• Announcements

    • Forum Rules (Updated 3/22/14)   07/14/10

      Welcome to the Elitist Jerks forums, a WoW discussion forum targeted towards topics regarding high-end raiding and analysis of game mechanics. We ask you to take a few minutes to read the following before making use of these forums.   First, a point of clarification. The name of these forums is not intended ironically; we have high standards for the discussion that occurs herein, and we're quite unapologetic about it. If you feel our rules are stupid or arbitrary, we don't really care. If you don't wish to follow them, you're welcome to return to the official Blizzard forums.   Following is a brief listing of our forum rules; note that it is by no means exhaustive, as in our experience people are quite innovative in finding new ways to be stupid. These are simply a set of guidelines to get you started in the right direction. If you follow them, you will generally do fine here; however, if you concoct some creative new form of stupidity, our moderators feel no need to restrain themselves in letting you know. All posters are to make an effort to communicate clearly. In particular, all posts should be made in a reasonable approximation of proper English. We realize that a significant number of you are not native speakers, and we do not expect perfection: merely effort. Please obey basic rules of capitalization and punctuation, avoid chatroom abbreviations ("lol", "imo", "u", and the like), and pay at least minimal attention to sentence and paragraph structure. This includes not starting a new paragraph for each sentence. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible. Do not make multiple consecutive posts; rather, multi-quote and include all your ideas in a single post. Do not quote huge blocks of text to add a short reply; instead, quote only what you need to to make your point. Do not break a single quoted reply into multiple blocks; doing so needlessly lengthens your post without aiding its readability. And don't provide unnecessary backstory: if it isn't relevant to the question you're asking or the point you're making, we don't need to know about it. All discussion should be both polite and civil. Trolling or flaming in any form is forbidden. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are stupid or on drugs and their personal hygiene isn't really relevant to the discussion. Regardless of the merit (or lack thereof) of your argument, it should be made in a way that is neither insulting nor condescending. Whining in any form is forbidden. Blizzard is not incompetent or stupid and they are not intentionally screwing you over and neither is anyone else. If all you're going to do is complain, don't bother posting. Threads should be started if and only if there is some reasonable topic to discuss. If the issue you wish to discuss is covered in an existing thread, use it rather than creating a new one. If you are asking a simple question that you expect to have a simple answer, ask it in one of the "Simple Questions/Simple Answers" threads. But if you feel there is a topic of discussion not well-covered by existing threads, feel free to start a new thread to discuss it. Some sub-forums restrict new members from creating new topics unless they've made at least 10 approved posts, to prevent spamming or bad posts. If you really think it deserves a new thread before you have 10 posts, contact a moderator with your post content. Do not post unless you have something new and worthwhile to say. Do not bump, quote for truth, cross-post, or post only to say thanks. We don't want to hear your funny story about something that happened in your raid last night, your baseless speculation is unproductive, and your idea for a new ability really isn't that interesting. We don't care what gear you are hoping to get or just received. If you have an idea you'd like to share with the community, support it with analysis, testing, or both that indicates you've put some thought into it. (Note: Posting of a new untested spec falls under this rule, unless you have done the grunt work and have information to support your amazing new spec don't even bother posting it here.) Do not beg for hand-holding. These are forums for discussion and analysis, not for answering any question that you might happen to dream up. Search and read before posting--do not post a question unless you are fairly confident that the answer isn't widely known or easily attainable. In particular, we do not want to take a look at your armory or WWS to tell you what you're doing wrong and we're not interested in making your tough gear or spec decisions for you. We expect you to use the search function and also to read the first post as well as the last 5 pages of the thread you are posting in. Chances are your question has already been answered. Additionally, do not post asking for confirmation of a simulation result. If you think there is a problem with the Sim you are welcome to PM the author. All accounts must have a valid WoW profile. If you no longer play and have deleted all characters you used to have, you may select the "No WoW Account" option; otherwise, this information must be filled out for your main character. If you fail to observe this rule you'll be permanently banned from our forums. We do not permit anonymous posting. Do not sign your posts. People can see who you are from the profile printed to the left of each post, so signing your posts is redundant and simply takes up space. Similarly, you do not need to link your armory in your post, as if people wish to see it they can get it from your profile. Do not respond to terrible posts. Do not respond to a blatantly awful post (a post that is in clear violation of the rules) either in an attempt to moderate them or to answer a question they posed. Your post will just be warned/infracted and removed with the post you are replying to. If you feel that a post is in violation of these rules, please report it and the moderators will deal with it as we feel is appropriate. No Advertising. Do not make posts solely for the purpose of advertising your site/blog/twitch/etc. You may post such things if it's relevant and adds to discussion at hand. If you have information to share, share it here with a link back to your blog or whatever. Do not post "I have information, come to my site to get it". That will result in an immediate infraction and post removal. Also, we will remove any link to a site that violates a games TOS/EULA such as gold selling sites.

      If you violate a forum rule, you will receive an infraction. Most infractions are worth one point, although we reserve the right to give you more at any time if we feel you deserve them. If you accumulate too many infraction points, you will receive an automatic (usually temporary) ban which revokes your posting privileges, as follows: 3 Points - 1 Day 5 Points - 3 Days 8 Points - 1 Week 10 Points - 1 Month 15 Points - Permanent

      Familiarize yourself with The Banhammer, an archive of all infractions given by the moderators here; it will give you some examples of what not to do. Also feel free to take a gander over The Dung Heap, which will give you a good idea of what these forums would look like if we weren't such jerks.   Thank you for joining the discussion!
    • Site Maintenance (Updated 11-12-15)   10/01/15

      Site has been updated to IPS as of 12 November Known Issues So Far: Old wowhead "item" tags are depricated. They may be re-added to fix some issues with older guides, but for most part it's better to just use the modern wowhead.js which auto parses actual wowhead links automatically into tooltips/names. Just post wowhead links in guides and the js will do the rest. You don't need a special BB code for items. Old article links will be broken do to IPS 4 changing url path to remove some pointless "/_/" directory. The articles are still there and can be found in guides menu. You just may not be able to click links from any threads linking to them without editing out the "/_/" part of url. I'll fix most of this little by little when more important stuff is taken care of. External links/google search results may run into same problem. That will just rely on waiting for google to reindex new paths. After you login, you may be thrown to an error page saying page cannot be found if you logged in from the forum index. Harmless though. Just click "forums" and you'll get forum index since redirect after login is busted. The benefactors bar seems to hang/timeout sometimes.


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Erdluf

  • Rank
    Great Tiger
  • Birthday 02/12/57

Profile Information

  • Occupation Computer geek

WoW Profile

  • Character Name Erdluf
  • Guild Savvy
  • Guild URL http://www.savvyguild.com
  1. WrathCalcs 6.0

    I don't see a link for 140620 version.   Looks like 140612 version is missing 5% base crit (all classes, but some, like ferals, get another 10%) and 3% Versatility raid buff included in MotW.
  2. WrathCalcs 6.0

    I'm not sure of the exact mechanics, but assume that the Starsurge timer is set to 30s whenever you drop below full (or it just went off and you weren't full), and also that Starsurge remains an extremely powerful spell (substantially more damage than our other nukes, and much higher DPET).   It would mean we'll almost never want to be holding on to more than one charge (for fear that shooting stars would reset the timer).  That means that we will often be using Starsurge at "poor" times (bad spots on the eclipse cycle, or wasting Empowered charges).   I had been thinking we would open with something like    CA MF Flare SS SF ... but perhaps it will be closer to    CA MF Flare SS SS SF ... and at higher crit levels, at least the first SS might go before Flare.
  3. [Balance] New 6.0 Rotation Discussion

    Well, one second of AC gets your cycle down to 36s.  That means you can have 100% Sunfire uptime, with 10s at 50% Mastery, and 26s at 100% mastery.   Alternatively, if you are full of Starsurge charges, but at a bad point for Starsurge+Empowerment, 1-3s of AC could get you to a much better place.   I doubt that either of those is a win very often, but a Starsurge with 2s left in Solar is worth a lot less than a Starsurge at effectively 6s into Lunar (2s of AC will move you that far).
  4. [Balance] New 6.0 Rotation Discussion

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/474437667963150337, Stellar Flare mastery bonus will be the product of both current Lunar and Solar bonuses.   So If I have 60% Mastery, my MF could get a multiplier anywhere from 1.3 to 1.6 (can't cast MF on Solar half), a 23% relative spread.   At worst, Flare would have a bonus of (1+.6)*(1+0) = 1.6, and at best (normally) 1.3*1.3 = 1.69.  Essentially that curve is mostly flat and low.  It has a peak that is somewhat pointy, but not very tall.  The main reason to cast Flare at the perfect time is not to give it a big bonus (<6% more than its weakest bonus), but to avoid casting anything else at a time when that "something else" has a low bonus.   However, during CA, Flare's bonus would be 1.6*1.6 or 2.56.   At first that 2.56 seems like a lot, but perhaps not.  During CA, a MF cast applies both MF and SuF DoTs, effectively doubling the DoT damage it would be doing (at least for a while).  CA's damage increase (in my example) is 2.56/1.69, or about a 50% increase.   MF probably got an even larger benefit.   Bottom line,the quadratic scaling is a concern, but if at 60% Mastery, non-CA MF does about the same damage as non-CA Flare, then Flare's CA scaling isn't going to be "crazy high" until we see Mastery numbers substantially over 100% (third tier of the expansion might be the earliest that happens).
  5. WrathCalcs 6.0

    More named cells (or attached cell comments) on the Rotation tab please.  I don't yet have a good enough feel for this stuff to understand all that is going on.   Spells tab: It seems that for empowered casts, Bliz is more likely to code t/1.2 than t*0.8, but I don't know that for sure.   I'm thinking rotations are going to include rules approximately like Don't cast MF/SuF in the last 5 seconds before CA becomes available. Do cast MF during CA whenever the cast will clip at most one of MF or SuF. Those rules almost guarantee at least one MF during CA (and on rare occasions two MF during CA).  That might mean that out-of-CA DoT casts will be a bit less (perhaps 7/8) than you'd otherwise predict.
  6. [Balance] New 6.0 Rotation Discussion

    I agree that Stellar Flare has the best "feel" to it for PvE.  Being able to do something useful when Lunar and Solar are both weak seems like a big plus, and should make the rotation more interesting.  I'd say the same for PvP, except that Flare is not instant cast.  Risking a both-schools lockout for a DoT cast sounds like a poor choice (unless we can kick butt as a Bear or Cat for six seconds or so).   I'd originally (incorrectly) read that with Euphoria, SS gave 20% haste for six seconds.  That would make that talent much more competitive, since your existing DoTs (which don't snapshot haste), would speed up for a little bit.  Euphoria also has the advantage that if you clip a DoT at low energy (because of movement, for instance), you don't have to wait nearly as long to repair the damage.
  7. [Balance] New 6.0 Rotation Discussion

    Worth noting that with Eclipse going to 40s, (and Sunfire to 20+s), only one of the three T100 talents will have a tough time maintaining Sunfire, at least for a Patchwerk fight.  Euphoria will have a 20s cycle to go with that 20s DoT.  Balance of Power will maintain that DoT for you almost forever.   Stellar Flare doesn't have either of those advantages, but it does have another always up DoT.
  8. Warlords of Draenor Druid discussion

    Edit: Oops, I misread the SotF tooltip when I wrote this.  It seems to add 30% mastery only when casting an empowered Wrath or Starfire.  That means the other percentages will drop, and SF/Wr will contribute a bit more, percentage-wise.   I did a simple Balance simulator (CA, SF, Wr, SS, MF, SuF, Flare, shooting stars, and empowerment from Starsurge, no talents other than SotF), just to generate some logs and get a feel for how things would change.  For numbers, I based things off of Wrath: Starfire: DPET 5% larger than Wrath Starsurge DPET 100% larger than Wrath Each DoT tick, 25% of Wrath damage DoT direct damage, same as a DoT tick (except MF gets double that). I assumed Flare has its own Eclipse sine wave, which peaks when Lunar/Solar are both at 50%. I assumed gaining SS from a DoT tick does not reset the 30s SS timer. I used low gear levels (Crit/Haste/Mastery (with SotF) at 15%, 15%, 82%)   Starsurge count (and direct contribution) drops significantly from what we are used to.  Over a not-quite three minute fight: SF 27 casts, 28% of damage Wr 33, 20% MF Ticks: 96, 15% SuF Ticks 95, 13% SS 11, 10% Flare Ticks 66, 9% MF DD 5, 2% Flare DD 11, 1% SuF DD 8, 1%   The other big surprise was how fast the Eclipse% changes in the middle of the curve.  From the log, a Wrath and SunFire were cast simultaneously with, with Solar at 72%, the next cast was a StarFire, completed slightly less than 4s later(gcd+3s cast and not much haste) with Lunar at 68%, so in 4s, the Lunar percentage climbed from 28% to 68%.
  9. [Balance] WrathCalcs

    WC doesn't have a fight length, so it tends to undervalue cooldowns.  Cooldowns are very strong at the beginning of a fight, and you can also use a 3m cooldown four times in a 10m fight.   WC assumes most procs occur randomly which tends to undervalue the benefit of stacking them.  Again, this is particularly important at the start of a fight.   I'm not sure either tool does a really good job in fights where the the nature of the fight changes repeatedly (number of targets, damage boosts, ...).
  10. [Balance] WrathCalcs

    Just a note if anyone is currently entering Timeless Isle, "of the whatever" stats into the spreadsheet. Armory currently shows the secondary stats before upgrading (and that is the number you want to enter on the Gear tab). Armory seems to be using the correct value in the total-stat summary. Those totals just don't match what it displays for the gear. I had assumed that armory showed the upgraded stats, and was backing-out the upgrade. That got WC to match Armory on the individual pieces of gear, but the totals were not matching (WC showed me short of the hit cap by about 60, even though Armory said I was at 5100). For example, my upgraded Fire-Chanter boots of the Decimator show 1408/1292 Int/Crit in armory. Armory shows 1307/1292 before upgrade. AMR shows 1408/1392 for the upgraded boots. AMR crit total for the toon agrees with the Armory crit total.
  11. Starfire takes slightly longer to cast than HT, at least without pushback. Last time I checked, pushback is not affected by Haste. There is always the possibility that you won't end up casting any late SF, because of Starsurge procs, but you should probably quantify that argument.
  12. [Balance] WrathCalcs

    If you look at the numbers, with multiple targets, you probably only want to maintain one non-eclipsed DoT, if more Eclipsed targets are available. Suppose I have time to put up six DoTs, and for a single DoT I'd average 1 Shooting Star. [TABLE]#Eclipsed|#Non|#Shooting 3|3|3.5 4|2|3.4 5|1|3.2 6|0|2.4 [/TABLE] In Lunar, I might value SS enough to convert 1MF to SuF, just to gain 0.8 SS (2.4 to 3.2). It seems unlikely that I'd want to make that trade just to gain 0.2 SS (3.2 to 3.4). From a mechanics standpoint, putting MF/SuF on each target is probably easier, but I doubt if it will be optimal.
  13. [Balance] WrathCalcs

    I see the burst at 10296 in both spreadsheets. It is from an extra FoN cast (NG, no other haste procs, goes from eight to nine casts). Maybe you had Incarnation in one of your sheets?
  14. [Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.4

    However, we have substantial health (140k or so, I believe) that is not from Stamina. Bear boosts stamina, not base health. 500k = 140k base + 360k from Stamina. A 40% increase to 72% of our health, is a bit less than a 30% overall increase. That distinction is particular important at lower gear levels (and ilvl-capped instances).
  15. Assuming 4t15, Sinister, 50% each crit, haste, mastery during Eclipse+NG, napkin math seems to show the following three rotations are about equal DPS: 1) With about 13 targets (or more) do nothing but cast your Eclipsed MF forever. Here I am measuring the steady-state DPS once NG has fallen off. You aren't using 2t15 or 4t15 with this rotation. 2) With five or more targets, alternate MF (or SuF, whichever is better at the moment and not on some target) and instant SS when available (it will be available about 85% of the time, a little less if you take reaction time into account). LS*3 is up all the time. NG is up for about 80% of your casts. You are making good use of 2t15 to extend DoTs, and 4t15 for extra mastery and crit. 3) Seven-target Hurricane (with Eclipse, but not NG or a Sinister proc) is also about the same DPS.