• Announcements

    • Forum Rules (Updated 3/22/14)   07/14/10

      Welcome to the Elitist Jerks forums, a WoW discussion forum targeted towards topics regarding high-end raiding and analysis of game mechanics. We ask you to take a few minutes to read the following before making use of these forums.   First, a point of clarification. The name of these forums is not intended ironically; we have high standards for the discussion that occurs herein, and we're quite unapologetic about it. If you feel our rules are stupid or arbitrary, we don't really care. If you don't wish to follow them, you're welcome to return to the official Blizzard forums.   Following is a brief listing of our forum rules; note that it is by no means exhaustive, as in our experience people are quite innovative in finding new ways to be stupid. These are simply a set of guidelines to get you started in the right direction. If you follow them, you will generally do fine here; however, if you concoct some creative new form of stupidity, our moderators feel no need to restrain themselves in letting you know. All posters are to make an effort to communicate clearly. In particular, all posts should be made in a reasonable approximation of proper English. We realize that a significant number of you are not native speakers, and we do not expect perfection: merely effort. Please obey basic rules of capitalization and punctuation, avoid chatroom abbreviations ("lol", "imo", "u", and the like), and pay at least minimal attention to sentence and paragraph structure. This includes not starting a new paragraph for each sentence. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible. Do not make multiple consecutive posts; rather, multi-quote and include all your ideas in a single post. Do not quote huge blocks of text to add a short reply; instead, quote only what you need to to make your point. Do not break a single quoted reply into multiple blocks; doing so needlessly lengthens your post without aiding its readability. And don't provide unnecessary backstory: if it isn't relevant to the question you're asking or the point you're making, we don't need to know about it. All discussion should be both polite and civil. Trolling or flaming in any form is forbidden. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are stupid or on drugs and their personal hygiene isn't really relevant to the discussion. Regardless of the merit (or lack thereof) of your argument, it should be made in a way that is neither insulting nor condescending. Whining in any form is forbidden. Blizzard is not incompetent or stupid and they are not intentionally screwing you over and neither is anyone else. If all you're going to do is complain, don't bother posting. Threads should be started if and only if there is some reasonable topic to discuss. If the issue you wish to discuss is covered in an existing thread, use it rather than creating a new one. If you are asking a simple question that you expect to have a simple answer, ask it in one of the "Simple Questions/Simple Answers" threads. But if you feel there is a topic of discussion not well-covered by existing threads, feel free to start a new thread to discuss it. Some sub-forums restrict new members from creating new topics unless they've made at least 10 approved posts, to prevent spamming or bad posts. If you really think it deserves a new thread before you have 10 posts, contact a moderator with your post content. Do not post unless you have something new and worthwhile to say. Do not bump, quote for truth, cross-post, or post only to say thanks. We don't want to hear your funny story about something that happened in your raid last night, your baseless speculation is unproductive, and your idea for a new ability really isn't that interesting. We don't care what gear you are hoping to get or just received. If you have an idea you'd like to share with the community, support it with analysis, testing, or both that indicates you've put some thought into it. (Note: Posting of a new untested spec falls under this rule, unless you have done the grunt work and have information to support your amazing new spec don't even bother posting it here.) Do not beg for hand-holding. These are forums for discussion and analysis, not for answering any question that you might happen to dream up. Search and read before posting--do not post a question unless you are fairly confident that the answer isn't widely known or easily attainable. In particular, we do not want to take a look at your armory or WWS to tell you what you're doing wrong and we're not interested in making your tough gear or spec decisions for you. We expect you to use the search function and also to read the first post as well as the last 5 pages of the thread you are posting in. Chances are your question has already been answered. Additionally, do not post asking for confirmation of a simulation result. If you think there is a problem with the Sim you are welcome to PM the author. All accounts must have a valid WoW profile. If you no longer play and have deleted all characters you used to have, you may select the "No WoW Account" option; otherwise, this information must be filled out for your main character. If you fail to observe this rule you'll be permanently banned from our forums. We do not permit anonymous posting. Do not sign your posts. People can see who you are from the profile printed to the left of each post, so signing your posts is redundant and simply takes up space. Similarly, you do not need to link your armory in your post, as if people wish to see it they can get it from your profile. Do not respond to terrible posts. Do not respond to a blatantly awful post (a post that is in clear violation of the rules) either in an attempt to moderate them or to answer a question they posed. Your post will just be warned/infracted and removed with the post you are replying to. If you feel that a post is in violation of these rules, please report it and the moderators will deal with it as we feel is appropriate. No Advertising. Do not make posts solely for the purpose of advertising your site/blog/twitch/etc. You may post such things if it's relevant and adds to discussion at hand. If you have information to share, share it here with a link back to your blog or whatever. Do not post "I have information, come to my site to get it". That will result in an immediate infraction and post removal. Also, we will remove any link to a site that violates a games TOS/EULA such as gold selling sites.

      If you violate a forum rule, you will receive an infraction. Most infractions are worth one point, although we reserve the right to give you more at any time if we feel you deserve them. If you accumulate too many infraction points, you will receive an automatic (usually temporary) ban which revokes your posting privileges, as follows: 3 Points - 1 Day 5 Points - 3 Days 8 Points - 1 Week 10 Points - 1 Month 15 Points - Permanent

      Familiarize yourself with The Banhammer, an archive of all infractions given by the moderators here; it will give you some examples of what not to do. Also feel free to take a gander over The Dung Heap, which will give you a good idea of what these forums would look like if we weren't such jerks.   Thank you for joining the discussion!
    • Site Maintenance (Updated 11-12-15)   10/01/15

      Site has been updated to IPS as of 12 November Known Issues So Far: Old wowhead "item" tags are depricated. They may be re-added to fix some issues with older guides, but for most part it's better to just use the modern wowhead.js which auto parses actual wowhead links automatically into tooltips/names. Just post wowhead links in guides and the js will do the rest. You don't need a special BB code for items. Old article links will be broken do to IPS 4 changing url path to remove some pointless "/_/" directory. The articles are still there and can be found in guides menu. You just may not be able to click links from any threads linking to them without editing out the "/_/" part of url. I'll fix most of this little by little when more important stuff is taken care of. External links/google search results may run into same problem. That will just rely on waiting for google to reindex new paths. After you login, you may be thrown to an error page saying page cannot be found if you logged in from the forum index. Harmless though. Just click "forums" and you'll get forum index since redirect after login is busted. The benefactors bar seems to hang/timeout sometimes.


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Taser

  • Rank
    Von Kaiser
  • Birthday 04/30/78

WoW Profile

  • Character Name Yummyumm
  • Guild Therapy
  1. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

      Pisshands already posted where you are doing it wrong. Nevertheless I underlined the wrong part in above quote.   Honestly...if you really want to do some calculations or even start serious theorycrafting, you should start with the basics. Search for combat tables and how whitehits, yellowhits and block (+critical blocks) are being handled. Additionally I would propose that you visit totemspot.com and have a look at some of Binkenstein's blogposts. It is a shaman community, but Bink really shares a lot of his theorycrafting knowledge which is applicable to all classes.   I am really glad for everyone who wants to start theorycrafting. But it is not just about some calculations. You really have to have a decent knowledge of game mechanics and how things need to be set up.   And you should keep one thing in your mind: When posting calculations and/or conclusions in a public forum, players reading those posts will blindly follow these posts when gearing/reforging their chars, because all that shiny math cannot be wrong.
  2. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

      Well...you are wrong. You already got several different explanations on how Way of the Monk and EB work. One last attempt.   All weapons are balanced. No matter if 1h, Polearm, Staff or whatever. And Way of the Monk is the reason why everything is balanced.   You can leave the critchance completely out of the equation. Just have a look at weaponspeed and stacks generated: 1h = 2.6 speed for 1.5 stacks...times 2 as you have 2x1h = 3 stacks on 2.6 speed Staff = 3.3 speed / 1.4 = 2.36 speed for 2.75 stacks (2h not always get 3 stacks. You have to calculate 3 / 3.6 x baseweaponspeed) Polearm = 3.6 speed / 1.4 = 2.57 speed for 3 stacks   3 / 2.6 = 1.154 2.75 / 2.36 = 1.165 3 / 2.57 = 1.167   1h's increased chance to miss only becomes a factor when reaching the critcap (60% raidbuffed on character sheet). Even at this point you get enough stacks of EB that it does not even matter.   EDIT: Mixed up weaponspeed of staff and polearm. But that doesn't change the math at all. Thanks @ Pisshands and Nevernite for the discrete hints.
  3. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    Currently I am trying to set up some math for WoD. But there is one thing that I am currently stuck. And I thought, that someone might be able to help me out.   Situation: New stat multistrike comes in Monk's Tiger Strikes will be changed to •Tiger Strikes is now available to all Monk specializations, and has a chance to trigger on successful auto attacks and their Multistrikes. It has an 8% chance to trigger while using a two-handed weapon, and a 5% chance to trigger while dual wielding. •When triggered, Tiger Strikes now grants a 25% increase to Multistrike for 8 seconds instead of a 50% increase to attack speed and double attacks for 4 attacks. Apart from the damage provided, Gift of the Ox (small healing orbs) are being spawned only by Multistrikes in WoD   As Tiger Strikes will trigger on whitehits and white multistrikes it will scale with and off itself. I started with the following formula:   Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 1 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%) * 0.08 * ( 8 * 0.25)   As the numbers are always the same we can simplify it:   Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%)   But I have to include the scaling. If I add one more instance I get to   Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes = 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike% + 0.16 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%))   There must be a possibility to simplify the formula, maybe based on some interest on interest calcs. Either math classes are too long ago or I am just plain stupid.
  4. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

      OK...to get one thing clarified once and for all: Haste does NOT widen the gap between 1h and 2h. It will always (not always as above 1h critcap 2h will outperform 1h) remain at 1%.   Example 2x1h at 2.6 speed vs. 2h at 3.6 speed Basis = 50% crit, exp-capped + hit-capped   At 0 hasterating 1h: 0.5 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1) = 0.634615 EB stacks per second 2h 0.5 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1) = 0.641667 EB stacks per second   0.641667 / 0.634615 = 1.01111 -> 1.111% more stacks for 2h   At 10k hasterating 1h: 0.5 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 0.783937 EB stacks per second 2h 0.5 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 0.792647 EB stacks per second   0.792647 / 0.783937 = 1.01111 -> 1.111% more stacks for 2h   Now we are going above critcap to...70%   At 0 hasterating 1h: 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1) = 0.723462 EB stacks per second 2h 0.70 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1) = 0.898333 EB stacks per second   0.898333 / 0.723462 = 1.241714 -> 24.1714% more stacks for 2h   At 10k hasterating 1h: 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 0.893688 EB stacks per second 2h 0.7 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 1.109706 EB stacks per second   1.109706 / 0.893688 = 1.241715 -> 24.1715% more stacks for 2h   As you can see the only thing that changes the difference between 1h and 2h is if you are going over the critcap. Haste just scales linearly.
  5. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Theoretically those breakpoints can be calculated mathematically, just as haste-breakpoints for DoTs. But unlike those the EB-breakpoints are not fixed values. Every time you get a new item with different AGI and/or critrating and /or hasterating the breakpoint will change.   For example:   25k AGI 18k crit 6k haste   0.7593 stacks/second = 22.78% EB-dodge in average   +1000 AGI   0.7709 stacks/second = 23.13% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.03% dodge in total   +1000 critrating   0.7837 stacks/second = 23.51% EB-dodge in average = +0.73% dodge   +1000 hasterating   0.7750 stacks/second = 23.25% EB-dodge in average = +0.47% dodge   +1000 dodgerating   0.74% dodge flat     And at   25k AGI 18k crit 12k haste?     0.8533 stacks/second = 25.6% EB-dodge in average   +1000 AGI   0.8663 stacks/second = 25.99% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.07% dodge in total   +1000 critrating   0.8807 stacks/second = 26.42% EB-dodge in average = +0.82% dodge   +1000 hasterating   0.8689 stacks/second = 26.07% EB-dodge in average = +0.47% dodge   +1000 dodgerating   0.74% dodge flat   And at   25k AGI 24k crit 6k haste?     0.9058 stacks/second = 27.17% EB-dodge in average   +1000 AGI   0.9174 stacks/second = 27.52% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.03% dodge in total   +1000 critrating   0.9302 stacks/second = 27.91% EB-dodge in average = +0.74% dodge   +1000 hasterating   0.9245 stacks/second = 27.73% EB-dodge in average = +0.56% dodge   +1000 dodgerating   0.74% dodge flat   There you can see that AGI, crit and haste scale with each other in regards to EB-generation.
  6. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    @Pisshands From Nevernite's screenshot it seems that you forgot to include a critcap into your calculator. His selected weapon type is 1h therefore it should not be possible to gain dodge (through EB) at about 70% critchance.   Btw. some of your calcs in the spreadsheet seem to be really off. Honestly never took a closer look as I always have my own spreadsheets. But hopefully I will have the time to go more into your spreadsheet later.   For the time being some first observations: Dodge% calc in C15 =(3,12+ ((C4 / 1394,3) +( C6 / 900))) / 100 should be (to account for DR and...where did you get those numbers from?) =3.12 + baseagi/951.158596 + 1 / (1 / 501.3 + 1.422 / ((dodgerating/885) + ((AGI-baseAGI)/951.158596))) Don't know if you want to include baseAGI (111 for Monk).   In C20 you cannot simply divide the hasted swingspeed by 1.01 to add 1% haste. That would mean that haste would be calculated multiplicative with itself, but it is additive. You should recalculate the whole swingspeed in that step.
  7. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    Right now, best thing you can do is just reading Alpha patchnotes, dev-blogs and twitter. Personally I have theorycrafting (all my spreadsheets and such) completely on hold until Beta starts and we are getting more info. Even the datamined tooltips that are available on wowhead and mmo-c are not worth calculating anything with. Keep calm, enjoy the show and pick up the real discussion when beta invites are being send out. It will get very interesting...that's for sure.
  8. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    For WW ChiEX would just be the Chi-dump if everything else was on cooldown. Prioritising RSK + FoF, TP mostly with CB and dumping as much Chi in ChiEX as possible. Even possible that WW will want to use ChiEX exactly at 3 Chi as you get X dmg/Chi + an additional TEB-stack. But that needs to be calculated.    BM, on the other hand, need to manage their Chi for suvival. We have 1 Chi-builder with 2 and the rest with 1 Chi. Think of having 1 Chi and KS coming off CD. That would be 3 Chi. Either we spent that 1 Chi for a potentially worthless PB or 3 Chi on ChiEX including a potentially worthless PB. Using ChiEX in a singletarget encounter could result in a lot of wasted chi that way and maybe being chi starved when you need to guard.   ChiEX as a talent needs to be stronger than BoK. There must be something more to be appealing to the players. And this little extra needs to be quite equal to 30% magic stagger and 10sec free chi. As it is clearly not utility it can only be DPS. Maybe BoK-dmg per 1 Chi or something. In its current state there is not a single encounter in Pandaria where I would choose ChiEX over the other talents. Chi Serenity can also be really great AOE as you could BoF, BoK, BoK, BoK, BoF, BoK, BoK, BoK, BoF as well. Maybe including a KS somewhere. After that you still have about 20-30sec of shuffle.
  9. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

      The problem with these spells is/was that 90% of the players do not seem to use them. IMHO that is because they have no idea how good they actually are.   Surging Mist being the replacement for Healing Spheres is a little bit more concerning. BM have EH as emergency heal. But I loved playing with the Spheres in certain encounters. Having to hardcast a 1.5 sec heal is not really a good thing as a tank. But we will see how it will turn out in practice. Maybe starting the cast before the big nuke hits. At least the scaling should be better.   It seems they got the initial scaling issues of Chi Explosion under control. But I am still very interested in the actual numbers. For BM it still will be of low interest as it replaces BOK as Shuffle builder while not allowing chi pooling for PB or Guard. Especially with the 2 charges managing resources to optimally use Guard will be very important at the start of the xpac. Chi Explosion can be quite powerful, but it will not be easy to use properly.
  10. Thread of Ultimate Stupidity

    Should have been more like this •Brewmasters Daught now deal 10% less damage with all attacks. But no need to panic. BM-DPS was still more than competitive in 5.4. A 10% nerf is a dumb solution that does not address the root cause, but that is what we get.
  11. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    I recall that at some point during Beta there was a discussion to conpletely remove weapondamage from BM-abilities and having only AP scaling. That obviously did not go live but it seems that they tried some mix of both design concepts.
  12. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Just saw the latest patchnotes. The formulas I posted were tested and verified on live and ptr. But it has to be tested if this has just been changed to be equal to all other classes. Damn...
  13. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    That would indeed be a solution. I also prefer DW but I have a little bit left until critcapping. One thing that I like about DW is that EB generation is a lot smoother. But at about 60% crit even 2h becomes quite smooth too. Critcap for 2h should be at 76% + 3% crit-suppression = 79% charscreen Procs would push you over the cap. But I think that we are all aware.
  14. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Had an interesting discussion in the german forums. In the course of the discussions I did some calcs and wanted to share them here: The question is: What shall we do at the critcap? Critcap for whitehits is for DW with Hitcap and Exp-Hardcap at 100 - 24 (glancing) - 19 (DW-penalty) = 57% (with 3% crit-suppression 60% in the Charscreen) To raise the critcap we have to lower the 19% miss. To achieve this we need additional hitrating. Let’s assume we are raidbuffed at 60% crit = 57% after crit-suppression. Hitcap + Exp-Hardcap and 10% haste. Now let’s say we have 1000 points that we can distribute freely. 1000 hitrating = 1000 / 340 = 2.94% 1000 hasterating = 1000 / 425 = 2.35% 1000 critrating = 1000 / 600 = 1.67% If we used these 1000 points to raise crit and hit evenly we would need to have 362 hit and 638 crit to raise both by 1.06%. That means we can compare 2.35% haste with 1.06% crit. EB-generation 2x 1h with 2.6 speed = 2.6 / 1.1 / 1.1 = 2.149 raidbuffed Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.149 x 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 = 47.74 With 1.06% additional crit + hit: Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.149 x 0.5806 x 1.5 x 2 = 48.63 With 2.35% additional haste: 2.6 / 1.1235 / 1.1 = 2.104 Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.104 x 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 = 48.76 That means that haste generates more EB stacks than a combination of hit and crit. What about GotO-Orbs? 0.052 x weaponspeed for 1h (no official confirmation from Blizz, just what I found) 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.81 = 45.23 whitehits/minute 45.23 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.115 GotO-Orbs per minute With 1.06% additional Hit: 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.8206 = 45.82 whitehits/minute 45.82 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.195 GotO-Orbs per minute Now with 2.94% additional hit: 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.8394 = 46.87 whitehits/minute 46.87 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.337 GotO-Orbs per minute And with 2.35% additional haste 60 / 2.104 * 2 = 57.03 swings/minute 57.03 * 0.81 = 46.19 whitehits/minute 46.19 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.245 GotO-Orbs per minute Somebody could say that more hasterating would also mean more energy and therefore more Jabs and BoKs. But that is irrelevant for our comparison as we assume that all free GCDs were already filled with TPs. I did not try to compare the damage component. But at this stage we can say that hasterating is better for EB-generation and GotO-orbs than a combination of hit and crit. Pure hit-stacking outperforms hasterating in regards to GotO but does nothing for EB. Any major bullshit might result from me translating everything from german to english.
  15. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Here comes the surprise. From what has been datamined having vengeance up alters the formulas of our abilities. Tiger Palm without vengeance for DW: (3 * (1 * (1 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Min DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Min DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 14) - 1))) to (3 * (1 * (1 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Max DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Max DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 14) + 1))) Tiger Palm with vengeance for DW: (3 * (1 * (0.4 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Min DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Min DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 11) - 1))) to (3 * (1 * (0.4 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Max DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Max DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 11) + 1))) This issue came up while having some inconsistencies between damage in simulationcraft and reality. And it seems to be that way for all our physical attacks. Comparing both formulas you can see that there is a breakpoint at 154k AP (incl. vengeance) from which the second formula scales better.