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  1. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Pisshands already posted where you are doing it wrong. Nevertheless I underlined the wrong part in above quote. Honestly...if you really want to do some calculations or even start serious theorycrafting, you should start with the basics. Search for combat tables and how whitehits, yellowhits and block (+critical blocks) are being handled. Additionally I would propose that you visit totemspot.com and have a look at some of Binkenstein's blogposts. It is a shaman community, but Bink really shares a lot of his theorycrafting knowledge which is applicable to all classes. I am really glad for everyone who wants to start theorycrafting. But it is not just about some calculations. You really have to have a decent knowledge of game mechanics and how things need to be set up. And you should keep one thing in your mind: When posting calculations and/or conclusions in a public forum, players reading those posts will blindly follow these posts when gearing/reforging their chars, because all that shiny math cannot be wrong.
  2. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Well...you are wrong. You already got several different explanations on how Way of the Monk and EB work. One last attempt. All weapons are balanced. No matter if 1h, Polearm, Staff or whatever. And Way of the Monk is the reason why everything is balanced. You can leave the critchance completely out of the equation. Just have a look at weaponspeed and stacks generated: 1h = 2.6 speed for 1.5 stacks...times 2 as you have 2x1h = 3 stacks on 2.6 speed Staff= 3.3 speed / 1.4 = 2.36 speedfor 2.75 stacks (2h not always get 3 stacks. You have to calculate 3 / 3.6 x baseweaponspeed) Polearm= 3.6 speed / 1.4 = 2.57 speed for 3 stacks 3 / 2.6 = 1.154 2.75 / 2.36 = 1.165 3 / 2.57 = 1.167 1h's increased chance to miss only becomes a factor when reaching the critcap (60% raidbuffed on character sheet). Even at this point you get enough stacks of EB that it does not even matter. EDIT: Mixed up weaponspeed of staff and polearm. But that doesn't change the math at all. Thanks @ Pisshands and Nevernite for the discrete hints.
  3. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    Currently I am trying toset upsome math for WoD. But there is one thing that I am currently stuck. And I thought, that someone might be able to help me out. Situation: New stat multistrike comes in Monk's Tiger Strikes will be changed to •Tiger Strikes is now available to all Monk specializations, and has a chance to trigger on successful auto attacks and their Multistrikes. It has an 8% chance to trigger while using a two-handed weapon, and a 5% chance to trigger while dual wielding. •When triggered, Tiger Strikes now grants a 25% increase to Multistrike for 8 seconds instead of a 50% increase to attack speed and double attacks for 4 attacks. Apart from the damage provided, Gift of the Ox (small healing orbs) are being spawned only by Multistrikes in WoD As Tiger Strikes will trigger on whitehits and white multistrikes it will scale with and off itself. I started with the following formula: Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes =1 / Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%) * 0.08 * ( 8 * 0.25) As the numbers are always the same we can simplify it: Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes =0.16 /Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%) But I have to include the scaling. If I add one more instance I get to Normalized additional MultiStrike% from Tiger Strikes =0.16 /Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike% + 0.16 /Swingtimer * ( 1 + BaseMultiStrike%)) There must be a possibility to simplify the formula, maybe based on some interest on interest calcs. Either math classes are too long ago or I am just plain stupid.
  4. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    OK...to get one thing clarified once and for all: Haste does NOT widen the gap between 1h and 2h. It will always (not always as above 1h critcap 2h will outperform 1h) remain at 1%. Example 2x1hat 2.6 speedvs. 2h at 3.6 speed Basis = 50% crit, exp-capped + hit-capped At 0 hasterating 1h: 0.5 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1) = 0.634615 EB stacks per second 2h 0.5 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1) = 0.641667 EB stacks per second 0.641667 / 0.634615 = 1.01111 -> 1.111% more stacks for 2h At 10k hasterating 1h: 0.5 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 0.783937 EB stacks per second 2h 0.5 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1/ (1+10000/42500)) = 0.792647 EB stacks per second 0.792647 / 0.783937 = 1.01111 -> 1.111% more stacks for 2h Now we are going above critcap to...70% At 0 hasterating 1h: 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1) = 0.723462 EB stacks per second 2h 0.70 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1) = 0.898333 EB stacks per second 0.898333 / 0.723462 = 1.241714 -> 24.1714% more stacks for 2h At 10k hasterating 1h: 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 / (2.6 / 1.1 / (1+10000/42500)) = 0.893688 EB stacks per second 2h 0.7 x 3.0 x 1 / (3.6 / 1.4 / 1.1/ (1+10000/42500)) = 1.109706 EB stacks per second 1.109706/ 0.893688 = 1.241715 ->24.1715% more stacks for 2h As you can see the only thing that changes the difference between 1h and 2h is if you are going over the critcap. Haste just scales linearly.
  5. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Theoretically those breakpoints can be calculated mathematically, just as haste-breakpoints for DoTs. But unlike those the EB-breakpoints are not fixed values. Every time you get a new item with different AGI and/or critrating and /or hasterating the breakpoint will change. For example: 25k AGI 18k crit 6k haste 0.7593 stacks/second = 22.78% EB-dodge in average +1000 AGI 0.7709 stacks/second = 23.13% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.03% dodge in total +1000 critrating 0.7837 stacks/second = 23.51% EB-dodge in average = +0.73% dodge +1000 hasterating 0.7750 stacks/second = 23.25% EB-dodge in average = +0.47% dodge +1000 dodgerating 0.74% dodge flat And at 25k AGI 18k crit 12k haste? 0.8533 stacks/second = 25.6% EB-dodge in average +1000 AGI 0.8663 stacks/second = 25.99% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.07% dodge in total +1000 critrating 0.8807 stacks/second = 26.42% EB-dodge in average = +0.82% dodge +1000 hasterating 0.8689 stacks/second = 26.07% EB-dodge in average = +0.47% dodge +1000 dodgerating 0.74% dodge flat And at 25k AGI 24k crit 6k haste? 0.9058 stacks/second = 27.17% EB-dodge in average +1000 AGI 0.9174 stacks/second = 27.52% EB-dodge in average (+0.68% dodge from 1000 AGI) = +1.03% dodge in total +1000 critrating 0.9302 stacks/second = 27.91% EB-dodge in average = +0.74% dodge +1000 hasterating 0.9245 stacks/second = 27.73% EB-dodge in average = +0.56% dodge +1000 dodgerating 0.74% dodge flat There you can see that AGI, crit and haste scale with each other in regards to EB-generation.
  6. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    @Pisshands From Nevernite's screenshot it seems that you forgot to include a critcap into your calculator. His selected weapon type is 1h therefore it should not be possible to gain dodge (through EB) at about 70% critchance. Btw. some of your calcs in the spreadsheet seem to be really off. Honestly never took a closer look as I always have my own spreadsheets. But hopefully I will have the time to go more into your spreadsheet later. For the time being some first observations: Dodge% calc in C15 =(3,12+ ((C4 / 1394,3) +( C6 / 900))) / 100 should be (to account for DR and...where did you get those numbers from?) =3.12 + baseagi/951.158596 + 1 / (1 / 501.3 + 1.422 / ((dodgerating/885) + ((AGI-baseAGI)/951.158596))) Don't know if you want to include baseAGI (111 for Monk). In C20 you cannot simply divide the hasted swingspeed by 1.01 to add 1% haste. That would mean that haste would be calculated multiplicative with itself, but it is additive. You should recalculate the whole swingspeed in that step.
  7. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    Right now, best thing you can do is justreading Alpha patchnotes, dev-blogs and twitter. Personally I have theorycrafting (all my spreadsheets and such) completely on hold until Beta starts and we are getting more info. Even the datamined tooltips that are availableon wowhead and mmo-c are not worth calculating anything with. Keep calm, enjoy the show and pick up the real discussion when beta invites are being send out. It will get very interesting...that's for sure.
  8. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    For WW ChiEX would just be the Chi-dump if everything else was on cooldown. Prioritising RSK + FoF, TP mostly with CB and dumping as much Chi in ChiEX as possible. Even possible that WW will want touse ChiEXexactly at 3 Chi as you get X dmg/Chi + an additional TEB-stack. But that needs to be calculated. BM, on the other hand, need to manage their Chi for suvival. We have 1 Chi-builder with 2 and the rest with 1 Chi. Think of having 1 Chi and KS coming off CD. That would be 3 Chi. Either we spent that 1 Chi for a potentially worthless PB or 3 Chi on ChiEX including a potentially worthless PB. Using ChiEX in a singletarget encounter could result in a lot of wasted chi that way and maybe being chi starved when you need to guard. ChiEX as a talent needs to be stronger than BoK. There must be something more to be appealing to the players. And this little extra needs to be quite equal to 30% magic stagger and 10sec free chi. As it is clearly not utility it can only be DPS. Maybe BoK-dmg per 1 Chi or something. In its current state there is not a single encounter in Pandaria where I would choose ChiEX over the other talents. Chi Serenity can also be really great AOE as you could BoF, BoK, BoK, BoK, BoF, BoK, BoK, BoK, BoF as well. Maybe including a KS somewhere. After that you still have about 20-30sec of shuffle.
  9. Warlords of Draenor monk discussion

    The problem with these spells is/was that 90% of the players do notseem touse them. IMHO that is because they have no idea how good they actually are. Surging Mist being the replacement for Healing Spheres is a little bit more concerning. BM have EH as emergency heal. But I loved playing with the Spheres in certain encounters. Having to hardcast a 1.5 sec heal is not really a good thing as a tank. But we will see how it will turn out in practice. Maybe starting the cast before the big nuke hits. At least the scalingshould bebetter. It seemsthey got the initial scaling issues of Chi Explosion under control. But I am still very interested in the actual numbers. For BM it still will be of low interest as it replaces BOK as Shuffle builder while not allowing chi pooling for PB or Guard. Especially with the 2 charges managing resources to optimally use Guard will be very important at the start of the xpac. Chi Explosion can be quite powerful, but it will not be easy to use properly.
  10. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    I recall that at some point during Beta there was a discussion to conpletely remove weapondamage from BM-abilities and having only AP scaling. That obviously did not go live but it seems that they tried some mix of both design concepts.
  11. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Just saw the latest patchnotes. The formulas I posted were tested and verified on live and ptr. But it has to be tested if this has just been changed to be equal to all other classes. Damn...
  12. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    That would indeed be a solution. I also prefer DW but I have a little bit left until critcapping. One thing that I like about DW is that EB generation is a lot smoother. But at about 60% crit even 2h becomes quite smooth too. Critcap for 2h should be at 76% + 3% crit-suppression = 79% charscreen Procs would push you over the cap. But I think that we are all aware.
  13. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Had an interesting discussion in the german forums. In the course of the discussions I did some calcs and wanted to share them here: The question is: What shall we do at the critcap? Critcap for whitehits is for DW with Hitcap and Exp-Hardcap at 100 - 24 (glancing) - 19 (DW-penalty) = 57% (with 3% crit-suppression 60% in the Charscreen) To raise the critcap we have to lower the 19% miss. To achieve this we need additional hitrating. Let’s assume we are raidbuffed at 60% crit = 57% after crit-suppression. Hitcap + Exp-Hardcap and 10% haste. Now let’s say we have 1000 points that we can distribute freely. 1000 hitrating = 1000 / 340 = 2.94% 1000 hasterating = 1000 / 425 = 2.35% 1000 critrating = 1000 / 600 = 1.67% If we used these 1000 points to raise crit and hit evenly we would need to have 362 hit and 638 crit to raise both by 1.06%. That means we can compare 2.35% haste with 1.06% crit. EB-generation 2x 1h with 2.6 speed = 2.6 / 1.1 / 1.1 = 2.149 raidbuffed Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.149 x 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 = 47.74 With 1.06% additional crit + hit: Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.149 x 0.5806 x 1.5 x 2 = 48.63 With 2.35% additional haste: 2.6 / 1.1235 / 1.1 = 2.104 Stacks per minute = 60 / 2.104 x 0.57 x 1.5 x 2 = 48.76 That means that haste generates more EB stacks than a combination of hit and crit. What about GotO-Orbs? 0.052 x weaponspeed for 1h (no official confirmation from Blizz, just what I found) 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.81 = 45.23 whitehits/minute 45.23 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.115 GotO-Orbs per minute With 1.06% additional Hit: 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.8206 = 45.82 whitehits/minute 45.82 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.195 GotO-Orbs per minute Now with 2.94% additional hit: 60 / 2.149 * 2 = 55.84 swings/minute 55.84 * 0.8394 = 46.87 whitehits/minute 46.87 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.337 GotO-Orbs per minute And with 2.35% additional haste 60 / 2.104 * 2 = 57.03 swings/minute 57.03 * 0.81 = 46.19 whitehits/minute 46.19 * (0.052 * 2.6) = 6.245 GotO-Orbs per minute Somebody could say that more hasterating would also mean more energy and therefore more Jabs and BoKs. But that is irrelevant for our comparison as we assume that all free GCDs were already filled with TPs. I did not try to compare the damage component. But at this stage we can say that hasterating is better for EB-generation and GotO-orbs than a combination of hit and crit. Pure hit-stacking outperforms hasterating in regards to GotO but does nothing for EB. Any major bullshit might result from me translating everything from german to english.
  14. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Personally I have a problem with looking at ZS as being a max health increase as it only works on hits that won't kill us. If you are at 50% HP and reveice a hit for 51% you are dead. It's something else if these 51% were split in 2 attacks each dealing 25.5%. The first would trigger ZS enabling you to survive the second hit. In such case I would rather switch to mastery then relying on some seconds of RNG-based damage reduction. Here comes the surprise. From what has been datamined having vengeance up alters the formulas of our abilities. Tiger Palm without vengeance for DW: (3 * (1 * (1 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Min DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Min DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 14) - 1))) to (3 * (1 * (1 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Max DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Max DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 14) + 1))) Tiger Palm with vengeance for DW: (3 * (1 * (0.4 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Min DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Min DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 11) - 1))) to (3 * (1 * (0.4 * 0.898882 * (Mainhand Max DPS + 1 * (Mainhand Max DPS /2)) + (Attack power / 11) + 1))) This issue came up while having some inconsistencies between damage in simulationcraft and reality. And it seems to be that way for all our physical attacks. Comparing both formulas you can see that there is a breakpoint at 154k AP (incl. vengeance) from which the second formula scales better.
  15. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    There are a lot of problems that occur while calculating such things. What determines the value of chi? For us it is the damage reduction we can achieve. There are 3 different ways to spend chi and reduce damage intake doing so: BoK, PB and Guard. Guard has 30sec CD and BoK is capped at 100% uptime of shuffle. Back in the beta Strawberry wrote some simulation that compared the value of chi spent for BoK in comparison to PB. But that is nowadays completely outdated as we are able to easily have 100% shuffle uptime. Back to the topic. Problem: EB stacks reduce the physical damage we take and therefore also the total staggered damage over the course of a fight. Avoided Bossswings let stagger tick, reducing the total amount without changing the tick. The more avoid we have the more difficult is gets to stack high amounts of stagger. If you set a certain minimum stagger to use PB (500k as in Pisshand's example) avoidance-strings will result in a lower stagger ticking all the time at...let's say 20-40k per second and the monk sitting on the chi. This will end having the monk spend the chi on BoK which does nothing to damage reduction as we are already at 100% shuffle-uptime. The benefit of Chi Brew never was the chi-per-minute-ratio...it was the chi-on-demand thing. And there are not many such situations for Brewmasters. Therefore the whole comparison, as interesting it is in theory, is made obsolete by reality in a raid situation.