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Cryect

Druids and Aggro Generation

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Let me get this straight. Did I just read that right?

Having dropped Leatherworking (ok, wasn't that painful but still) and levelled Enchanting to 260-ish (that was painful) so I could make a Smoking Heart of the Mountain, am I now supposed to drop Alchemy and level Jewelcrafting to 375 to be able to make a Figurine - Dawnstone Crab? Or is there an alternate tanking trinket out there of equivalent utility?

Does Blizzard really hate us that much? Do they think this is funny?

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Let me get this straight. Did I just read that right?

Having dropped Leatherworking (ok, wasn't that painful but still) and levelled Enchanting to 260-ish (that was painful) so I could make a Smoking Heart of the Mountain, am I now supposed to drop Alchemy and level Jewelcrafting to 375 to be able to make a Figurine - Dawnstone Crab? Or is there an alternate tanking trinket out there of equivalent utility?

Does Blizzard really hate us that much? Do they think this is funny?

Hell, I'm a Druid and I think it's funny.

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Hell, I'm a Druid and I think it's funny.

Isn't SHotM better anyway?

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does anyone have numbers on how much threat (if any) applying Faerie Fire in bear form causes, and if it's worth re-applying it every cooldown?

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Let me get this straight. Did I just read that right?

Having dropped Leatherworking (ok, wasn't that painful but still) and levelled Enchanting to 260-ish (that was painful) so I could make a Smoking Heart of the Mountain, am I now supposed to drop Alchemy and level Jewelcrafting to 375 to be able to make a Figurine - Dawnstone Crab? Or is there an alternate tanking trinket out there of equivalent utility?

Does Blizzard really hate us that much? Do they think this is funny?

I'd be happy if they itemised an epic AC trinket (250-300+AC, defense, agi, dodge, stam) in jewel crafting, and made it BoP but not unique. Sure it would mean some stupid grinding, but I'm used to that by now, at least it would mean there's a trinket out there that's an upgrade.

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The thing I find most interesting is the threat+damage v mitigation system that seems to naturally evolve and I'll be damned if I didn't wish warriors had some mythical stances like cat/bear that mirrored this functionality. As a Mage I've been annoyed countless times working with perfectly capable and competent Warriors doing trash content, who obviously prefer to tank in dps gear and more often than not in battle/'zerker. If they wear tanking gear, they get no rage. If they wear dps gear, they hate to stay in defensive and generally are specced for fury dps anyhow. Sadly dps-tanking for the cash-farming or mats-farming old 5-mans is all well and good but I still end up being the tank for almost everything unless we just AE the crap out of multi-pulls. A tank that scales threat with damage (while giving up mitigation) is a dream for that sort of thing. Also, having so many percentage-based multipliers is certainly a nice thing indeed.

Fighting more than one mob I would not be surprised if arms spec using sweeping strikes, cleave and whirlwind and a big twohander is the best way to keep aggro.

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While being a good way to generate agro, it is also a good way to die. Serious tanking means the mobs hit so hard you need to use a shield.

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Just in case anyone else is interested can confirm that, in the case of the idol of Ferocity at least and therefore assumedly other feral idols, multipliers for the normal damage also apply to the idol bonus damage.

Test done with Rake and new Idol of Ferocity (+20 damage to claw/rake) on latest beta build:

Initial direct damage without talents: 89

Idol and no talents: 109

Savage Fury: 108

Savage Fury with Idol: 132

Savage Fury, Natural Weapons: 118

Savage Fury, Natural Weapons with Idol: 144

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I regret to bump an old topic, but I'm curious if this might be updated with the new threat values for maul and swipe. What I'm really curious about is lacerate - How much threat is added with the APPLICATION of lacerate, and how much do you have to wait for? I wonder, because as I stack more agility(dodge), my rage generation goes down. I'm looking for something of an ideal cycle to build threat in the beginning. Essetially, is it better to use my rage on maul or lacerate?

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As the weeks have gone by, I've been using lacerate less and less. I can hold rock-solid aggro with mangle, maul and swipe.

The main reason I've stopped using lacerate so much is how annoying it is to maintain an optimal 5 stack. You want to time it just right so that you refresh the stack at the last minute. For some reason, if I wait until there's less than 3s left on the existing stack, my stack won't refresh (maybe this is a problem with my timer bar addons, who knows). So then you aim for over 3s left of so, but then you get frustrated when your lacerates are dodged, parried, or misses and you have to waste a lot of rage and a lot of global cooldowns to start over. So then you start aiming for over 6s left of so, and that's when I realized that I did not want to put up with the hassle.

Pre-TBC I could hold aggro fine with maul + swipe as a rage dump. My strat now is mangle every time it's up, and maul and swipe as rage dumps. A lot of the time I have plenty of rage, so I'm queuing up maul every attack, and spamming swipe in between mangle cooldowns. Works great so far, with much less hassle and frustration. Works on any type of mob too.

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I've experienced some similar levels of hassle with lacerate in terms of getting/keeping a decent stack up - it's lovely when you occasionally get it going properly but the relatively small window of usage to remain optimal's rather frustrating meaning you either have it lapse sometimes or delay using other abilites (mangle for example which ought to be used immediately on cooldown in most situations) while trying to refresh it.

If nothing else I have found it serves as a good rage dump in situations with crowd controlled mobs when needing a rage dump though - did a bit of tanking in Karazhan last couple of days with a fair number of shackled mobs around making swipe a definite no go at times so being able to dump rage into something, even if often not always very effectively, was a great option on those few non bleed immune mobs we've met so far.

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I've abandoned using lacerate altogether and just maul/mangle and swipe if I'm rage capped. Absolutely zero aggro issues, I dare my dps to try to pull it off me and they can't. I'm convinced lacerate is fully pointless.

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Well your DPS needs to deal more DPS then because with Maul, Mangle, Swipe spam alone on several mobs in karazhan with detaunts I would lose aggro but with Lacerate I dont which makes sense considering Swipe is less threat than a Lacerate before the Swipe threat nerf.

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Well your DPS needs to deal more DPS then because with Maul, Mangle, Swipe spam alone on several mobs in karazhan with detaunts I would lose aggro but with Lacerate I dont which makes sense considering Swipe is less threat than a Lacerate before the Swipe threat nerf.

I tried lacerate on each of the 3 bosses we fought last night that I tanked (huntsman, maiden, and moroes) and all were immune to it. Undead don't bleed.

That said, I probably wouldn't have used it much even were they not immune to it.

Obviously if a boss has a deaggro things change, none of these did; moroes came straight back to me after the vanish each time. Perhaps there are bosses further in which significantly deaggro which make the extra threat from lacerate useful.

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Heh, not talking about bosses actually. Thinking of the Ethereal Thieves. Tanking bosses and holding aggro on one without a detaunt is easy because in general you have tons of rage. But, none of the bosses have a detaunt in Karazhan that I can think of.

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Let me get this straight. Did I just read that right?

Having dropped Leatherworking (ok, wasn't that painful but still) and levelled Enchanting to 260-ish (that was painful) so I could make a Smoking Heart of the Mountain, am I now supposed to drop Alchemy and level Jewelcrafting to 375 to be able to make a Figurine - Dawnstone Crab? Or is there an alternate tanking trinket out there of equivalent utility?

Does Blizzard really hate us that much? Do they think this is funny?

Dawnstone doesn't look that good to me. Mark of Tyranny is still the best.... 6% dodge on command is OK i guess, but its only 6%. Over the course of 20 seconds, you might dodge one extra attack due to it.

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Well your DPS needs to deal more DPS then because with Maul, Mangle, Swipe spam alone on several mobs in karazhan with detaunts I would lose aggro but with Lacerate I dont which makes sense considering Swipe is less threat than a Lacerate before the Swipe threat nerf.

I'm convinced that this quote is made up, because the overwhelming majority of things in karazhan, trash or otherwise, is immune to lacerate. The things that aren't immune aren't even dangerous.

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As the weeks have gone by, I've been using lacerate less and less. I can hold rock-solid aggro with mangle, maul and swipe.

The main reason I've stopped using lacerate so much is how annoying it is to maintain an optimal 5 stack. You want to time it just right so that you refresh the stack at the last minute.

Lacereate threat generation is both innate and from using the DoT. Every time you reapply Lacerate, you instantly generate an amount of threat. Lacerate isn't 100% threat from the bleed damage, its also partly innate.

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I don't get where the Lacerate hate comes from. I mostly suffer of rage-dryness in 5 mans so I just spam Lacerate instead of anything else and even if it goes above 5 stacks I seem to hold agro just perfect. As far I can say it clearly generates agro after 5 stacks and outperforms maul/swipe by quite a bit. Would be really pleased if someone finally figures out how the whole Lacerate thing works in general.

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I don't get where the Lacerate hate comes from. I mostly suffer of rage-dryness in 5 mans so I just spam Lacerate instead of anything else and even if it goes above 5 stacks I seem to hold agro just perfect. As far I can say it clearly generates agro after 5 stacks and outperforms maul/swipe by quite a bit. Would be really pleased if someone finally figures out how the whole Lacerate thing works in general.

My Paladin is on Kul Tiras as well. If you happen to play alliance, we could do the tests together in a week (leaving for Austria tonight, so im a week away)?

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