• ### Announcements

• #### Forum Rules (Updated 3/22/14)07/14/10

If you violate a forum rule, you will receive an infraction. Most infractions are worth one point, although we reserve the right to give you more at any time if we feel you deserve them. If you accumulate too many infraction points, you will receive an automatic (usually temporary) ban which revokes your posting privileges, as follows: 3 Points - 1 Day 5 Points - 3 Days 8 Points - 1 Week 10 Points - 1 Month 15 Points - Permanent

Familiarize yourself with The Banhammer, an archive of all infractions given by the moderators here; it will give you some examples of what not to do. Also feel free to take a gander over The Dung Heap, which will give you a good idea of what these forums would look like if we weren't such jerks.   Thank you for joining the discussion!

# Carrot

Members

10

• Rank
Glass Joe

## WoW Profile

• Character Name Carrot
• Gender Female
• Race Human
• Class Monk
• Realm Uldum
• Realm Location United States
• Guild The Stand
1. ## Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

I get it. (and no they aren't equal) 2h's are better than 1h's for EB generation. End of story. I dont know why, I was just saying that it plays a factor cause it does, and whatever, were not thinking of things the same way. Let's move away from way of the monk, because I'm going to stop bringing it up, I get what you mean, you dont get what i'm saying, our numbers are still the same. Tell me, in my math, where i am wrong then.   Random Stats: 0 haste 10,000 crit 22,000 agi Crit = 39.13 Hit 7.5%/Exp 15%/   POLE ARM Speed (3.6/(1.4+((haste/(425/1.4))/100))) = 2.57 speed ( hey you got this one right!) Number of hits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 420/2.57= 163 hits Number of crits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 163*(39.13/100) =63.9 EB Stacks Generated in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 63.9*3 = 191.7 EB Per Second for a pole arm 191.7/420 = .4565 stacks per second   1h's Speed (0.5*(2.6/(1+((haste/425)/100)))) = 1.3 (half of 2.6 because no haste but there's 2 of them) Number of hits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) (420/1.3)*.81= 261.69  (.81 because of the 19% miss) Number of crits in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 261.69*(39.13/100) =102.4 EB Stacks Generated in a 7 minute period (420 seconds) 102.4*1.5 = 153.61 EB Per Second for a 1h's 153.61/420 = .36574 stacks per second   24.8285322% different. And that difference, in ratio, never changes, no mater how much you change the crit or haste. It's also the same for a polearm or a staff. There are 2 big differences between 1h's and 2h's in this case, Way of the Monk for 40% increased speed for 2h's, and the 19% miss chance for 1h's. So, in conclusion, both of those things are playing a part in why 2h's generate more EB.
2. ## Thread of Ultimate Stupidity

Well, lots of factors, including way of the monk, have to do with the disparity, which is 24% at lower levels, and higher if your crit levels are above 57%. Way of the monk was an attempt to balance the damage of the 2 so that one did not clearly beat the other (even though 1h's come out on top) But as for EB generation, Polearms take the lead by a good amount, and something has to account for this. If blizzard was trying to make them exactly even, removing way of the monk would favor 1h's then for EB generation. I think the big thing that is not being accounted for is 1h's chance to miss white damage (19% if exactly hit capped at 7.5%) If that wasn't there, Polearms and 1h's would be almost identical ( polearms would still win, but by a negligible amount). If i have 20% crit the disparity will be 24% more EB for Polearms, and if i have 55% crit that disparity is the same in ratio, 24%. 24% more uptime on EB is pretty significant, realistically making crit 24% more effective for polearms ( that being that i need about 20% less crit to get the same EB generation with a polearm as i do with 1h's) to all those out there rocking that 16000 crit (which again I will state is way to much, mastery ftw) and using 1h's ( gross) if you switch to a pole arm it would be equivelant (in EB generation) to adding 4000 crit rating on to yourself. Who wouldn't want that? Viva la mastery, and viva la Polearms!
3. ## Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

@Taser: Yea it is, good call, so haste is just as good for EB generation as 1h's. Thanks for coming up with that, I wasn't looking at the percentage more of eb's obtained between 2h's and 1h's. But, using a 2h, part of what gives them 24.1715% more stacks is the 40% increase in speed. But haste rating does not affect this percentage at all. Thanks Taser, and nevermite, hope that you see that 2h is the better choice for EB generation!
4. ## Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

Were having a mis-communication, I wasn't saying that 2h was better or worse JUST because of haste, what I was saying is that my original equation was off because I hadn't realized that the 40% was playing into haste, I thought it would be 21% from haste and 40% from monk = 61% not 121% speed 40% increase. I thought it was additive, not multiplicative (I hope that's right) but as far as math, it's as if you are getting a 40% increase to haste (it's the same either way, i just put it at different portions of the equation) but it does make haste more valuable than at least I had orginally thought, because while that rating number isn't actually changing, if using a 2h it effectively means that you only need 303 haste rating for 1% increase in speed. The damage is balanced out because of the 40% increase in damage for dual wield, but is the EB generation? Spread sheet time!   http://1drv.ms/1llQoIy   So check that out and tell me what you think. I use 1.5 EB per crit for 1h's because 50% 1 and 50% 2 so that averages out to 1.5, the number of it's section is multiplied by .81 to account for 19% miss (if you capped exactly, so, could be slightly less, could be slightly more, but even without the 19%, it was still slightly under Polearm, even pisshands says in his guide that 1h's generate a smoother rate of income of EB but Polearm will produce the most. All the calculations in that are assuming a 7 minute fight ( so 420 seconds) and that you are expertise to 15% and hit to 7.5%. Also the 1h speed is combining both weapons ( meaning i took the speed and halved it so that you could see how often you would get a hit on average, mine is about 1.03 secs per hit.) you can just plug in your stats to check it out, but at my current ratings, i generate more with a 2h Polearm, I'm not sure how much it changes based on lowering haste. Cheers!
5. ## Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

@Nevermite: I will need to see where you found this information, because I promise you, I add 8998 haste rating, no buffs and it SHOULD give me 21.17 haste ( it shows that if I hover over my speed) and but it is adding 29.64% to my overall attack speed (Exactly 1.4 times 21.17) and then ON TOP OF THAT I get a base 40% haste from way of the monk. So, if I hover over I see that I get 21.17 haste from that amount of rating, but then I end up with 69.64% haste, as opposed to birtday suiting it and getting 40%. So my haste is definitely also being modified by 40%. Need some documentation cause that's what my character is doing, and let me know what you find on your character.
6. ## Like Water - The Brewmaster's Resource [5.4]

So what i found was that indeed you are right, even with the 40% haste buff, it is slightly over 70% crit that haste becomes equivelant to crit at 70.83% chance. Meaning that with 0 Agility you need to (completely unbuffed) 39,500 more crit rating than haste rating. the equation to figure out how much more Crit rating you want is then 39,500-(Agi * (600/1259.52)) Subtract another 3,000 if you have Crit buff Just write down your agi buffed in LFR some time and put it in the equation so raid buffed is 36,500-(Agi*(600/1259.52))   This means that with 32k Agi you need 21256 MORE Crit rating than haste for them to become equal. It's not possible to get that I don't believe and that's MORE than haste, if you have 5% haste buff it puts that number even higher. Also, by the time you reached this number, I would think you would be generating EB faster than you could use it.   After all that is said and done though, even with my weak 8k crit and 11,125 Haste I still generate about 270 EB stacks in a 7 minute fight from Auto Attacks, and 55 from Chi Brew, giving me a total of 325 Seconds of EB in a 420 Second fight, meaning that 100 of those seconds will not have EB, giving me a theoretical 77% up time on EB. That's raid buffed with me reforging off all the crit that I possibly can. If it's a tank swap fight that means I only tank the boss 50% of the time ( so I have more than enough stacks to keep it up for 100% of the time I have the boss) and even when I have to go tank something else in the interim (like on blackfuse with his add) that add is not looking at me/ alive for more than half of the time i don't have the boss on me. 5k Crit rating is more than enough to keep EB up 100% of the time tanking a boss when not solo tanking. 18k Crit is CRAZY high, and way over the top. I'm gonna say it again, Stagger/purify is more important to our over all survivability/working relations with healers and their mana pools. I also, on a fight like nazgrim, still do about 120-150k dps (which I dont think is terrible, but maybe I'm a baddie)   By the way, here's the equations I worked out to try and help me get all those numbers above   A = Haste rating B = Crit Rating C = Agi 3.6/(1.4+((A/(425/1.4))/100)) = weapon speed (B/600)+(C/1259.52)+5 = Crit % 420/Weapon Speed = Number of hits in a 7 minute period Hits x Crit = Number of Critical Strikes NoCS x 3 = EB's gained EB's Gained / 420 = EB's per second   420 is the number of seconds in 7 minutes, and I assume a 3.6 speed for polearm cause duh that's the best.   For weapon speed I figure out that way of the monk gives you 40% and gives you 40% more haste so that's where the 1.4's come in in the first weapon speed equation I can't open that spread sheet at my work computer (damn restrictive network) so I'm not sure how that compares to pisshands. But this gave me the same results that his spreadsheet did so, I feel it's accurate.