a fight mechanic. Useless.

Blood Queen: -

Valithria: Useful when Surpressors spawn, otherwise useless as mobs are too spread out/spawn infrequently.

Sindragosa: -

Arthas: -

Out of all of those fights I see multitargeting capabilities useful(read: actually relevant) on three of them, and for fractions of the encounter. It's certainly something that can be implemented, I'm just not sure how something like 3 targets for 10 seconds every 60 seconds would be modeled.

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If we were to sim multiple mobs and a boss, then it would elevate expected DPS beyond that of a single target that is present in DPS checks (ie single target dps). True it is part of our DPS, but the numbers would certainly be small if it is factored. Just how small, I attempted to figure it out by the best of my knowledge.

Marrowgar and Deathwhisper are the only bosses I would call it useful. Gunship, as mentioned, really doesn't matter as much beyond killing whatever is on your ship or the below zero mage on the enemy ship since the fight is based on the turret operators.

Giving some times for the fights may help if it is added. Figure the AoE fights may take 7 minutes total. The single target fights (excluding Gunship...I have been able to raid the Blood Prince or Queen fights yet) but the first and second wing may be about 20 minutes of actual boss contact. So maybe 27 minutes total if raid DPS is lower than the shaman.

For people in BiS gear in normal mode fights the times would be less but could very well be longer in heroic.

Figure the bone spikes are up for 10 seconds and 2 are always in melee at a rate of 3 per minute, and 3 targets in Deathwhisper are up for 20 seconds for about 60% or so of the fight at a rate of 1 set per minute...a little bit of dirty math gives real AoE dps time around 3 minutes.

11.1% (repeating of course) [or 6 seconds of every minute] of the time dealing with 3 mobs. The percent of the time will go down below 10% depend on the duration of the Blood Queen and Prince fights. Then there is the question of how does EnhSim target and do damage to these mobs (run time, if any input, in the sim to the mobs plus 'single target' or 'just uses fire nova while staying on the boss' or 'single targets and uses fire nova more often').

Bottom line: 6 seconds of every minute looking at all of the fights minus the newest wing...you could hit fire nova 1 time and possibly crit 3 more mobs.

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Blood Princes is still a single target fight. Only one prince has health at any given time, the other 2 have only one hit point.

While they only have 1 hit point, you still do full damage to them. Granted with the current accepted strategy you never have them beside each other, so AoEing isnt an option anyways. However if there was ever a time they were beside each other, it would be a way to fluff your numbers!

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While they only have 1 hit point, you still do full damage to them. Granted with the current accepted strategy you never have them beside each other, so AoEing isnt an option anyways. However if there was ever a time they were beside each other, it would be a way to fluff your numbers!

Doing damage to 2 mobs in this fight does not help beat the encounter, so I think the point is moot. On a side note, "our" guilds strategy has us tanking Taladran and Valanar together for easier/faster switching and avoiding having melee get targeted with Conjure Flame.

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(and single cast SoE/WF when FE is up).

I have one of my calls set with no fire totem for instances of re-dropping during FE time, as well as if I want to set totems without magma pre-pull (read: Algalon).

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I have one of my calls set with no fire totem for instances of re-dropping during FE time, as well as if I want to set totems without magma pre-pull (read: Algalon).

Yes I currently do to as well. I didn't, however, have the foresight to set that on our first kill. Regardless the globals spent re dropping totems during that fight is just terrible.

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Just a few questions in regards to BiS;

Is the idea behind increasing the number of hit gems, trying to facilitate a faster ramp up to Maelstorm Weapon? As I am sitting adding that much more hit to my current spec only gains a shaving of .05 sec for the effect, and only marginal dps increase on hits. The primary reason for asking this is because I am constantly switching out gems from Hit to Haste, to Ap, to Ap/Haste, and now back to Hit and Haste. If these values only lend themselves to the BiS gear, then I am fine, but what does one do in the mean time?

Also Quote (***Heroic Necrotic Touch is now being modeled properly. Be sure you are using it.) Does this only apply to Enhsim, or is it actually implemented in the game, and reflected properly, and on the Non-heroic version, or does one have to wait for the Heroic version? I am not clear if these values were to be used only in a sim enviroment, or to direct us to items to seek out and use effectively.

Due to an increase in crit based gear this week and from looking over the (Crit Cap discussion), I have gemmed almost all of my slots with 20ap/10hit and I sit at .25% over hit cap. Thanks for the info.

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The number of hit gems taking the +hit total to higher than the conventional spell hit cap is to mitigate the effect of being over the melee crit cap when elemental devastation procs, I believe.

Once you are over the melee crit cap any extra +hit will be converted straight to +crit. This increases the relative benefit of gemming +hit once you reach this point. Further discussion in this thread: http://elitistpatrons.com/f79/t87972-enhancement_critical_cap_analysis_tow_hotc/

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If these values only lend themselves to the BiS gear, then I am fine, but what does one do in the mean time?

Also Quote (***Heroic Necrotic Touch is now being modeled properly. Be sure you are using it.) Does this only apply to Enhsim, or is it actually implemented in the game, and reflected properly, and on the Non-heroic version, or does one have to wait for the Heroic version? I am not clear if these values were to be used only in a sim enviroment, or to direct us to items to seek out and use effectively.

First part: Sim and find the best gems for your own gear. I suspect AP and / or haste gems will benefit your gear the most since you are under the crit cap (see post above for explanation).

Second part: That applies to EnhSim. The game itself is always correct in modeling since the sim is based off of the game. In EnhSim check the box under 'Gear Details' for the correct proc. Currently Rawr exports will set the correct proc.

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This question is in regard to flame shock simming higher than straight up earth shock. I know on bosses and fights where the full duration can expire on the target is supposed to have higher dps. But do you guys use it. I can't seem to result more dps from it nor do any logs I see from my buddies guilds boss fights, they straight up don't use it. I was thinking about picking up the flame shock totem but after talking with friends and reviewing logs, it don't seem with it.

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Yes people use it. No it is not a huge damage increase, but it is an increase. Luckily SAA has a timer for the dot, so it's easy to not overwrite it.

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Adding Flame Shock to your priority list on it's own isn't hugely worth it as it really is only like a 50dps increase on long duration fights, and that's IF you don't overwrite it early. With the glyph it becomes more viable though I don't think it's really worth it, and considering Bizuri's is quite a step up in damage, from the Totem of the Avalanche (ramp-up time is also better on boss fights at least), it would be worth adding FS to your queue if you intend on buying the totem.

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Adding Flame Shock to your priority list on it's own isn't hugely worth it as it really is only like a 50dps increase on long duration fights, and that's IF you don't overwrite it early. With the glyph it becomes more viable though I don't think it's really worth it, and considering Bizuri's is quite a step up in damage, from the Totem of the Avalanche (ramp-up time is also better on boss fights at least), it would be worth adding FS to your queue if you intend on buying the totem.

But if you have five to ten small things in you playstyle that each would be worth 50 dps in long duration fights, then that would accumulate into a notable margin. And this particular playstyle change doesn't even require much from you. So why not do it? Plus this thread is all about maximizing your gear and playstyle all the way to these small 20-50dps increases.

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Flame Shock glyph becomes a bad option versus other glyphs when you break 4T9. Using Flame Shock in your rotation is still a dps increase if you can get all the ticks from the DoT, so that totem remains a good option even once you break your 4pc. Personally, I went with Avalanche because I still enjoy the BGs and I'm not sure I have ever Flame Shocked anything in there except maybe a random rogue to prevent restealthing. Stormstrike on the other hand is used all the time in every aspect of the game.

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Flame Shock glyph becomes a bad option versus other glyphs when you break 4T9. Using Flame Shock in your rotation is still a dps increase if you can get all the ticks from the DoT, so that totem remains a good option even once you break your 4pc. Personally, I went with Avalanche because I still enjoy the BGs and I'm not sure I have ever Flame Shocked anything in there except maybe a random rogue to prevent restealthing. Stormstrike on the other hand is used all the time in every aspect of the game.

True, but if your a pve maniac like me flame shock Totem is much better since it can be used for all 3 specs. Good for enhan, elem and resto.

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