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The Future of Crafting (Nether Vortex)


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#1 XI-

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 05:41 PM

Now blizzard had said that they would allow crafting/pvp/raiding to progress at about the same rates. The first tier of crafting is easy, it just requires things you can solo. The second tier is a little harder with primal nethers, it requires you to run many, many non-heroic level 70 instances since the drop rate is so low, or to run a much smaller number of heroic instances.

The burning question was, where does the item for the third upgrades (nether vortex) come from. I guess now we know.

We got one on the trash right before hydross, before our first kill, haven't gotten another one yet.


http://forums.worldo...=79823960&sid=1

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Which brings us to an interesting point. If you look at the item it's soulbound, and so are the craftable pieces. So you couldn't pay a raider to make you the item, nor could you make the item if you weren't in a high end raiding guild. Doesn't this kind of defeat the point.

#2 Guest_Alhena_*

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:22 PM

I think the point of the smithing weapons is not quite what you think it is.

The idea is not to let non-raiders get high quality weapons by soloing. The idea is to let a blacksmith stay 1 tier ahead of the content he is doing.

Solo farm for an 81 dps one-hander, when the very best you can get without Heroics or raids is 71.x. Heroic 5-man for an 88 dps onehander; the best you can get from heroics or karazan are mid-70s to mid 80s, depending on where you're going.

Non-raiders won't craft the tier 3. I think most people will get the second tier eventually, but the third tier is in the game I think specifically so that smiths don't start raiding and go "oh, well, that smithing weapon was pretty good, but I see raid drops have outdone it. /vendor"


The first and second tiers are both awesome weapons, and if you aren't progressing through raiding, an 88 dps one-hander will give you everything you need.

#3 thebuddha

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:25 PM

Which brings us to an interesting point. If you look at the item it's soulbound, and so are the craftable pieces. So you couldn't pay a raider to make you the item, nor could you make the item if you weren't in a high end raiding guild. Doesn't this kind of defeat the point.


I thought the point was to reward people for having a crafting profession. Previously it was useless to have them since you could just gather the mats for whatever item you wanted and trade them to someone who could.

With Nethers there are both BoE and BoP crafting recipes, it might be too early to tell if all recipes that require Vortexes are BoP.

#4 Praetorian

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:27 PM

Yeah, it's no different from how you if you are too incompetent to do Heroics, you can't pay someone else to upgrade your first-level weapon to its second form.

#5 vorda

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:36 PM

Yeah, it's no different from how you if you are too incompetent to do Heroics, you can't pay someone else to upgrade your first-level weapon to its second form.


Well, you could actually. I know of someone who got a guild group together to clear all but the final boss of some heroic instance (forgot which one) to swap out a group member for some unguilded blacksmith who wanted to upgrade his weapon. (I suppose)
He wouldnt ive numbers, but I'm sure they got some nice gold out of it aswell.

Anyway, your point still stands of course, as this is in no way different from selling BWL loot.

#6 Zyla

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 06:37 PM

iso rewards for engineering- well beyond getting yelled at when I forget the repair bot for the 15th time.

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That's right, I met my future wife through Zyla. :shudder:


#7 Dendory

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 07:00 PM

I don't recall them ever saying they want crafting to be a competitive end game progress road. They did say that for PvP, and I think it will manifest itself as upgraded Arena gear between seasons. But other than a couple of nice recipes, I don't think crafting is going to keep pace with raiding. For example in tailoring you can do everything solo or in single groups, and I doubt we will see new higher end recipes being introduced on a regular basis.

#8 Kazanir

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 07:59 PM

I had assumed that all these recipes were examples of BoE's that can be made by raiding crafters with Nether Vortices and then sold to the plebian masses:

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36349
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36351
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36352
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36353

This is mostly speculation on my part, informed primarily by the fact that none of them are "upgrades" from the previous BoP leatherworking sets (like the blacksmithing BoP upgrades), and none of them follow the BoP sets naming styles.

Of course, until someone finds any of those recipes...

#9 csulok

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:14 PM

This is mostly speculation on my part, informed primarily by the fact that none of them are "upgrades" from the previous BoP leatherworking sets (like the blacksmithing BoP upgrades), and none of them follow the BoP sets naming styles.

Of course, until someone finds any of those recipes...


there are no craftable items to my recollection that uses bop items to create boe item. i highly doubt anything will be different here.
correct me if i'm wrong though...

#10 Dwargue

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:20 PM

there are several BoE items that require BoP mats.

personally, i'm gathering up some mats for
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23542

there's several others in the blacksmithing lineup that require the exact same mats, for various BoE epics.

#11 Auxilium

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:22 PM

Pre-TBC, there was the Skin of Shadows that was required for at least one (Shifting Cloak) BoE item, which used to be BoP.

However, did they not change Skin of Shadows to be BoE in one of the last patches?

#12 Ashiya

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:38 PM

I don't remember Skin of Shadows ever being BoE really.

#13 Dwargue

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:41 PM

as far as i can remember, Skin of shadow was always BoP, but they did change it in one of the patches so that mobs can drop the skin, rather than only having the clicky-pickup from the lady, given you the *potential* to pick up several skin of shadow in one scholo run.

#14 Falk

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 08:44 PM

there are no craftable items to my recollection that uses bop items to create boe item. i highly doubt anything will be different here.
correct me if i'm wrong though...


There are many. In fact, as of now, I can make:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29724
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29729
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29733
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29732
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29734
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29728
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29731

They all require a Primal Nether each.

Anyway, without further discussion about the amount of time and $$$ I've spent on the AH, my general impression for BOP materials --> BOE items is as stated earlier in the thread; so that there's a reason to actually have various different professions in the raid and not a set of herb/alch clones.

As to Primal Nether/Nether Vortex, this reminds me a little of how MC fire resist crafting mats dropped in MC, and helped the guild prepare for Ragnaros. Instead of resist gear though, these are general gear upgrades for your raid should you have the relevant profession and recipes in the raid force.

Selling it to the casual crowd? I'm sure it'll come about sooner or later (just like people selling FR on the trade channel late in WoW 1.0's lifetime) but at the rate Nether Vortexes are dropping, (seeing as we've only now heard of them yet ~10 have killed Hydross), I'd say the recipes that require them are going to be in-guild deals for quite some time.

#15 Rule

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 09:53 PM

To me, the advantage of craftable weps for smiths, is that you don't have to rely on the random luck factor of instance drops to be effective, since a warrior or rogue without a good weapon is far less effective than one with a good weapon. I'm reminded of the fact of seeing 3 rag weapons in 11 months of killing him, and seeing 2 ashkandi's from nef in 6 months of killing him.

I was just thinking of asking if DNT was seeing those drop yet, since most guilds will need upwards of 60 of them, if they have at least 3 smiths. Sounds like they need to be a bit more common a drop...

#16 Praetorian

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 09:57 PM

To me, the advantage of craftable weps for smiths, is that you don't have to rely on the random luck factor of instance drops to be effective, since a warrior or rogue without a good weapon is far less effective than one with a good weapon. I'm reminded of the fact of seeing 3 rag weapons in 11 months of killing him, and seeing 2 ashkandi's from nef in 6 months of killing him.

I was just thinking of asking if DNT was seeing those drop yet, since most guilds will need upwards of 60 of them, if they have at least 3 smiths. Sounds like they need to be a bit more common a drop...

Well they may have much more common sources later on that haven't been discovered. What we may be seeing now might be the equivalent of looking at the level 2 smith BoPs if your only source of Primal Nethers was non-heroic instances.

#17 Exewut

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:27 PM

I had assumed that all these recipes were examples of BoE's that can be made by raiding crafters with Nether Vortices and then sold to the plebian masses:

http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36349
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36351
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36352
http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=36353

This is mostly speculation on my part, informed primarily by the fact that none of them are "upgrades" from the previous BoP leatherworking sets (like the blacksmithing BoP upgrades), and none of them follow the BoP sets naming styles.

Of course, until someone finds any of those recipes...


There is no word on what kind of stats these belts have right? Or if they are even in-game?

#18 Falk

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:49 PM

There is no word on what kind of stats these belts have right? Or if they are even in-game?


Come to think of it, where would the recipe come from? Naxxramas-Blacksmith-Dude v2?

#19 RK

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Posted 04 March 2007 - 10:56 PM

Interesting that it's a trash drop, even a rare one. Other than the keying requirements, it would raise the prospect of SSR trash-farming expeditions (just as people used to farm MC trash for cores once upon a time).

#20 Zerix

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Posted 05 March 2007 - 04:46 AM

If I remember Tseric's post from awhile back he said, "People would be well into their Tier5 before acquiring their 3rd crafted weapon". This led me to believe that they would be dropping in Tempest Keep. Pretty interesting you got them off random trash in SS. Interesting to see how this pans out.




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