To Drink or not to Drink - When to start with consumeables
Posted 22 August 2007 - 10:24 AM
The question is: When, while working on a new boss, does/did your guild start using consumeables?
In our guild there are currently two positions (since we are currently working on Vashij Phase 2 - with the striders being our main problem - I use this as an example) :
The early-drinkers say, as soon as the basic principles of what everyone is supposed to do are clear we should use flasks to maximize our chances in any given attempt. In the current situation the 5-7% buff from DPS consumeables will allow us sooner to get to the point where we kill one strider before the next one spawns.
The late-drinkers say, we should wait with consumeables until all coordination issues are worked out. Only once we manage (or almost manage) to kill one strider before the next one spawns should we start using consumeables, to add a margin of error to a now working strategy. Using consumeables earlier will only cover flaws in our strategy.
I know this is mostly focussed on DPS consumeables. For mana potions and tank consumeables the point where you start using them is probably a lot earlier than for all others.
What do you think?
Posted 22 August 2007 - 10:27 AM
One thing I hate is to be using expensive consumeables, while others slack and don't use a damn thing. At leasts flasks are not so expensive anymore and they provide a smaller, albeit nice, boost. Don't forget your marks of illidari also!
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 10:30 AM
Really I am at the point where I spend more on repairs than flasks anyways, why not have 100% uptime?
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:02 AM
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:10 AM
I think that in the end everyone being on the same page is much much more important than the actual decision you reach though. People getting pissed off that they're spending a lot of money on learning while others "slack" is potentially a lot more detrimental than the actual loss of stats from said people not using consumables.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:11 AM
Although I dont use super mana potions until we get to a point where its safe to assume boss is going down next few attempts and I limit myself to cheap lower level pots up until then.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:17 AM
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:23 AM
The obvious benefits are straight up more dps/healing output/tanking stuff. The less obvious benefits are the focus/etc that people seem to have while using them.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 11:46 AM
Consumables are good if you're lacking dps or whatever, but they wont make a bad person play like a rockstar.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 12:01 PM
For fights like Vashj, it is of course very beneficial to do dry runs until you have the basics of the fight down and literally just need thta little extra DPs boost to win.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:13 PM
Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:35 PM
On the other hand on hard hitting bosses I tend to use a lot of stuff in order to ensure clean kills. I still chugg my ironshields on Tidewalker and even some on Karathresh. Its pretty tankspecific obviously but its almost ironic that I sometimes I can go with zero consumables whereas the rest of the raid is fully flasked since having 500 HP less won't have any impact on the fight.
To the OP definitely flask your raid in order to get more breathing space. Having your whole DPS crew flasked is a difference like night and day compared to an unflasked raid (that might not even use bufffood).
I think even for fights where you have to check various variables it is sometimes very helpfull to have your dps at least fully flasked up since you often won't be able to progress without enough raid DPS (or won't be able to distribute your DPS in such a way that all bases are covered).
Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:45 PM
Now I just need to learn not to cancel SoR when someone in my party with an aura comes close since it usually leads to me cancelling my flask by mistake.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:47 PM
I wouldnt use elixirs if I was not a herbalist though, buying them all the time would suck. On tougher bosses I try not use them until after about 15-20 seconds into the fight. Too many times I've seen things fall apart within the first 30 seconds. Though last night we were having an exceptionally rough time on Archimonde and I ran out of elixirs (only brought 5 pairs) so I flasked heh.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:04 PM
A couple elixir spec'd alchemists really bring the cost down to almost nominal... I think I just spent about 150g in mats the other day, but I came out with 4 stacks of flasks of relentless assault. That's 40 hours of raiding, and will last me a good 10 raids.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:07 PM
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:35 PM
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:36 PM
There is no reason not to, even if you can kill the boss without them. On my server they go as low as 20g and as high as 30g and if you are smart (ie you bid in the morning) you can always get them for 20g.. And 20g can be farmed in less than 10 minutes
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:50 PM
I echo the comment that repair costs have now superseded flask costs, I don't see why you wouldn't flask anymore.
Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:59 PM
In the past we would hear things like "my mana is fine, no reason for me to flask" or "I'll pot up if it's looking like a good attempt." This led to the prepared raiders thinking nobody was taking it seriously so they stopped using consumables.
Since flasking has been mandatory, there has been zero whining about people not pulling their weight. Everyone is willing to put out that extra effort when they see that the entire raid has a flask on them, whether they need it or not. Each player also puts in 100% on every attempt because it's more than just repair costs now. It was rough implementing this, but now everyone knows it is expected and that we check it.
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