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Ptoleman

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About Ptoleman

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  • Birthday 08/18/88

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  • Character Name Valsorn
  • Gender Male
  • Race Worgen
  • Class
  • Realm Whisperwind
  • Realm Location United States
  • Guild Something Wicked
  • Guild URL www.somethingwickedguild.com
  1. Like I said, there's nothing illegitimate with those kind of theories in the WoW Universe. They can and do happen. However, they do require us to assume something unnecessary in the face of all evidence, and they can't be verified until after it's happened. That's not the same as speculating, say, how Garrosh will become leader of the Horde. We know he will, and we know its possible in the crazy world of politics, and it doesn't require us to believe that his current man is possessed. Even inside the imagination theories are subject to the scrutiny of simplicity. --- Varian's actions in the Undercity were myopic, not stupid. It's rather hard for outsiders in the Alliance to distinguish between Putress/Varimathras' Forsaken and Sylvanas' Forsaken. Not even Sylvanas' knew of the plots against her, and the issue becomes worse when you consider that Varimathras' and Sylvanas' long-term agendas only differed in loyalty and execution. The Forsaken as a whole still want to wipe everyone out--or at least eliminate anyone who is a serious threat to them--and that qualifies pretty much the entire Alliance, given them every reason to be suspicious and fearful. Yes, Varian should have been more thoughtful about it and chose a more pragmatic route--fighting Thrall and Sylvanas in those sewers would have caused great harm to both factions regardless of the outcome--but both his and Thrall's actions in the Undercity are totally understandable given what they've been through as individuals and what political/social/cultural contexts they exist in. The factions in the Horde have a bad history of rampaging over planets and killing people. Varian myopically sees what's happened in the Undercity as one in a long, simplistic line of atrocities on the part of the Horde. He's emotionally simplifying a complex issue. Myopic and foolish, but not stupid.
  2. Mal'Garrosh or Garfarian theories are kind of pointless to speculate about since they can only be verified ex post facto. They also violate Occam's Razor, which is why they tend to be used very sparingly in lore. Not to say that such lore is automatically illegitimate: it's certainly possible in the WoW universe. We've got the Cosmic Windchime Gods floating in Shatt. But still: "So instead of this guy actually being a jerk as all signs indicate, he's REALLY a Nathrezim/Dragon/Crazed Gnome impersonating him and the REAL guy is actually very reasonable and tolerable and...." Garrosh <-> Garithos is a pretty good comparison, but I like to put Garithos on his own pedestal of idiocy, as he was responsible for throwing away one of the best allies the Alliance has ever had. The wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time, no? We shall have to wait and see if Garrosh proves as equally disastrous for the Horde. I doubt it. -- Anyway, back on the nature of Garrosh. I think it also should be said that it's hard to view the in-game presentation of the Thrall/Garrosh duel as being anything but lame, which might be a minor factor in why Garrosh is disliked. Perhaps the comic had more to say about it due to the flexibility of the medium compared to a small world event, but Thrall's "loss" to Garrosh in game seemed very contrived, given how powerful Thrall has been stated to be. I think some speculated at the time that Thrall intentionally lost to Garrosh so as to prevent more inner conflict, yet the point stands. The duel probably ticked some Horde players off: it was their first impression of Garrosh v. Thrall and subsequent exchanges have failed to paint Garrosh in any better of a light. [Edited for spelling]
  3. Something like that has already been confirmed in Cataclysm. If I recall, Sylvanas invades Gilneas to try to improve her standing with the other Horde leaders and gain new territory, causing the Worgen to join the Alliance. But don't forget that the Forsaken pretty much hate everyone. :) Garrosh's actions might be tolerable were the Lich King or other more pressing threats not around. Unfortunately, they are. With Garrosh going around kicking everybody's buttons, he's proving a huge detriment to an effective front against Arthas for no discernible reason. He hasn't had much contact with the Alliance to explain his hatred of it, and he seems to lack even a basic understanding of logistics and tactics. How he got so much power or influence in the Horde is perplexing. I think most people dislike him because he just comes across as a mindless Horde fanboy who got where he is through blood instead of merit. (And because Metzen said so.) Horde players would rather have a strong-willed, intelligent Thrall or Saurfang Sr. compared to someone so bratty and foolish.
  4. Simply put, a Scourge without some leadership or logical vision just goes about rampaging across Azeroth without any sort of purpose. It wouldn't just be all the ghouls being unleashed a la Army of the Dead, though. You'd have the Cult of the Damned, the San'layn, the Frostbrood, etc., all bereft of their leader, and they split off and go around trying to further their own myopic agendas without regard to the bigger picture, causing mass devastation. Devastation with a purpose > devastation without a purpose, all things being equal. Who wouldn't rather the Scourge be easily eliminated when Arthas is killed? After spending a lot of time in the depths of Frostmourne, Uther has probably gained some keen (if horrific) insight into how the Scourge works as an Intellect. He knows what would probably happen if we just cut off Arthas' head and left Frostmourne there to rot, i.e., nothing good in the long-run. His statements to Jaina are rather calculated: better that someone noble and fundamentally uncorrupted to hold and bind the Scourge together so it can disintegrate or be dismantled without causing great harm to all Azeroth.
  5. I always thought the Sindorei joined the Horde because of political convenience and their ties to the Forsaken. The Blood Elves don't want anything to do with the Alliance, for justified and unjustified reasons, so they turn to the other major power on Azeroth for protection as it were. As a culture and society, however, the Blood Elves have far more in common with the Alliance than the Horde, even if they have bad feelings towards each other. They only remain in the Horde, again, for convenience--and because their own actions ruined any chance for reconciliation with the Alliance for quite some time, although given the events at the Sunwell they would seem to have a rather chummy relationship with the Draenei now, don't you think? The Horde is truly a horde: a mixed bag of races with little societal or cultural similarity coming together through the personal actions of a few leaders and all measures of political and military convenience. Like others have said, the trouble is it's becoming difficult to continue justifying the Horde's continued coherence as time goes on. Were the lore not bound by the needs of gameplay, the Horde would be gravely unstable and probably fragment in Cataclysm, if it hadn't fragmented already by now due to the disaster at the Wrathgate and other incidents in Wrath. We even see this pattern continue in Cataclysm. The only reason the Goblins join the Horde is because Thrall saves/aids them. Again. This is, what, the third or fourth race the Warchief has single-handedly saved? It's official: Thrall will never, ever die. The Worgen, on the other hand, join the Alliance for a myriad of political, social, cultural, military, and historical reasons.
  6. The Covenant and the Sunreavers are two small orders based in Dalaran with little-to-no power outside of areas under Dalaran's influence. They mostly serve as a sort of "hedge" that allows Dalaran to include both factions while maintaining order and segregation. Their in-game purpose has always been to separate the factions. There might have been some underlying plot planned for them at the beginning of Wrath (see: the encampments in Crystalsong), but that was never followed through. In essence, they have very little real power of their own. I would hesitate to call the Covenant representative of an entire race for those reasons alone. Allieria said what I was going to say about Quel'dorei demographics.
  7. Garithos holds much of the blame for ruining the Blood Elves' relationship with the Alliance and the state of Humanity as is, but we must keep blame in its place. After leaving Azeroth all of Kael's decisions and choices were his own, nothing more. The Alliance and the Horde have their own sins and accomplishments. It's silly to try to pigeonhole them into black and white roles. I don't deem them "equals" in the pro/cons department--I believe the Alliance to be a superior faction to the Horde for many reasons--but the moral argument will always be fundamentally subjective and thus pointless. Neither the game nor the lore declares either faction to be good or bad. Even the Forsaken, as dubious and conspicuously malevolent as they are, have some good members--though fewer than some apologists would like. I agree that the Horde as a darker past than the Alliance overall, but bickering about it accomplishes little.
  8. @Wyldthang: Sylvanas' forces were quite hostile to all others around her the moment from the very beginning. She immediately ordered her banshees to possess many factions who had nothing to do with their enslavement (ogres, gnolls, bandits, murlocs, etc.) and used them to subdue Varimathras. Then she shamelessly lied to Garithos and his forces, promising them she'd relinquish Lordaeron when the Scourge had been driven from the land. After Garithos' forces aided her in winning her independence, she quickly disposed of them without a second thought. I'm not saying Garithos was innocent--he got far, far less than he deserved--but he had little to do with the actions of the Forsaken apart from being the puppet of Detheroc. They've always been a dubious faction in word and deed.
  9. "Sideshow" was written in the context of Mal'ganis' WC3 role. As shown by his unexpected non-demise at the hands of a newly Frostmourne'd Arthas, Mal'ganis was a sideshow even then, a random Nathrezim who underestimated Ner'zhul. He served no purpose in the Legion or the plot other than to facilitate Arthas' contact with Frostmourne. Once he served his purpose, he was immediately offed and we never see or hear of him again until he randomly pops up at New Hearthglen. We don't even know it's Mal'ganis until Onslaught Harbor, where his appearance is pointless. He just proudly pronounces that we "need" him somehow and then non-dies. Again. Showing up in the Halls of Reflection would make a certain amount of sense, but with Jaina/Sylvanas already being set up there as the main plot figures, I'd say it's unlikely. Of course, we have no way to know for sure until Halls of Reflection is up on the PTR. Speculation is fun in the meantime. ;) Still, it wouldn't be surprising if this remains just another unresolved thread at the end of Wrath.
  10. Hmm, I can see it now: Mal'garrosh. I like it. But on topic, how would Mal'ganis legitimately show up without causing a general "Lolwut?" moment? As an NPC in an encounter? A separate encounter? I highly doubt he'd show up in the Arthas Fight. I'm pretty sure Blizzard wants it to be a final, climactic battle involving all the major players. Mal'ganis just seems to be a sideshow, certainly not as relevant as Sylvanas, Darion, or Tirion.
  11. Are we sure that the Ebon Blade's raising capabilities extend beyond raising mindless zombies? I don't remember what happens in that quest Kaejin linked. (There are so many quests in Northrend...) I can imagine that raising a ghoul requires much less effort and power than tearing a full-fledged soul--sentience, consciousness, and all--back from the dead, considering concoctions and tinctures alone can raise zombies like the plague. Ha ha, puns. To Arthas, raising a banshee or Lich might not seem like much, since he does it all the time, but the Ebon Blade has its limits. I don't think they can do anything beyond making a few ghouls and such, but I could be wrong.
  12. Well, the Ebon Blade may reek of death, but it's not like they're a bunch of crazed, psychopathic lunatics. Darion's Ebon Blade is probably the most lucid and effectual of all the factions out there. They're pretty much the only force, Horde or Alliance, who see the situation clearly and understand what they're up against without regards to politics, the finer points of morality, and personal feelings. They let logic and a cold desire for vengeance dictate their actions, which ironically pits them against the idea of unnecessary bloodbaths. I imagine they view such things as a waste of time and resources, causing a whole bunch of headaches and wasting otherwise valuable resources and men that could have been put to use against the Lich King. And let's not forget how useful the dead are to Arthas. Had the Ebon Blade gone on an unreserved rampage in Northrend, I think the uniqueness of their faction would be sorely lost. An Orc commander might order a village in the way of his army to be burned, but the Ebon Blade would certainly try to find a way around the village, not only to save time and resources, but to deprive the Lich King of potential soldiers.
  13. I counted twelve from the description. The Blues have there will be no vehicle battles in Icecrown, so the Gunship battle is probably a scripted Akama-style event (although hopefully not a pushover) with a faction-specific endboss. Make the two abominations separate encounters and you get twelve. You could also have twelve bosses if you omitted the Gunship battle as an encounter and separated the Three Princes into separate encounters, but I doubt it. The Blizzcon pictures and the description itself gainsay that theory.
  14. Well, to be fair, we won't know the exact extent of the content revamp (or even if the leaks are all true, despite MMO-C's historical trustworthiness) until Friday-ish, so patience is key. :) But it might not be as much work as we think. They work on expansions years in advance; it's far easier to revamp old content than to create new. Some zones might not get much of a revamp anyway. If we presume the Cataclysm emanates from the Maelstrom, we can assume that the most affected areas would be the eastern coasts of Kalimdor and the western coast of the Kingdoms. That leaves us with a list areas more likely to get a revamp: (I am not betting anything on this list, btw. It's utter speculation and I fully expect Blizzcon to prove it wrong on many accounts.) Azshara - major revamp Durotar - major Barrens -> split into two zones, supposedly Dustwallow Marsh - unsure Tanaris - unsure Thousand Needles - major Tirisfal Glades - minor Silverpine Forest - major revamp due to Gilneas Hillsbrad Foothills - major Arathi Highlands - minor Wetlands - major Badlands/Searing Gorge - included because a "new" Blackrock mountain was mentioned in MMO's notes Dun Morogh - Gnomeregan; more of an instance revamp than anything else Elwynn Forest/Westfall - major Stranglethorn - major Darkshire - I assume Darkshire would be addressed somewhat because of the Worgen storyline The rest of the zones would get small, minor revisions: quest changes and clean-ups, small terrain modifications and improvements for flying, NPC changes, etc. So that's, what, 17 zones up for revamp, with about half of those being true overhauls? We also have to consider that Azeroth zones are about half the size of Northrend zones on average, so that comes to about 6-8 Northrend Zones in content. This doesn't include the "new" zones like Gilneas and the Goblin Starting zones, so add about 3 new zones there (I presume Silverpine will count as the Worgen 10-20 zone), so it's about 11 new Northrend zones overall. Then you add in some of the "underwater" zones and it goes higher. It's more work than Northrend, but if you also consider that even major revamps are less work than completely new zones, it's about the same work as a new expansion. --- The timeline issue stands only if you assume the content and leveling path stays the same. Players will be offered "a greater narrative and sense of progression" according to MMO-C, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the leveling curve we're all be used to be will be cleaned up and heavily modified. However, I don't think the problem will be resolved entirely unless they phase all Azeroth. Players in Outland are still urged to go into SSC and TK even though those places and bosses are dead lore-wise. There will be always be anachronisms in WoW.
  15. [double-posted. Please delete.]