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About Charybdis

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  • Birthday 05/28/89

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  1. Warlords of Draenor paladin discussion

      I tend to prefer not giving specific numbers for specs since this is a general WoD thread, but I'll go through some of those.   Censure damage is just tuning it seems, and will be subject to change anyway.  We'll see how the official notes go along with in game analysis. I can see CS not generating HoPo for Holy, but it's definitely a datamining error if Prot isn't getting it. WoG is base cast 1.5 seconds until paladins choose a spec.  Prot and Ret will both get abilities that make it instant, but of course Holy won't because Blizzard wants to nerf our mobility. ES needed that burst up front to be a more worthwhile healing CD, so it's good to me.   Final Verdict is still holy damage, which means it will steal deal more damage than TV's physical due to ignoring armor.  But it certainly does suck that it got nerfed so hard. LH only healing a certain number has been in place since MoP 5.4 I believe.  I hate how they've done it that way when 20-man Mythics will surely require more AoE. SS buff might be interesting I suppose, but we'll have to see if it feels worthwhile to cast it as Ret. SoL change was supposedly due to Ret doing too much damage.  This next tuning pass will supposedly bring specs "close" to where they should be, but I'm wondering if they mean "close" like they mean "soon," which means they might think it's alright but the community will likely call bullshit.
  2. Warlords of Draenor paladin discussion

    I have updated the OP.
  3. For future reference within this thread since it has not been covered, as Don above found out, the melee attack speed buff is just that: Attack speed.  It is NOT haste, nor melee haste.  The easiest way to test that is to look at the cooldown of exorcism or judgment before and after having the attack speed buff given out.  They'll change if indeed the attack speed buff is (melee) haste.   Not only is it not being a haste buff the reason it hasn't been talked about with Thok's, that's also the reason it has never been a consideration during the entire expansion for prot or ret paladins getting to 50% haste to cap GCDs at 1 second.
  4. Warlords of Draenor paladin discussion

          Keep in mind that 250% is pure holy damage unaffected by armor whereas the 275% is physical damage and thus lowered by the target's armor.  That 250% will also be fully boosted by Inq, so it's more like 325%.   And now we see if quoting works better than it looks like it might...   Edit: Nope.  Have to add the quote tags.   But yes, a 30% of life shield on the tank isn't going to do much with the way tank damage has been going.  Having a second BoL target would be more throughput and more versatile.
  5. Updated as of 16 August 2014.   WoD is changing up stats as well as talents and very likely other abilities so a thread to consolidate our thoughts on all that would probably be quite useful until the beta comes up and we can do more specific work for each spec.   Gear changes are summarized:   No more expertise, hit, dodge, or parry.  All spells and ranged abilities will have the necessary hit chance to always hit a mob 3 or less levels higher than the character.  Melee DPS will always hit a mob from behind, and tanks will have the needed "expertise" through spec abilities to ignore an boss's parry.   Reforging is gone.   Extra secondary stats are multistrike and versatility.  The previous amplify and readiness stats were too complex to balance properly according to Blizzard and hence scrapped.   For armor pieces (helms, shoulders, etc) the item’s primary stat will change based on spec.  Wearing a plate item while specced as holy will give it intellect, while prot and ret will have strength on the armor instead.  Cloaks, necklaces, rings, trinkets, and weapons will not change any stats based on spec. Spirit and bonus armor will not appear on armor pieces but can appear on cloaks, rings, etc. as secondary stats.   The word on tier items so far is they’ll also switch primary stats as well as the tier bonus depending on spec, but won’t switch secondary stats.  This might be a problem since each spec will almost certainly value each stat differently so having the same stats between specs could be annoying given the number of combinations of secondary stats available now.   Vengeance is being renamed to "Resolve" and will boost defensive abilities directly instead of boosting AP.  Tanks will now do roughly 75% of a pure DPS spec's damage once tuning is done properly.  It currently isn't done right, if anyone is wondering.   Resolve:  Increases your healing and absorption done to yourself, based on Stamina and damage taken (before avoidance and mitigation) in the last 10 seconds.     New secondary stats:   Amplify is no longer a secondary stat, but might appear on specialized gear like trinkets if Blizzard wants it to again.   Multistrike was clarified by Celestalon to be: “X% Multistrike means: Each ability has two separate (X/2)% chances to hit each target an additional time for 30% damage.”  I haven’t seen further clarification on this such as whether it’s possible to have a double multistrike since there are two chances to proc.  Celestalon also said that multistrikes (and cleaves) are not dependent on the damage or healing of the ability that triggered them, so there won’t effectively be “double crits.”  However, multistrikes (and cleaves) can crit on their own.   Multistrike notes:  Blizzard changed it to simply be X% to get one or two hits, so it's capped at a more intuitive 100% instead of 200%.  The ability that lets Prot benefit defensively from multistrike is Shining Protector.  Some of our self heals benefit from MS as well, and those in turn can trigger Shining Protector last I heard.  Ours is the only multistrike tank defense ability that is dependent on others, so it's a double-edged sword in that a good team can perhaps boost us but at the same time a bad one can screw us, and it's harder to simulate the effects.   Readiness is no longer a secondary stat, but might appear on specialized gear like trinkets if Blizzard wants it to again.   Versatility simply boosts damage, healing, and absorbs by X% and reduces all (hopefully all anyway) damage taken by .X%.  Ret has a "new" ability called Sanctity Aura which boosts Versatility for all allies within 100 yards. DPS DKs, all Druids, and DPS Warriors also bring the buff as well as a few Hunter pet families.   Bonus Armor can be found on non-armor items like rings and cloaks, and will only work for Prot.  Besides boosting armor, it also boosts attack power by the same amount as armor (so 100 bonus armor = 100 attack power)   Crit is staying the same for Holy and Ret, but for Prot there's a "new" ability called Riposte that grants Parry rating equal to Crit rating from gear.     Atunements: Each spec gets a secondary stat attunement that boosts the stat gain by 5%.  For example, normally Holy would get 1% crit from 110 rating but thanks to the attunement they get 1.05% crit from the 110 rating points.   The attunements for paladins are: Holy: Crit Prot: Haste Ret: Mastery     At level 100, the ratings conversions for each secondary stat are as follows:   1% crit = 110 rating 1% haste = 80 rating 1 mastery point = 110 rating 1% multi = 132 rating (used to be 66, but Blizzard changed MS to be more intuitive) 1% vers = 130 rating 1% PVP power = 49 rating   Additionally, at level 100 1 point of stamina grants 60 base hit points.     Regarding talents: The level 100 talents have all been modified or even replaced since Blizzcon.  Here's an overview of the current ones:   Holy: Beacon of Faith: Gain a second Beacon of Light.  Previously wasn't a separate button on its own, but Blizzard changed it because having the Beacon leapfrog was "annoying as hell" as several players including myself have roughly put it.   Beacon of Insight: Place a beacon on a target and they will get a 30% boost to the next single target heal you cast on them.  When they reach full health or you complete the cast that is boosted by 30%, the beacon switches to the most wounded ally in 40 yards.   Saved by the Light: When you or your Beacon of Light target drop below 30% health, this talent generates an absorb shield equal to 30% of the target's health on them for the next 10 seconds.  You can't shield a person this way more than once per minute.     Prot: Empowered Seals:  Using Judgment while also using a certain Seal will give you different benefits.  Justice boosts speed by 20% for 20 seconds.  Insight heals you for 1% of your maximum health every 2 seconds for 20 seconds.  Righteousness increases haste by 10% for 20 seconds.  Truth increases attack power by 15% for 20 seconds.   Seraphim: Boost your Bonus Armor, Crit, Haste, Mastery, Multistrike, and Versatility by 1500 each for 15 seconds.  Costs 5 Holy Power to use and has a 30 second cooldown.   Holy Shield:  Increases block chance by 10%, allows you to block spells (likely only some spells), and when you block you deal 50% of your attack power as Holy damage to your attacker.     Ret: Empowered Seals:  Same talent as Prot's above.   Seraphim:  Same talent as Prot's above.   Final Verdict:  Replaces Templar's Verdict.  Consumes 3 Holy Power to deal 280% weapon damage as Holy damage.  Also increases the damage and radius of your next Divine Storm by 100%.
  6. Warlords of Draenor death knight discussion

    With the new stat additions, what do people think might happen to DKs?   Regarding haste maybe being useful to Blood, Scent of Blood could very well stay in place but maybe not work on avoids since that would lessen haste's value if we can GCD cap like right now.  Likewise, if they want it to remain useful to frost and unholy then they need to make sure we can't GCD cap there either.   Unless heals or absorbs can crit or we have some useful proc on crits (a la monk's Elusive Brew) to boost survivability or resource generation, crit's going to be useless as a survivability stat.  If there is something akin to Elusive Brew then it would likely boost parry instead of dodge.  Damage of course is another matter and I don't expect crit's value there to go anywhere, although Rime might be tweaked in order to boost or nerf crit.   Mastery will of course have a place for every spec, but it might get changed for all DKs.  Blood's could get redone because Vengeance is being reworked to boost defensive abilities and not Attack Power, so in order to benefit from that Blood Shield would likely need to be tweaked.  As far as frost and unholy go, the masteries are boring but still useful.  Them being boring could be enough of a reason to change them.   Celestalon clarified what multistrike was on twitter.  Unless it can generate extra resources for Blood like through SoB or it can boost healing or absorbs then it's going to be useless for tanking.  DPS will always get some use from it, but it'll be interesting to see if they allow diseases to work with it.   Amplify is the same boost as on Thok's Tail Tip, but in addition to what's there it'll boost multistrike damage like crit instead of just boosting a stat directly a la haste or mastery.  Alas, if blood can't benefit from extra damage, healing, or absorption with crit or multistrike then amp will only really affect haste, mastery, and readiness.   Readiness is the same CD reduction as the Evil Eye of Galakras and Vial of Living Corruption.  It's quite potent depending on the abilities it reduces the CD of, but the difference between the Eye and the Vial in terms of percents makes me curious if they'll be able to balance it between DPS and tanking as well as between specs and classes in general.  Will fights be balanced around having a certain CD reduction?  Will we start coming up with breakpoints based on the fight?  If it affects AMS, will the effect be enough to GCD cap us again?
  7. Based on the math done at Tankspot, one can see that every parry is another .24 of an auto-attack due to parry haste. Since both avoids and auto-attacks have a 100% chance to proc SoB assuming a 3.6 speed melee weapon because SoB is a PPM effect to combat people trying to DW tank with faster stuff, that means each point of parry is 1.24 times as good at generating SoB procs as a point in dodge, discounting the diminishing returns of course. I believe that means that to get the ideal ratio between parry and dodge for SoB purposes you'd need to modify the usual macro or equation that would normally just show the ideal ratio between parry and dodge for maximum avoidance. Exactly how that's done is something I've shot Theck a PM about and will edit in to this post once I receive a reply unless someone else beats me to the punch. Assuming the parry:dodge ratio is raised to account for more SoB procs, one might then want to compare the damage gained from more RP and auto-attacks with the higher parry versus the likely increased uptime of Riposte if one were to ignore SoB and simply focus on getting the most avoidance out of the least rating. That question isn't so easily answered with pure math and simulations, but my gut would say that going for more parry to get more SoB procs would probably be better if indeed there is a significant difference at all. On another note, something I've noticed while browsing through WoL logs is they will tend to show Scent of Blood procs in the Buffs section will be lower than one would expect based on the RP gained in the Power Gains section. As best I can tell this is due to SoB actually having two buffs: One which boosts the next Death Strike, and one which grants the RP. The one that buffs DS is shown in the Buffs section, which means that if you're sitting on 5 stacks and you get another SoB proc then it won't show up there since you're capped but the RP gains will still show up normally. Edit: So much for an easy way to figure out the best SoB setup. Theck mentioned that would require adding up the SoB procs from both auto-attacks and avoids and then taking the derivative of that sum to get the final ratio. Avoids aren't so hard since they're just based on the enemy's swing rate and your avoidance. Auto-attacks, however, are complicated by parry haste which is based on our parry and the boss's swing plus our own weapon's swing timer. At least boss parry haste is no longer a problem. However, the interaction between parry and more hits is strong enough (each parry is an extra .24 of a swing after all) that the minimal avoidance lost by not using the ideal parry:dodge ratio is probably not going to be noticed compared to the extra SoB and attacks gained from more dodge. In short, parry>dodge.
  8. Prot [5.4] - EF You

    Theck has already tossed EF and SS at SimC, and gotten results that generally sway more towards EF since using EF, even at the expense of SotR uptime, has shown to reduce TMI: EF & You? | Sacred Duty However, it'll still definitely depend on the fight. As Theck also notes, abilities and bosses that challenge one's instantaneous health (effectively your health pool plus any absorbs you have and such) will favor SS since your health and such at that exact moment are what counts.
  9. A heads-up for Blood DKs: Theck has recently started using SimCraft for prot pally sims, and as it turns out there's some overlap with Blood because a certain prot queue system requires knowing how much damage has been taken in the last 5 or 6 seconds, which has been one the biggest problems in getting Blood DKs sorted out in SC for obvious reasons. If you're interested in testing SC or can do some coding and such, Theck has said in this post's comments that's he's been going through the DK module and fixing some bugs and such, along with getting the "damage taken in last X seconds" metric worked out. It might also be worth looking at how his new TMI metric interacts with DKs and whether certain stats (like haste) offer a surprise in terms of smoothing out damage like it did for paladins. Though I admit (having played a DK with the DS-centric style) that the metric might not even be worth using for DKs due to how it's more skill-based on how DS is used in the first place versus how SotR for paladins is done.
  10. Paladin Simple Questions

    Cooldowns are usually best used such that you're not wasting them. Don't delay a CD if it means you'll get one less use of it during an encounter, unless the situation there would mean that you'd get a much bigger benefit. For example, if you could use AW twice, but couldn't line it up with a +200% damage phase both times, it is probably best to line that single use up because it will grant a bigger benefit damage-wise than using it twice but not with the buff. If you only get to use GoAK twice during a fight, and there are no notable encounter-specific times to save it, you're probably better off with your first situation of delaying it a minute. It will greatly depend on not only the encounter, but how your group does the encounter too.
  11. Hoping this will put the nail in the coffin for talking about haste > strength or other stat preferences. An "inflection point" has been noted as varying quite a bit between different gear setups, so you always have to sim your gear to see what is best. This is true of all gear setups and item levels. And upon changing things out it's necessary to do the sim again to see how the weights changed after shifting stats around. Eventually you'll have to decide on a setup that's "good enough" because changing anything can make one stat relatively better or worse than another since there's a lack of single rating granularity in actual gear. And just because a certain relational setup yields the most DPS at one gear level doesn't mean that it will be the same for all gear levels. There is no magic number. There might be a magic set of numbers or relationships between stats, but the math involved in finding that out is quite intense and beyond even most theorycrafters here. Hence why it hasn't been done, if it's even possible. And even if it is possible to find the best relationship of stats for a Patchwerk fight, no fight is like that anymore and thus the stat relationships will change. For the lay man who isn't able or willing to put in effort to learn the tools like SimCraft necessary to really get into the relationships between stats, you will be safe simply capping expertise and hit, then going Str > haste > crit=mastery just like the stats section says to. If you are able and willing to put in the effort to learn SimCraft and use it for your own character, then feel free to go nuts tweaking your character. Don't assume a certain gear set meets a certain criteria unless you have data to back it up. Yes, JC can be weak compared to BS because of the design decision Blizz made to double secondary stat gem gains compared to primaries. Whether you want to keep it or switch to something else is your choice to make based on whatever data you find. Trawling through blue posts can yield some very interesting results, and even asking GhostCrawler on his Twitter account can be worthwhile. In providing information for everyone, EJ posters cannot provide information for just the individual. It would be an overwhelming and impractical task.
  12. Seals are a bit of a sacred cow at this point, plus they still want some "intelligent play" from us, and knowing when to seal swap is supposedly one of those. I think they feel that if seals were taken off the GCD some of the "intelligent play" would be lost. One of the oddities about AW is that our kit includes an extra ability to use during that time in the form of HoW. Since it's an execute, they have to make it a DPS gain whenever it comes on, which means that our damage goes up even more during AW when that's factored in. In practice our DPS goes up by 25% or so I think during AW because of that. But that interaction is also a sacred cow and they won't be likely to change it anytime soon. Lowering AW to 10% is obviously a no, but 15% might work. I suspect there would still be an outcry because going down from a 2 to a 1 in the front is a pretty big deal for some.
  13. I'd probably call Ret a slow burst kind of spec. We usually can't do 500k in a few GCD's, but our average damage during our cooldowns is usually competitive with quick burst specs and can pressure opponents if played right.
  14. I foresee some difficulties with the new Justice: They'll have to balance it such that SoT is always better for sustained damage, yet make sure that SoJ can do enough burst to be worth it. And if it's worth it, chances are we'll be trying to game it during our CDs for even more burst. We'll also try looking at whether the Harsh Words or WoG glyphs might prove to give higher DPS depending on the situation. It will certainly shake things up, but whether it will be a good thing to do that remains to be seen. Hopefully it will become a bit of a curiosity for PvE in some cases and not one of our mainstays.
  15. As usual, they're saying they want to get the mechanics right before they do any real number tuning. They've got plenty of time to look at it and figure out what to do.