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#461 Astrylian

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 03:33 AM

You can hold off Ripping by up to 2 sec, and Raking by up to 3 sec, from when you first can do it, with no uptime loss, though.
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#462 Leafkiller

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 04:28 AM

You can hold off Ripping by up to 2 sec, and Raking by up to 3 sec, from when you first can do it, with no uptime loss, though.


The sim scripts include that - it is set to clip rake if rake left is less than 3.0 seconds and clip rip if rip left is less than 2.0 seconds. The results I posted include that logic. I will continue to investigate ways to optimize the dps through TF syncing and see if I can make it meaningful enough to include in the rotation. The earlier versions of my script did that but I removed it when it was showing as a dps loss in my simulations (although a very small one). With the more sophisticated checks I have now - it looks like it is a small dps gain.

I have some more ideas of ways to refine my logic that I will test out - and if I find anything interesting I will post it and test it in Ovale to see how the rotation feels. I want to make sure it is both meaningful and also something that can be executed in game.

edit: One thing we kind of glossed over in this discussion. There are only 10 or 11 TFs in a 5 minute fight. We are dealing with a case where Rip/Rake is coming off of cooldown within 2/3 seconds of TF coming off of cooldown (or more to the point within 1 second), where there is no OOC proc and where energy is low enough that you won't need to Shred first. This is a small case that does not happen often.

#463 Leafkiller

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:54 PM

I did some additional testing on waiting for TF before Rip/Rake. What I found is that as long as TF will be up before the end of the clip window, then in Mew it is a dps up to wait for TF. Specifically, I had the best simulated results with the following two conditionals:

if (cps >= 5 && timeToDie >= 6 && (!status.isRipUp() || ripRemaining < 2.0) && (status.isBerserkUp() || ripRemaining <= tfRemaining))

if (timeToDie >= status.getRakeBaseDuration() && (!status.isRakeUp() || rakeRemaining < 3.0) && (status.isBerserkUp() || rakeRemaining - 0.8 <= tfRemaining || energy >= 71))

Testing with two different level 80 toons and two premade t-11 toons, the dps up for waiting varies from around 10dps for the level 80 toons to up to 40dps for the t-11 premades.

Rip in particular is extremely sensitive to being cast late - even setting the code to allow only a .5 second late window on Rip becomes a dps loss over not waiting at all for TF. Given the human factors in an actual fight, I would recommend against waiting on TF before casting Rip. The chances of missing the clip window due to TF being delayed are too high.

On the other hand, Rake is not as sensitive to missing the clip window. For the level 80 toons, syncing is pretty much a wash with or without waiting for TF, and for the level 85 premades, even allowing for Rake to be cast up to 1 second after the clip window, putting the code in to wait for TF is a 20-25 dps gain (around .1%).

From a rotational perspective, if you are using a move suggester such as Ovale, then putting in the sync code does not make the rotation any more difficult. Clearly for someone not using a move suggester, it is more complex to try to synchronize the Rake and TF timers and fit both into the clip window.

I am going to leave this out of my rotation at this point unless something changes to make this more beneficial.

#464 Astrylian

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:25 PM

I've got Rawr.Bear mostly ready for Cata, and am focusing now on Rawr.Cat. Here's my musings on how to closed-form model Cat DPS right now. An important note here is that, as before, Rawr.Cat will be based on a player which plays optimally (but that's not to be confused with a player which players better than optimally, is especially lucky, or can predict the future, or has 0 reaction time. Most people will not reach their optimal DPS, but they could).

Ability Usage
Melee: Constantly used for full fight duration.
Rake: Constantly ticking after 1sec (Ravage) or 2sec (Ravage+Mangle if applying Mangle). 1-2 misses in a row do not reduce uptime, 3 misses in a row reduces uptime by [latency]. 4+ misses in a row reduces uptime by [misses-3+latency].
Rip: Constantly ticking after 5cp are generated. 1 miss does not reduce uptime. 2 misses in a row reduces uptime by [latency]. 3+ misses in a row reduces uptime by [misses-2+latency].
Mangle: Used 1/min, if not covered by someone else. (EDIT: Or used thrice at the start and then once every 30sec with T11)
Shred: Used to generate needed combo points for Rip+SR uptime, and then extra energy used on it (minus energy needed to FB enough).
Ferocious Bite: Used to use up extra CP. Will have to evaluate both 35 and 0 extra energy bites.
Ravage: Will model ravage as an attack that takes 2 GCDs, can be used every 30sec, costs 10 energy, and you lose [1-s/2]sec of melee damage (s=melee attack speed). Will make it optional, and evaluate with and without it.
Savage Roar: Constant after 5+5cp.
Tiger's Fury: Used every 30sec, after 3sec (to use up initial energy). Need more thought on what attacks get the +15% boost. At least the 30%->0% Rip will be boosted, beyond that perhaps just evaluate whether they'll line up right with each Rip/Rake application.
Berserk: Used every 3min, after 3sec (to use up initial energy).

Will probably evaluate the rotation once for 100%->25%, and then a second time for 25%->0%, with Rip applications (but not damage) ignored.

EDIT 2: Here's the damage numbers I've got; if anyone has anything more up to date, please let me know:

Melee: 1 + WeaponDPS + AP/14
Fury Swipes: (Melee+0)*3.1
Mangle: (Melee+316)*3.6
Ravage: (Melee+330)*8.5
Shred: (Melee+330)*3.5
Rake Init: 304 + AP*.023
Rake Tick: 620 + AP*.14
Rip Tick: 868 + AP*.115
Ferocious Bite: 2822 + AP*.545

Melee, Fury Swipes, Mangle, Ravage, Shred, and Ferocious Bite are affected by armor. (TODO: Check if Rake Init is; it wasn't last I checked, but that's inconsistent with Lacerate/Thrash, so they may have fixed/changed that)
Savage Roar buffs plain Melee by 50%, or 55% when glyphed (but not any of the others that are based on Melee).
Bleed multipliers buff Shred, Rake Init, Rake Tick, and Rip Tick by 30%.
4T10 and 2T11 buff Rake Init and Rake Tick by 10%.
Glyph of Mangle buffs Mangle by 10%.
Glyph of Rip buffs Rip Tick by 15%.
Feral Aggression buffs Ferocious Bite by 10%.
Rend and Tear buffs Shred by 20% on bleeding targets.
Tiger's Fury buffs abilities applied while it's up by 15%.

Any other damage-affecting things I'm forgetting?
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#465 teranosouras

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 02:58 AM

Mangle: Used 1/min, if not covered by someone else

T11 set bonus would need to be allowed somewhere too, not letting those stacks fall off etc.

#466 Yawning

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 12:11 AM

Any other damage-affecting things I'm forgetting?


Ravage loss is higher (swing timer reset, lost Fury Swipes procs). Crit rate is variable depending on mob HP. Determining travel time both ways is probably better than "screw it, it just takes 1 GCD".

Last I checked Rake vs Rip refresh behavior is inconsistent. They may have changed this for 4.0.3a, I haven't gone back and looked at it. Rake refresh just works. Rip refresh checks CPs/AP (and probably crit). Irrelevant unless proc effects are present.

Mangle with 4T11 should be used earlier (Mangle at 4t11 buff <= 4 sec is the highest priority thing that you can do. You could reduce the window assuming hit/exp cap, but no one should be doing that to begin with.)

The amount of extra energy going into FB and the resulting damage is rather difficult to model (Toskk used curve fitting, the coefficients I have for 85 are off). It scales inversely with hit/expertise depending on how much energy you have (missing assuming you are < 70e out of berserk without OoC up gives you more bite damage).

SR at < 5 CP appears to be fine. I haven't noticed using 5 pt roars to be superior in any way.

Rip < 25% will not innately have 100% TF uptime. (TF status is re-snapshotted on Ferocious Bite triggered Rip refresh.)

2T11 more than likely does not affect Rake initial damage.

Depending on the druid, the critical strike damage multiplier is inconsistent (some people have 2.2x some people have 2.0x, the former is probably a bug).

Primal Madness is a DPS gain. However, evaluating it as +20e is incorrect and will inflate DPS (although that's what I do for the closed form model that I current have).

#467 Astrylian

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 02:47 AM

Ravage loss is higher (swing timer reset, lost Fury Swipes procs). Crit rate is variable depending on mob HP. Determining travel time both ways is probably better than "screw it, it just takes 1 GCD".

Last I checked Rake vs Rip refresh behavior is inconsistent. They may have changed this for 4.0.3a, I haven't gone back and looked at it. Rake refresh just works. Rip refresh checks CPs/AP (and probably crit). Irrelevant unless proc effects are present.

Mangle with 4T11 should be used earlier (Mangle at 4t11 buff <= 4 sec is the highest priority thing that you can do. You could reduce the window assuming hit/exp cap, but no one should be doing that to begin with.)

The amount of extra energy going into FB and the resulting damage is rather difficult to model (Toskk used curve fitting, the coefficients I have for 85 are off). It scales inversely with hit/expertise depending on how much energy you have (missing assuming you are < 70e out of berserk without OoC up gives you more bite damage).

SR at < 5 CP appears to be fine. I haven't noticed using 5 pt roars to be superior in any way.

Rip < 25% will not innately have 100% TF uptime. (TF status is re-snapshotted on Ferocious Bite triggered Rip refresh.)

2T11 more than likely does not affect Rake initial damage.

Depending on the druid, the critical strike damage multiplier is inconsistent (some people have 2.2x some people have 2.0x, the former is probably a bug).

Primal Madness is a DPS gain. However, evaluating it as +20e is incorrect and will inflate DPS (although that's what I do for the closed form model that I current have).


How should the Ravage be different? I estimated the time off target to be 1sec, based on some testing, and with that the lost melee time would be [1-s/2] where s is the attack speed.

Lets double check that; I haven't seen any 'strong effect already active' sort of errors for Rip in 4.0.3a, but I haven't explicitly tested that.

Mangle with 4T11: yeah, plan to just have you use it every 57sec when maintaining Mangle, and 27sec when maintaining 4T11, at least to start with. Can get into reducing that overlap based on hit/exp later, it's negligible enough to not bother with right now.

FB's extra energy is indeed complex. I'm going to put a good bit of thought into that one...

Regarding SR, I as assuming only using 4cp or 5cp SRs; has your modeling found using <4cp SRs to ever be a DPS gain?

I didn't know about FB refreshed Rips being resnapshotted; that'll be important.

I'm going to assume for now that 2T11 does affect Rake Initial, and will fix it later if that proves not to be the case; it's minor enough that it shouldn't change much else.

The crit strike multiplier being 2.2x for some people should be fixed by now, or at least will be by Cata, I think. Gunna just assume that bug is fixed for Cata.

Primal Madness is an interesting one; it's 20 energy, minus however much energy you have when it wears off (up to 20). So in the worst case, it's worth 0, but in the best it's worth 20. I think I'll start out by valuing it at just 10 energy, and see how it actually ends up playing out in practice. Not sure how prevalent it'll be to have macros to cancel it when you're near 0 energy. I know that now you can TF and Berserk at the same time (at least if you TF first, I think?). And when both are up, they still give you only +20 max energy, not +40. But I think at one point, when the first one wore off (ie, TF), both would wear off. Is that still the case?


Thanks for all this.

EDIT: Oh, has anyone tested OoC proc rate lately?
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#468 Hoofhearted

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 04:58 AM

Since savage roar only affects autoattack which is a fairly static damage source, can't it just be treated as a dot?
To me it seems that 1 point for 22 seconds versus 5 points for 42 seconds is going to lead to 1/2 point savage roars being the best damage per combo point. The loss of 25 energy every 20 seconds isn't going to be a greater damage loss than what you gain from 3/4 spare combo points.
With this mindset I've stopped clipping savage roar by more than 1 second.

You are still unable to overwrite a stronger rip. Tested just now with and without shred glyph.

If you berserk while you have primal madness up berserk doesn't give you any extra energy. When tiger's fury falls off you don't lose any energy. When berserk falls off you lose 20 energy.

#469 Odas

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 05:37 AM

The crit strike multiplier being 2.2x for some people should be fixed by now, or at least will be by Cata, I think. Gunna just assume that bug is fixed for Cata.


I can confirm that as of 4.0.3a the bug has not been fixed.

#470 Leafkiller

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 07:11 AM

Mangle with 4T11: yeah, plan to just have you use it every 57sec when maintaining Mangle, and 27sec when maintaining 4T11, at least to start with.


I did extensive testing on a target dummy with 4t11 and found that 3 seconds was the minimum safe clipping time for Panther - and 4 seconds was the best. This was on a t11 premade that was hit capped and at 22 expertise. Testing was using my Ovale script to drive the rotation. When I took the data to Mew, the simulations matched what I had observed - dps was highest if you set the cycle to refresh 4 seconds in advance. However, for modeling, the actual refresh on average occurred somewhere in the middle of the 4 second window. You just need to stop casting anything else that early in order to make sure you are not energy/gcd bound. Letting Panther drop was always a greater dps loss than refreshing it early in my sims - hence the 4 second window.

Regarding SR, I as assuming only using 4cp or 5cp SRs; has your modeling found using <4cp SRs to ever be a DPS gain?


I just tested this with my t11 premade, using both the default sim script and my sim script. In all cases, setting the minimum SR refresh to anything above 1 combo point and setting the refresh limit to anything more that 1 second tests out as dps losses. At a 4 combo point minimum, the loss is just over 100 dps (about .5% for this toon) on a 5 minute fight.

For the default script, the average number of combo points per SR is 3.1, which drops down to 2.7 if I disable the code to clip SR when it is expiring close to Rip. In my script the average number of combo points per SR is 2.4, which drops to 2.3 with the desync code disabled (my code has more stringent rules to prevent SR from affecting Rip and desyncs less).

Default script uptimes: Rake 98.5%, Rip 95.0%, SR 97.5%
My script uptimes: Rake 97.9%, Rip, 96.2%, SR 94.1%.

On the toon tested, my script is doing 51 more dps - about .25%.

#471 KrmtDfrog

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 07:33 AM

until they un-nerf Relentless _____ from the blue gem requirement? Last I heard, this was a supposed "to be fixed some time in the future patch" with no set date. Scrolling back to over a month ago, I didn't see any posts on what Meta I should be using now (and for however long until they re-change this). My assumption would be Thundering Skyflare or Swift Skyflare if it worked with our inherent run-speed increase? Failing that, it seems like the only options are either a generic +haste or +crit meta

#472 Leafkiller

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:07 AM

I gemmed Thundering for now.

#473 Yawning

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 11:46 AM

How should the Ravage be different? I estimated the time off target to be 1sec, based on some testing, and with that the lost melee time would be [1-s/2] where s is the attack speed.

EDIT: Oh, has anyone tested OoC proc rate lately?


Mmm, depending on if your lost melee time factors in OoC/Fury Swipes, that's probably ok for Ravage. It's not particularly practice I see as healthy (IMO, there are much better things to use the Feral Charge timer for on most encounters), but I can see the desire to model it. Are you going to implement Rake/Rip refresh and time away from target clashing? Yes, there's 2-3 GCDs worth of window on the refresh, but most people probably aren't going to be hit/exp capped.

Last I checked (mid-beta cycle) OoC was still 3.5 PPM (5.83333333%). An open question that still needs solving (at least I haven't come across conclusive proof either way) is Fury Swipes as an OoC trigger. Direct inspection of the combat log seemed insufficient due to lag between the trigger and the buff gain being inconsistent so I tried logging a few hours of auto attacking the dummy, but my results were inconclusive (it seemed like a yes, but my sample size was not large enough to rule out RNG). The base proc rate is correct though. It doesn't actually make that much difference either way but it's something I do want to get a definitive answer on (Mew assumes that it does not for now).

#474 Mihir

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 06:00 PM

until they un-nerf Relentless _____ from the blue gem requirement? Last I heard, this was a supposed "to be fixed some time in the future patch" with no set date. Scrolling back to over a month ago, I didn't see any posts on what Meta I should be using now (and for however long until they re-change this). My assumption would be Thundering Skyflare or Swift Skyflare if it worked with our inherent run-speed increase? Failing that, it seems like the only options are either a generic +haste or +crit meta


At the start of cata you won't have a lot of sockets, so relentless should be the best option there. But once you have to sacrifice more than like 150 agi, it wont be worth using until they fix the requirement. (can easily calculate the switch-over point using mew)

#475 Althor

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:19 AM

SimulationCraft's Feral module is getting closer to what I would consider a level of correctness. Thanks to a quick code audit by Yawning I've fixed a number of bugs we had and I have also adjusted the default priority list for Cats. Like Mew some of our trinket ICD's are just best-guesses at present and so should be taken with a grain of salt.

I personally haven't done a full action by action audit of the module yet nor checked the gear selection but it's far enough along to present some results for feedback and comparison with other models.

Here is the profile being used:
#!./simc 

druid=Druid_Feral_T11_372
level=85
race=tauren
use_pre_potion=1
professions=Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=000000000000000000002320322312011221202301020301000000000000000
glyphs=rip/shred/tigers_fury
actions=flask,type=winds
actions+=/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast
actions+=/mark_of_the_wild
actions+=/cat_form
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat
actions+=/feral_charge_cat,if=!in_combat
actions+=/auto_attack
actions+=/skull_bash_cat
actions+=/tigers_fury,if=energy<=26
actions+=/tolvir_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40
actions+=/mangle_cat,if=set_bonus.tier11_4pc_melee&(buff.t11_4pc_melee.stack<3|buff.t11_4pc_melee.remains<3)
actions+=/faerie_fire_feral,if=debuff.faerie_fire.stack<3|!(debuff.sunder_armor.up|debuff.expose_armor.up)
actions+=/mangle_cat,if=debuff.mangle.remains<=2&(!debuff.mangle.up|debuff.mangle.remains>=0.0)
actions+=/ravage,if=buff.stampede_cat.up&buff.stampede_cat.remains<=1
actions+=/berserk,if=time_to_max_energy>=2.0&!buff.tigers_fury.up&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>15
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=1&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=1&target.health_pct<=25
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health_pct<=25
actions+=/rip,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&target.time_to_die>=6&dot.rip.remains<2.0&(buff.berserk.up|dot.rip.remains<=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains)
actions+=/rake,if=target.time_to_die>=8.5&buff.tigers_fury.up&dot.rake.remains<9.0&(!dot.rake.ticking|dot.rake.multiplier<multiplier)
actions+=/rake,if=target.time_to_die>=dot.rake.remains&dot.rake.remains<3.0&(buff.berserk.up|energy>=71|(cooldown.tigers_fury.remains+0.8)>=dot.rake.remains)
actions+=/shred,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react
actions+=/savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=1&buff.savage_roar.remains<=1
actions+=/savage_roar,if=target.time_to_die>=9&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=12&@(dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains)<=3
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=(target.time_to_die<=4&buff.combo_points.stack>=5)|target.time_to_die<=1
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=level<=80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=8.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=4.0
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=level>80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=14.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=10.0
actions+=/shred,extend_rip=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=4&target.health_pct>25
actions+=/ravage,if=buff.stampede_cat.up&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react&buff.tigers_fury.up
actions+=/mangle_cat,if=set_bonus.tier11_4pc_melee&buff.t11_4pc_melee.stack<3
actions+=/shred,if=buff.combo_points.stack<=4&dot.rake.remains>3.0&dot.rip.remains>3.0&(time_to_max_energy<=2.0|(buff.berserk.up&energy>=20))
actions+=/shred,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3.0
actions+=/shred,if=target.time_to_die<=dot.rake.duration
actions+=/shred,if=buff.combo_points.stack=0&(buff.savage_roar.remains<=2.0|dot.rake.remains>=5.0)
actions+=/shred,if=!dot.rip.ticking|time_to_max_energy<=1.0
head=stormriders_headpiece,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=325agi_578sta_257crit_197hit_1439armor,reforge=crit_mastery,gems=fleet_shadowspirit_20agi_20hit_30agi,enchant=60agi_35haste
neck=necklace_of_strife,heroic=1,stats=215agi_322sta_143mastery_143haste,reforge=haste_exp
shoulders=stormriders_spaulders,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=266agi_429sta_171crit_191haste_1328armor,reforge=haste_mastery,gems=20agi_20hit_10agi,enchant=50agi_25mastery
chest=sark_of_the_unwatched,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=345agi_578sta_227crit_247mastery_1771armor,reforge=crit_exp,gems=67agi_20agi_20mastery_20mastery,enchant=20str_20agi_20sta_20int_20spi
waist=dispersing_belt,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=266agi_429sta_191haste_171crit_996armor,reforge=haste_mastery,gems=20agi_20hit_10agi_20agi
legs=stormriders_legguards,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=345agi_578sta_217crit_257mastery_1550armor,reforge=crit_exp,gems=20agi_20mastery_20agi_20hit_20agi,enchant=190ap_55crit
feet=storm_riders_boots,type=leather,stats=266agi_429sta_191mastery_171haste_1218armor,reforge=haste_exp,gems=67agi,enchant=50mastery
wrists=parasitic_bands,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=215agi_322sta_143crit_143mastery_775armor,reforge=crit_exp,gems=40agi,enchant=65haste
hands=stormriders_grips,heroic=1,type=leather,stats=266agi_429sta_191haste_171hit_1107armor,reforge=hit_mastery,gems=67agi_40agi_10haste,enchant=65mastery
finger1=lightning_conductor_band,heroic=1,stats=215agi_322sta_143crit_143hit,reforge=hit_mastery
finger2=lightning_conductor_band,stats=190agi_286sta_127crit_127hit,reforge=hit_mastery
trinket1=essence_of_the_cyclone,heroic=1,stats=363agi,equip=onattackhit_2178crit_10%_10dur_45cd
trinket2=prestors_talisman_of_machination,heroic=1,stats=363agi,equip=onattackhit_2178haste_10%_15dur_60cd
back=cloak_of_biting_chill,heroic=1,stats=215agi_322sta_143crit_143mastery_673armor,reforge=crit_exp,enchant=65crit
main_hand=malevolence,heroic=1,stats=385agi_578sta_257crit_257mastery,reforge=crit_hit,enchant=landslide,weapon=staff_2.40speed_1182min_2195max
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=20
# gear_agility=4861
# gear_stamina=5622
# gear_intellect=20
# gear_spirit=20
# gear_attack_power=190
# gear_expertise_rating=415
# gear_hit_rating=645
# gear_crit_rating=1482
# gear_haste_rating=720
# gear_mastery_rating=2064
# gear_armor=10857
# meta_gem=fleet_shadowspirit
# tier11_2pc_melee=1
# tier11_4pc_melee=1
# main_hand=malevolence,heroic=1,weapon=staff_2.40speed_1182min_2195max,enchant=landslide

Here's the html output: Druid_Feral_T11_372 - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code

The text format results:

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft release 4.0.3 ( iterations=100000, max_time=300, vary_combat_length=0.20, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )


*** Beta Release ***
 * Hunters: Not Yet Implemented.
 * Rogues: Only Mutilate has default actions.
 * Some other classes still need work.
 * Latency modeling needs updating.
 * BiS gear lists and action lists need verifying.
 * Some trinkets need their ICD checked.


DPS Ranking:
  20815 100.0%  Raid
  20831  100.0%  Druid_Feral_T11_372

Player: Druid_Feral_T11_372 tauren druid feral 85
  DPS: 20831.3  Error=3.4/0.0%  Range=2462/11.8%  DPR=1366.0  RPS-Out=15.3 RPS-In=15.0  Resource=(energy) Waiting=47.2 ApM=34.2
  Origin: input=Druid_Feral_T11_372.simc
  Talents: http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=11&tal=000000000000000000002320322312011221202301020301000000000000000
  Core Stats:  strength=703|121(20)  agility=6488|4946(4861)  stamina=6849|5849(5622)  intellect=191|182(20)  spirit=195|195(20)  mastery=19.51|19.51(2064)  health=106893|97843  mana=24400|24245
  Spell Stats:  power=199|172(0)  hit=6.30%|6.30%(645)  crit=15.41%|10.40%(1482)  penetration=0|0(0)  haste=10.90%|5.62%(720)  mp5=931|931(0)
  Attack Stats  power=17939|669(190)  hit=5.37%|5.37%(645)  crit=44.71%|30.96%(1482)  expertise=13.82|13.82(415)  haste=5.62%|5.62%(720)
  Defense Stats:  armor=14933|10857(10857)  blockv=0|0(0)  miss=4.70%|4.70%  dodge=27.74%|22.46%(0)  parry=0.00%|0.00%(0)  block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=5.90%|5.90%
  Glyphs: rip/shred/tigers_fury
  Priorities:
    flask,type=winds/food,type=seafood_magnifique_feast/mark_of_the_wild/cat_form
    snapshot_stats/tolvir_potion,if=!in_combat/feral_charge_cat,if=!in_combat
    auto_attack/skull_bash_cat/tigers_fury,if=energy<=26
    tolvir_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40
    mangle_cat,if=set_bonus.tier11_4pc_melee&(buff.t11_4pc_melee.stack<3|buff.t11_4pc_melee.remains<3)
    faerie_fire_feral,if=debuff.faerie_fire.stack<3|!(debuff.sunder_armor.up|debuff.expose_armor.up)
    mangle_cat,if=debuff.mangle.remains<=2&(!debuff.mangle.up|debuff.mangle.remains>=0.0)
    ravage,if=buff.stampede_cat.up&buff.stampede_cat.remains<=1
    berserk,if=time_to_max_energy>=2.0&!buff.tigers_fury.up&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>15
    ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=1&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=1&target.health_pct<=25
    ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health_pct<=25
    rip,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&target.time_to_die>=6&dot.rip.remains<2.0&(buff.berserk.up|dot.rip.remains<=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains)
    rake,if=target.time_to_die>=8.5&buff.tigers_fury.up&dot.rake.remains<9.0&(!dot.rake.ticking|dot.rake.multiplier<multiplier)
    rake,if=target.time_to_die>=dot.rake.remains&dot.rake.remains<3.0&(buff.berserk.up|energy>=71|(cooldown.tigers_fury.remains+0.8)>=dot.rake.remains)
    shred,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react
    savage_roar,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=1&buff.savage_roar.remains<=1
    savage_roar,if=target.time_to_die>=9&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=12&@(dot.rip.remains-buff.savage_roar.remains)<=3
    ferocious_bite,if=(target.time_to_die<=4&buff.combo_points.stack>=5)|target.time_to_die<=1
    ferocious_bite,if=level<=80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=8.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=4.0
    ferocious_bite,if=level>80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=14.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=10.0
    shred,extend_rip=1,if=dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=4&target.health_pct>25
    ravage,if=buff.stampede_cat.up&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react&buff.tigers_fury.up
    mangle_cat,if=set_bonus.tier11_4pc_melee&buff.t11_4pc_melee.stack<3
    shred,if=buff.combo_points.stack<=4&dot.rake.remains>3.0&dot.rip.remains>3.0&(time_to_max_energy<=2.0|(buff.berserk.up&energy>=20))
    shred,if=cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<=3.0
    shred,if=target.time_to_die<=dot.rake.duration
    shred,if=buff.combo_points.stack=0&(buff.savage_roar.remains<=2.0|dot.rake.remains>=5.0)
    shred,if=!dot.rip.ticking|time_to_max_energy<=1.0
  Actions:
    cat_melee       Count=379.2| 0.80sec  DPE=  3206|19%  DPET=  4022  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=4018  Miss=2.63%  Hit=2432|1514|3090  Crit= 4887| 3028| 6181|43.1%  Glance=1829|24.0%  Dodge=3.0%
    ferocious_bite  Count=  8.2|32.11sec  DPE= 32261| 4%  DPET= 31741  DPR= 608.3  pDPS= 875  Miss=2.63%  Hit=20015|2390|29696  Crit=40447| 4778|59393|65.5%  Dodge=3.0%
    fury_swipes     Count= 36.4| 8.23sec  DPE=  6879| 4%  DPET=     1  DPR=   0.0  pDPS= 828  Miss=2.64%  Hit=5080|4694|6387  Crit=10214| 9387|12774|40.7%  Dodge=3.1%
    mangle_cat      Count= 14.4|21.55sec  DPE=  9291| 2%  DPET=  8896  DPR= 290.0  pDPS= 443  Miss=2.65%  Hit=6837|6319|8416  Crit=13715|12639|16833|41.3%  Dodge=3.0%
    rake            Count= 24.6|12.35sec  DPE= 62099|24%  DPET= 59577  DPR=2005.7  pDPS=5045  Miss=2.62%  Hit=11158|10215|14449  Crit=22477|20430|28898|40.7%  Dodge=3.0%  TickCount=94  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=8593|7913|10909  CritTick=17298|15825|21817|43.0%
    ravage          Count=  1.0| 0.00sec  DPE= 28581| 0%  DPET= 28452  DPR=   0.0  pDPS=  94  Miss=2.63%  Hit=19847|16797|19982  Crit=39696|33594|39964|49.8%  Dodge=3.1%
    rip             Count= 11.0|22.60sec  DPE=156515|27%  DPET=151079  DPR=5757.5  pDPS=5668  Miss=2.68%  Dodge=3.0%  TickCount=144  MissTick=0.0%  Tick=8260|7558|10429  CritTick=16616|15116|20858|43.5%
    shred           Count= 83.4| 3.54sec  DPE= 14006|19%  DPET= 13395  DPR= 482.9  pDPS=3859  Miss=2.63%  Hit=10353|9807|12836  Crit=20791|19613|25672|40.6%  Dodge=3.0%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/blessing_of_kings/blessing_of_might/blessing_of_might_regen/cat_form/fortitude
  Constant Buffs: mark_of_the_wild/replenishment/t11_4pc_melee
  Dynamic Buffs:
    berserk                          : start=2.0  refresh=0.0   interval=196.7 trigger=196.7 uptime=10%
    bloodlust                        : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime=13%  benefit=12%
    combo_points                     : start=28.0 refresh=95.3  interval= 11.0 trigger=2.5   uptime=85%  benefit=91%
    essence_of_the_cyclone           : start=6.4  refresh=0.0   interval= 50.6 trigger=50.6  uptime=21%
    landslide_mh                     : start=6.6  refresh=0.0   interval= 49.1 trigger=49.1  uptime=26%  benefit=27%
    omen_of_clarity                  : start=20.8 refresh=0.2   interval= 13.9 trigger=13.8  uptime= 4%  benefit= 4%
    prestors_talisman_of_machination : start=5.0  refresh=0.0   interval= 65.7 trigger=65.7  uptime=24%
    primal_madness                   : start=13.2 refresh=0.0   interval= 23.5 trigger=23.5  uptime=32%
    savage_roar                      : start=3.0  refresh=6.6   interval=107.9 trigger=32.7  uptime=97%  benefit=97%
    stampede_cat                     : start=1.0  refresh=0.0   interval=  0.0 trigger=0.0   uptime= 2%  benefit= 0%
    tigers_fury                      : start=11.2 refresh=0.0   interval= 28.2 trigger=28.2  uptime=22%  benefit=22%
    tolvir_potion                    : start=2.0  refresh=0.0   interval=238.6 trigger=238.6 uptime=15%
  Up-Times:
      0.1% : energy_cap                    
     96.9% : rake                          
     95.2% : rip                           
  Procs:
     43.4 |   8.27sec : combo_points_wasted
     36.4 |   8.22sec : fury_swipes
     50.3 |   5.98sec : primal_fury
  Gains:
       165.4 : energy_refund  
      3441.7 : energy_regen   
       805.2 : omen_of_clarity
       263.1 : primal_madness   (overflow=8.4%)
       669.3 : tigers_fury    

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: Shadow Mastery/abominations_might/arcane_tactics/battle_shout/bleeding/blood_frenzy_bleed
  Constant: blood_frenzy_physical/communion/critical_mass/curse_of_elements/devotion_aura/earth_and_moon
  Constant: ebon_plaguebringer/elemental_oath/expose_armor/faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration/flametongue_totem
  Constant: horn_of_winter/hunters_mark/improved_icy_talons/infected_wounds/judgements_of_the_just/leader_of_the_pack
  Constant: mana_spring_totem/mangle/master_poisoner/moonkin/poisoned/rampage/savage_combat/strength_of_earth
  Constant: sunder_armor/thunder_clap/trueshot/unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    47.2% : Druid_Feral_T11_372

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 282962694
  MaxEventQueue = 21
  TargetHealth  = 7492223
  SimSeconds    = 30286184
  CpuSeconds    = 319.202
  SpeedUp       = 94881

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000302 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000010


#476 Odas

Odas

    Von Kaiser

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  • 86 posts

Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:16 PM

Althor,

I looked over the priority list and I have some questions and comments.

actions+=/berserk,if=time_to_max_energy>=2.0&!buff.tigers_fury.up&cooldown.tigers_fury.remains>15
Should berserk always be delayed for tiger's fury? What if tiger's fury has 14 seconds left on cooldown, should you hold berserk? What about times when the fight won't last 15 more seconds so you could get a berserk, but not a tiger's fury? At what time is the global cost of berserk not worth it (For example if you only have 2 seconds until the fight ends)?

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health_pct<=25
During execute, shouldn't you pool your energy to 70 for ferocious bites? I was under the impression that more energy is better for ferocious bites as long as you aren't sacrificing rake or rip uptime.

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=(target.time_to_die<=4&buff.combo_points.stack>=5)|target.time_to_die<=1
Is a 1 point ferocious bite better than a shred?

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=level<=80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=8.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=4.0
actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=level>80&buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.remains>=14.0&buff.savage_roar.remains>=10.0
Are those cutoff times for when the ferocious bite determined experimentally?

actions+=/ravage,if=buff.stampede_cat.up&!buff.omen_of_clarity.react&buff.tigers_fury.up
I do not believe you need to check for omen of clarity anymore. "Ravage! is no longer consuming Clearcasting when it is used, and is only benefiting from Stampede."

It might be easier to reference the code if there were line numbers if thats no too difficult to implement. Excellent work so far. I eagerly await the finished product.

#477 Althor

Althor

    Great Tiger

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  • 792 posts

Posted 03 December 2010 - 02:26 AM

The priority list is just a conversion of Mew's priority list. I have no particular understanding of how they came up with those numbers but it did Sim (in SimulationCraft) higher than our old one by around 200 DPS.

You do have a point about the clearcasting thing however. It's would seem likely that check is no longer required. SimulationCraft already models Ravage not consuming Clearcasting in the code after all.

#478 Yawning

Yawning

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:46 AM

@Althor: The results look a lot better now (One quick thing that will be a net gain is to use Enchant 2H - Mighty Agility instead of Landslide). I'll cross check the output/code some more and let you guys know if I find anything else.

Althor,

I looked over the priority list and I have some questions and comments.


I'm the one to blame for most of these, so I'll answer.

Should berserk always be delayed for tiger's fury? What if tiger's fury has 14 seconds left on cooldown, should you hold berserk? What about times when the fight won't last 15 more seconds so you could get a berserk, but not a tiger's fury? At what time is the global cost of berserk not worth it (For example if you only have 2 seconds until the fight ends)?


This is encounter duration dependent. The decision is almost entirely based on "will pushing back Berserk cause me to lose one at the tail end?", which for most encounter lengths is "no". Adding a check to see if remaining encounter length will be <= the TF cooldown + Beserk duration is a good idea though. The global cost will not be worth it the moment it costs you a yellow attack (At the tail end of the encounter, a Feral Druid is not global locked for the vast majority of the fight.), but the exact situation is rather unlikely.

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=buff.combo_points.stack>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health_pct<=25
During execute, shouldn't you pool your energy to 70 for ferocious bites? I was under the impression that more energy is better for ferocious bites as long as you aren't sacrificing rake or rip uptime.


I haven't been able to get a net gain by doing this yet. The window you have for pooling (at least as of 4.0.1, have not rechecked yet) is somewhat smaller than you may expect since the Glyph of Shred was not being reset by Ferocious Bite. Getting to 5 cps, and pooling as high as you dare while avoiding Rip falling off due to a freak miss streak and ensuring Rake has a high uptime is a bit much for 16 seconds of time. Possible room for improvement perhaps but I don't see it as all that likely at a T11 gear point.

actions+=/ferocious_bite,if=(target.time_to_die<=4&buff.combo_points.stack>=5)|target.time_to_die<=1
Is a 1 point ferocious bite better than a shred?


Nope, though a 1 point bite that you can cast is better than a Shred that you can't. My quick and dirty attempts to change this conditional all sim slightly lower. There is room for improvement here, though the difference is minor.

Are those cutoff times for when the ferocious bite determined experimentally?


Yes they were.

I do not believe you need to check for omen of clarity anymore. "Ravage! is no longer consuming Clearcasting when it is used, and is only benefiting from Stampede."


Hmmm. Which is more likely, "OoC procing in the global after a Ravage" or "Ending up pushing back Ravage too far and losing the TF benefit if there was one"? If it's the former, then the code should still check OoC (There's a fallback conditional to prevent Stampede not being consumed entirely, so this is purely a matter of wasting an OoC proc). If it's the latter, then Ravage should be used regardless of OoC (Modifying my script suggests the check should remain, but the differential between the two is not statistically significant.).




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