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About Carrot

  • Rank
    Glass Joe

WoW Profile

  • Character Name Carrot
  • Gender Female
  • Race Human
  • Class Monk
  • Realm Uldum
  • Realm Location United States
  • Guild The Stand
  1. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    I get it. (and no they aren't equal) 2h's are better than 1h's for EB generation. End of story. I dont know why, I was just saying that it plays a factor cause it does, and whatever, were not thinking of things the same way. Let's move away from way of the monk, because I'm going to stop bringing it up, I get what you mean, you dont get what i'm saying, our numbers are still the same. Tell me, in my math, where i am wrong then.   Random Stats: 0 haste 10,000 crit 22,000 agi Crit = 39.13 Hit 7.5%/Exp 15%/   POLE ARM Speed (3.6/(1.4+((haste/(425/1.4))/100))) = 2.57 speed ( hey you got this one right!) Number of hits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 420/2.57= 163 hits Number of crits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 163*(39.13/100) =63.9 EB Stacks Generated in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 63.9*3 = 191.7 EB Per Second for a pole arm 191.7/420 = .4565 stacks per second   1h's Speed (0.5*(2.6/(1+((haste/425)/100)))) = 1.3 (half of 2.6 because no haste but there's 2 of them) Number of hits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) (420/1.3)*.81= 261.69  (.81 because of the 19% miss) Number of crits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 261.69*(39.13/100) =102.4 EB Stacks Generated in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 102.4*1.5 = 153.61 EB Per Second for a 1h's 153.61/420 = .36574 stacks per second   24.8285322% different. And that difference, in ratio, never changes, no mater how much you change the crit or haste. It's also the same for a polearm or a staff. There are 2 big differences between 1h's and 2h's in this case, Way of the Monk for 40% increased speed for 2h's, and the 19% miss chance for 1h's. So, in conclusion, both of those things are playing a part in why 2h's generate more EB.
  2. Thread of Ultimate Stupidity

    Well, lots of factors, including way of the monk, have to do with the disparity, which is 24% at lower levels, and higher if your crit levels are above 57%. Way of the monk was an attempt to balance the damage of the 2 so that one did not clearly beat the other (even though 1h's come out on top) But as for EB generation, Polearms take the lead by a good amount, and something has to account for this. If blizzard was trying to make them exactly even, removing way of the monk would favor 1h's then for EB generation. I think the big thing that is not being accounted for is 1h's chance to miss white damage (19% if exactly hit capped at 7.5%) If that wasn't there, Polearms and 1h's would be almost identical ( polearms would still win, but by a negligible amount). If i have 20% crit the disparity will be 24% more EB for Polearms, and if i have 55% crit that disparity is the same in ratio, 24%. 24% more uptime on EB is pretty significant, realistically making crit 24% more effective for polearms ( that being that i need about 20% less crit to get the same EB generation with a polearm as i do with 1h's) to all those out there rocking that 16000 crit (which again I will state is way to much, mastery ftw) and using 1h's ( gross) if you switch to a pole arm it would be equivelant (in EB generation) to adding 4000 crit rating on to yourself. Who wouldn't want that? Viva la mastery, and viva la Polearms!
  3. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    @Taser: Yea it is, good call, so haste is just as good for EB generation as 1h's. Thanks for coming up with that, I wasn't looking at the percentage more of eb's obtained between 2h's and 1h's. But, using a 2h, part of what gives them 24.1715% more stacks is the 40% increase in speed. But haste rating does not affect this percentage at all. Thanks Taser, and nevermite, hope that you see that 2h is the better choice for EB generation!
  4. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Were having a mis-communication, I wasn't saying that 2h was better or worse JUST because of haste, what I was saying is that my original equation was off because I hadn't realized that the 40% was playing into haste, I thought it would be 21% from haste and 40% from monk = 61% not 121% speed 40% increase. I thought it was additive, not multiplicative (I hope that's right) but as far as math, it's as if you are getting a 40% increase to haste (it's the same either way, i just put it at different portions of the equation) but it does make haste more valuable than at least I had orginally thought, because while that rating number isn't actually changing, if using a 2h it effectively means that you only need 303 haste rating for 1% increase in speed. The damage is balanced out because of the 40% increase in damage for dual wield, but is the EB generation? Spread sheet time!   http://1drv.ms/1llQoIy   So check that out and tell me what you think. I use 1.5 EB per crit for 1h's because 50% 1 and 50% 2 so that averages out to 1.5, the number of it's section is multiplied by .81 to account for 19% miss (if you capped exactly, so, could be slightly less, could be slightly more, but even without the 19%, it was still slightly under Polearm, even pisshands says in his guide that 1h's generate a smoother rate of income of EB but Polearm will produce the most. All the calculations in that are assuming a 7 minute fight ( so 420 seconds) and that you are expertise to 15% and hit to 7.5%. Also the 1h speed is combining both weapons ( meaning i took the speed and halved it so that you could see how often you would get a hit on average, mine is about 1.03 secs per hit.) you can just plug in your stats to check it out, but at my current ratings, i generate more with a 2h Polearm, I'm not sure how much it changes based on lowering haste. Cheers!
  5. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    @Nevermite: I will need to see where you found this information, because I promise you, I add 8998 haste rating, no buffs and it SHOULD give me 21.17 haste ( it shows that if I hover over my speed) and but it is adding 29.64% to my overall attack speed (Exactly 1.4 times 21.17) and then ON TOP OF THAT I get a base 40% haste from way of the monk. So, if I hover over I see that I get 21.17 haste from that amount of rating, but then I end up with 69.64% haste, as opposed to birtday suiting it and getting 40%. So my haste is definitely also being modified by 40%. Need some documentation cause that's what my character is doing, and let me know what you find on your character.
  6. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    So what i found was that indeed you are right, even with the 40% haste buff, it is slightly over 70% crit that haste becomes equivelant to crit at 70.83% chance. Meaning that with 0 Agility you need to (completely unbuffed) 39,500 more crit rating than haste rating. the equation to figure out how much more Crit rating you want is then 39,500-(Agi * (600/1259.52)) Subtract another 3,000 if you have Crit buff Just write down your agi buffed in LFR some time and put it in the equation so raid buffed is 36,500-(Agi*(600/1259.52))   This means that with 32k Agi you need 21256 MORE Crit rating than haste for them to become equal. It's not possible to get that I don't believe and that's MORE than haste, if you have 5% haste buff it puts that number even higher. Also, by the time you reached this number, I would think you would be generating EB faster than you could use it.   After all that is said and done though, even with my weak 8k crit and 11,125 Haste I still generate about 270 EB stacks in a 7 minute fight from Auto Attacks, and 55 from Chi Brew, giving me a total of 325 Seconds of EB in a 420 Second fight, meaning that 100 of those seconds will not have EB, giving me a theoretical 77% up time on EB. That's raid buffed with me reforging off all the crit that I possibly can. If it's a tank swap fight that means I only tank the boss 50% of the time ( so I have more than enough stacks to keep it up for 100% of the time I have the boss) and even when I have to go tank something else in the interim (like on blackfuse with his add) that add is not looking at me/ alive for more than half of the time i don't have the boss on me. 5k Crit rating is more than enough to keep EB up 100% of the time tanking a boss when not solo tanking. 18k Crit is CRAZY high, and way over the top. I'm gonna say it again, Stagger/purify is more important to our over all survivability/working relations with healers and their mana pools. I also, on a fight like nazgrim, still do about 120-150k dps (which I dont think is terrible, but maybe I'm a baddie)   By the way, here's the equations I worked out to try and help me get all those numbers above   A = Haste rating B = Crit Rating C = Agi 3.6/(1.4+((A/(425/1.4))/100)) = weapon speed (B/600)+(C/1259.52)+5 = Crit % 420/Weapon Speed = Number of hits in a 7 minute period Hits x Crit = Number of Critical Strikes NoCS x 3 = EB's gained EB's Gained / 420 = EB's per second   420 is the number of seconds in 7 minutes, and I assume a 3.6 speed for polearm cause duh that's the best.   For weapon speed I figure out that way of the monk gives you 40% and gives you 40% more haste so that's where the 1.4's come in in the first weapon speed equation I can't open that spread sheet at my work computer (damn restrictive network) so I'm not sure how that compares to pisshands. But this gave me the same results that his spreadsheet did so, I feel it's accurate.
  7. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    @Nevermite: I know about the way of the monk but was unsure how it was calculated in, after doing my own personal testing, it appears to be giving me 40% increased haste as well, making haste for 2h's 40% more valuable, meaning that my calculations are off, and that the max crit to get (if using a 2h) is less than originally theorized. I will have to sit down sometime and recalculate that into my math, or try to find more decisive results on way of the monk and the effects that it has on haste. (I didn’t yet check for exactly 40% but I eyeballed it earlier and figured out that in total it was giving me about half again more) (I really hope half again more is the right term to use there  =P). I am using my previously mentioned Mastery/haste stat priority (I love it by the way, and my healers comment that compared to our other monk, even though he is taking SLIGHTLY less damage on fights, which could just be that he out gears me, that my health is far more consistent and I seem to have better control of how my health dips, ducks and dives) and Malkroks polearm is what I will pretty much stay using as I feel it is my BiS   @Taser: Crit and haste are dependant of each other, and point for point I feel that they become equal as you scale them equally but yes, I had forgotten to take into account crit from agility and that it’s not as simple as ‘at this amount of crit, haste should be scaled on an equal basis point for point with crit’ I still have to do more research on way of the monk effects on haste value (as said above) and then I will be able to better make an accurate judgment. It will probably result in an equation to plug in agi value to give crit rating at which they should be comparable. Meaning that your crit point rating should as close to X amount as possible above haste rating if you have Y amount of agility for maximum EB generation. These are not the actual numbers; this is just for principle purposes   If you have 29,000 agi then your crit rating should be 6000 points higher than your haste, no more, no less for maximization, but if you have 30,000 agi then you should only be 5800 points higher than your haste. Again, these are not the actual numbers, just a representation of what I am talking about. I’ll see if I can conjure up a spread sheet to help us out.   Though I still will protest that on tank swap fights, you should only be generating around .5 EB stacks per second, or you will go over your limit and waste points on EB generation as compared to mastery which can effectively remove damage when paired with a chi, and if you are using Chi Brew effectively which gives you 1 EB per 9 secs in theory ( and better than that it’s on demand, so you can chose moments of no EB to use it on), or rather it gives you .11 EB per second of the .5 EB that you should theoretically need. It also effectively allows you to stack 25 seconds of EB as opposed 15 stacks with other talents, so, you don’t need that much crit to keep 100% uptime on EB (uptime being times that you are tanking something) and your points are better off in Mastery, and I argue haste as a secondary because chi can turn mastery from mitigation to avoidance.   Look forward to your responses, if you know some info on the way of the monk 2h to haste stuff, let me know so I can start crafting that spreadsheet.
  8. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    The spread sheet seems off with respect to that, because 70.78% is not nearly what I got.   My swing speed is 2.11, and a fight (IMO) lasts 7 mins about (7x60=420sec.)   420/2.11 = 199.05 (so 199 swings in that fight)   if you have a 50% chance to crit, theoretically you will have 99.52 crits, so ~100. If you add 1% crit you get 101.51 crits so ~102. If you add 1% haste you get 100.53 so ~101. So here we can see that crit wins (were still under 60%) but not by as much as it does with less amounts of crit.   Let's look at 60% crit and see what happens when we add 600 crit rating and 600 haste rating   again 199.05 swings in the fight   60% base to crit here, so 199.05 x .6 = 119.43 crits (in theory) so ~119 is our go off number 61% crit, so 199.05 x .61 = 121.42 crits so ~121 crits ( in theory) new swing speed 420/(2.11 x ((100-(600/425))/100)) = 201.90 swings in 7 minutes 201.90 x .6= 121.14 crits so ~121 crits   I'm not sure what the exact number is, but it's between 60-61% crit, not 70% that 1 point of haste becomes as effective as 1 point of crit.. Also, when using a 2h, i notice that 425 haste gives me more than 1% haste on my total, but not my hover over and look, so I'm not sure what's up with that. Just above Piss says that spread sheet was just thrown together and a little off, but i think this show's it pretty accurately. I'm not sure what the exact number of crit you get buffed is (everyone will be different of course thanks to stats buff with agi) but i'd imagine it's somwhere around the 8% mark meaning you want MAYBE 53% crit unbuffed or you are missing out on EB stack generation ( though not a whole lot)
  9. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Also, after doing some math today I found out that haste and critical strike become equivalent at 60% crit for EB generation. Point for point not percent for percent.
  10. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    I am more talking about the mastery though, and choosing haste to help with chi generation to purify as often as is possible. My argument is that you will take less over all damage doing a Mastery spec vs. a crit spec. if you are going to take a 200 hit after armor and you have 45% stagger, then that means you will take 110 hit. If then you add 1% more stagger, you will then take 108 ( and 2 less for every point of stagger) you will then be reducing you damage taken by 1.82% for every point of mastery. However, the damage isn’t removed, it is procrastinated, so that you receive 10% of that amount every second. So every second you let your stagger tick it’s losing .182% of damage reduction from your original 1.82% for 1% mastery. Your spread sheet notes that 1% crit will (buffed) give you .45% dodge. So that means that it’s a .45% theoretical damage reduction for 1% crit. 1% mastery is 1.82% of theoretical damage reduction (it becomes less as you begin to dodge/parry more). If you think of your avoidance at base with shuffle, that is probably about 50% (ish, maybe less, but I’ll round up for the sake of argument) so that means that mastery is only 50% effective, because it’s only working when you get hit. So that reduces the theoretical damage taken to .91 and every second you lose .091% of that after the hit is taken. Now, you’re not going to purify every time you get hit, but let’s say the boss is on a 1 second swing timer and you have your 50% avoidance and so in a perfect world you get hit 5 times in 10 seconds, which would roughly look like this:   Seconds    1              2              3              4              5              6              7              8              9              10 Hits         Avoid        Hit          Avoid          Hit          Avoid         Hit          Avoid         Hit          Avoid          Hit    If you purify every 5 seconds, the first time, you have taken 2 hits, the first hit will have ticked for 3 seconds reducing the effect of mastery on it by .273, giving 1% mastery a theoretical .637 damage reduction for the first hit and the second hit will have ticked for 1 second, reducing 1% mastery’s effectiveness by .091 giving it .819% damage reduction, averaging the two gives for the first 5 seconds .728 damage reduction total for 1% mastery. The second 5 seconds, we are hit and it ticks for 4 seconds, reducing effectiveness by .364 giving 1% mastery a .546% damage reduction, 2nd hit ticks for 2 seconds so .182% reduce, making it .728% damage reduction and the 3rd tick is purified instantly and will gain full effective ness of .91% damage reduction. The second purify gives out an average damage reduction of .728% damage reduction. 1% crit only give you .45% (as said by your spread sheet) dodge which is transitively .45% damage reduction. Mastery wins on percentage in this scenario but for rating it take 960 for 1% mastery, and 600 for 1% crit, meaning you need 60% more points for mastery. So let’s increase the dodge % by 60%, we would get .72% dodge from 960 crit rating as opposed to .45%. Meaning that if done perfectly mastery wins out BARELY. But, if we are purifying every 5 seconds we have to look at the fact that we are purifying another 45% from the base, we also could give mastery a 15% increase in effectiveness if we combine it with latest tier 4 piece bonus (though you could give a bonus to crit for the 2 piece, I’m not sure what though). As for my comment about Chi Brew, I like it for this spec better than ascension because of the 5 EB stacks that you can store up, and it’s not a huge difference, and ascension only generates more than power strikes at extremely high levels of haste, I’m not sure what the number is, but as for the 3 talents, it’s a miniscule difference between the 3, and having the on demand chi/EB makes chi brew more enticing to me. Again, not sure if my math is way off here, just throwing some numbers out there.   Also, I say haste is second priority to help with Purify brew, and that EB should only be used in oh poop moments, and if you are tank swapping, crit will lose a lot of effectiveness if you cap 15 stacks of EB.   It’s all personal preference, and with mastery spec I don’t feel necessarily as kick ass as when I am crit spec, but I feel like I have a zillion times more control over my incoming damage and am not praying to god that my healers don’t get silenced for half a second. Damage smoothing is a huge part of giving slack to your healers for their mana conservation and the ability to not have to focus you, and give you a better effectiveness with using self-heals. As a tank it’s our job to take damage and make it manageable and mastery spec, I feel, does this job best, and it is for that reason I feel that it is the only viable tanking option. =]
  11. Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

    Has anyone tried a Mastery/Haste build, to generate more chi for PB and Mastery for smoothing? at low levels I feel like crit might have been the way to go, but mastery increases as you gear more for it. Every 1% of mastery gained through points ( so not the natural 45% cause I assume you have shuffle up 100%) increases your damage reduction by about 1.82% if purified immediately. Crits value is constantly diminishing as you get closer and closer to 100%, same as hit and expertise ( or tankspertise). Crit gearing is also EXTREMELY unreliable. You are increasing your CHANCE to gain a stack of something that gives you a CHANCE to avoid damage. Tanks die when this fails for either not gaining EB or EB doing nothing because a boss beats the odds and nails you 10 times. If I had mastery on every piece of gear naturally i could get 20% extra ( give me 62-63% raid buffed). If I'm not mistaken, 1% crit gives you a 1% chance at 30% dodge, so really it's more like .30% chance to miss damage. 1% mastery gives 100% chance to reduce damage (if purified instantly. Every second after that the damage reduction becomes 10% less (.182 less every second) because you have, at that point, taken said damage. Even if you have only purify every 5 seconds, which isn't that much if you are stacking haste as a secondary, you just beat on a 1% for 1% exchange for crit. You should not be ending the fight with 2 minutes of shuffle, that is wasted chi. Ideally shuffle should end the second the boss dies, now, were human, so that doesn't happen, but everything else should be going to PB and Guard. I would also state with this spec that you should be using Chi Brew instead of ascension or power strikes, while slightly less chi per minute ( depending on fight length actually due to stacking 2 brew at beginning of fight) to compensate for "Oh poop i need a defensive CD" and give you EB stacks, 5 per brew. Also worth noting, I feel like haste affects EB chance juas as Crit does if you're stacking the 2 together equally. The chance to get a crit is affected by how often you swing and how much crit chance you have, on a 1 to 1 basis. if you have more crit than haste, gearing more haste increases your chance to crit more than more crit, and vice versa. So if you're going to stack crit and mastery but not haste, wouldn't stacking haste and not crit be the same defensively for EB generation? I understand Crit is better Offensively, but I want to live, not kill, that's someone else's job. I just feel like if I purify every 7 seconds or more, I take Less overall damage then a crit spec, PLUS I'm easier for the healers to heal, and dont have to worry about random acts of god killing me ( eg. Boss beats the odds and hits me 10 times in a row) I'm not sure though, on really any of this, but this is what i was thinking up today on my lunch break. Let me know what you think!