Multiple language guilds
Posted 20 September 2007 - 11:26 PM
Are there raid guilds (yes, Karazhan counts, but let's cut it down to at least attempting Curator - that is, a few demonstrated raid successes in the multiple language environment) that experience success with multiple active languages in raid? (Not "in guild", and mostly referring to real time communication - Vent and the like)
It may not be much of a topic, but I was terribly curious, and I thought this the best place. My experience was incredibly limited: one social member came along, and hadn't been to any of the fights, doesn't speak English very well, and was having a little trouble with the boss (I wanna say Lurker, but it may've been something else). So then on, after giving raid briefing (or refreshers), he got a repeat in my terrible Spanish. Seems a bit cumbersome.
I'm curious, and forgive me if this is an absurd question, but are there guilds that are, for example, French and German? If they're all well spoken in English, do they do that? Are all guilds effectively (at the raid level) monolingual? Do the odd persons out get a partner who translates for them?
Moving a little far afield topic-wise, is there an "Italian" EJ? Worldofraids?
Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:10 AM
Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:22 AM
Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:28 AM
Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:34 AM
We decided to do payed transfers after almost a year of horrible PuGs. There is nothing more irritating then not understanding what someone is saying and not being able to directly communicate with them.
When people say more than a few lines in their native tongue to each other in guildchat, most of us are very offended aswell. Cant imagine something like that happening in raids.
As for your second question: I doubt it.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:02 AM
Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:35 AM
You might consider asking them how it works out.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:51 AM
We discovered this on Opera when he was tanking on the wrong side of the room for BBW. I found this out and then proceeded to communicate with him via spanish (rather broken on my end but I could get the point across). We ended up getting aran to around 25% with a group who had never seen the opera event before.
I would say it is entirely possible as long as there are people who can bridge the language gap who are leading the raid. I would think the greater problem would be finding boss strategies in the language most comfortable to the players, which may require the intermediaries in the guild to translate it for them.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:40 AM
Most of us are playing on EU-French realms. But you can find people from Belgium, Switzerland, Quebec, or french overseas territories. Same language, but different cultures, and some words that are completely different (for players from Quebec most of the time). It is not really multilinguism, even if some words or expressions are really different, and you will never see some kind of segregation, even if people are always pleased to meet guys from their country in their guild.
But it doesn't really matter (only when you try to meet IRL in fact ). Some of them try to play on the same servers due to the time difference between France and overseas territories or Quebec (it's pretty hard to raid with your guild when it's 4pm and you're at work, and there aren't many people connected when it's 5 am in France).
There are also some french players who are on UK servers because they played another MMORPG before WoW, that didn't have specific french realms. Most of the time the french community tried to use the same server, but some players with a decent English level could without any problem be in English guilds. Some of them followed their guild in WoW and are on UK servers.
Some French people simply don't want to play with other French people (yes we know how boring we can be )
For these people, it's simply a choice, and they're happy with it.
The problem comes from Quebec players: those who didn't buy european versions of the game thought they could switch to French servers, but blizzard didn't allow it. Being French I'm not in this case, but naturally we have some feedback of Quebec players on EU realms. And it seems they're not so much welcome on US servers (especially by Canadian players).
This can lead to posts like this one on official french forums:
Forums de wow-europe.com -> Les francophones d’AmÃƒÂ©rique crient Ãƒ l’aide
This is a SOS of french speaking players on US realms, who complains they are often insulted. It seems it was a bit hard when war in Iraq began and France didn't want to be implicated in it (I'm still amazed that some people aren't able to see the difference between France and Quebec). I don't know if the situation has evolved now.
Finally, for the OP, yes we have some French equivalents of World of Raids or WoWhead:
RÃ©seau JudgeHype is the most read (JudgeHype World of Warcraft)
It is a great quests/items/NPC's database, with some news about WoW, and poor quality forum compared to this one (when we are searching for some good theorycraft, we take a look here).
WoWdbu is coming back after one year offline, with raid spoilers, a database, and some other features (WoWDBU 2, la plus grosse base d'informations sur World of Warcraft : quÃªtes, objets, monstres, sets, sorts, guides raid, ... !)
And you can find some class-specific websites:
L'AssemblÃ©e des DÃ©fias - Guide du Voleur - Le site fait par et pour les Voleurs - World of Warcraft for rogues is a good exemple.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 05:48 AM
As far as French-haters go... yeah, there are some, there are nice people too. We just get used to it, and (unfortunately) the guild learned to keep a low profile regarding our French identity. I'd certainly wish there was a French North-American server, though, where people wouldn't respond "French sucks, go USA" to the occasionnal French words in General or Trade channels.
Anyway, our former (pre-BC) MT used to be the Main Tank in a predominantly English guild. The thing is, he speaks very little English, so his 3-4 french-speaking friends had to translate everything for him. Appaently, despite this pretty big hurdle, things went smoothly. That guild wasn't cutting edge, of course, but it worked.
PS: I thought this would be a nice occasion to spread the word on the WoW QuÃ©bec, Forum QuÃ©bÃ©cois de World of Warcraft : Index , a forum to help Quebeckers playing WoW to speak with each other, recruit, etc. Most participants are in US-based French raiding guilds, but it's open to all.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 05:55 AM
Of course people chat in other languages too, but not during raids.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:33 AM
There are of course single language guilds on the european servers, but multilingual guilds are very common. Most people have english as their second language and many learn better english from being in a guild where english is being used all the time.
The major languages in europe have been segregated though, english, french, german and spanish all have their own servers.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:14 AM
Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Polish and Icelandic are the notable languages we've had. Not so much Icelandic but I made an effort to at least get back at the swedes for speaking in their horrid Swenglish all the time. I understand written nordic languages but they don't get Icelandic. Sweet, sweet, petty revenge.
My server has always had several language-specific guilds up, mostly Swedish, Norwegian and Dutch but with a few eastern bloc ones thrown in for variety. All of the above have had some success but never threatening top-tier raid guilds for progress except the Swedes.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:33 AM
My worst experience was some pug with Italian people, they translated everything through babelfish and it was just horrible.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 10:40 AM
On the different languages in raid, we had a recently warrior trial that was a good tank and did perform well, but ended failing the trial because he hardly spoke and understand English, we really tried to make it work, me being raid leader and Portuguese and with him being Portuguese, I could explain the tactics and what he was supposed to be doing and while taxing it kinda worked. The problems appeared when or I was not in raid (and some Karazhan raids we did on off time, really went wrong with raid members not being able to communicat with him decently) or when there was a quick need to adpat in middle of fights, the other warriors could not communicate with him fast enough with telling me and me having to translate.
Only way for a raid to work is if eveyrone at least understand one language and raid sticks to it, we have several "swedish" guilds on the server that while are not only for swedish people they require everyone to speak and understand swedish on the raids. There is also a multitude of country specific guilds on every european server I think, I know that Frostmane has at guilds for almost all countries in Europe.
On a derail, Blizzard should really had done different Time Zone servers in Europe.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:05 AM
The majority of players on this realm are from mainland Europe and Scandinavia.
English is the accepted language on there, if there was no tacit agreement like this from all the players communication would be generally impossible.
This seems to work for the majority of Guilds there. There are some specific language Guilds, notably Russian, Dutch and Scandinavian ones.
Most guilds specify that their members use a specific language in all guild wide activities be it on their forums, /g or on Vent/TS. Fluency may not be required but the ability to understand and communicate well enough are generally the standards Guilds set for this.
In Raids clear communication is essential, without it things break down. This is one reason why VoIP is used, it is a lot more efficient than typing.
I have been in a Raiding Guild where, despite the clear requirement that applicants must be fluent in both written and spoken English. members were allowed to trial and even become members when their English skills were products of copy&pasting stuff through google. The fault lay with the people making the decisions to let them in.
The result was an enormous amount of friction, time wasting and the eventual collapse of the Guild.
Yes, multi-language Guilds can work. They do work.
But for activities like Raiding having a standard language which everyone can communicate in effectively is essential. Without that things are unlikely to work.
I have no experience of being in a Guild with someone who has hearing difficulties. While not the same by any means I could imagine it being similar to having someone who is unable to or refuses to use VoIP.
Does it add to the challenge of Raiding? Of course it does, things can take longer to explain through the keyboard.
But the fact that a common language is being used is far more important, in the end, than the method by which people communicate.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:11 AM
As a european guild on an English server, we cater to a variety of people from alot of different countries. It ranges from the United Kingdom, finland, Russia, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands and many more.
Language is hardly a problem as we all speak proper english and that is the language in wich we communicate. Be it in raids, fora or guildchat.
The other large horde guild on our server is German by nature tough.
They did open the guild up to people from other countries and handle everything in English as far as I know for some time now.
Slightly offtopic; Apart from a possible language barrier do guilds experiance cultural barriers?
Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:28 AM
I guess its all about the atmosphere you promote in the guild, we do our best to break up cliques and integrate everyone into the guild. If you have everyone feeling like they are part of a big family theres not really any problems with different cultures or languages or what have you.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:41 AM
internet seems to evaporate such things.
These are the words I was looking for. well said.
Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:41 AM
I never felt like the language was a real obstacle. On some occasions I would have liked that the Portuguese rogue could have explained directly why he was dying/underperforming/etc but all in all, it went smoothly. For some players, English was the second language so even if all the briefings and instructions were in French, we sometimes translated for them (mainly via /w).
And of course, the guild channel was left free of any language restriction.
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