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# Resiliance rating in terms of item budget costs

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### #1 Teejmanglot

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 09:59 PM

I have seen a number of posts that seem to discuss the rating itself but not so much the cost in terms of item budgets

I took some items with simple stats and the RES rating and got the following using Subcreations Item Level Calculator:

Generals Dragonhide Belt
21 STR
21 AGI
30 STAM
12 INT
21 RES
33 Healing
Requires Level 70
Item Level: 110

This is an epic PVP reward

Assuming that the values for all stats but STAM are the same, and STAM is calculated at 50% of previous budget costs, and if we calculate its item level without taking the RES, it comes to am item level of about 87. This leaves 23 levels left in the budget. If we do a 1:1 translation of RES to say...SPI (so saying 21 SPI instead of 21 RES) we get an item level of 103. If we increase it to 28 (from 21) we get the desired item level of 110. In this situation it would seem the RES stat is worth 77% of a SPI stat (and likewise a STR/INT/AGI stat as they are all the same, and 154% the cost of STAM as its budget cost has been reduced).

Another item:

General's Wyrmhide Boots
30 STAM
21 INT
21 RES
29 Damage/Healing
6 Mp/5
Requires level 70
Item Level 110

This an epic PVP reward

If we once again ignore the RES stat for a moment the item is a level 83 epic. If we place the RES stat level into AGI we get a item level of 100. If we boos that number from 21 to 28 we again get the desired item level of 110. Again a value of 77%

I have tested some of the blue rewards as well and they seem to give higher values (RES costing closer to 100% of base stats) than the epic rewards. Now Blizz has told us that 25 RES is equal to a 1% reduction in crit chance, but if the RES stat is between 150 and 200% the budgetary cost of STAM (with its newly weighted value) is it worth it? Is 1% reduction in crit chance worth what could be between 375 and 500 HP?

### #2 Eylirria

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 10:03 PM

Don't forget that the resilience rating that gives you -1% chance to be crit, also reduces the damage on crits by 2%

### #3 Mist

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 10:14 PM

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

### #4 Kody

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 10:18 PM

So far that I've seen the resilience stat is more costly in terms of worth than other stats. Take the sword from the Durn the Hungerer kill quest - it's superior to the sword from Temporus in Dark Portal. Level 68 quest, doable at 66, or a level 70 instance drop.

### #5 Teejmanglot

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 10:40 PM

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

### #6 Hamlet

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 10:45 PM

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

Possibly. Remember that 500 Stam sounds much bigger to us right now than it will in a few months.

Back in the the BWL days, how quickly would you have written off the effects of +25 Defense? This is the same thing.

### #7 csulok

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:05 PM

they did say a few months ago that increasing a stat after a certain point costs more and more in the budget.. in other words budget costs are exponential ( after a point ).
shouldnt you add this to your calculations? or i remember it wrong?

### #8 Mosh

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:20 PM

they did say a few months ago that increasing a stat after a certain point costs more and more in the budget.. in other words budget costs are exponential ( after a point ).
shouldnt you add this to your calculations? or i remember it wrong?

Knowledge of the itemization formulas, uncovered by Hyzenthlei, is practically expected around here: http://www.wowwiki.c...las:Item_Values

### #9 Eylirria

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:27 PM

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

Possibly. Remember that 500 Stam sounds much bigger to us right now than it will in a few months.

Back in the the BWL days, how quickly would you have written off the effects of +25 Defense? This is the same thing.

I understand that resilience would be a less desired stat in PvE than defense for most classes, but for what it's worth, you need to also take another situation into account -- the point where the CRIT damage reduction becomes meaningless because you are immune to crits already.

### #10 Teejmanglot

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:36 PM

So assuming that all mobs still have a 5% base chance to crit, it would require 125 RES stat to mitigate all crits (like defense does for warriors). I know that STAM is scaling very high in xpac gear, but still, at 70, in a PVE situation, is the 125 RES required to mitigate all crits worth the 2500 HP it equates to?

### #11 csulok

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:48 PM

Knowledge of the itemization formulas, uncovered by Hyzenthlei, is practically expected around here: http://www.wowwiki.c...las:Item_Values

thank you, i'll read it, although i'm pretty sure there was something about exponential stuff.. the example was the old ring of the godslayer and the old band of reanimation, and how they could only add 7 agi while taking away all that sta ( 17 i believe ).

anyway.. nevermind my post

### #12 Cryect

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Posted 01 January 2007 - 11:54 PM

Resilence isn't worth it in PvE its almost as expensive as Defense is per point (well 39.4 resilence rating to 60 defense rating for reducing 1% crit) but you don't get the extra avoidance granted by Defense (1% dodge/parry/block/miss) and the other component of Resilence gets more and more worthless the closer you become to crit immune. And since PvE mob spells can't crit you can't consider that as a benefit either.

For PvP it seems a potentially useful ability but maybe too expensive but will definately help out for reducing spell damage.
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### #13 Lavode

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:17 AM

Near as I can tell it resillience primarily a way to take the edge of a firemage burning combustion/rogue coldblood and such. IE: get hurt less by pvp crits which are for all intents and purpouses unavoidable. Only.. its still too damm expensive for that. stacking some resistances / more armor / more sta on your gear seems like it would be a better choice. Of course, the arena sets are have a fairly scary amount of Ilevel invested in resilience.

### #14 Cathela

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:49 AM

Assuming that the values for all stats but STAM are the same, and STAM is calculated at 50% of previous budget costs

I believe stamina is 67% of it's previous cost, which means you get 50% more stamina for the same itemization price. The stat distributions on BC greens tend to support this theory (e.g., "of the Eagle" tends to be +1.0x Intellect and +1.5x Stamina).
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### #15 Cloak

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:54 AM

The way the itemization base cost is calculated works by adding each stat variable to the power of 3/2 and then taking the total of each and taking it to the 2/3 power. By doing this, you must treat Resilience as its own seperate stat to reflect proper values for its icost. If you were to stack it with an already existing stat point, you would artificially inflate the icost of Resilience.
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### #16 Kody

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:54 AM

The major problem I have with resilience is that while it's primarily a PvP stat, I've seen it more on PvE items so far. Basically what I'm getting at is this: they need to itemize their game better because right now it's junking up PvE stuff when it should be on PvP almost exclusively. With the focus they've given PvP in the expansion, there's zero reason that it should even be on any items outside of stuff obtained through PvP - PvP should be mutually exclusive to PvE in terms of gear progression.

### #17 aureon

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 01:18 AM

The major problem I have with resilience is that while it's primarily a PvP stat, I've seen it more on PvE items so far. Basically what I'm getting at is this: they need to itemize their game better because right now it's junking up PvE stuff when it should be on PvP almost exclusively. With the focus they've given PvP in the expansion, there's zero reason that it should even be on any items outside of stuff obtained through PvP - PvP should be mutually exclusive to PvE in terms of gear progression.

That would push a lot of people away form PvE then; by that logic Necro-knights Garb in Naxx shouldn't be there even though it is arguably the best pvp robe a clothie can get. Or for that matter elemental shaman items couldn't drop since shamans do not pew pew in raids. There should always be good pvp loot in raids. However, I agree with you on the statement that resilience should not be on tanking gear, since it simply does not do enough for tanking.

### #18 Mist

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 01:41 AM

The value of all 'ratings' are 1:1 with stats. Thats why they have the random seeming numerical values that they do. They're infact not random at all.

If this is true, and 1 RES = 1 STR or more importantly, 1 RES = 2 STAM, then we must ask (assuming all our gear was a blank slate and we could choose all the itemization) is it worth it. Is a 1% reduction in CRIT and 2% reduction in CRIT damage worth 500 HP?

You mean 1 RES = 1 STR = 1.5 stam, right?

### #19 mek

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 01:52 AM

Alright, we've had a LOT of suppositions that resilience sucks, let's do some math and see how a character with significant amounts of resilience fares on paper, assuming a fight that would naturally favour resilience - getting cut up by a dagger rogue. Dagger rogues have an extremely large % of their dmg as crits, so res should look very effective here.

You have 8500hp, 125 resilience. This dagger rogue does a 3k ambush followed by 2 2k backstabs - all crit, along with 2k normal damage, resulting in 9k dmg - you are dead.

avoidance: ambush: (0.75/0.71828) = 4.4% chance, (.044)(3000/2.2)=60
backstab: (0.60/0.56828)= 5.6% chance, (.056)(2000/2.2)=51 doubled since it happens twice, 102.
normal damage: (2000)(.3) = 600, (0.30/0.26828)=11.8% chance, (.118)(600/2) = 35.4

60+102+35 = 197 damage avoided.

mitigation: 3000+2000+2000+600 = 7600 damage from crits x 6.345% reduction = 482 damage mitigated.

However, mitigation only applies if avoidance does not. (3000)(.956)+2[(2000)(.944)]+(600)(.882)
= 2868 + 3776 + 529 = 7173 x 6.345%
= 455 damage mitigated + 197 damage avoided
= 652 total damage mitigated by Resilience.

If we could trade all our res in for stamina, hypothetically, 125 resilience becomes 192.5 stamina, a bonus of 1925 HPs. In reality, our items already have stamina on them, so we cannot fit that much stamina in. If the Druid PVP Arena set was to be reitemized, with all points in resilience going into stamina, an addition 120 stamina would be gained. 1200 hps.

1200 > 652, that's for sure.

In conclusion, stamina is mathematically superior to resilience.

[edit: entire post redone with various math updates and for clarity]

### #20 mek

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 01:56 AM

All of this is in a zero-heal environment, which should be taken into account. If players can successfully tank an assist train - bursting down is truly not possible - then resilience provides mitigation that stamina does not. 192.5 stamina will only ever mitigate 1925 damage. 125 resilience can potentially mitigate more, however in the above fight it would require you to take (9000 dmg done / 652 dmg mitigated) x (1200 dmg mitigated by sta) = 16564 damage needed to match stamina's mitigation. Given that you have 8.5k hp, if you were healed for 8064 during the fight, resilience would match stamina and any further healing would make resilience better. However, unlike stamina, resilience can be completely useless against some opponents, such as shadow priests and affliction warlocks.

As a side note, I'm not entirely sure how the crit damage reduction applies. It may be applied as a second modifier to your crit multiplier, like talents are; -10% BONUS damage from crits, in other words, causing crits to do 90% extra damage instead of 100%. This would only be a 5% damage reduction from crits, instead of the advertised 10% 125 resilience supposedly gives.

Even worse, it may be affected by other talents that alter the crit bonus; dagger rogues and well, almost all rogues crit for 220% instead of 200%, and res might just cause a 220-10=210% crit bonus, thus only reducing damage by ~4.5%. All this needs testing, but it can only make resilience look even worse.

[edit: accounting for updated math in above post]

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