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Assassination from the Mists


Last updated: June 3rd, 2013.

The most recent changes are in blue.

Information that is probably out of date is in maroon.

 

Contents

Talents and Glyphs


Talents


T15 - Shadow Focus is ideal for DPS.
T30 - No direct DPS increase.
T45 - Leeching Poison may boost DPS if it triggers procs like it did for FotF. Elusiveness for encounters where soaking is beneficial.
T60 - Shadowstep typically wins out for increased mobility.
T75 - Prey on the Weak when targets are stunnable. Irrelevant tier otherwise.
T90 - Anticipation majority of the time, in times where there is heavy Target swapping (Horridon for example) Marked for Death is a worth while option.

Glyphs


Glyph of Vendetta is the only mandatory major glyph, everything else is preferencial to the encounter or play style.



Combat and Rotation


Poisons


Lethal Poison should always be Deadly Poison.
Utility Poison should be Leeching Poison, however the use of others may be beneficial dependant on the encounter.

Single-Target


You can clip the last tick of Rupture and not lose it. The damage done will be recalculated, and added to the front of the next Rupture.

Before 35%:
With Anticipation: Cast finishers with 5 CP. If at 5CP, and with a Blindside proc, cast Dispatch anyways. Maintain 100% Rupture uptime.
Without Anticipation: Cast finishers with 4+ CP. If at 4 CP, and with Blindside proc cast Dispatch anyways. Maintain 100% Rupture uptime.

After 35%:
All Envenoms should be 5CP, while still maintaining 100% rupture uptime. Use Dispatch as the sole CP generator unless you're struggling to not cap energy.

Multi-Target


This is still up for debate, the current idea is to use Fan of Knives as your CP buildier while maintaining a number of ruptures (possibly 3 CP) on 3 targets, use Envenom to burn your CP's mid rupture maintenance.



Stat Weights and Caps


Stats


Agility increases our attack power and critical strike chance. 1 agility gives 2 attack power and 1260 agility give an additional 1% chance to crit.

Hit Rating reduces the chance that our attacks and poisons will miss the target. 340 hit rating give an additional 1% chance to hit.

Expertise Rating reduces the chance that our attacks will be dodged(and parried). 340 expertise rating reduce the dodge chance of our target by 1%.

Mastery rating increases the damage that your poisons deal. 300 mastery rating give an additional 1% damage.

Haste rating increases our attack speed and energy regeneration. 425 haste rating give an additional 1% haste.

Critical strike rating increases our chance to critically hit. 600 crit rating give an additional 1% crit chance.

Stat Weights


These are sample stats weights according to Shadowcraft, please note that these sample EP values are derived from BiS conditions with 2/2 upgrades on all pieces including the Legendary quest line cloak, please use Shadowcraft to determine more accurate relative real time values.


Stat H T15
Agi2.836
Yellow Hit2.600
Expertise1.698
Haste1.490
Mastery1.385
Crit1.217
White Hit0.836

**Note that Haste essentially becomes stronger than Mastery due to double RPPM trinkets & the RPPM legendary meta gem residing in the BiS gear set. Majority of times Mastery does trump Haste prior to aquiring such trinkets / meta.**

Caps


Hit
Yellow White
2550 (7.5%) 9010 (26.5%)

The yellow hit cap is 7.5% against bosses and requires 2550 hit rating to be reached. Hit rating is still useful afterwards for our white-hits until a hit percentage of 26.5%, but heavily loses on EP value(see above).

Expertise
Dodge
No Racial 2550 (7.5%)
Racial 2210 (6.5%)

The dodge cap is 7.5% against bosses and requires 2550(2210 with racials) expertise rating to be reached. Expertise rating is usually useless afterwards, unless you hit bosses from the front, but you should avoid doing that at all times.

Gearing


Best in Slot


This may change in the future as we better understand any changes to EP weights.

Best in Slot Gear
Slot Item
Helm [Nine-Tailed Helmet]
Neck [Quadra-Head Brooch]
Shoulders [Nine-Tailed Spaulders]
Back [Tigerfang Wrap]
Chest [Chestguard of Coruscating Blades]
Wrists [Bracers of the Midnight Comet]
Gloves [Nine-Tailed Gloves]
Belt [Strap of Murderous Strikes]
Legs [Nine-Tailed Legguards]
Boots [Twist-Toe Tabi]
Ring 1 [Gore-Soaked Gear]
Ring 2 [Sign of the Bloodied God]
Trinket 1 [Bad Juju]
Trinket 2 [Renataki's Soul Charm]
MH [Fyn's Flickering Dagger]
OH [Fyn's Flickering Dagger]


Untill Ra-Den [Lightning-Eye Hood] is looking likely to be the best offset piece to the tier.

[Spiritsever] (2/2) is BiS in your off-hand untill you aquire the above. Howeved [Fyn's Flickering Dagger] in certain gear conditions does overtake.

Set Bonuses


EP values calculated using BiS T14, use Shadowcraft to aquire you own values when looking to break a bonus.

T14 2 set = Increases the damage done by your Venomous Wounds ability by 20%. = 1389.1 EP
T14 4 set = Increases the duration of your Shadow Blades ability by 12 sec. = 1176.6 EP



EP values based on full BiS.

T15 2 set: Increases the duration of your finishing moves as if you had used an additional combo point, upto a maximum of 6 combo points. = 1221 EP
T15 4 set: Shadow Blades also reduces the cost of all your abilities by 40% = 1287 EP

Trinket EPs


All EPs are calculated with T15 BiS values from Shadowcraft, as seen above.

Name EP
[Bad Juju] (Heroic Thunderforged) 7876.8
[Renataki's Soul Charm] (Heroic Thunderforged) 7562.9
[Bad Juju] (Heroic) 7446.1
[Talisman of Bloodlust] (Heroic Thunderforged) 7184.0
[Renataki's Soul Charm] (Heroic) 7147.5
[Bad Juju] (Normal Thunderforged) 6972.2
[Talisman of Bloodlust] (Heroic) 6784.9
[Bottle of Infinite Stars] (Heroic 2/2) 6707.2
[Renataki's Soul Charm] (Normal Thunderforged) 6691.4
[Bad Juju] (Normal) 6588.2
[Talisman of Bloodlust] (Normal Thunderforged) 6347.0
[Renataki's Soul Charm] (Normal) 6321.5
[Bottle of Infinite Stars] (Heroic 0/2) 6289.1
[Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] (Reputation) 6093.1
[Talisman of Bloodlust] (Normal) 5992.5

Due to the unreliability of the modeling for all variations of the Rune of Re-Origination, it has been removed from the list of trinkets. Note that my own personal opinion is that the trinket and variations are not worth aquiring for assassination, however feel free to do your own testing.



Enchants


Slot Enchant Bonus
Shoulders Greater Tiger Claw Inscription / Secret Tiger Claw Inscription (Inscription) +200 Agility, +100 Crit / + 520 Agility, +100 Crit
Cloak Accuracy / Superior Critical Strike / Swordguard Embroidery (Tailoring) +180 Hit / +180 Crit / Chance to proc 4000 AP
Chest Glorious Stats +80 to all primary stats
Wrist Greater Agility* / Agility (Leatherworking) +180 Agility / +500 Agility
Hands Superior Mastery, Greater Haste +170 Mastery, +170 Haste
Waist Living Steel Belt Buckle Adds a prismatic gem socket.
Legs Shadowleather Leg Armor +285 Agility, +165 Crit
Feet Blurred Speed +140 Agility, +8% Movespeed
Ring 1 Greater Agility (Enchanting) +160 Agility
Ring 2 Greater Agility (Enchanting) +160 Agility
Main Hand Dancing Steel Chance to proc 1650 Agility.
Off Hand Dancing Steel Chance to proc 1650 Agility.

Gemming


There are no known sockets to ignore at present, thus you should always socket for the bonus.
Consult Shadowcraft for optimal gemming.

Socket Type Gem Bonus
Legendary Meta Capacitive Primal Diamond +324 Crit Rating & Chance on striking with a melee attack to gain Capacitance. At 5 stacks, fires a Lightning Strike, which deals [280 + 75% AP] Nature damage
Meta Agile Primal Diamond +216 Agility, +3% Critical Damage
Red Delicate Primodial Ruby +160 Agility
Yellow Adept Vermilion Onyx, Deft Vermilion Onyx, Quick Sun's Radiance +80 Agility +160 Mastery, +80 Agility +160 Haste, +320 Haste
Blue Glinting Imperial Amethyst, Lightning Wild Jade +80 Agility + 160 Hit, +160 Haste +160 Hit
Prismatic Delicate Primodial Ruby +160 Agility
Sha-Touched Crystallized Dread +500 Agility

As a jewelcrafter you should always use two Delicate Serpent's Eye in two of your red sockets.



Consumables


Flask: [Flask of Spring Blossoms] - Adds 1000 agility(1320 for alchemists) for 1 hour(2 hours for alchemists). Persists through death.
Food: [Sea Mist Rice Noodles] - Adds 300 agility(600 for Pandaren) for 1 hour. Disappears on death.
Potion: [Virmen's Bite] - Adds 4000 agility for 25 seconds. Can be used once per fight and also once before the pull(Pre-pot).



Races and Professions


Races


Alliance
Race Benefit
Dwarf Expertise with One-Handed Maces increases by 1%(no benefit for Assassination). Can activate Stoneform for defensive purposes and they also take 1% less frost damage.
Gnome Expertise with Daggers and One-Handed swords increased by 1%(734.4 EP). Can clear movement-impairing effects every 1.5 minutes with Escape Artist. They also take 1% less arcane damage.
Human Expertise with One-Handed Maces and One-Handed Swords increased by 1%(no benefit for Assassination). Can also clear CC every 2 minutes with Every Man for Himself.
Night elf Can use another ambush every 2 minutes with Shadowmeld(NYD EP). They also have an additional 2% chance to dodge and take 1% less nature damage.
Pandaren Gain 100% more stats from bufffood. This is an additional 300 agility(816 EP) for the highest food currently available. Can also use a short CC with Quaking Palm every 2 minutes.
Worgen They get a 1% additional chance to crit(594 EP), can activate their 2 minute Darkflight cooldown for a short movespeed-boost and they also take 1% less shadow and nature damage.



Horde
Race Benefit
Blood elf They can restore 15 energy and silence(2s duration)/interrupt(3s duration) all targets within 8 yards every 2 minutes with Arcane Torrent(NYD EP) and also take 1% less arcane damage.
Goblin They get an additional 1% haste and can also shoot their Rocket Barrage(NYD EP) every two minutes to deal some fire damage. This could be used while waiting for energy or during movement phases.
Orc Expertise with Axes and Fist Weapons increased by 1%(no benefit for Assassination). They can also activate Blood Fury(564 EP) to increase their attack power by 4514 for 15 seconds every two minutes.
Pandaren Gain 100% more stats from bufffood. This is an additional 300 agility(816 EP) for the highest food currently available. Can also use a short CC with Quaking Palm every 2 minutes.
Troll They receive a 10% increase to health regeneration and 10% of their health regeneration is also passively active in combat. They deal 5% more damage to beasts, suffer 15% less duration from movement-impairing effects and can also activate Berserking(482 EP), increasing their attack speed by 20% for 10 seconds on a 3 minuten cooldown.
Undead They can break Charm, Fear and Sleep effects every 2 minutes with Will of the Forsaken and also restore up to 45% of their health within 10 seconds by Cannibalizing humanoid or undead corpses. Their Touch of the Grave(NYD EP) passive has a chance to proc shadow damage dealing lifesteals and they also take 1% less shadow damage.


Professions


Profession Benefit Average stat bonus EP
Alchemy The Mixology passive grants an additional 320 Agility to Flask of Spring Blossoms. Allows for the use of [Alchemist's Flask] if no flask is present. +320 Agi 870.4
Blacksmithing You get two extra sockets via Socket Gloves and Socket Bracer which can be used for two [Delicate Primordial Ruby]. +320 Agi 870.4
Enchanting You can enchant both of your rings with Greater Agility for 160 agi per ring. +320 Agi 870.4
Engineering In addition to your gloves enchant you can also apply Synapse Springs to them for 1920 agility for 10 seconds as an on-use effect every minute. Can be delayed for use with AR/SB/KS. +320 Agi 870.4
Herbalism With the use of Lifeblood you receive a minor heal and also 2880 haste rating for 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown. +480 Haste 489.6
Inscription Allows the use of [Secret Tiger Claw Inscription] as your shoulder enchant for an additional 320 agi. +320 Agi 870.4
Jewelcrafting Allows the use of two [Delicate Serpent's Eye]. +320 Agi 870.4
Leatherworking You can enchant your bracers with Agility for 500 agi instead of 180. +320 Agi 870.4
Mining Adds 480 stamina from Toughness. +480 Sta 0.0
Skinning Adds 480 critical strike rating from Master of Anatomy. +480 Crit 475.2
Tailoring Allows to enchant your cloak with Swordguard Embroidery instead of 180 hit or crit to sometimes proc 4000 AP for 15 seconds on a 60s(?) ICD. Loss of the hit/crit enchant is not taken into account for the EP value. +1000 AP 1000.0



Macros


This is useful for switching targets if you have Stop Auto Attack checked in the Interface (it is unchecked by default). If you do not have enough Energy to start casting Mutilate, you will at least start auto-attacking.

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast Mutilate



The following macros will help using TotT without clicking around in your raid interface.


Uses TotT on your focus target.

#showtooltip
/cast [@focus] Tricks of the Trade


Uses TotT on your mouseover target.

#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover] Tricks of the Trade


Uses TotT on the player whos name you entered, e.g. "/cast [@Niknaks] Tricks of the Trade".

#showtooltip
/cast [@"player name">] Tricks of the Trade


Uses TotT on your focus target if it exists, otherwise it will target your target's target. If you have a friendly target selected, it will ignore the conditions and use TotT on that target instead.

#showtooltip
/cast [help] [target=focus, help] [target=targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade


The following macro can be used for the Wind Lord Mel'jarak encounter in Heart of Fear. It will throw the impaling spear on your focus target, which should be your designated stun target and will re-target your main dps target immediately afterwards.

/target focus
/click ExtraActionButton1
/targetlasttarget




Addons


Deadly Boss Mods - Strongly recommend using such an addon, warns you about boss abilities and provides live advice on how to handle some mechanics. A good alternative is Big Wigs.

Omen Threat Meter is the most popular addon for displaying the current threat levels on your target.

Skada is a well known addon that most people use for displaying current DPS or HPS, also very useful for checking where damage has come from along with comparing performance against others.

Trick or Treat is a very good addon for managing your tricks, including notifcations upon CD reset, notifcations to targets and alot more.




Encounter Tips


Tier 14


Spoiler


Tier 15


Throne of Thunder:

Jin'rokh the Breaker
-Feint works on all his aoe abilites
-Feint + Elusiveness works on getting hit by the balls during Lightning Strike.
-Cloak of Shadows resists all damage during storm allowing you to dps from the pool longer
Heroic
-Do not cloak when you've been afflicted by Ionization, it drops the AoE under your feet.
-You can cloak while Ionization is being cast to immune the application.

Horridon
-Mark for Death is strong for killing adds.
-Feint doesn't seem to work unless using Elusiveness on most of horridon's primarily abilities aka double swipe.
-Cloak of shadows removes Blazing Sunlight from the Farakki Wastewalker.
-Can feint if you get stuck in a sand trap. Cloak of shadows untested.
-Cloak of shadows works on all of the Gurubashi Venom Priest's abilities.
-Cloak of shadows works on deadly plague from the drakkari warrior/champion.
-Can cloak immune the initial tick off frozen orb, as well as feint if running through it.
-Can cloak immune the initial tick off lightning nova totem as well as feint if running through it.
Heroic
-Direcall Can be feinted with elusiveness, and as its physical, cloak glyph can be helpful. Final phase Dire Call REALLY hurts, so rotating feints, smoke bombs, and cloaks will really help healers.
-Dismantle has no diminishing returns on Jalak

Council of elders
- Crippling poison and stuns work on Loa Beats.
Sul
-You can solo-interrupt all Sand, using Deadly Throw when Kick is on cooldown.
-Feint works on Sandstorm to reduce damage
Heroic
- Cloak of Shadows DOES NOT clear the soul fragment.
- Damage Take From Soul Fragment Can Be Cloaked And Feinted (elusiveness only)
Frost King Malakk
- Can Feint Frostbite radius damage. Can cloak, but will not prevent loss of body heat or chilled to the bone.
- Can Evasion/Feint Reckless Charge
Kazra'jin
- Can cloak/feint Discharge.
- Cloak mitigates all damage reflection during the possessed phase for the duration cloak is active.
High Priestess Mar'li
- Can Stun Slow Twisted Fates. Paralytic Poison DOES work.
- Cheat Death DOES work on Loa Spirits.

Tortos
- You are marked as Behind the boss if you stand behind his right leg. You can then ambush etc.
- Feint works on Sandstorm to reduce damage
- Cloak of Shadows resists Stone breath damage
- Crippling on turtles is great when they first spawn to put up a slow quickly
- Bats are immune to paralytic poison
- Bats can be FoK'ed while in air if you shadowstep to vampiric cave bat
Heroic
- Feint works to reduce Quake damage assured it won't destroy the bubble.
- You can redirect combo points from the humming crystals before you have pulled the boss.


Megaera
-Feint works for all aoe abilities and rampage to reduce damage
-Cloak of shadows will resist poison bomb and remove Cinders debuff, however the cinders drop below your feet.
-Marked for death does not work on the heads, they technically don't die.
-Smoke bomb is useful during hydra rage. Especially near the end of the fight when damage is high.
Heroic



Ji-Kun
- Feint reduces damage from Quills.
-Quills can be dodged, evasion works well.
- Cloak of shadows will remove the Slimed debuff.
- Shadowstep will work on the eggs if you overshoot the landing.
-You can use sprint to stay in melee range during Down Draft.
Heroic


Durumu the Forgotten
-Feint reduces damage from the beams
-Can cloak eye sore, feint works also.
-Can cloak crimson bloom.
Heroic
- Can NOT cloak dark parasite nor the later debuff Dark Plague. Optimal To Feint from 21 seconds to 15 seconds /w glyph.


Primordius
Heroic


Dark Animus
-Can cloak matter swap, but you still suffer the effects.
-Can cloak the debuff given by explosive slam if you get hit.
-Can feint touch of animus
-Can feint interrupting jolt, hurts a lot.
Heroic


Iron Qon
Ro'shak:
-Cloak of Shadows remove Scorched.
-Cloak of shadows and feint work on all his spells for immune and damages reduction.
-Rushing wind can be avoided by shadowstepping to Quet'zal if you use engineer glider. (Possibly goblin racial as well)
Heroic
---Phase 1: Ro'shak + Quet'zal---
- Can Feint/Cloak Whirling Winds. Doesn't do alot of damage, would not waste a cloak on it.

Tips: On Heroic, melee will be taking a lot of stacks of scorched, especially if you have a lot of rogues. Ideal situation is to cloak at about 3-4 stacks, and make sure you cloak just before the next application. This way, you can not only cloak the scorched application for the 4th or 5th stack respectively, but also cloak the following one.

---Phase 2: Quet'zal + Dam'ren---
- Can cloak the damage from frost spike, but will still be thrown into the air. (Does not get put on melee, but if your by a ranged, can still get hit).

---Final Phase---
- Come near the end, i'd say last 30%, just keep feint up 100% due to Ignite Cyclone + Fistsmash.

Twin Consorts
-Can feint/cloak Cosmic Barrage. Chances are you as melee will not get hit if you have enough ranged alive and spread.
-Can cloak fan of flames debuff, not initital hit.
-Can cloak through flames of passion on the ground.
-Can feint tidal wive, but chances are if you dont have the xuen buff, your raid is gunna die.
Heroic


Lei Shen
- The thunderstrike in phase one can be cloaked.
- Static Shock can be cloaked, soaked with cheat death or feint.
-Overcharge itself can´t be cloacked but it´s ring which stuns can be cloacked or can be jumped over with shs or outranged
-Violent Gale Winds in P3 can be cloacked and feinted
Heroic
- Glyphed sprint enables you to remain stationary with Helm of Command
- Feint does NOT reduce Violent Gale Winds damage.
- You can spawn a ball lightning by being outside of melee range
- You can solo soak a lvl 1 Static Shock with Feint/Cheat Death and any external healer cooldown
- Cloak will immune the Bouncing Bolt damage


Ra-den






Thread Change Log


[Sept 24, 2012] Initial Post.
[Sept 27, 2012] Trinket EPs.
[Oct 19, 2012] More accurate heroic T14 EP weights.
[Dec 14, 2012] Thread Taken over, content added & updated.
[Jan 17, 2013] Content tips specifically for Assassination added.
[Jan 25, 2013] Troll racial EP value added.
[Mar 04, 2013] Added Tier 15 encounter tips, Tier 14 set as spolier.
[Mar 18, 2013] Large update relevant to Tier 15.
[Mar 19, 2013] Updated trinket list, re-added Tier 14 set bonus EP values.
[May 5, 2013] Updates to trinket list, BiS gear list and EP values in BiS conditions.
[May 20, 2013] Added Haste build gems to the Gemming table.
[May 28, 2013] Updated EP values and BiS list to match 5.3 patch.
[June 3, 2013] Updated EP values and BiS after Shadowcrafts engine was updated.


521 Comments

Hidden to avoid confusion.

Spoiler
(List updated 9/26, 11:45 ET, after consulting in-game tooltips)

Mmmkay, assuming I didn't screw any of this up horribly (unlikely), this is how the >i450 trinkets (plus the alchemy trinket) shake out at current EP values, given no reforges and an overly generous 100% uptime (edit: by which I mean the assumption that they proc immediately whenever the ICD hits 0, and that you'll have 100% uptime on your target for the duration of the proc). PvP trinkets not included; neither is the upcoming Brewfest trinket.

These are all based on this crappy spreadsheet I threw together last night. Easy to crappily update as EP values are adjusted.

Stat and proc values are based on in-game tooltip notes. Relic of Xuen is the exception (thus the blue text); I couldn't access an in-game tooltip for it, so I'm going off the Wowhead numbers, which may not be accurate.

ICDs are based on tooltip notes in some cases, but usually it's from this Beta Classes thread in the official forums in which Ghostcrawler provided said info.

I've included all three incarnations of the Jade Bandit Figurine that appear in the database, but since it was reportedly a rare raid trash drop in the beta, it may well only have a single (i496) version in the actual game.

(heroic): 6059.19
(normal): 5367.57
(heroic): 5028.38
(Darkmoon): 4861.48
(RF): 4754.34
(normal): 4455.83
(heroic): 4417.27
(alchemy): 4019.14
(RF): 3948.86
(rep): 3912.96
(normal): 3912.96
(dungeon): 3562.28
(dungeon): 3492.00
(dungeon): 3434.09
(RF): 3369.05

(Depending on how badly I've messed up the numbers, this may be the last post [as well as, for most of you, probably the first] you ever see from me here; it's been nice knowing you all if that's the case, and I hope you've enjoyed my brief, catastrophic, meteoric ride through the EJ atmosphere.)
EDIT: [removed for stupidity]
Just to expand upon this original post with my own experiences in raiding/hours spent on the training dummy since 5.0.4:

While T90 is up for debate, I feel that it is only up for debate with regards to fight mechanics. On a "patchwerk fight," Anticipation provides a significant resource management tool that not only takes a bit of the stress out of maximizing the use of Combo Points, but also, due to Seal Fate, will help to prevent some unavoidable resource loss due to Mutilate and/or Dispatch crits at 3 and 4 CP respectively.

Obviously, Versatility will shine on fights that have many target swaps with powerful adds and Shuriken Toss could, ostensibly, be useful on an encounter with long periods of movement towards a target.
Frankly, I suspect Anticipation is going to wind up being the consensus choice on about 90% of fights.

1) I'm not sure there's a single fight in Cata where Shuriken Toss clearly wins - Atramedes, maybe, but even that is highly debatable. The number of fights where you're stuck at range with nothing better to do than Shuriken Toss is just not that large, because that's exactly the sort of mechanic that induces guilds to sit all their melee in favor of more ranged, and the designers try to avoid that sort of thing.

2) While its true that Versatility will excel on fights with certain target-switching patterns, its not clear to me how often you actually need to redirect more than once a minute. A lot of the time, you either a) have some flexibility on exactly when you need to switch targets, and/or B) Know when you're going to need to switch so can manage CP and energy as appropriate. There are certainly a few fights where it provides an advantage - Omnotron and Madness come to mind - but its by no means the majority, nor even close. And even on fights where there is *some* advantage, its not clear to me that there's *enough* advantage, as even when you're switching targets every 30 seconds there's still nonzero DPS benefit from anticipation.

I could be wrong, and it'll be interesting to see how the final DPS estimates for Anticipation sort out; but as a starting point, I plan to run Anticipation on all fights where it isn't clearly and obviously inferior - and I don't anticipate that being more than a handful of fights.
@Rfeann

That's actually an issue we came across a month or so ago when gathering proc data. Wowhead and WowDB have an issue reading the new spell procs for trinkets since the game data is organized differently for the new trinkets.

We think we know the what, and the why, but still don't know the how. We're rather confident that it has to do with challenge mode scaling, and what you may be seeing is the value (or has something to do with the value) that will proc in challenge modes. But they're not the right value in actual raiding.

Linking the trinkets in game should give us the right value.
Ah, I see it now. I should've realized something was off; didn't make sense that all three versions of raid trinkets were yielding the same proc. I'm updating my crappy spreadsheet now in the past (see post #2 for updated numbers).
As I posted in the mists general thread, I believe it should be optimal to delay the last usage of shadow blades until sub 35%. Granted, often the last usage will fall under 35% on it's own, but in the cases where it doesn't, it appears to be a gain to wait on it.

Frankly, I suspect Anticipation is going to wind up being the consensus choice on about 90% of fights.

1) I'm not sure there's a single fight in Cata where Shuriken Toss clearly wins - Atramedes, maybe, but even that is highly debatable. The number of fights where you're stuck at range with nothing better to do than Shuriken Toss is just not that large, because that's exactly the sort of mechanic that induces guilds to sit all their melee in favor of more ranged, and the designers try to avoid that sort of thing.

2) While its true that Versatility will excel on fights with certain target-switching patterns, its not clear to me how often you actually need to redirect more than once a minute. A lot of the time, you either a) have some flexibility on exactly when you need to switch targets, and/or B) Know when you're going to need to switch so can manage CP and energy as appropriate. There are certainly a few fights where it provides an advantage - Omnotron and Madness come to mind - but its by no means the majority, nor even close. And even on fights where there is *some* advantage, its not clear to me that there's *enough* advantage, as even when you're switching targets every 30 seconds there's still nonzero DPS benefit from anticipation.

I could be wrong, and it'll be interesting to see how the final DPS estimates for Anticipation sort out; but as a starting point, I plan to run Anticipation on all fights where it isn't clearly and obviously inferior - and I don't anticipate that being more than a handful of fights.


I believe the answer is a bit straightforward.
Anticipation: PvE 90lvl talent
Versatility: PvP 90lvl talent
Shuriken Toss: no idea where to use it since as you said if a rogue is treated as range dps better to bring a range dps instead :) Unless there are 2 separate phases, (the melee phase + the range phase), where I think it is clearly a winner to use it.
Shuriken Toss is probably the pvp go-to talent on 90, unless specced into Burst of Speed, which will probably only work in later seasons with more haste.
I guess the obvious question is, does anticipation actually change our rotation as we suspected it would?
When you are at 4 CP, we normally envenom. Is it a gain to push up to 5 with another mutilate, THEN envenom?
Yes.

It doesn't really make the spec harder to play, but it's significantly harder to explain precisely when you should pool CPs.

Yes.

It doesn't really make the spec harder to play, but it's significantly harder to explain precisely when you should pool CPs.


I think the real question most of us are wondering is what change, if any, we make to finishing with 5pt envenoms if envenom is down since such a large part of Assassination at 85 was using pooling and legendary proc manipulation to keep envenom uptime as high as possible?

With energy regen being so low right now, not Envenoming at 4 doesn't mean 1 global of Envenom downtime, it could easily be 3+ seconds before you get a chance to reapply the debuff. Does this change anything or is 5pt Envenom with pooling when possible always going to be the better choice?
Even at 0% Haste, it's possible for every finisher to be 5CP. Also unless you're going to end up wasting charges of Anticipation, or let a critical aura drop off (example: SnD, Rupture), it should always be better to aim for 5CP finishers.
How much expertise for pve ? I put 8.01% and not 0% on parry on 93lvl bosses.

How much expertise for pve ? I put 8.01% and not 0% on parry on 93lvl bosses.

7.5% is the 'soft' expertise cap, as it removes dodge from the hit table for a 93. You won't remove parry, but that shouldn't matter because parry is removed by virtue of attacking from behind.

That said, the stat weights provided above by Pathal indicate that soft capping expertise isn't optimal for Assassination and should only be done if it can't be reforged into more mastery (or if you really dislike being dodged and don't care about the dps effect).
hey guys, i really appreciate the effort you put into analyzing the art of roguecraft. this is the only site i actually trust in. however, i still have some questions which could not be solved after reading through all these comments.

1) is rupture to prioritize over slice and dice? this question has come about since you're obviously supposed to apply rupture before slice and dice in the opener.
2) is it worth applying rupture (including deadly poison) on few several targets standing right next to each other in case they survive its duration? if yes, is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or 4-5cps on each?
i'm not sure if the bonus dmg + venomous wounds effect outweigh the swing timer reset + neglect of envenom buff.
3) is rupture also used while bombing 6 or more high hp mobs with FOK+CT? if yes, is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or 4-5cps on each?
4) is slice and dice used while bombing 6 or more high hp mobs with FOK+CT?
5) single target szenario: rupture has expired while slice and dice has not. you got 1-2cp and you have enough energy for another mutilate+rupture. is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or with 4-5 cp?


these are certainly difficult questions due to the amount of variables involved. i would appreciate any single hint that could help me out.
im sorry if this is a dumb question, but are we still capping spell hit or is our poison cap built into melee hit now?
IIRC, expertise + hit = spell hit.
As long as you get to 7.5% hit and expertise, you're good.

IIRC, expertise + hit = spell hit.
As long as you get to 7.5% hit and expertise, you're good.


This is true, 7,5% expertise and 7,5% melee hit will result in a total of 15% spell hit, but IIRC i read something about poisons being affected by our melee hit now, so you dont need to be expertise capped if your mastery stat weights are higher than expertise.
If you got some spare time you could easily check this at the target dummy and share your observations.

This is true, 7,5% expertise and 7,5% melee hit will result in a total of 15% spell hit, but IIRC i read something about poisons being affected by our melee hit now, so you dont need to be expertise capped if your mastery stat weights are higher than expertise.
If you got some spare time you could easily check this at the target dummy and share your observations. :)


You are correct. Poisons are off melee hit now. You don't need spell hit cap, that is why an EP value for it is not given in Pathal's first post.
Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.

Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.


I don't know if you take into account the legendary proc rate decay (ie. fact that on 93+ lvl targets proc chance is 50% of what it is on sub 89 level targets). Because it has been mentioned couple times already that Simcraft does not take it into account. So if you can estimate the dps gain from legendary procs on your sims and multiply it by 50% you'll get rough estimation what's its real worth in raiding environment.

My guess would be that 463+ dagger are better anyway due to lower standard deviation of dps results. Simply speaking, you might get only 1-2 legendary procs over the boss fight and if these procs are badly timed, your dps is screwed. While flat bonuses from MoP daggers stats give reliable dps increase even if it slightly smaller than legendary sim.

Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.


For 5 mans, its not hard for the legendaries to keep up with superior weapons, in my experience; but that's mostly due to the speed at which people are pulling and the amount of aoe present. In general, 463 weapons should generally be clear winners.

I *would* recommend keeping your legendaries around in your bags though; if we end up with another massive aoe fight similar to Maloriak, I feel they could very easily retain value for a while. On such large pulls, FoK helps to stack the proc ridiculously fast, and if you're able to push out 3-4 procs a minute with ease then well, it's almost a no-brainer. Sha of Anger is the only thing where I've really found this applicable at current, but its interesting.
Any chance to get numbers for PvP Power? The whole community is waiting for them.