As many of you know the next major content patch will include some very exciting things, such as Ulduar, a new epic raid dungeon, a wealth of new items, and much more. We thought players would especially enjoy reading just a few of the class changes we're currently planning. Please keep in mind, that this list is not at all comprehensive, and more importantly subject to change.
Changing stances now has a much reduced cost: you lose a maximum of 20 rage (10 with Tactical Mastery). For example, if you have 100 rage and change stances, you will have 80 rage remaining. If you have 10 rage and change stances, all of your rage is lost. In addition, we may change the penalties associated with some stances.
You now gain rage when damage done to you is absorbed, such as through a Power Word: Shield.
Blood Frenzy now causes 2/4% physical damage done.
Sunder Armor (and similar debuffs) now reduces armor by 4% per application, and is now a single rank. Creature armor has been globally reduced so that debuffed targets should take about the same damage from physical attacks that they did before this change. The net effect should be that this debuff is slightly less mandatory in PvE and is not disproportionately more powerful against cloth targets in PvP.
We are also adding increased damage to Arms, possibly through Overpower or Slam.
We are also looking at granting rage when the warrior blocks, dodges or parries.
Next content patch will hit us.
I'm am re-reading the changes from both perspectives (pve and pvp) even if I'm a too casual pvper to judge wisely.
I started a new thread since "in-depth" discussions are quite long and won't surely ease those who are actually interested in evaluating the weight of these changes. I hope you all understand that QQs are quite useless, but we can start discussing about the playstyle changes in both PvP and PvE situations.
I'll try to express my pov on any point from both sides. The changes aren't there yet, nor on PTR so there will be time to fix things that shouldnt work.
A) THE STANCE DANCE COST
Warriors always had to deal with the cap of 10+15 rage in case of stance changes. The mechanic was to dump rage before changing stance.
While a fury warrior can sit in berserk stance doing all he needs, other trees need to dance to reach certain skills that are locked.
When patch 3 was released, battle stance had a sense for arms warriors at least, and while getting 10% less damage was very nice, the counterbalance was really heavy.
Arms warriors stand in battle stance, are unable to intercept, interrupt and use whirwind. They anyway gain the ability to rend and use Op, and eventually Tclap. Arms/Fury would swap to Def stance to disarm, intervene or reduce incoming damage, thing that in a raid environment is very situational.
Prot warriors have really no reasons to leave defensive stance while tanking, especially since they got warbringer.
Arms also could swap to berserk stance in the last part of a bossfight to gain 3% crit and use recklessness.
The changes in 3.1 should let us change stance and use WW without losing too much rage. It was doable before 3.08 with Sudden death dumping all rage, so you could Execute then swap without a loss.
We can say warriors don't have many reason to change stance in PvE, new spreadsheets could reveal that using a ww in the "rotation" could be worth, but actually i'm not sure yet.
The only viable stance is berserk, battle and defensive are very weak and lack of proper core abilities (read snares/interrupts) so Arms and Prot warriors have to use zerk stance to PvP properly.
While the changes will surely make us able to reattack after a spellreflect, the cost of spells locked out of your actual stance is increased by 20 (10 with TM) while now it has a cost only if you are over 10/25 rage with tm.
Is it more common to be at 40+ rage or under that? I'm asking this to top arena players since I personally think I've never needed to dump rage in a pvp situation, considering shields, heavy armor and all kites we suffer.
If you stand in battle stance and have TM you will need 20 rage to pummel, 25 to reflect, 20 to intercept etc.
So this change will be a buff? I think the counterbalance of not being able to use such spells in a low rage environment is not worth it unless there is a floor of 25 rage like it is now.
Personally i would prefer to see a cap at 50 rage wrather than having to keep always more than 20 rage, since this change will affect every tree: arms -> interrupt/intercept/disarm -- fury -> spellreflect/disarm/tc -- prot -> hamstring/execute.
After a defensive ability is used, warriors then have to spend another 10/20 rage to go back to the offensive stance, increasing the amount of rage the move cost. 45 rage to reflect when you just need 15 nowadays.
THE SHIELD THAT GIVES NO RAGE
AT first glance I read this as "When you hit a shielded target you will generate rage", then i realized it is a prot "buff".
Buff only worth in 5men since i don't think the problem of rage starvation for tanks is due to shields, since they never absorb completely the incoming damage from a boss.
Arms and furies won't really see any difference. Prot will gain a few more rage when their shield will absorb damage.
Unless you are playing with a priest there is no difference. If you do, the difference is really negligible.
Don't we need the opposite? IE generate rage on damage DONE against shielded targets?
C) BACK TO TBC BLOOD FRENZY
I just see this as the way to not buff personal dps of arms warriors.
Arms contribution will be higher, personal dps and all physical dps will gain 2% more damage. Nothing to say, it's a good buff, but skews the comparison with fury tree; instead of giving you x% you'll get x% from every other physical damage done. So fury warriors will still have a better personal dps but part of their damage is due to your buff.
Little to no difference
D) THE OP SUNDER ARMOR IN PVP
This change is quite interesting. They said the damage will be the same and they'll reduce creatures armor accordingly.
At first glance I'd say this will buff ArP (if it won't be applied after debuffs) and bosses that actually have 13k armor should be lowered to about 10.8k armor to be roughly equal to what we see now.
ArP will be a better stat (hopefully), Mace spec should become a viable option for arms, but the buff itself loses much of its effectiveness. Their intention is also to make sunder effect less mandatory in a raid environment.
Prot warrior will suffer a damage decrease against all classes, mostly against cloth users. I'm not sure that other warriors would waste 5 gcds to sunder somebody, but well, I am not sure we needed a nerf in damage output tbh.
E) THE DISAPPEARED TALENT FROM BETA
I don't remember why they removed the talent that gave you rage when you parry/dodge. It was also one of the few talents that scaled with gear increases for prot warriors.
If dps warriors could use this talent then they are doing something wrong: they are standing in the wrong place.
It is a prot buff even if the rage starvation during non-trivial bossfights is really something I never saw as an issue.
A small buff since you'll gain some rage, really small if you consider that the rage return won't be very high. Not really something we could struggle for imho.
F) THE BUFFS THEY SHOULD DO
Arms warrior are doing lower damage compared to other melees, especially after patch 3.08 and especially after deep wound double-dip fix.
In the last patch anyway they were saying this and nerfed SD, while they removed TG penality and somehow increased fury dps (even if adding some more rng) with a WW glyph and more chances to proc bloodsurge.
Arms damage is low, they plan to buff OP that relies on RNG and accounts for less than 8% of total damage. Even a 50% increased damage on OP would result in best scenarios to be a 4% dps increase. Will it fill the "gap"?
Slam is the only spell in the game that scales inversely with haste. They also mentioned that haste is been looked at since it's not a great stat in general for physical dmg dealers.
Buffing slam is not a great idea unless they plan to remove the cast time, or make it scale with haste like other spells do. The entity of the buff is still unknown and I don't think I would like to be something like a BM hunter, just using slam on gcd.
Slam is also a move very hard to use in many fights where you have move often so it's not really good to hear they want to buff Arms through OP or Slam.
Some more base damage would also grant arms good scaling, thing that actually is a bit low as many noticed.
Little to no use. As for moving fights Slam is very unusual in pvp, unless you are hitting somebody who has no reason to run away. Such cases are prolly under 10% of the situations you see in arena and bgs. Op requires rend to be on target and is really random, I don't think we should rely on it at all considering the penalty of being in battle stance.
I'm not really happy with these changes, seems to me they just didnt look at warriors.
Cause if they did, well I have to reconsider their skills in game design and balancing.
Nothing is set in stone yet, I still hope they will put a floor on the stance changes, they'll do something for arms in battle stance (like fury with imp zerk) and remove penalties from being in a stance.
IF spells will still be locked I hope for a druid-like mechanic where you just use the spell and you automatically swap stance, at least this will reduce the lag issues when "dancing".
At the end of the day I'm reading these changes as "Sunder armor changed to 4% ArP", nothing more is said about how to buff arms (except few scaring hints), nothing more is said about stance penalities or our lack of mobility and survivability.
What do you guys think? Am I too pessimistic?
Cause I actually play arms even if it's an inferior spec, but I like it. But nowadays fights are trivials and nobody needs you to do fury dps to complete current content.
IF things won't change we'll just have to respec or hope that combat rogues will suck so bad that our blood frenzy will be mandatory again.
Thanks for the time spent reading and sorry for my poor english.