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Epoché

Prince Keleseth Tanking Discussion (Moved from the 3.3 Compendium)

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Tonight my guild got its first attempts in on the Blood Prince Council. I was specced for tanking Keleseth as suggested, but had some trouble because I occasionally took melee blows from him and promptly died. I was wondering if any warlocks out there that successfully executed ranged tanking Keleseth could offer a few tips. The main problem I experienced was the fact that whilst running around collecting Dark Nuclei and experiencing the slow effect, he caught up to me and bashed me pretty hard. Do you guys stay on the outskirts of the room all the time?

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Tonight my guild got its first attempts in on the Blood Prince Council. I was specced for tanking Keleseth as suggested, but had some trouble because I occasionally took melee blows from him and promptly died. I was wondering if any warlocks out there that successfully executed ranged tanking Keleseth could offer a few tips. The main problem I experienced was the fact that whilst running around collecting Dark Nuclei and experiencing the slow effect, he caught up to me and bashed me pretty hard. Do you guys stay on the outskirts of the room all the time?

I was our warlock tank for our kill tonight. I was specced just as PvP Destro wearing PvP gear.

We found that having me run around getting Dark Nuclei didn't work well. Remember that third tank you have for Putricide, who isn't terrible useful here? He basically spent the fight running around the room grabbing them and ferrying them to me. I would then Immolate it to get aggro on it, and he would get more. The mage keeping Kinetic bombs up also brought them to me, so I didn't have to move and was able to generate aggro on the boss for when everyone switches to him.

I stayed off to the side of the main raid. You need to be away from everyone else or else there is the risk that the Dark Nuclei will change targets, which happened our first attempt, when i was in Keleseth's melee range. But after I stayed away from the boss and had the Nuclei brought to me, it was pretty easy to build enough aggro on the boss before everyone switches to him.

Hope some of this is useful to you and other warlocks. Good Luck =D

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Tonight my guild got its first attempts in on the Blood Prince Council. I was specced for tanking Keleseth as suggested, but had some trouble because I occasionally took melee blows from him and promptly died. I was wondering if any warlocks out there that successfully executed ranged tanking Keleseth could offer a few tips. The main problem I experienced was the fact that whilst running around collecting Dark Nuclei and experiencing the slow effect, he caught up to me and bashed me pretty hard. Do you guys stay on the outskirts of the room all the time?

I tanked Keleseth as 0/56/15 once we had a wipe working out the gimmicks.

He does follow you round the room however he won't run into melee range of you by himself. However, if you run into his melee range he will melee you and probably one shot you.

The debuff from the Nuclei is multiplicative not additive so at 3 stacks you are taking 27% shadow damage, 4 stacks 18% and so on down to 5% at 7 stacks (the most I managed to get). On top of this damage reduction various warlock talents can reduce damage taken it further (Molten Skin, Soul Link, Nether Protection, Master Demonologist) as well as Shadow Ward obviously.

I found myself running around the room a lot however I think a better strategy would be to make liberal use of misdirects and tricks to get the farther Nuclei onto you. Despite the running around and lower personal threat due to being Demo I had no threat issues at all, almost certainly because DPS would only spend 1/3rd of their time on Keleseth. So really, any spec of warlock will work fine for tanking, damage reduction or stamina talents HELP (especially Soul Link) but aren't essential. If it's not going to be a warlock your best other choices would probably be a Shadow Priest or Hunter (in that order) rather than mage/moonkin/elemental.

Getting the achievement for the encounter hinges on having plenty of Nuclei stacks for when Keleseth is empowered . Use any absorb cooldowns you have available on the first one as it can be difficult to have 4+ that early in the fight. After that just focus on keeping as many Nuclei as possible and you should get it.

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Tonight my guild got its first attempts in on the Blood Prince Council. I was specced for tanking Keleseth as suggested, but had some trouble because I occasionally took melee blows from him and promptly died. I was wondering if any warlocks out there that successfully executed ranged tanking Keleseth could offer a few tips. The main problem I experienced was the fact that whilst running around collecting Dark Nuclei and experiencing the slow effect, he caught up to me and bashed me pretty hard. Do you guys stay on the outskirts of the room all the time?

What slow effect is this?

I did not see any slow effect in 10 man. It was pretty easy to run around and collect basically every single nucleus on the map.

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What slow effect is this?

I did not see any slow effect in 10 man. It was pretty easy to run around and collect basically every single nucleus on the map.

The 20% slow from glittering sparks, perhaps? Granted, that shouldn't be on anyone but the Taldaram tank if things are going well, but it's easy to get if you don't know beforehand to avoid it.

And to Epoché, Keleseth seems to prefer casting to melee, as the only time he hit me was when I ran into his melee range thanks to the six huge balloons clogging up my screen. So if you didn't accidentally do that, I'm not sure what the problem might have been. His shadow lances aren't interruptable, are they?

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The blue orbs instantly jump to a million threat on anyone who damages them -- you can simply use 1 tick of drain life to stick them to you. You can also have someone ferry them across the room, like a shadow priest who can dot/run around. Our shadow priest used 1 tick of mind flay to stick an orb to him and would ferry them over, and I would 1tick drain life to stick them on me.

I decided to make a silly fun spec and went affliction/demo with siphon life/soul link and a few glyphs. It worked out fine.

To slightly deviate from a prior poster -- mages do make decent tanks for this if they spec into improved mage armor and prismatic core they'll end up with an effective 25%ish damage reduction vs shadow similar to a warlock (of course no demon armor or life draining). They can blink around the room and also have fast casts to pick up orbs, as well as fire ward to help with occasional fire ball danger. With incanter's absorption and a disc priest on them they'll also have a very large spell power buff while tanking this.

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Tonight my guild got its first attempts in on the Blood Prince Council. I was specced for tanking Keleseth as suggested, but had some trouble because I occasionally took melee blows from him and promptly died. I was wondering if any warlocks out there that successfully executed ranged tanking Keleseth could offer a few tips. The main problem I experienced was the fact that whilst running around collecting Dark Nuclei and experiencing the slow effect, he caught up to me and bashed me pretty hard. Do you guys stay on the outskirts of the room all the time?

Our demonology warlock tank also died to melee hits when trying to collect Dark Nuclei. After that, we had him stand in the middle of the room.

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I tanked Keleseth as 0/56/15 once we had a wipe working out the gimmicks.

He does follow you round the room however he won't run into melee range of you by himself. However, if you run into his melee range he will melee you and probably one shot you.

The debuff from the Nuclei is multiplicative not additive so at 3 stacks you are taking 27% shadow damage, 4 stacks 18% and so on down to 5% at 7 stacks (the most I managed to get). On top of this damage reduction various warlock talents can reduce damage taken it further (Molten Skin, Soul Link, Nether Protection, Master Demonologist) as well as Shadow Ward obviously.

I found myself running around the room a lot however I think a better strategy would be to make liberal use of misdirects and tricks to get the farther Nuclei onto you. Despite the running around and lower personal threat due to being Demo I had no threat issues at all, almost certainly because DPS would only spend 1/3rd of their time on Keleseth. So really, any spec of warlock will work fine for tanking, damage reduction or stamina talents HELP (especially Soul Link) but aren't essential. If it's not going to be a warlock your best other choices would probably be a Shadow Priest or Hunter (in that order) rather than mage/moonkin/elemental.

Getting the achievement for the encounter hinges on having plenty of Nuclei stacks for when Keleseth is empowered . Use any absorb cooldowns you have available on the first one as it can be difficult to have 4+ that early in the fight. After that just focus on keeping as many Nuclei as possible and you should get it.

I asked a hunter to MD the nuclei to me and it didn't work. Obviously he could have just messed up, but it seems that the nuclei dont respond to MD so we used them on Keleseth instead to help me hold aggro while I was running around the room.

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I asked a hunter to MD the nuclei to me and it didn't work. Obviously he could have just messed up, but it seems that the nuclei dont respond to MD so we used them on Keleseth instead to help me hold aggro while I was running around the room.

We managed the ten man achievement (Orb whisperer) in my guild run yesterday and I can say that MD didn't work for us either, we also used it to help me hold aggro of Keleseth while it was the target for the rest of the dps.

I had between 6-7 nuclei on me the whole time (except for at the start as they were building up) and as said the main problem was all the moving around. Metamorphisis charge and summoning portal are very useful for this fight as a warlock tank.

Melee hits will, indeed, one shot you. Usually around 30-35k.

And once again, you do not need a specific spec or glyphs to tank this fight, I did it fine in 0/56/15.

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We managed the ten man achievement (Orb whisperer) in my guild run yesterday and I can say that MD didn't work for us either, we also used it to help me hold aggro of Keleseth while it was the target for the rest of the dps.

I had between 6-7 nuclei on me the whole time (except for at the start as they were building up) and as said the main problem was all the moving around. Metamorphisis charge and summoning portal are very useful for this fight as a warlock tank.

Melee hits will, indeed, one shot you. Usually around 30-35k.

And once again, you do not need a specific spec or glyphs to tank this fight, I did it fine in 0/56/15.

Did this last night 10 man, it took ~10 attempts and we got Orb Whisperer. I respeced into a destro / pvp variant spec especially for this fight, picking soul link, nether protection, molten armor, etc - which the healers said helped a lot. I had ~25k hp and empowered lances were hitting for 6k.

It seems that the dark nuclei follow whoever hit them last. I used rank 1 corruption on them to keep them tagged which worked really well. I spent a fair bit of time running around to pickup nucleii but it wasn't a problem. The only catch as others have stated is that if you run within melee range he'll one-shot you.

If the nucleii spawned miles away I got the dps to tag them and bring them to me when they got the chance, particularly when they have to switch to damaging my boss.

Another point worth noting is an imp is sufficient to keep one kinetic orb up all the time (at least in 10 man). We often had two orbs up, so setting the imp on one of them helps loads.

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You should be able to collect the orbs yourself and not waste another player's dps. Just have your base position fairly in the center and then be conscientious of where your healer is.

Also make sure to tell people not to heart strike, cleave, searing totem, maul glyph, etc if they get close to orbs.

Anyway, I don't think a warlock is that much better of a tank for this than other classes. DKs have the health pool, the cooldowns, and enough ranged attacks to collect orbs himself. Only downside may be threat. Moonkin, Shadowpriest, Mage, and others can tank as well.

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Anyway, I don't think a warlock is that much better of a tank for this than other classes. DKs have the health pool, the cooldowns, and enough ranged attacks to collect orbs himself. Only downside may be threat. Moonkin, Shadowpriest, Mage, and others can tank as well.

Certainly others could tank, but the 0/56/15 standard raiding spec warlock really would be the simplest option (w/o respecing) due to searing pain threat modifiers, and soul link and felhunter combined 30% spell damage reduction.

On a side note, this is the action priority list I would advocate:

(1) Gain decent threat lead in first 20 seconds

(2) Stay out of melee range

(3) Gather ALL orbs you can reasonably get to (< 3-5 seconds run)

(3) Avoid flames and vortexs

(4) Damage on real attack target

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I tanked him last night as 0/56/15, i had my felpuppy out and just set him on him as we fought. all i did was CoE him and Searing Pain to pull. the rest of the fight id use a searing pain to pull The orbs to me and any other raid members ran to me, and to hold aggro just hit him with one SB than spammed Soul Fire for threat worked out perfect. it took me a couple wipes to get this down but on the 4th try we got him down fairly easy.

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I played the ranged tank role for Prince Keleseth in 25 man last night as Destruction. My average damage taken per empowered Shadow Lance was 4650. Nether protection had a 60% up time and combined with Soul Link gave me an average 35% damage mitigation. Orb pickup was primarily performed with searing pain due to the quick cast, low damage, and 36 yard range.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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I have not used searing pain for threat on anything in wotlk, which is pretty much Mimiron, the Jormungar twin, and this (and some joke attempts on bosses where I'm trying to pull off tanks). Conflag gives the best early threat, and you get a ton more damage using the regular rotation.

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We used a paladin for Prince Keleseth, our warlock was dying every attempt due to unlucky vortex knockback or healers not able to top him off before the next bolt, so we switched him out for a prot pally who dragged him around the room collecting orbs and we 1 shot with the new tanking method.

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I suggest using rank 1 Curse of Agony to get aggro on the Dark Nucleus, it does low damage, ticks every 2 seconds and lasts 24 seconds. I had no problem collecting and keeping the clouds on me using CoA.

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If pvp destro, do you recommend having the imp or the voidwalker for the added survivability?

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I tanked for both 10 and 25 man as a modified spec of the pve affliction. Instead of going 15 or 16 points in destro, i put the points into demo, using the regular pvp points, and putting 1 point in master summoner incase my pet died. So make sure u have soul link and such.

Other than that, i dps the boss consistently keeping a rolling corruption on him and running around collecting every orb with a corruption, killing off others by putting one or two dots on. i then dps the other bosses while collecting all orbs.

I did not get melee'd just watch where the boss is and there is no problem.

On a side note, watch out if you get knocked back from the other boss you may get knocked into melee range

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In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.

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In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.

This probably has to do with the positioning. We were tanking the melee princes in the middle of the room, so like you I had no time to do much other than run around the perimeter collecting orbs. I can believe that if you are tanking Keleseth in the middle and/or allowing the raid to ferry orbs to you then you would be able to help on the other bosses.

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In 25 man I had no time at all to actually DPS the other bosses while juggling gathering up the dark nuclei and generating threat on Keleseth for when he becomes active. Anyone actually able to juggle all three tasks? I kept having the other DPS say threat was a huge issue for them when I was attempting to DPS the other active targets. The majority of the time I was really just running around trying to keep 5 orbs on me.

At first yes, then i started using Meta and pre potting on pull and spammed searing pain. I also ignored the dark nuclei at the start to get a threat lead on Keleseth. The threat lead i gained at the start allowed me to focus more on the nuclei mid fight.

On a side note the threat on the nuclei seems odd. I think they just gain 1k threat on whoever was the last person to hit them, regardless of what it is you do to them ( which makes picking them up extremely easy )

For mitigation I used glyph of soul link, 3/3 molten skin and a felhunter with master demonologist and overall it felt like overkill.

I'm curious how this will work on heroic where the incoming damage will be higher and I think less nuclei will be up.

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I was Meta (56/15) spec for tanking this, being as I'm the only lock in our guild right now. Wore PvP gear, had 32k HP. Anyways, at the start of the fight I would searing pain 1-2 times for a quick bit of threat, then shadowbolt>soulfirex1,000,000. As demonology you can chain cast soulfires the whole time he's not empowered (he is always at 1 hp therefore sub-35%) so I just go Meta form at the beginning of the fight and spam damage into him with a hunter misdirecting me on CD, never had any threat problems using that strategy.

As for the orbs, I found corruption worked wonderfully for tagging them, and I had no problems keeping aggro on them. I organized with my healer to run around the room grabbing orbs with me and we communicated a lot to stay out of vortexes on the ground. After a few trial-and-error attempts it went down like clockwork and we got The Orb Whisperer. :)

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I have found that Keleseth on the 25-man version sometimes moves towards you between casts, and if you're unlucky (read going towards a dark nucleus) and happen to pass by his side, he melees you. This was annoying as I had problems seeing him under all those nucleus.

As for the gear, I just equipped both 170-stam brewfest trinkets and normal gear, without any damage reducing talent besides Soul Link. Worked just fine.

About the imp and the kinetic orbs; we lost one of our trys for Lana'thel because the imp pulled the orb above the ceiling to lana'thel's room and pulled her. Fun times...

Edit: forgot about the spec; used a normal 3/14/54 for it. Only problem was keeping enough agro on him as we killed him on our first try on 25. One rank 7 Searing Pain was enough to keep all the dark nucleus glued to me.

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