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# Feint threat values modifiers

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### #1 Ele

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:42 PM

I did a search on these boards for the last 30 minutes and I didn't find any topic who could answer clearly this question.

Premitting that feint rank 5 -800 threat value is modified by the rogue innate 79% threat generation (I still wonder why), if I can still use my brain to do some calculations correctly, I get a value of 632.

What happens if the rogue using feint also has Blessing of Salvation? I heard percentages should be all multiplicative, so it should be:

800*0.79*0.3 = 189.6

or something else?

If it is like that, it means that feint is totally and utterly useless with BoS and even TA totem, or am I seeing wrong?

I'm dead sorry if it has been clarified in the past, but I'm trying to educate myself on rogue skills and numbers, but this one wasn't clear anywhere I looked so far.

Thanks in advance if you can clarify how it works.

### #2 sp00n

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:46 PM

Afaik Feint is affected by BoS just like you said, multiplicative.
Though I don't know if the innate rogue modifier applies also to it. If it does, it should be
800*0.71*0.7= 397.6
BoS gives 30% less threat, not 70% as you calculated.
Also, rogues have a 29% threat modifier.

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### #3 Ele

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:49 PM

Urgh, yeah 100-29 = 71, not 79 you're right and 0.7 is correct, not 0.3.
I need to sleep more and thanks for the clarification.

### #4 Slake

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 02:57 PM

It makes more sense if you view it as feint is supposed to subtract a fixed amount of damage from your threat, rather than a fixed amount of threat. No matter what threat reduction (or enhancing) buffs you have, feint will always 'remove' 800 damage from your threat total, because it's affected by those threat buffs the same way that normal damage is.

### #5 Feorthas

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 03:55 PM

I believe that feint WAS being affected by the threat multipliers at one point but I think they fixed that (so R5 is a full -800, regardless of buffs).
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### #6 Karakas

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:01 PM

I believe KTM has rogue feint at -800 threat, before adjustments. All constants for abilities in KTM I BELIEVE are still subject to multipliers such as that based on class/stance/buffs/debuffs. That would mean a rank 5 feint with BoS would be -800(0.71)(0.7).

### #7 Glass

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:15 PM

Poor feint, wiped by one backstab or 3 seconds of auto attack. Alas 20 energy, I once new thee.

I've kind of always been curious, couldn't feint essentially be simulated by hitting "esc" for about 3 seconds saving that 20 energy and resuming your cycle?

### #8 Karakas

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:25 PM

I've kind of always been curious, couldn't feint essentially be simulated by hitting "esc" for about 3 seconds saving that 20 energy and resuming your cycle?

Losing 3 seconds of autoattack damage is not worth keeping that 20 energy, especially if you time your feints proactively on more agro-sensitive fights (for example, when Ruthlessness procs).

### #9 Glass

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:37 PM

Losing 3 seconds of autoattack damage is not worth keeping that 20 energy, especially if you time your feints proactively on more agro-sensitive fights (for example, when Ruthlessness procs).

Yeah, kinda just thinking out loud there. It's a shame feint reduces so little threat. It's a shame when your feint actually lands and you are still gaining threat because you got a lucky white crit streak, which with s&d up constantly seems to happen all the time. And that's when feint actually lands..

### #10 Kalman

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 04:44 PM

Poor feint, wiped by one backstab or 3 seconds of auto attack. Alas 20 energy, I once new thee.

I've kind of always been curious, couldn't feint essentially be simulated by hitting "esc" for about 3 seconds saving that 20 energy and resuming your cycle?

No. That's doing less damage, not doing less threat. There's a fundamental difference between the two. It's the same reason why vanishing and never attacking aren't the same thing, just at a smaller scale.
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### #11 Oggie

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:10 PM

I seem to recall it being listed as a 'current bug' that Fient was affected by TA (HAH!) and BoS.

Am I just going insane again?

It makes me want to hit Marge Thatcher on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

### #12 Cryect

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:21 PM

Poor feint, wiped by one backstab or 3 seconds of auto attack. Alas 20 energy, I once new thee.

I've kind of always been curious, couldn't feint essentially be simulated by hitting "esc" for about 3 seconds saving that 20 energy and resuming your cycle?

So.... why not consider some really rough theorycrafting for a second and think about how good feint actually is? The exact specifics on this will vary of course based on how much dmg your Backstab normally hits for etc, but lets for simplification say Feint = 1 Backstab worth of aggro.

Cooldown on Feint is 10 seconds you generate 20 Energy every 2 seconds so during a feint cooldown period you generate 100 energy. Feint costs 20 energy leaving you with 80 Energy left over so you can perform 1 1/3 Backstabs (btw don't really think people's cycle is exactly like this unless you're like that VM rogue but simplifies things for this). That means you are only generating 1/3 the Aggro of a Backstab from Special attacks every 10 seconds whereas if you weren't feinting you would be generating 1 2/3 Aggro every 10 seconds for a very extreme nice reduction in aggro.

Either way while the numbers are fairly wrong on aggro and you can calculate your own based on your own gear and averages and your cycle but I think you will find feint reduces an amazing amount of aggro if you use it on every cooldown.
I need to do something useless.

### #13 Kalman

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 05:35 PM

Either way while the numbers are fairly wrong on aggro and you can calculate your own based on your own gear and averages and your cycle but I think you will find feint reduces an amazing amount of aggro if you use it on every cooldown.

It's also an amazing waste of energy when you can vanish just before topping the tank's hate (generally around 70-75% or so) and then never have to worry about it again.

That's if your tank doesn't suck, of course.

The only exception, of course, being fights like Noth, where the ability to reduce your aggro every 10 seconds is quite valuable; I find it hilarious every time one of our TF/fury warriors dies on Noth.
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### #14 frmorrison

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 06:17 PM

I seem to recall it being listed as a 'current bug' that Fient was affected by TA (HAH!) and BoS.

I recall that Fient is still affected by BoS. That said, it does have a use on Noth and if you were playing with a poor tank.

### #15 pf

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Posted 09 November 2006 - 08:01 PM

Either way while the numbers are fairly wrong on aggro and you can calculate your own based on your own gear and averages and your cycle but I think you will find feint reduces an amazing amount of aggro if you use it on every cooldown.

It's also an amazing waste of energy when you can vanish just before topping the tank's hate (generally around 70-75% or so) and then never have to worry about it again.

That's if your tank doesn't suck, of course.

The only exception, of course, being fights like Noth, where the ability to reduce your aggro every 10 seconds is quite valuable; I find it hilarious every time one of our TF/fury warriors dies on Noth.

I always tried to grab aggro on noth. Better me evasion tanking him if the MT missed a shieldslam than noth running across the room to a random healer on the blink. If im gonna break 100 energy before the tank gets him back I'll feint then, but it is usually not necessary.

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