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# Current proc rate of Alchemy specializations

57 replies to this topic

### #1 Hamlet

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:16 PM

Is there some good info by now as to exactly what they are?

### #2 subbawt

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:20 PM

This is by no means exact, but I've had both elixirs and potions made in bulk (100+), and I always end up with between 15 and 20% extra.

### #3 suicuique

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 09:06 AM

My experience tells the same. Slightly above 10% would be my guess.

But now that you say it, I'll start collecting (rough) data ... thats easily done (IF the proc chance does not depend on the level of the potion/elixier created)

### #4 Morthandeus

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:43 AM

I've got two masteries (Potions and Transmute) and kept records.

Potions:
1x result 82%
2x result 16%
3x result 1%
4x result 0.5%
5x result 0.5%

Transmute:
1x result 71%
2x result 29%
3x result 0%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

Also another guild member kept records of Transmutations
1x result 84%
2x result 14%
3x result 2%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

### #5 Tehehe

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:00 PM

I've got two masteries (Potions and Transmute) and kept records.

### #6 songster

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:08 PM

Edit: being boneheaded - by "1x", you mean that the mastery didn't proc...

The simplest model would be a single probability to proc, and that it can then proc off itself, thus generating 2x, 3x... etc. procs. Presumably capped at a quad-proc (i.e. 5 items), since I've never heard of getting more than that.

The above figures are roughly consistent with a 15% proc probability, but there's a lot of variability, presumably due to the sample size.

### #7 Rius

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:11 PM

His non-proc percentage is the percentage of time he only got x1 results.

I mean, it's right there in front of you =P

### #8 Zeln

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:13 PM

34 transmutes as a master
1x result 97%
2x result 3%
3x result 0%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

I think the single 2x result I got serves to taunt me.

### #9 koaschten

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:18 PM

name / crafts / +1 procs / +2 procs
fel str / 37 / 0 / 0
major str / 50 / 8 / 1
major agi / 40 / 9 / 0

edit: by now the alt that i made my pots with dropped alchemy for tailoring to be a better farm shadow priest

### #10 moowalk

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:20 PM

34 transmutes as a master
1x result 97%
2x result 3%
3x result 0%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

I think the single 2x result I got serves to taunt me.

Edit: I should read better - point still stands though

### #11 songster

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:23 PM

The key problem is that they seem to be using the same percentages for elixirs and potions as for transmutes, presumably on the reasoning that the same percentage increase in output for all masteries is "fair".

It isn't - because the extra stuff you get from a proc is essentially pure profit.

Thus what the masteries actually do is increase your profit by a set percentage of your total turnover. Total turnover is an order of magnitude less for transmuting.

The market will correct this in the end (if it hasn't already), in that the returns from potions and elixir masteries will end up factored into the sale price. Potions will sell for less than their "true" price, in exactly sufficient proportion to negate the gains from mastery. Thus instead of being a bonus for those with the mastery, it actually ends up as a penalty for those *without* the mastery.

When a sufficient number of people (say a dozen or so per server) have a given recipe, craters cannot make a profit on that recipe any more. It's simple economics. The value added by crafting is essentially nil. I'm not sure how to fix it, and I don't think Blizzard have a clue either.

Crafting professions are a wash - and I say that as one who's made quite a lot of money jewelcrafting. Because it's the gathering (prospecting) that makes me the money, not the crafting.

### #12 koaschten

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:38 PM

To derail just a bit further, i was quite successful with my leatherworker. The Attitude of "pay my price or find one to make it cheaper for you NOW" worked quite well. And that i was the first who could craft that mail heal helmet on the server and got tons of craft requests by word of mouth.

### #13 Rane

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 12:49 PM

To derail just a bit further, i was quite successful with my leatherworker. The Attitude of "pay my price or find one to make it cheaper for you NOW" worked quite well. And that i was the first who could craft that mail heal helmet on the server and got tons of craft requests by word of mouth.

I imagine Pallies will like it next patch, so I picked it up for around 900 on my server. Might slam a profit out of it

### #14 boomix

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:00 PM

name / crafts / +1 procs / +2 procs
fel str / 37 / 0 / 0
major str / 50 / 8 / 1
major agi / 40 / 9 / 0

edit: by now the alt that i made my pots with dropped alchemy for tailoring to be a better farm shadow priest

Fel. str. is not working with Elixir mastery until next patch.
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### #15 Cowbell

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:08 PM

Xmute Mastery

22 Might Xmutes
1x - 86%
2x - 14%
3x - 0%
4x - 0%
5x - 0%

My 1 Water > Air Xmute was also a single. (Don't ask.)

Looks like generally transmute masters are the ones keeping tabs, which makes sense since it's such a gamble considering the time between xmutes. I'm hoping the 1 day turnaround time for the transmuted gems will prove to be somewhat profitable if you have a mining alt come the patch, but with all the new stuff out there, probably not.

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### #16 Cel

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:09 PM

Fel. str. is not working with Elixir mastery until next patch.

A GM told me straight up it should be working, but apparently he was misinformed... this was a few weeks ago that I filed a ticket regarding Fel Strength and Elixir Mastery. They said it was "recently fixed."

Sigh... GMs sometimes...
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### #17 Kalman

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:38 PM

Xmute Mastery

22 Might Xmutes
1x - 86%
2x - 14%
3x - 0%
4x - 0%
5x - 0%

My 1 Water > Air Xmute was also a single. (Don't ask.)

Water->Air is currently more profitable than might on my server anyway.

I don't have a total # of transmutes performed, although I'd guess it somewhere in the 20-30 range, but I've seen 3 x2 procs, 1 x4 proc, and the rest have all been single.
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### #18 Evalara

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:42 PM

The market will correct this in the end (if it hasn't already), in that the returns from potions and elixir masteries will end up factored into the sale price. Potions will sell for less than their "true" price, in exactly sufficient proportion to negate the gains from mastery. Thus instead of being a bonus for those with the mastery, it actually ends up as a penalty for those *without* the mastery.

It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.

### #19 Safid

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:47 PM

I thought I read somewhere that the proc was a simple 1/6 with each item being able to proc another proc.

However I think that they need to change how this works for transmutation specialization. As others have mentioned, transmutes have an extra constraint that limits them -- cooldown. You can roll that die over and over as long as you have mats for potions/elixirs, but transmutes limit you to at best one roll a day.

Pretty lousy. I've done a transmute every day since I started to get them and have had two procs of my specialization. No double procs or beyond. I hardly feel like this is worth it. I should have just gone into potion specialization and gotten free mana pots.

### #20 Kalman

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:49 PM

It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.

If we assume a 20% total bonus (i.e. you will get 1.2 outputs for every 1 input on average), using pricing from my server:

Water sells for 18g
Air for 30g
Fire for 24g
Mana for 20g
Earth for 6g
Might for 85g

Profit on water->air x1: 12g
Profit on might x1: -13g

Profit expression:

Base profit + %chance of proc*rawvalueofproduct

Profit (w->a): 12 + .2*30 = 18g expected
Profit (might): -13 + .2*85 = 4g expected

Might's actually less profitable to transmute for a master than air.
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