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      Welcome to the Elitist Jerks forums, a WoW discussion forum targeted towards topics regarding high-end raiding and analysis of game mechanics. We ask you to take a few minutes to read the following before making use of these forums.   First, a point of clarification. The name of these forums is not intended ironically; we have high standards for the discussion that occurs herein, and we're quite unapologetic about it. If you feel our rules are stupid or arbitrary, we don't really care. If you don't wish to follow them, you're welcome to return to the official Blizzard forums.   Following is a brief listing of our forum rules; note that it is by no means exhaustive, as in our experience people are quite innovative in finding new ways to be stupid. These are simply a set of guidelines to get you started in the right direction. 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    • Site Maintenance (Updated 11-12-15)   10/01/15

      Site has been updated to IPS as of 12 November Known Issues So Far: Old wowhead "item" tags are depricated. They may be re-added to fix some issues with older guides, but for most part it's better to just use the modern wowhead.js which auto parses actual wowhead links automatically into tooltips/names. Just post wowhead links in guides and the js will do the rest. You don't need a special BB code for items. Old article links will be broken do to IPS 4 changing url path to remove some pointless "/_/" directory. The articles are still there and can be found in guides menu. You just may not be able to click links from any threads linking to them without editing out the "/_/" part of url. I'll fix most of this little by little when more important stuff is taken care of. External links/google search results may run into same problem. That will just rely on waiting for google to reindex new paths. After you login, you may be thrown to an error page saying page cannot be found if you logged in from the forum index. Harmless though. Just click "forums" and you'll get forum index since redirect after login is busted. The benefactors bar seems to hang/timeout sometimes.


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  1. The Effin Hunter Guide (6.2)

    Can you explain what's causing focusing shot to be consistently superior than adaptation for BM AOE? Intuitively I'm surprised it's even close, I expected adaptation to crush it (and only get better with more targets). Very often I don't feel focus limited at all during BM AOE (meaning I can keep beast cleave running full time and barrage on cooldown, sacrificing kill command with more than 2 enemies), certainly not with bestial wrath up.   Going in with the knowledge that it's simming better I would guess fight length is the major factor? I hadn't thought about it before, but using focusing shot would mean you cast more multishots, which didn't matter in t17, but now can help extend focus fire significantly longer, and THAT would make a big difference if the AOE phase is lasting long enough that adaptation's focus fire would fall off. It would have to be a long time though, because even with adaptation it seems like I can keep that first focus fire running for a very long time, particularly with the help of bestial wrath... obviously dependent on luck, but often long enough to build up another 4-5 stacks. That second focus fire won't last nearly as long without bestial wrath though, so the point at which THAT one falls off is where focusing shot starts to gain the advantage. If I'm right, the question is about how long should you expect an AOE phase to last before focusing shot becomes better. Are the sims set to use variable fight lengths?   Actually there's one other important factor too - whether you begin the AOE phase with a 5-stack ready to go, or at 0 stacks. In fact that may be the thing that gives adaptaion the biggest advantage, since that's the situation in which focus is the least constrained (you get to use a fresh 5-stack with bestial wrath right from the start). If the sims don't check this I think it would be worthwhile, since a lot of the time you WILL be able to plan for add phases and have that 5-stack going in. It may not always be possible depending on the fight or luck, but I feel like in most fights if we're playing optimally we'll have that 5-stack, so we would want to plan talents around the optimal situation.
  2. [MoP] Beastmastery 5.4

    What exactly is the problem with it only procing from your attacks and not your pet's? If there is a time when your pet is able to attack but you are not, you wouldn't want it to proc then anyway because only your pet would benefit. You also aren't losing procs because your pet can't trigger it, it's an RPPM trinket. If you want us to figure out more you need to post logs.   It does still proc from pretty much anything you do while in combat including feign death, deterrence, dismiss pet, misdirection, and racial abilities like darkflight, among others. It's actually more than a little annoying, you need to be careful what you do if you aren't actually able to attack a target for a while.
  3. Warlords of Draenor hunter discussion

    If we assume our pets will do only 15% of our damage then it's even better still! But that doesn't mean it's a fair assumption. At least for single target, they will figure out how much of our damage they want our pets to do, then balance WOWY to account for that number relative to the opportunity cost of not taking the other talents in the tier, depending on how much damage they want the class to gain from that talent row. Trying to guess any of the actual numbers right now is pointless. There are plenty of issues they have to work out before they even think about balancing the numbers (like what they want to do about fervor, intimidation, blink strikes, and lynx rush if you don't have a pet).   I would expect it to eventually end up being worth a bit less damage than a talent like Snipe by default because Snipe is an active talent with a drawback while WOWY is a passive talent with extra benefit in that you can avoid the occasional pet AI issues when they pop up for some fights and is also likely to be superior for AOE.   As for bola shot, I meant 'uninspired' as uncreative or uninteresting, rather than not being inspired by something else. It makes much more sense in a Diablo setting where you have many more options for that button slot and can use runes to modify it to do more interesting things, but for WOW as a level 100 talent? I think it's probably just a placeholder ability they put in so they could show off a 'full' talent tree at blizzcon. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm expecting many more changes than just that.
  4. Warlords of Draenor hunter discussion

    Ah okay, that makes a bit more sense, but rereading it I'm still not sure I understand the question. If you take that talent as MM/SV then you really shouldn't be using a pet because that's like throwing away your level 100 talent. That's potentially a big price to pay in order to protect your damage in the case your pet happens to die (assuming that does trigger the talent) or you want to dismiss it for a while because it can't attack. If having a pet out is worth more than the damage gained from the talent (remember to factor in buffs/debuffs provided by your pet that you might otherwise be missing) then you should probably just use the pet and take a different talent; unless the fight is REALLY unconducive to snipe's movement limitation and bola shot's damage.   Also keep in mind this is quite early in design/testing for the expansion. I would not be surprised if none of those 3 talents made it to live. Particularly bola shot, which seems rather uninspired.
  5. Warlords of Draenor hunter discussion

      Very unlikely, as the talents are different by spec. It will probably function like the priest talents that do different things for disc/holy and shadow; if you're shadow spec you get the shadow version of the talent, even if you aren't in shadowform.   As far as choosing not to run with a pet as BM in case the talent DID give you 30% damage, there's still no way it would be optimal. Right now as BM my pet does closer to 45% of my damage and that's with bare minimum mastery reforging. If they plan on 30% being the balance point for the talent for survival and MM it stands to reason that even if they change a lot of things between now and 6.0 BM's pet damage will still be considerably higher than that. Basically if there's a fight where you would consider not using a pet as BM, even with 30% more damage for you, you should really think about using a different spec instead.
  6. Hunter DPS Analyzer (MoP edition)

    That's a part of it, but it's also related to weapon damage. Glaive toss scales only with attack power but powershot (and barrage for that matter) do a % of weapon damage, and the really high-end weapons buff them considerably. This is also part of the reason marksmanship is creeping up on survival and BM, at least now with the chimera buff. Additionally, since powershot is a 45 second cooldown, how strong it is will depend on how long a fight lasts. If the fight ends with powershot say 10 seconds away from being usable, that means you could have potentially gotten off another 2 glaive tosses. Of course it's true the other way as well, if the fight ends shortly after you're able to use powershot it will be better by comparison.
  7. [MoP] Beastmastery 5.4

    I haven't been lucky with drops so I can't test, but I read on mmo-champion (4T16 proc for BM, Designed on Purpose?) that the 4 piece bonus for beast mastery doesn't behave the way you would expect from the tooltip with regard to pet damage. Specifically, the hunter half of the buff works the way you would think, each ability cast increases the damage of the next by 4%, but the pet half is based on the PET'S use of special attacks and is buffed separately from the hunter (and does NOT stack up when kill command is used) rather than simply being paired with the hunter's half of the buff (so, the pet gains a stack of the damage buff when it uses claw/bite/smack, not when the hunter uses arcane shot or kill command or something). Can anyone with the 4 piece confirm this functionality? If it does work this way we should post it as a bug, since it seems very unlikely blizzard would intend for the pet's buff to never even reach the cap, and considering the relative strength of survival's 4 piece bonus this would make BM's already less than stellar bonus even worse. Edit: included source discussion. And I didn't notice before but zeherah was involved in that discussion so I guess it does definitely work that way.
  8. [MoP] Beastmastery 5.4

    Spirit bond can be worth it, depending on the fight, but the comparison between HPS and DTPS isn't so straightforward that you can just compare the numbers. Reducing damage taken is generally more valuable in a raid setting because it makes you more likely to survive bursts of damage whereas a tick or two of 9k healing wouldn't make a difference.
  9. [MoP] Beastmastery 5.4

    For the most part you can safely ignore wild hunt and just let it do its thing, which is just to translate excess focus regen from haste or procs into damage since pets can only use their basic attack every 3 seconds at most. The only time you may want to do something about it is if you have a predictable burst DPS window coming up and you want to pool focus in order to get extra damage during the window. You can toggle your pet's basic attack off a few seconds in advance and then back on when you want to reengage. The only time I've really tried to make use of this was AOEing ball lightning on heroic Lei Shen 25. It does take up space on your bars for the macro and it requires attention (if you accidentally forget to toggle the attack back on you'll be kicking yourself; I made a very obvious weakaura pop up whenever it's not autocasting so I always remember), but not all that terrible once you get used to it. I would just toggle it off whenever I ran out to spawn the ball lightning, and then back on right after hitting multi-shot. You could also macro turning it back on to multi-shot (I didn't because I wanted to also use the 'auto-cast on' macro to apply a tallstrider's dust cloud right when the adds are gripped in).
  10. After watching the video I gave this a shot. Very interesting fight and it took a few tries to figure out what I needed to do. The first trick is frontloading a lot of damage onto Anshal and honestly getting lucky with crits/trinkets makes a big difference. After about 3 seconds the other bosses figure out no one is on their platform, then Rohash silences you (can't cast kill command) and Nezir slows your haste by 2000%. Basically your opening burst has to get Anshal to around 50%, then you hope you have enough focus to arcane shot him down to 20%, then kill shot has to get him to 1%. This all has to happen before he puts up his healing ring, or just barely after. To facilitate this, before the fight I rotated through a serpent, wolf and core hound to get their buffs before starting the fight with a spirit beast. I also had a flask, food, drums of kings, and prepotted. I don't think I used a runescroll of fortitude on the kill attempt but I would recommend it if you have any. If you aren't able to get him down in time just dismiss pet and feign, if you're too slow here you won't survive later on. Unfortunately you have to wait 6 minutes between attempts for ancient hysteria unless you get really lucky without it. Nezir has significantly more HP and does a lot more damage than the other 2 (and by now Rohash's debuff is starting to tick harder as well). You still won't be able to kill command but the haste debuff is gone. Stampede should be used right away, and readiness for another round of cooldowns but just as importantly to get an extra glaive toss quickly since that is your best attack. I found kiting Nezir a bit to be helpful, when he stops to cast you can create some distance and glyph of liberation is helpful too. Like in the video I used two spirit mends, the first as soon as I was low enough for it to not overheal and the second about halfway through. Make sure you jump to Rohash's platform as soon as Nezir dies because a few extra ticks of his debuff can be deadly. I found my potion cooldown from the prepot ran out right around the end of Nezir so I used it on a healing potion and it probably saved my life (you'll likely be sub-20% at this point). If you make it to Rohash's platform with more than a sliver of HP it should be a confirmed kill, once you clear the silence and damage over time debuff spirit bond will outheal his damage. I killed him before he reached full power but I don't think that should really make a difference.
  11. Hunter DPS Analyzer (MoP edition)

    On the previous page Zeherah you said you weren't totally sure about the implementation of the t15 set bonuses. I picked up the 4 piece set bonus tonight so I did some testing. Nothing particularly interesting came up, but in addition to what ghostcrawler said back in January (3 RPPM, buffed by survival mastery) I found the "lightning arrow", which looks like a white streak pretty similar to multishot, is able to crit, and when it procs on multishot it seems to only go to 1 target. After 100 procs from spamming multishot at the group of 3 target dummies in Stormwind I never saw it hit more than 1 from the same multishot. It also didn't prefer any of the 3 targets when it did proc, it was able to hit any of them. If there's anything specific you'd like me to test just let me know.
  12. Assuming they haven't changed the fight to disallow soloing him for some reason and you aren't just hitting the berserk, my best guess is that you're sitting in a lightning ball. Make sure you're strafing around him (you can use the circle on the minimap as a gauge of about how far away you should be) whenever he throws that ball at you. You can even preempt it a little by watching for him to drop his head down below his shoulders right before he spits it out. If you want a better assessment you'll have to provide logs or at least a picture of a death log.
  13. Hunter Simple Question / Simple Answers

    It's something that I've only been able to test with my own observations, but whenever I try it looks fairly conclusive. Yes, the GCD is incurred when you start to cast cobra shot but if you cancel the cast it also cancels the GCD and allows you to perform another action (it's not necessarily instantaneous but it is noticeably less than a full 1 second). Start cobra shot and then hit this macro (due to the less-than-instantaneous part you probably will have to spam the macro or at least hit it twice): /stopcasting /stopcasting /cast Explosive Shot You should see the explosive shot fire less than 1 second after you started the cobra shot, and if you have an addon that visually tracks the GCD in some way (quartz cast bar does this, for example) you should be able to see the GCD reset there as well. I couldn't find a video demonstrating what I'm talking about but the last post in the following thread sums it up: Stopcasting Dps Increase? - Forums - World of Warcraft. I know it's not evidence but at least it means I'm not a lone lunatic with a crazy story.
  14. Hunter Simple Question / Simple Answers

    I don't know how it affects the calculations but canceling a cobra/steady shot does NOT incur the full 1 second GCD, it actually cuts it short and lets you fire the second shot earlier. You can test this pretty easily with a GCD tracker and a macro on explosive shot or whatever you want. Note that for some reason you need to write /stopcasting on 2 consecutive lines in the macro or it won't always work. If you hit cobra shot and then hit the macro you will cancel the focus shot and fire the second shot in less than a second.
  15. Hunter DPS Analyzer (MoP edition)

    How is the bleed from lynx rush implemented with regard to readiness? Namely, does it recast it only after the bleed has fallen off? I did some quick testing against a dummy and found that using a second lynx rush before the first DOT has expired will refresh the 9-stack debuff but cause you to lose 1 tick of the bleed (13 instead of 14). This should be a DPS loss normally, but the wild card is parries which do prevent the debuff from stacking. Overlapping them guarantees the second lynx rush gets 7 ticks of 9 stacks at the cost of the final tick of the first lynx rush. I'm not sure how to figure out the actual chance for a parry due to the seemingly random nature of the jumping around pets do, and possibly the size of the enemies hitbox as a factor.