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  1. You really can't compare numbers yet since they are either place holders or numbers without any AP scaling in effect (or both). What is more useful is to discuss how they deliver the damage and instead of how much, I*d say.
  2. The way I read it, it seems that jumping actually removes the original plague. So enemy A would not have NP up anymore and if you want NP to be up on more than one enemy, you'd have to apply it manually (it looks like it could have some cool interaction with Unholy Blight on AoE). Hopefully Crimson Scourge will also refresh it so that you only need to apply it once per mob for the duration of the encounter (and presumably NP will have a damage stack cap so it cannot grow indefinitely). So essentially we'd have - Necrotic Plague for sustained multi target (i.e. Dark Protectors) - Sindragosa's Breath for burst AoE (anything with adds that are short lived) - Defile as an option inbetween In my opinion, Defile looks like the weakest talent of them all and I can't think of a situation where I would want to use this over Death and Decay. The first issue I have with it is the fact it's limited duration of 10 seconds is conflicting with the increasing damage/growing part: Just when you got that big Defile going it already disappears (NP also has a ramping mechanic but it is neither dependent on adds being around nor does it have to ramp up again as long as you make sure it stays on - atleast going by it's current wording). The second issues is that the growing portion seems really kind of... pointless? If you think about it, how does your raid deal with adds you need to kill? Either they are tanked on top of the boss for cleave damage in which case DnD's normal range will cover it or they are tanked away from the boss (say, because they buff/heal him and/or each other if they are too close) but either way they will still be tanked in a spot no bigger than what DnD should be able to cover. I have a few ideas to make it more compelling though: For starters, remove the resource cost on it and maybe extend the duration to 15-20 secs. Additionally, what if Defile could also infect every target it hits with Frost Fever and Blood Plague? Would make it pretty handy for snap aggro. And to make use of Defile's stacking damage, what if Defile would leave a debuff on every affected target that increases damage taken by Howling Blast/Blood Boil for the next x seconds after it ran it's course (how much of a damage increase it would get would be determined on growth size)? Necrotic Plague as mentioned above is something I could see us picking up for anything with long lived adds/bosses so it definitely has it's niche. Sindragosa's Breath on the other hand is actually something I wanted for a while: A way to directly convert Runic Power into AoE damage. Especially with the current Scent of Blood and AMS soaking, there are times when you just have so much RP that you can't dump it fast enough. Plus, even using it for 1-2 secs at a time should be great for burst threat just when you run into a new pack and I could also see this talent be useful for single target fights depending on how our RP generation will look in WoD and how it compares to NP number wise. It would also be really cool if SB would snare targets it hits as well (with or without Chilblains talented, either would work for me). (And hey, maybe we can petition Sindragosa's Breath and Remorseless Winter to swap names so the tier actually has a full Lich King theme. :V) So much for the positive stuff, now the negatives: Sindragosa's Breath highlights the one big problem with our Tier 75 talents: Runic Power expenditure is not equal. Only two RP consuming abilities have a chance to proc Blood Tap (and co) which makes it really awkward and unfun for Blood to use abilities that are not Rune Strike or Death Coil because you are losing out on additional Death Strikes. So hopefully come WoD we will get a pass on how RP consuming abilities work with our T75 so that everything that consumes 30/40 RP actually gives us a Blood Tap charge (look no further than Brewmaster Monks to see that it is possible to ensure that damage dealing, energy using talents do not have to screw over your mitigation, for example old Rushing Jade Wind). This is less of an issue for DPS DKs because they will just math out at how many mobs SB will do more damage than Death Coil/Frost plus the Rune abilities you could have used with more Blood Tap charges though all specs have to deal with the double whammy that is Conversion until this is fixed. And this brings me to my other issue I have with tier 100: They are all (AoE) DPS talents. Admittedly the theme is cool and the issue is probably less with the talents but with the fact that every other tank gains a new tanking cooldown or passive except for Warriors (which gain a pretty cool way to convert survival into damage though). Do I begrudge them getting CDs? No, CDs are cool and fun and herein lies the issue: DKs are supposedly the CD tanks which I enjoyed about them. In return our baseline mitigation is the worst of all tanks which is only fair. After all, you should have your strengths (CDs) and weaknesses (baseline mitigation). But for a while now other tanks are getting more and more CDs whereas DKs pretty much kept what they had Cataclysm so what made DKs unique is becoming less and less so. Note that is not about tank effectiveness or balance because you could just ramp up baseline mitigation if DKs fell behind and such; no, my beef is with how the spec plays and feels compared to the others. But who knows, we haven't seen the new baseline abilities yet so maybe there is something in store for us but I can only comment on what has been released so far after all. And finally, I was hoping to drop some keybinds and superfluous abilities come WoD but looking at the updated talents it still looks like Blood will have two diseases where one would completely suffice, Pestilence where baseline Roiling Blood would work just as well and so on. AMZ is also still there as talent so that sucks as well. Maybe there still more changes incoming though, we'll just have wait and see. This post has been promoted to an article
  3. Full haste gearing is not a good idea if you aim to do max DPS. With Scent of Blood, AMS soaking and a pretty low RP cost on Rune Strike the amount of haste we need to be GCD capped is pretty small (there are moments I wish Death Coil was better damage than Rune Strike at all AP levels just so I could bleed off the excess RP). With that in mind, crit gemming is better for DPS, especially for AoE where your diseases are allowed to tick for a while since haste does nothing there. (Personally, I also consider parry and dodge to be superior to haste because I just have too much of it and can't get rid of it.) As for why people gem haste, my suspicion is that they are doing it for combination of survival/DPS. It's neither the best for either survival or DPS but it is a good middle ground I suppose. Same applies to PL: Generally no GCDs free so I don't see the need to spec it but if I had to use it, I would probably glyph Outbreak due to how easy it is get to the point where RP is really nothing you need to worry about it.
  4. This isn't exactly new (I believe we had a discussion about DC vs RS DPET some time ago) and it was a good idea to weave in DCs for damage before Rune Strike got buffed. But anyway, I just wanted to post the formula for people to see at which AP levels DC does the same damage as Rune Strike on average: ((0.514*x + 1133) * 1.05 * 1.10) = (((((x/14) * 3.3 + 29475) * 2) * 0.68 * 1.04 * 1.15) Gives us a breakpoint at 220k AP. Replace 29475 with whatever your average damage from your weapon is if you don't have a 561 wep. Here it is as link: ((0.514*x + 1133) * 1.05 * 1.10) = (((((x/14) * 3.3 + 29475) * 2) * 0.68 * 1.04 * 1.15) - Wolfram|Alpha Obviously, the better your weapon, the higher the break point will be. If you have DRW up and are swimming in RP, the value drops again (I don't have an exact formula for that, I just eyeball it) since DRW bugged out some time ago and is not copying our weapon damage but still copies spells 1:1.
  5. The taunting is definitely a good practice for DPS, especially since you want to do this anyway for Vengeance since you get half of the Vengeance the current tank has when you do this. The SoB interaction with avoidance has certainly been a pleasent surprise though it is the most obvious when you tank multiple mobs (though I can't help but feel the waste when you easily overcap on RP doing that :V). I think that if I was wearing tank gear more often, I would go for an hit cap/exp soft cap > mastery (150%) > avoidance > mastery > exp hard cap build myself since it combines both DPS and survival without making many trade offs like a full mastery or full DPS gear build would. I would still consider avoidance to be a bit worse for controlled survival until you hit a given mastery value but the increased DPS gains are not something you would want to miss. Plus avoidance has some delicious interaction with the non-DR avoidance from DRW and SS.
  6. Simply speaking, yes of course you don't have time to Death Strikes if you are going for DPS and are fine for survival. There is usually some levels of trade off you can do. I would sort them like this from least opportunity cost to highest opportunity cost: 1) Not timing Death Strike so you never waste resources or damage. This is mainly important for burst damage windows where you have DRW up or an increase damage taken debuff on the target (i.e. if you only have x seconds to kill a mob before it dies/spawns something you don't want, make sure you do not end up with your highest damage per execute abilities off CD because you used Heart Strike instead or something). Since this is just a temporary mode, the trade off is pretty negligable. If you need to time DS again for later, more damaging phases, you can. 2) Trade survival CDs for more Vengeance. While it is true that most avoidable stuff like void zones don't grant Vengeance anymore, there are still things that give Vengeance ad that you are technically not supposed to take. For example, that includes taking more debuffs on something like Malkorok and compensating with cooldowns or - even better - letting the cast go through on the tank trial at Norushen for the double whammy of extra RP, Vengeance and a ~750k Dark Sim'd bolt to throw right back at if you save AMS for it. Similar to 1), this is one of the least dangerous ways to improve DPS since you can stop "wasting" survival CDs at any time. 3) Spec Death Siphon and use it. DSi is one of our best damage per rune abilities at higher AP levels and you can adjust to when you use it and when not like above points. But since you give up Death Pact for it, I ranked it at a slightly higher risk. 4) Gear for more DPS. This is one of the more permanent trade offs you can make since you obviously cannot change gear in combat (besides the weapon anyway). As with many things, you can adjust this pretty gradually starting with trinkets, different weapon runeforges until you end up at the other side of it and use full DPS gear forged out of mastery etc. I'd probably rank them like this: a) Use DPS trinkets and/or a different runeforge. If you can snag something like Thok's trinket, it makes for a really great way to turn a low amount of lost survival into a relatively big gain. b) Use more and more DPS gear. Depending on stat allocation (does it have mastery?) and ilvl (is it roughly equal in ilvl to your tank gear?) this can be a big or a low loss. c) Forge out of anything that does not improve DPS. This includes mastery since it's DPS benefit is 0 but it is also rather risky for obvious reasons. This also includes gearing heavily for crit rating (not to be confused with what you get with Riposte!) at the expense of haste and - as mentioned before - mastery since crit does very little for us in terms of survival (Lichborne heals, Death Siphon and FC crit procs). Personally, I do this and I am also trying to get rid off of excess haste by reforging that into avoidance for more yummy crit. :V d) Use the DPS meta. With the pretty hefty proc rate nerf and the buff to the tank meta it got quite a huge opportunity cost inrease. Generally, this is where I start if I need to drop some DPS for survival along with: e) Use the DPS cloak. The tank cloak proc is pretty awesome, no way around it. So if you want to eke out even more DPS, you will have to give up on it and use the DPS cloak instead. (You can probably swap d) and e) depending on stuff, I don't think the distinction is important anyway) There are also a few other things that you can do that are not entirely DK specific. If an encounter has only a limited amount of time where tank survival is tested (let's say a boss that on it's own is not very threatening but has adds in just one early phase) you could save CDs and add some external CDs just to get you past that so you can still add your maximum DPS for the remainder of the encounter. But this really depends on your raid strategy and group more than anything so feel free to try things out there.
  7. AMZ would also be an option here, yeah. It's essentially your choice between making one guaranteed breath smoother versus having the safety net of Purgatory in case something goes wrong on either breath. Alternatively, you could let Purgatory proc deliberately on either breath and respond with a Death Pact if you are a CD short.
  8. Just for fun, using your values: Breath 2: 2000k - 500k (AMS, assuming 1000k health with Vampiric Blood and Symbiosis) - 1000k (cloak absorb) = 500k Breath 3: 3500k * 0.5 (IBF) * 0.8 (Bone Shield) * 0.4 (Army with DRW for 40% Parry/Dodge) = 840k There are a few ways to make things even smoother since just having a single HoSac (now glyphable to not do damage to the Paladin himself) or the AoE damage reduction trinket or carrying Bone Shield charges from Breath 2 to Breath 3 will make things immensly easier. You also still have Purgatory/Death Pact available for either of the breaths. So theoretically, this should work just fine though until you can get said trinket or reliable HoSacs, your limiting factor is the 10 min cooldown on Army.
  9. The diseases are staying up for me on both dummies and normal mobs. Are you sure that the DRW didn't diseases a different dummy that you were not attacking instead? It tends to be somewhat stupid sometimes.
  10. Updated for 5.4 except for the Tier 16 encounter specific tips. Since I did not raid on PTR, I am relying on you guys to help me fill out that section. Otherwise I'll just fill it out myself when I get to see the new stuff but this is obviously going to be slower since I am just one guy. :V
  11. Frost DPS 5.4 - Howling Blargh

    That happens if you link to PTR items since the forum plugin does not see the difference between ptr.wowhead and normal wowhead IDs so it tries to look up item IDs that do not exist yet on live Wowhead. Give it two days and the links should fix themselves.
  12. No, Razor Ice is only benefitting the DK that applied it and has been doing that for a quite a long time (though in early WotLK it didn't and it made Frost Mages really happy).
  13. They also nerfed the DPS meta and cloak for tanks. I think they do not want us tanks to be trade survival for damage, or rather, they may not want it to be as much of a DPS gain at a steep survival cost. Basically, Heart Strike over Death Strike is such a tiny gain at a huge mitigation loss that I just don't see it being worth doing. The cloak and meta gem might be going that way as well but we'll have to see how much of loss that is. (We should also get some sort of DPS-to-survival-loss metric to make things easier or so. :v:) That said, what concerns me the most is that I was expecting the opposite to happen: buff tank DPS at the cost at the expense of survival (by buffing Heart Strike, Breath of Fire etc). Why? Because they are fixing Vengeance gaming where you essentially take more damage to do more damage by standing in the fire. And while swapping in Necrotics over Death Strikes is never in the same magnitude of doing things like that, I was hoping they might acknowledge that it is a fun thing to be able to do as a tank. I am also not happy about the threat buff we got because Vengeance from AoE tanking took a huge hit. It may indicate that they do not want to buff low-AP damage for tanks to fix that problem and instead opted to just do it with a threat buff. But who knows, it is extremely unlikely that they are done tuning numbers on tanks yet since I don't think anyone but BrM got a damage adjustment so far (the Deep Wounds buff for Warriors looks more like an Arms/Fury buff that Prot just happened to benefit). Maybe we will see Heart Strike being better on 3 targets than Blood Boil at any (reasonable) AP level, wouldn't that be just crazy? :P
  14. You are only thinking of one specific situation where Purg proccing before the cloak might be beneficial: That is when we know/expect to "die" since we are taking damage we were not meant to take. However, there is a more common scenario where you proc Purgatory without planning to and these are usually anywhere between 10k-200k overkill and followed up (or caused) by normal melee swings. For example, you are at 250k health with Blood Shield down (pretend you just absorbed a really big telegraphed hit with preshielding but it still broke through the BS and took out some of your health) and you get auto attacked for 300k so Purg absorbs the hit and puts you at -50k. The heals that were already on their way will probably remove Shroud of Purgatory instantly but they may not be sufficient to heal you up enough to survive the next hit. So for our example let's say you got 200k healing just before the next swing which would put you on 150k health. The next 300k swing would trigger the cloak and leave you at 150k health so you can get healed up. Yet, this cost you two procs to do so. If the cloak went first, it would look like this: 250k health, cloak absorbs the 300k swing fully and leaves you at 250k. You get 200k healing before the next hit and you will survive the next 300k swing with 150k health remaining. And unlike the other example, Purgatory is still available. I am also expecting the cloak to get an absorb cap based on our max health if it doesn't have one already and I really do hope that the cloak proc goes before Purgatory. EDIT: As an addendum to my previous post about tank trinkets: The amplification trinket has been nerfed so it will pretty much never give you more Mastery than a dedicated Mastery trinket so we now have 2 clear cut winners for survival. However, I still do expect that trinket to see some (a lot if you count 10 mans) use because it is still the best DPS trinket in terms of offering some mitigation in addition to damage.
  15. Let's get some PTR discussion going on now that things seem a bit more stable, shall we? Tier 16 set bonuses The short version: The bonuses are great and the itemization the individual pieces is also good. Get 4 set as soon as possible or I'll slap you with a fish. The long version: With this fish. In the face. The longer version: 2P will give you ~3 more Bone Shield charges per minute which is an increase of ~50%. But the beauty of the bonus is being able to store the charges for longer than a minute and having the option to forgo uptime/maximum amount of charges for deploying them during high damage phases. Getting 100% uptime is not possible, not even in a high haste gear set and the CD reduction trinket while spamming Heart Strike over Death Strike which is a good thing for balance. You may even want to use Heart Strike more often in very low damage phases to build up the Bone Wall charges more quickly which is a nice option to have. 4P is a slightly weaker Empower Rune Weapon on a much shorter CD. It gives you 4 Death Runes to play around with and the flexibility that offers is really amazing. You can get up to 2 Death Strikes, more Blood Boils for AoE pickup or other offensive utility and most amazingly you can channel Army of the Dead with the DRW buff up for an additional 20% damage reduction. And all this without expending resources since DRW got it's RP cost removed as well. Trinkets For the first trinket slot we have Vial of Living Corruption. On PTR it actually increases the cooldown recovery rate by 20% and the passive stat is pretty good. So what does +20% cooldown recovery rate mean? It means you can divide your CDs by 1.2. Essentially, for every 1 min of CD the trinket reduces it by 10 secs. The affected spells are: - Icebound Fortitude at 150 secs CD (-30 secs), 115 secs CD glyphed (-15 secs). - Outbreak at 50 secs CD (-10 secs) - Dancing Rune Weapon at 75 secs CD (-15 secs) - Bone Shield at 50 secs CD (-10 secs) - Anti-Magic Shell at 37.5 secs CD (-7.5 secs) - Vampiric Blood at 50 secs CD (-10 secs), 33 secs with T14 2P (though this has no practical application besides showing us that the flat reduction of -20 secs is applied before the trinket) The synergy between this trinket and with our T16 set bonus should be obvious. The trinket of choice for the second slot is a bit tricker to determine and I expect both of these to be very valuable and worth pursuing. First, we have Rook's Unlucky Talisman which offers some more passive EH while providing an amazing damage reduction on use for many, many boss abilities. Keep in mind that AoE abilities should include bursty tank killer abilities such Primordial Strike, Explosive Slam and so on even if they are technically supposed to only hit tanks. The alternate choice is Thok's Tail Tip which is technically a DPS trinket. Even so, this trinket gives you the most Mastery passively of any of the 5.4 trinket once you break the +14k Mastery threshold which shouldn't be too hard at that item level. Once you reach that breakpoint, it becomes better than 5.4 Raid - Normal - Siege of Orgrimmar - Boss X Loot X - Tank Trinket (5) on nearly every level except maybe the name length. While you cannot direct the +Str proc of Thok's, it does offer you more avoidance and more often than the latter trinket (yeah, no way I am actually typing that name more than once, copy and paste be damned <_<). But let's not forget about the other aspect the trinket offers: More DPS - which is always useful. And unlike with other DPS trinkets, you barely lose any survival by equipping this because of the avoidance proc and static Mastery. So which one should you pick? In my opinion, for very hard hitting bosses you will generally want to take Rook's but for the bosses that require less EH/anti-burst DR Thok's will be just a good while offering more DPS. I am betting that 10 man DKs will mostly run Thok's over Rook's whereas 25 man DK may prefer Rook's. Either way, I strongly suggest you get them both since they both have their uses. A6nd since Thok's is technically a DPS trinket, you get to use it for your offspec as well so it's win/win. And finally, let's take a look at this trinket: Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal. While the idea is nice, this is a pretty niche trinket for survival purposes. Even if you are doing 300k DPS you are still only healing yourself for 8k HPS, which may or may not be overheal. That said, this trinket may have some niche uses on an encounter or two where you can slap high powered diseases on a bunch of mobs who preferably won't fight back (stuff like Primordius oozes basically) or on mobs that take increased damage. But as you can tell from the rather contrived situations for the trinket to be even viable, this is not a trinket you should expect to use often or at all. Keep it if drops but don't actively pursue it is my recommendation. Glyphs Glyph of Festering Blood is, along with Glyph of Pestilence, another good and powerful glyph for AoE tanking. It offers superior burst threat/damage on new spawns and even with Roiling Blood it is a minor DPS increase because the first Blood Boil which spreads the damage does not get the +50% damage done bonus. Unfortunately this means that for AoE we only have one free glyph slot left so I do hope that Glyph of Pestilence might go baseline soon. Glyph of Regenerative Magic is fantastic and I expect this to be one of the glyphs that you will rarely if ever remove since there is no drawback in having this (except losing a glyph slot, obviously). This glyph should replace Glyph of Anti-Magic Shell barring few circumstances because they affect each other negatively. With Regenerative Magic you don't want to reach the absorb cap as quickly so you can get more CD reduction out of it. Ideally you will use AMS to survive the burst without utilizing the full duration so it doesn't absorb minor, incidental damage (i.e. on breath abilities which deliver the damage every 0.5 secs you don't necessarily have to pop AMS for the first tick unless not doing so will kill you) so that you may use AMS more often. This glyph will also provide a minor DPS increase since you will now be able to gain RP more often. If you want to be really clever you could also use a /cancelaura macro for AMS but I would consider that overkill for most purposes. :V Do note that the glyph and the CD reduction trinket are not working correctly together at the moment. If you take zero damage while AMS is up, the CD goes back to 22.5 secs which is half of the 45 base CD when it should have been 18.75. Either way, I think this bug will get fixed before 5.4 hits live servers and even if not, it's not a big deal since it still works properly in situations where you atleast take some magic with AMS up. Glyph of Loud Horn and Glyph of Swift Death are both utterly worthless for us and not worth slotting under any circumstance over the other alternatives. Misc This isn't technically a PTR change but a live hotfix/nerf: Death Coil heals/absorbs via Lichborne/Glyph do not generate Blood Tap charges anymore. This is a minor a nerf to Lichborne and our utility via the glyph so I do hope that this will get reverted in the near future.