Fire Cataclysm Discussion: OP Updated for Release
Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:29 PM
Fireball grants 5% crit and FFB gives 15% damage (which makes it equal unglyphed Fireball) and the dot which in Blizzard's mind should at some point equal the 5% crit as to if that would happen or not I don't know, but at the moment with the gear sets we know of and the talents being what they are it's not there.
The only reason to cast Fireball when you have FFB glyph was when the glyphs were bugged and you could realistically get both Fireball and Frostfire. They even cost the same in mana which was not the case pre 4.x.
For instance on my mage Fireball is tooltiped (the new tooltips are extremely accurate as far as I've seen up till now) as 6347-6631; while a _glyphed_ FFB is 6345-6630 so it's for all intents and purposes the same damage.
Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:35 PM
Where are you getting the idea that 34% crit is some kind of magic number for fire specs? Even if this were some kind of plateau point for Hot Streak, which I don't think it is, everything else that's tied to crit would work just as well. There's no reason to ever drop Glyph of Pyroblast.
Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:56 PM
Primary Nuke: Fireball VS Frostfire Bolt
Fire Mages can cast either Fireball or Frostfire Bolt as primary nuke in their rotation. The most recent findings place Fireball as the superior primary nuke. However, the DPS difference between using Frostfire Bolt and Fireball as primary nuke is trivial: Less than 1%. Why's the difference so small?
- Fireball and Frostfire Bolt cost the same amount of mana
- Fireball and (Glyphed) Frostfire bolt do the same amount of damage
The only other notable difference stems from Glyph of Fireball and Glyph of Frostfire. Glyph of Frostfire Bolt adds 3% damage (stacks 3 times) whereas Glyph of Fireball adds 5% crit. The periodic damage of (Glyphed) Frostfire Bolt can also crit, leaving an ignite for additional damage.
For expected Tier 11 levels of gear and combat ratings, the 5% crit from Fireballs Glyph is very slightly superior to the extra damage from Frostfire Bolts Glyph. There's no other difference, aside from aesthetics.
Glyphed Frostfire Bolt's DOT damage is affected by the Flashburn mastery. Future levels of tier gear with higher combat ratings may therefore cause the situation to change. However, for entry level and Tier 11 Cataclysm content, we can sum the Frostfire VS Fireball Primary nuke debate up in 2 points:
- Fireball as primary nuke is better, but only very slightly. The difference between this and Frostfire bolt is trivial. You could be forgiven for choosing the spell you find most pleasing visually.
- Maybe in future tiers Frostfire bolt will prove a superior option, but not for Tier 11 gear and combat ratings.
For interest, does anyone have an idea of what sort of Combat ratings levels are needed for Frostfire Bolt (Via the Glyph) to unquestionablly become the superior primary nuke? Tier 12, 13 - or so far down the track it's not something to even consider on the radar for the foreseeable future?
Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:49 PM
Posted 06 December 2010 - 12:05 AM
Posted 06 December 2010 - 12:55 PM
I don't know if the simulators account for this in their rotations, but even with current results, the 2 setups are so close that it should be at least considered as a viable alternative. FFB also provides an additional DOT to spread to improve Pyromaniac uptime, but if that talent is really as worthless as previous posts suggest, that might be disregarded.
Posted 06 December 2010 - 01:56 PM
It should be possible to maintain the DOT during regenarative Scorching, which should cushion a bit of the damage loss in comparison to a Fireball setup
That's a good point. I can think of several raid fights on Beta where which have extended periods of heavy (or non-stop) movement. Atromedes air phase, Ascendant Council phase 2 to start with.
Frostfire Bolt there could keep the DOT up relatively easily, whilst weaving Scorch in rotation for the movement required, as you said. We'll definetely need to be mindful of this in future when considering whether FFB as primary nuke might be superior for specific encounters.
Posted 06 December 2010 - 02:10 PM
The primary drawback of haste is mana consumption though why not go for non-haste equipment as long as mana is a huge concern.
Edit: the main reason for this idea is of course, less mana consumption means more FFB`s than Scorches and with mastery it synergizes well, with less casts but more impacting dot`s. Though more out of every cast.
Posted 06 December 2010 - 05:57 PM
This link will assist you greatly in choosing gear for your Fire mage: Gearing your Fire Mage
This link uses the current values of each Combat Rating for a Level 85 Fire Mage to calculate an overall Item Score. This score can be used to quickly compare items. These stat values are current as of the latest Simulationcraft results, but may be subject to tweaks / improvements in future. Notice that some items on the list have Spirit. Although this is useless for Mages, it's included in case you have no other non-spirit equivalent gear to wear.
For a greater understanding of Combat Ratings, and why items such as Crit are valued so highly by Fire mages, read the rest of this post.
A section on Rotations should be edited in at some point, too. Is there anything else that the OP currently neglects to mention which should be included?
Posted 06 December 2010 - 06:27 PM
Posted 06 December 2010 - 07:27 PM
The new thread is solely aimed at discussing Fire in a level 85 context. Level 80 is a thing of the past, beta is over, and this thread is now cluttered with outdated discussion. Information surrounding level 80 mechanics has been edited out. The new thread will take over as our central Level 85 Fire resource.
Can one of the EJ mods please lock this thread.
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