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[5.4 Combat] I'm Not Dead Yet


Last Update: October 9th, 2013

The most recent changes are in blue.

Information that is probably out of date is in maroon.

 

Contents

Abbreviations


Spoiler


Talents and Glyphs


Talents


Nightstalker
Shadow Focus -- High priority.
Cheat Death
Leeching Poison
Elusiveness
Shadowstep
Burst of Speed
Prey on the Weak
Shuriken Toss
Marked for Death -- Potentially a slight lead for largest boost to single target DPS.
Anticipation -- Potentially slightly less DPS, but a huge convenience and easier to work with.

Glyphs


Situational: All glyphs are currently situational at best.

[Glyph of Cloak of Shadows] - Any fights where you take physical damage.
[Glyph of Blade Flurry] - Helps to apply utility poisons.
[Glyph of Crippling Poison] - Helps to apply crippling poison.
[Glyph of Slice and Dice] - More frequent applications of the improved utility poisons and/or enrage dispels.
[Glyph of Fan of Knives] - Any fight with adds which can proc the glyph.
[Glyph of Feint] - Any fight with AoE raid damage. Also adds 2 seconds to the duration of the elusiveness talent.
[Glyph of Sprint] - Any fight with movement.
[Glyph of Vigor] - Any fight where you have to interrupt.
[Glyph of Evasion] - Any fight where you have to tank adds or bosses.
[Glyph of Sap] - Any fight where you have to cc an add before the pull.
[Glyph of Expose Armor] - If you have to maintain your raids weakened armor debuff.

Check the encounter tips section for further advice on where to use them.

Combat and Rotation


Poisons


You can have one lethal and one non-lethal poison active at the same time.

Deadly Poison - This should always be active unless you are needed to supply the MS effect.
Wound Poison - Provides said MS effect.

Single-Target


Use ambush when stealthed(pre-pull or vanish).
Refresh SnD with whatever CP you have when less than two seconds are remaining.
Keep the RvS debuff up for every SS, eviscerate and rupture.
Prioritizing rupture over eviscerate results in a minor dps gain. Always use them with 5 CP.
If you didn't spec into anticipation and shadow blades is active, it might be better to finish with 4-5 CP instead(needs testing).
Clipping the last tick of rupture from a higher insight level will result in a negligible dps loss since the higher tick damage of insight is lost.
Energy pooling before RvS can boost DPS if you can't reach a higher insight level immediately. This is particularly important when first hitting 90, but quickly loses importance as CP generation is easier.

Multi-Target


Activate blade flurry for 2 or more targets, but don't use rupture now as blade flurry won't copy it. You may see DPS gains by casting CT instead of Eviscerate every ~12s around 5 additional targets.

When there are a lot of targets(exact number not determined) using fan of knives for CP generation, and crimson tempest as your finisher, can surpass DPS gains from bandit's guile. You could still weave in slice and dice to fetch energy restore procs via combat potency in this situation.

Anticipation


The Anticipation talent allows us to store up to 10 CP. When performing offensive finishing moves with anticipation charges, the finishing move will use up to 5 CP and the number of anticipation charges will be turned into combo points afterwards. Using Slice and Dice does not grant the CP, but you will keep the anticipation charges instead.
This mechanic can be used to delay your offensive finishers and reach higher insight levels(shallow, moderate, deep) for an increase in dps.
What you want to do is to keep using SS and RvS to reach a higher insight level whilst adding anticipation charges before you use a finisher. Keep in mind that your SS can generate up to 2 CP via the RvS debuff and up to 3 CP during shadow blades, so you want to either use your finisher or another RvS followed by your finisher when reaching four or three anticipation charges respectively to avoid losing a CP.
Addons like Bandits Guile Helper can help you track your current insight level.

Stats and Caps


Stat Weights


These are sample stats weights for T16H BiS ranges according to Shadowcraft.

Stat T14 EP T15H EP T16H EP
Agility 2.74 2.78 2.95
Yellow Hit Rating 2.50 2.46 4.56
Expertise Rating 2.43 2.18 4.26
Haste Rating 1.50 1.39 1.59
Mastery Rating 1.22 1.27 1.43 *
Crit Rating 1.02 1.12 1.43
White Hit Rating 1.00 0.70 1.02
MH Expertise 1.84 1.82 3.63
OH Expertise 0.59 0.36 0.63

* While mastery is equal to crit rating in the BiS setup, this is mostly due to the build having approximately twice as much mastery as crit. Consider mastery to be worth more than crit for general gearing purposes.

This leaves us with the general stat priority:

7.5% Hit > 7.5% Expertise > 2x Haste > Agility > Haste > Mastery > Crit

Caps


Hit
Yellow White
2550 (7.5%) 9010 (26.5%)
Hit Rating 340 hit rating give an additional 1% chance to hit.

The yellow hit cap is 7.5% against bosses and requires 2550 hit rating to be reached. Hit rating is still useful afterwards for our white-hits until a hit percentage of 26.5%, but heavily loses on EP value(see above).

Expertise
Dodge
No Racial 2550 (7.5%)
Racial 2210 (6.5%)
Expertise Rating 340 expertise rating reduce the dodge chance of our target by 1%.

The dodge cap is 7.5% against bosses and requires 2550(2210 with racials) expertise rating to be reached. Expertise rating is usually useless afterwards, unless you hit bosses from the front, but you should avoid doing that at all times. Note that you still want to reach your expertise cap for your MH if you got it for your OH already with a racial. If you got your MH expertise with a racial already, you can ignore the OH expertise afterwards.

Gearing


Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand.

OFFHAND ONLY: 1.8s daggers, and 2.6s axe/fist/sword/mace are exceptionally close in performance. However, 2.6s weapons appear to have a fraction of a % of an advantage. Try to keep a 1.8s dagger around for when you can't use Killing Spree optimally. Because of their racial passive, orc rogues should always use a 2.6s offhand if it's a fist weapon or axe and they also use a fist weapon or axe as their mainhand.

Best in Slot


This may change in the future as we better understand any changes to EP weights. All items are double upgraded when applicable.

Gemming uses a haste focused setup, using deft in red sockets and quick's in prismatic sockets.

Best in Slot Gear
Slot Item
Helm [Helmet of the Barbed Assassin]
Neck [Immerseus' Crystalline Eye]
Shoulders [Shoulderguards of the Righteous Stand]
Back [Fen-Yu, Fury of Xuen]
Chest [Tunic of the Barbed Assassin]
Wrists [Bomber's Blackened Wristwatch]
Gloves [Gloves of the Barbed Assassin]
Belt [Damron's Belt of Darkness]
Legs [Legguards of the Barbed Assassin]
Boots [Stonetoe's Tormented Treads]
Ring 1 [Kil'ruk's Band of Ascendancy]
Ring 2 [Swift Serpent Signet]
Trinket 1 [Assurance of Consequence]
Trinket 2 [Haromm's Talisman]
Mainhand [Seismic Bore]
Offhand [Seismic Bore]

Set Bonuses


[T14 2P] - Increases the damage done by your Venomous Wounds ability by 20%, increases the damage done by your Sinister Strike ability by 15%, and increases the damage done by your Backstab ability by 10%.
[T14 4P] - Increases the duration of your Shadow Blades ability by 12 sec for assassination and subtlety and by 6 sec for combat.
[T15 2P] - Increases the duration of your finishing moves as if you had used an additional combo point, up to a maximum of 6 combo points. - (~670 EP) Only affects Slice and Dice, and Rupture for Combat.
[T15 4P] - Shadow Blades also reduces the cost of all your abilities by 15%. - Not listed in the in game tooltip, this bonus reduces the GCD by .3s, and it stacks with the AR glyph for a .5s GCD.
[T16 2P] - When you generate a combo point from Revealing Strike's effect, your next combo point generating ability has its energy cost reduced by 15.
[T16 4P] - Killing Spree deals 10% more damage every time it strikes a target. The initial hit starts with 1 stack, such that the final hit deals 1.1^7 normal damage.


Reforging


Reforging allows you to remove 40% of a secondary stat present on an item and increase the value of another secondary stat not already present on that item by the same amount. Your general goal when reforging is to lose as much as possible from your worse stats and increase your good stats instead.

As a rule of thumb you should aim for haste > mastery > crit as present stats on your gear, while maintaining both your hit and expertise cap.

You can also use tools like wowreforge to optimize your reforge, in addition to services like Shadowcraft.

Gemming


Socket type Agi Build Haste Build
Meta [Agile Primal Diamond] / [Capacitive Primal Diamond]
Red [Delicate Primordial Ruby] [Deft Vermilion Onyx]
Yellow [Deft Vermilion Onyx] [Quick Sun's Radiance]
Blue [Glinting Imperial Amethyst] [Lightning Wild Jade]
Prismatic [Delicate Primordial Ruby] [Quick Sun's Radiance]
Sha-Touched [Crystallized Dread]

Consumables


Flask: [Flask of Spring Blossoms] - Adds 1000 agility(1320 for alchemists) for 1 hour(2 hours for alchemists). Persists through death.
Food: [Sea Mist Rice Noodles] - Adds 300 agility(600 for Pandaren) for 1 hour. Disappears on death.
Potion: [Virmen's Bite] - Adds 4000 agility for 25 seconds. Can be used once per fight and also once before the pull(Pre-pot).

Races and Professions


Races


Alliance
Race Benefit
Dwarf Expertise with One-Handed Maces increases by 1%. Can activate Stoneform for defensive purposes and they also take 1% less frost damage.
Gnome Expertise with Daggers and One-Handed swords increased by 1%. Can clear movement-impairing effects every 1.5 minutes with Escape Artist. They also take 1% less arcane damage.
Human Expertise with One-Handed Maces and One-Handed Swords increased by 1%. Can also clear CC every 2 minutes with Every Man for Himself.
Night elf Can use another ambush every 2 minutes with Shadowmeld. They also have an additional 2% chance to dodge and take 1% less nature damage.
Pandaren Gain 100% more stats from bufffood. This is an additional 300 agility for the highest food currently available. Can also use a short CC with Quaking Palm every 2 minutes.
Worgen They get a 1% additional chance to crit, can activate their 2 minute Darkflight cooldown for a short movespeed-boost and they also take 1% less shadow and nature damage.

Horde
Race Benefit
Blood elf They can restore 15 energy and silence(2s duration)/interrupt(3s duration) all targets within 8 yards every 2 minutes with Arcane Torrent and also take 1% less arcane damage.
Goblin They get an additional 1% haste and can also shoot their Rocket Barrage every two minutes to deal some fire damage. This could be used while waiting for energy or during movement phases.
Orc Expertise with Axes and Fist Weapons increased by 1%. They can also activate Blood Fury to increase their attack power by 4514 for 15 seconds every two minutes.
Pandaren Gain 100% more stats from bufffood. This is an additional 300 agility for the highest food currently available. Can also use a short CC with Quaking Palm every 2 minutes.
Troll They receive a 10% increase to health regeneration and 10% of their health regeneration is also passively active in combat. They deal 5% more damage to beasts, suffer 15% less duration from movement-impairing effects and can also activate Berserking, increasing their attack speed by 20% for 10 seconds on a 3 minuten cooldown.
Undead They can break Charm, Fear and Sleep effects every 2 minutes with Will of the Forsaken and also restore up to 45% of their health within 10 seconds by Cannibalizing humanoid or undead corpses. Their Touch of the Grave passive has a chance to proc shadow damage dealing lifesteals and they also take 1% less shadow damage.

Professions


Profession Benefit Average stat bonus EP
Alchemy The Mixology passive grants an additional 320 Agility to Flask of Spring Blossoms. Allows for the use of [Alchemist's Flask] if no flask is present. +320 Agi 876.8
Blacksmithing You get two extra sockets via Socket Gloves and Socket Bracer which can be used for two [Quick Sun's Radiance]. +640 Haste 960.0
Enchanting You can enchant both of your rings with Greater Agility for 160 agi per ring. +320 Agi 876.8
Engineering In addition to your gloves enchant you can also apply Synapse Springs to them for 1920 agility for 10 seconds as an on-use effect every minute. Can be delayed for use with AR/SB/KS. +320 Agi 876.8
Herbalism With the use of Lifeblood you receive a minor heal and also 2880 haste rating for 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown. +480 Haste 720.0
Inscription Allows the use of [Secret Tiger Claw Inscription] as your shoulder enchant for an additional 320 agi. +320 Agi 876.8
Jewelcrafting Allows the use of two [Delicate Serpent's Eye]. Note that unlike normal gems [Quick Serpent's Eye] is only viable if 1 haste rating is worth 0.75 agi instead of 0.5 agi. +320 Agi 876.8
Leatherworking You can enchant your bracers with Agility for 500 agi instead of 180. +320 Agi 876.8
Mining Adds 480 stamina from Toughness. +480 Sta 0.0
Skinning Adds 480 critical strike rating from Master of Anatomy. +480 Crit 489.6
Tailoring Allows to enchant your cloak with Swordguard Embroidery instead of 180 hit or crit to sometimes proc 4000 AP for 15 seconds on a 60s(?) ICD. Loss of the hit/crit enchant is not taken into account for the EP value. +1000 AP 1000.0

Macros


Spoiler


Addons


Bandits Guile Helper - Provides information about insight level and bandit's guile stacks.
SliceAdmiral - Highly configurable box for buff/debuff timers, CP, energy, sound warnings and more.

Thread Change Log


[April 2, 2013] New thread for 5.2 to contain Throne of Thunder level information.
[Sept 9, 2013] Updated for 5.4 content.
[Sept 30, 2013] Fixed BiS list.
[Oct 9, 2013] Link to 'when to CT discussion'.


166 Comments

Even with the GCD reduction to 0.5s, I am having a tremendous problem not energy capping while SB and AR are active. Other than decoupling the two abilities, does anyone have any tips or suggestions?
For many players, capping is inevitable with the 4 piece. But you can help make the most of it with a program to repeat key presses and/or enabling the ability queue. I've been using AutoHotKey ever since Heroic Rag progression was giving me carpal tunnel.

For many players, capping is inevitable with the 4 piece. But you can help make the most of it with a program to repeat key presses and/or enabling the ability queue. I've been using AutoHotKey ever since Heroic Rag progression was giving me carpal tunnel.


Isn't having a program repeat key presses a bannable offence? I assume you're using it so that you just need to hold SS down and the macro simply keeps spamming SS while you do? Which would definitely be helpful with the 4-set GCD reduction issue!
There's a difference between using a bot to play for you, and using a macro program to repeat key presses so you don't end a 3-4 hour raid with severe pain in your wrists. Programs and hardware that run key press automation are still permitted so long as you are engaging the system.
I seem to remember a blue post which suggested decoupling AR+SB with 4pc was an intended DPS increase for those that wanted it, and not doing so would likely cause a small DPS drop due to capping energy.

I also seem to have problems with CP capping. My UI delays just a little bit and with RvS + SB + AR in 4pc, sometimes I wind up with 4 anticipation points after 1 SS, and since I am spamming the button by the time I realize I need to Evis it's already too late and another SS comes out.

Any delay or lag on your client side really makes the GCD difficult to deal with during that time.

I seem to remember a blue post which suggested decoupling AR+SB with 4pc was an intended DPS increase for those that wanted it, and not doing so would likely cause a small DPS drop due to capping energy.

I also seem to have problems with CP capping. My UI delays just a little bit and with RvS + SB + AR in 4pc, sometimes I wind up with 4 anticipation points after 1 SS, and since I am spamming the button by the time I realize I need to Evis it's already too late and another SS comes out.

Any delay or lag on your client side really makes the GCD difficult to deal with during that time.


I just read this quote earlier today, but I can't remember where.

The gist of the Blue quote was close, but not exactly that. Ghostcrawler's original quote was in reference to people complaining about GCD/nrg cap during 4pc in its original state. Since then it's been changed so that glyph of AR + 4pc = .5s GCD. Blue also acknowledged Combat's reliance on CD's.

Had there been no change, I would imagine using SB/AR separately would be optimal. As it stands now, I'm really not sure--I actually came to this thread with that very question.

I WOULD like to see some changes to Killing Spree to make it a little less suicidal. Maybe a glyph that allows use of Killing Spree while moving, but it only affects your current target and you must stay in melee range?

I WOULD like to see some changes to Killing Spree to make it a little less suicidal. Maybe a glyph that allows use of Killing Spree while moving, but it only affects your current target and you must stay in melee range?


Just simply making it not swap FROM your current target would solve the problem in most cases, and it would be pretty easy to just add/change a minor glyph toward that end. Obviously we still want to retain bf related functionality (as to whether only affecting current target would be helpful). It boggles me that they overlooked the death inducing aspect of the skill, especially in light of how large every boss hitbox is these days. I mean...no one doing internal testing ever used killing spree on Horridon and warped to Africa to die horribly? C'mon.
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Kryptomaniac
Apr 16 2013 03:33 PM
Just a quick note, your rough estimate for a BIS list, unless I missed something, I am 99% sure the Necklace of the Terra-Cotta Archer is a trash drop, and you can't obtain it on heroic. I've heard rumors that it is a zone drop which would hint at the suggestion that it could come from bosses too, similar to Fyn's flickering dagger.

So if this is the case, the necklace off of Megaera would be better. If anyone knows otherwise on being able to obtain a heroic version of the Necklace of the Terra-Cotta archer, let me know.
I was informed it would be found on the BMAH. I see no problem with using a/some BMAH items for a BiS list. It's a set of gear to produce optimal DPS and to generate sample EP weights, it's not some requirement for ranking or calling yourself good.

If it's entirely unobtainable, then I would redo it.

For many players, capping is inevitable with the 4 piece. But you can help make the most of it with a program to repeat key presses and/or enabling the ability queue. I've been using AutoHotKey ever since Heroic Rag progression was giving me carpal tunnel.


I've been trying out AutoHotKey and it looks good. Just to check I'm using the right code, what is your code for your Sinister Strike and do you have any other Roguetips on AutoHotKey?
I only have it set to repeat a key every 50ms for a few specific keys. From what I remember...

First line in a code block hooks to a specific key. Second line causes it to loop within the curly brackets so long as a specific key is pressed (that's what the "p" is for). Third line emulates a hardware action, and triggers a key press. Fourth line causes the script to pause for 50ms. Then it marks the end of the loop and ends the code segment if the key is no longer being pressed down.

Further info is here (for anyone who hasn't seen it yet).

Spoiler
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Stoodinfire
Apr 22 2013 11:08 PM
Well, gotta say thanks for that Pathal, I made a AHK commandline like this:
+3::
sendplay +3
setkeydelay 60
return

And it ended up lagging me out horribly if I kept it down for more than 5 seconds, I guess it's from the Que system from Blizz being flooded or something, but I literally could not control my character for ~4-5 seconds

My scripting experience is somewhat limited and I messed around with a ton of different commandlines, some with rather interesting results (like running hitting 1 translating into mouseclicking 1 and watching my pointer fly down to 1 and my camera go to hell mid-fight lol)

But even so, do you know if the Assassination thread has been completely put on hold? Haven't seen much new info there for a while :(
Hi first time poster here, in my opinion regarding staggering or stacking combat cooldowns, even if you have a solid connection that can input .5 gcd at the same rate bliz servers interact with it, you still need to trigger finishers which in effect can make you energy cap anyways due to relentless strikes, what I'm curious about though is on shadowcraft when you uncheck the stack cooldowns option in settings haste devalues more than if you stack them, shouldn't the opposite be true and it should gain value instead when staggering cooldowns?

Also if you go down the route of staggering which should you use first? I'v been trying killing spree, adrenaline rush, shadowblades for quicker ramp up time to blow through deep insight with shadowblades, but im unsure if this would always be true given the different fight mechanics or it will be a fight by fight basis. Also how would you think hero on the pull would interact with this rotation and when would be the best time to blow your other pot?
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Stoodinfire
Apr 25 2013 01:31 PM
Unfortunatly, I can't help you too much with the t15-4p(I take it that is what you're basing this around) since I haven't gotten more than 2-piece yet which I broke off again.

But as a general rule I go by (this is personal preference I reckon), I always open with Ambush for the CP's,
RS, SS>5CP, Killing Spree>S&D>SB/AR/other cooldowns, trinkets and similar
This makes you able to get S&D up as soon as KS ends while still not wasting those seconds during KS when it is useless anyways, and also makes sure KS is on CD so it can get affected by Restless Blades during SB/AR.
Usually by the time my SB/AR ends I've managed to get enough finishers to almost have KS off CD again which is nice.

As when it comes to staggering I reckon you should not need with 4p, but if you're like me and don't have it I have to delay using SB or AR (depending on Insight level, high means I pop SB first, low means I pop AR first to get it up before SB.

Before I got to the hastelevel I'm at right now, popping everything at once, even with Lust meant I barely got energycapped, but now I hit energycap in like 1.5sec if I do it during lust.

But this is for the most part my own personal experience with my current gearlevels though, and this will likely change as I get 4p and another RPPM trinket (have to say, those RPPM are dodgy as hell)

The more high-end raiders than me might have other opinions, and so might the theorycrafters we have here.

This makes you able to get S&D up as soon as KS ends while still not wasting those seconds during KS when it is useless anyways


I don't think this is correct. I'm pretty sure auto-attacks continue to happen during KS, so you need to have S&D up before you use it. Ideally, you want to get S&D up immediately after your Ambush opener.
Yes you want SnD up before killing spree as auto attacks still trigger during it, also killing spree is a good energy regen tool in its own right so you want to completely deplete your energy before popping it on pull.
Both of the above posters are correct; getting snd up as soon as possible is paramount. Opener+RvS just so you don't cap in the meantime is about the extent of what should happen before snd goes up. Beyond that though, With anticipation you can push to moderate and sometimes even deep insight before you use ks, and should absolutely be doing so. In addition to more damage on your KS, having those stored points then subsequently subtracts an additional 20 seconds from your ar/sb cd at the cost of "at most one finisher gcd that might leave you capped" (my arbitrary approximation).

Thus: Amb>RvS>SnD>SS to 5+5>KS>pop cds>rupt>dps as normal. Obviously this bears +/- augmentation based on pot duration and trinket procs.
Despite combat modelling well, it seems according to sources such a raidbots, it's either pulling much lower dps than assas due to difference between theoretical and practical, or its being underplayed by the top tier raiders. Which of these is the case, and why?
I'm not sure about other servers, but on Illidan and our instance servers, input lag (where you press an ability and it takes over a second for it to go off) makes combat unplayable for the most part. During the initial AR/SB, I miss around 6-9 globals worth of damage, because even though I have a .5sec GCD, it takes 1-1.5sec for an ability to even go off. It's incredibly annoying, and it happens as Assassination as well, but it's not nearly as penalizing to Assassination.

Despite combat modelling well, it seems according to sources such a raidbots, it's either pulling much lower dps than assas due to difference between theoretical and practical, or its being underplayed by the top tier raiders. Which of these is the case, and why?


If this page on Noxxic is anything to go by, looking at the different ilvl rankings, Combat is seriously gear-dependent. If you haven't got BiS, you're languishing down the lower realms of the rankings no matter what.

I'm not sure about other servers, but on Illidan and our instance servers, input lag (where you press an ability and it takes over a second for it to go off) makes combat unplayable for the most part. During the initial AR/SB, I miss around 6-9 globals worth of damage, because even though I have a .5sec GCD, it takes 1-1.5sec for an ability to even go off. It's incredibly annoying, and it happens as Assassination as well, but it's not nearly as penalizing to Assassination.

Normally I don't have any issues at all, but I get this lag specifically during raidwide effects like Megaera's Rampage even though my personal FPS is doing just fine (high-end pc). I'll hit Mutilate and it'll be a good second or so before the combo points or a Blindside proc actually show up on me. Makes the 4pc SB time mostly a crapshoot of whether I'm going to waste some CPs or not if it's during one of these lag periods in the fight. I can imagine it's awful for Combat there.

Despite combat modelling well, it seems according to sources such a raidbots, it's either pulling much lower dps than assas due to difference between theoretical and practical, or its being underplayed by the top tier raiders. Which of these is the case, and why?


I played combat all through the last tier and always thought it was competitive but underplayed, yet near the end I switched to muti and even with significantly worse weapons (upgraded heroics to non-upgrade normal) I felt like it was an overall dps increase.

I can't really speak to why sims are returning such different values than actual play (obviously there is going to be some loss, but I agree that the disparity is both overly large and odd), but I do think there is something to be said of how timing works for the different specs, particularly with respect to trinkets and current trinket functionality. The timing for combat cooldowns is pretty tight, and doesn't really allow for much waiting to line trinkets up and so forth, as doing so would often result in losing a cooldown overall and thus be a decrease in that fashion.
Assassination provides a little more leeway both in the long duration of Vendetta and in the cooldown timers themselves; we know going into a fight precisely how many vendettas and blades we'll be able to use, and can plan accordingly to line up trinket procs/heroism/whatever with cooldowns. I think that the...I'll play nice and say "unpredictability" of the trinkets in this tier further exacerbate this sort of issue.

In a different thread Ahdehl was talking about the pitfalls of a haste heavy build he tried and that while sometimes things procced often and lined up perfectly, other times it was just a complete wash. I think that's rather analogous to this conversation as well, as applied to the differing specs and the amount of rng that goes into their success. Its hard to argue with consistency.
I've had good experiences with Combat, and can hit the benchmarks provided by Shadowcraft, often exceeding them. I have the benefit of being very close to the server I play on however, with my MS being around 10-15 all of the time. Server being relatively low/med pop probably helps too.

I've had good experiences with Combat, and can hit the benchmarks provided by Shadowcraft, often exceeding them. I have the benefit of being very close to the server I play on however, with my MS being around 10-15 all of the time. Server being relatively low/med pop probably helps too.


Well, in my case shadowcraft says the dps difference between combat and multi is about 6k. Actually I have a better combat mainhand, that's why I'm playing combat at the moment. But if the actual play of assassination /w low ilvl weapons provides a high dps, why is shadowcraft showing us other dps numbers? It's a little bit irritating.
I also have good experiences with combat now. When I acquired the T15 4p bonus as Assass, I was curious how I would perform as combat. I played in T14 mainly combat but switched to Assassination for T15 content because of the plethora of buffs they gave to assa, therefore I had lots of experience with combat (normal content though)

I don't have gear specifically for combat except for 2x (normal version though, don't know how to link normal version)

When I changed the weapons and spec in shadowcraft and hit regem and reforge, it suggested a steep increase in dps of 19053 (+11.85%).
That made me want to try out combat again. So I spent my time in several LFRs trying out combat. I accidentally forgot to reforge, I was at only 5% hit and too much mastery and too little haste. However, I was performing compatible to my assassination dps.
Also I came to the conclusion that 0.5s GCD is too much for me and got myself an Autohotkey script as suggested here previously after I had some pain in the wrist.
The burst of AR+SB is amazing, but hard to handle (not wasting a single GCD, not wasting a potential CP)

After fixing my reforges I used combat this week and performed better than I did as Assassination.
Link to the log: Dashboard - 01-05 19:28 - Moo Fighters - World of Logs

Comparing T15 combat to T14 combat is almost night and day. You waste a lot of energy inevitably and are almost not energy starved at all. You are not energy starved until you hit the point where KS and AR are both on long cd (60s+) which is I believe after the 2nd AR+SB

The range increase to BF is really making things easier.
Playing combat again was such a blast, and I don't see myself switching back to assa any time soon.