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RealID soon to apply to all forum posts, other upcoming official forum improvements


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#41 Duilliath

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:21 PM

Because from a business stand-point it doesn't matter who doesn't want to use the service, it just matters who does, the people willing to use it are what they're going to focus on, and from those people they can attract more people and make more money.


But isn't it exactly the people *posting* on the forums that are supposed to use this brand spanking new spiffy Blizzard toy? The silent majority that doesn't post... well, they didn't post to start with. As such, they fall out of the scope of implementing that change. Even MVPs are stating they do not appreciate that change and those are the ones that are using Blizzard's forums for its main purpose.
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#42 Antiphonal

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:21 PM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.


Any career where the employee represents the seriousness and trustworthiness of the employer. Sales being one, law being another. For people in these fields, everything they post with their real names should be about their field, on well-known and well-respected blogs and review sites. If an employer _knows_ that their clients will Google representatives, they cannot hire someone who does not have a squeaky-clean and "serious" online image.

Heck, I was _almost_ found out because I had an article covering statistical analysis published in a online webmag. Was I proud at the time? Of course. But the webmag was about a hobby that is usually not considered "serious" or "professional." Good thing it was noticed after I was hired. In the competitive market I am in it could have sunk my chances.

And that was a published article with solid math and favorable feedback. Just think of standard PvP trashtalk or guild recruitment posts. Not a chance.

EDIT:

Most employers want work-a-holics. They say they don't, because eventually their productivity suffers. But they do. For example, most employers, if they could get away with it, would discriminate against someone that was married and has children. Single guys won't complain about dental coverage, can stay later more often, won't be distracted because of XYZ home issue, whatever.

If an employer finds out that you have a hobby that you do for many hours each day, that is scheduled in such a way that it might interfere with working late, that _might_ occupy your time with non-work issues, well.... what do you think they would do? Unless they really want YOU and ONLY YOU, they will move to the next guy. They can't pry into your personal life in an interview - it's against the law. But they can google you.

#43 Tinwhisker

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:27 PM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.


Anyone working in a contract service industry. The most obvious of which is the legal industry but it could apply just about anywhere.

Let's pretend I'm a lawyer and I play WoW for fun on the weekends and post on the RP forums. Now anyone who uses search engines to look for a lawyer or check my references will see someone with my name posting as a drunken Dwarf hanging out in a bar. Do you want me to be your lawyer now?

And of course Antiphonal's edit.

#44 Malleus

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:30 PM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.


It's not necessarily the nature of his career that would cause the ruination of it. If your employer finds out you've spent two hours a day posting on the Blizzard forums when you should have been working, I don't doubt that your ass wouldn't bounce before it was through the door. Certain comments are also inappropriate for certain jobs - stating that you'd do Miley Cyrus won't raise many eyebrows while everyone assumes you're a dumb teenager like half the WoW forumites are, but it isn't going to go down well if it comes out that you're 37 and teach high school. However, I can't think of a way in which anyone finding out you were posting on the WoW forums could jeopardise your career without it being your fault that it's in jeopardy.

#45 Morthoul

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:37 PM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.


Well here's a humor thread I made, associating the Twilight Cutter ability with Twilight and razor blades:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Twilight Cutter! Omg! (Strat included!)

I'd never post that under my real name. I can't say it would "destroy" my career, but it could only cause harm.

#46 Chirality

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 11:43 PM

My suspicion is that a lot of the people who don't outright cancel their subscriptions and boycott Blizzard in disgust (which is the tone of a lot of the vitriol coming out of the community) will flee to non-official community sites like EJ/Shadowpriest.com/Maintankadin to get their gameplay support. The trolling on the official forums will die out, and in that case it'll be a success, but I think the sites that allow players to maintain a sense of anonymity will see a large increase in traffic as a result of this.


Honestly, the trolling on the official forums is really not that bad, anyways. To borrow a recent phrase from US political 'discourse': it's like using a nuclear weapon to kill an ant. This strongly reminds me of the decision to not implement chat rooms for BNet2.0 for SCII was made "to prevent spamming".

To give another anecdote about identity theft just based on name alone: two hours ago I got a call on my office phone (which I never, ever use) from a collection agency hired by the Federal Department of Education. They asked if I was person X (same very unique first and last name, different middle name), with a social security number of Y (wrong), a birthdate of Z (wrong), with these parents from this town (wrong), that had attended the same University as I, and that this person was in default on his student loans since 2007. I have no idea how my last name came to be attached to this person's Department of Education loan information, but MY full name, work email, and work phone number can be easily determined (or at least, narrowed down to about 3 people) by just my FIRST name plus the University I attended. Scary stuff.

#47 EasirokThunderpants

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:01 AM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.


I happen to be a highly visible software consultant and trainer for a widely recognized and trusted firm. Chances are pretty good that if you are in my field, then at some point you have probably read an article, book, or blog posting by myself or at least one of my coworkers. And I can bet that at least some of the people reading these forums use software that I have played some part in creating.

And saying that much is probably giving away far too much information about me.

Based on the people I have met in game over the years, I would guess that a sizable number of players have similar situations, although the details will obviously differ.

Had the recruiter ever suspected that I play WoW for hours a day, I would never have gotten past the initial screening and wouldn't even have this job. And now that I work for said firm, my success is dependent upon me remaining an authority figure in my focus area... when people google my name they need to see the articles and blog entries and whitepapers I have contributed to... not my opinions on gear stats for fantasy heroes in a video game.

There is a reason I chose "Singed" for my mage's name, and "Dreadfury" for my death knight... not so much because I like to roleplay, but because I have no desire to blend my real life identity with the fantasy identity I chose for my *video game* characters.

#48 davek

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:02 AM

I've seen this objection from a number of people now, and I'm curious: what sorts of careers would be destroyed by someone finding out you played WoW? I'm not doubting that such a career exists, I'm just having trouble coming up with an example personally.

A Google search is pretty common practice in HR now and the fora will likely continue to be indexed. There's been more than a few stories about companies eliminating candidates with MMO attachments from consideration entirely over the last few years because of the belief, rightly or wrongly, that they'll be poor performers productivity wise.

This is more of a concern for folks who don't exactly have common names although if you've created a paper trail of characters to your name via, say, Facebook/Blog/etc posts you're gonna be easy to piece together for someone who really wants to do so.

#49 chrisb3

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:13 AM

This is going to be canceled.

We have several million internet users with a point to prove and a handful of blue posters giving us their IRL names and spouting the company line.

The first sacrificial blue lamb already had his home address, phone number and family members found out. He seems to have taken his Facebook down too.

It will be Blizzard employees who will get this canceled because they won't even be able to log into their own forums without their whole lives being data mined.
We aren't talking about one or two guys at the top who wouldn't have gotten there if their secrets where hanging around on the internet, this is every single employee and at least some will get linked to embarrassing things.

#50 Tinwhisker

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:26 AM

The first sacrificial blue lamb already had his home address, phone number and family members found out. He seems to have taken his Facebook down too.


Drysc (Bashiok) said it wasn't him but even if it wasn't, then some poor schmuck was the potential target there. Is that really any better? Getting the wrong person?

#51 Carebare

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:31 AM

Just to address the onslaught of reports that will originate from this thread:

The idea of merging RealID into the Blizzard forums is dumb. The more places that say it's dumb the better (which includes here). If your post violates our forum rules we will infract you for it, but the do not whine rule is waived for this thread only. Carry on.

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#52 Tinwhisker

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:50 AM

The idea of merging RealID into the Blizzard forums is dumb.


This pretty much sums the whole thing up. All that's left to post is examples of why it's dumb and whining about it.

For my own whine, I signed up to play a game and immerse myself in fantasy, not play "World of Facebook." If WoW had originally come shipped as a "social gaming network" or whatever crap that means, I would have probably said no.

er...

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By the way, have any of the social sites ever turned a profit?

#53 Entropie

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:55 AM

While I absolutely disagree with the implementation, I do agree with some of the thoughts behind it. "Anonymous" brings out the worst in people, I'm a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their actions and "Anonymous" prevents that. While this RealID-thingy will overshoot it's target, I would - on an ethical/philosophical level - appreciate something that will remove some of the negative effects of "Anonymous". I don't want my personal information to be available for everyone though.


While I understand that it's not solely there to fight trolling - see the deal Blictivison made with Facebook - it has a part in it.
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#54 Tyrian

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:57 AM

This puts many Guild Recruitment Officers in awkward situations. If you wish to recruit for your guild via the official forums, well congratulations, Real ID is no longer optional. "But its optional to post on the forums?" If it's optional, then why do the people who don't want to use this feature have to tip-toe around it, and be disadvantaged for doing so?

Anyone who is responsible for guild recruitment, especially in raiding guilds, knows: not everyone who fails a trial, gets gkicked, or doesn't get offered a ginvite takes it nicely. What to do? Simply refer back to the guilds forum recruitment post for the full name of the person responsible for inviting you.

There must be lots of Guild Recruitment Officers out there thinking right now, "I don't wish to use Real ID, so how the hell am I going to recruit for my guild in Cataclysm?". And no, simply saying recruiting can instead be done on another non-official forum is not an acceptable answer. Of course it can, but people shouldn't be forced to do so, because they wish to avoid a 'totally optional and voluntary' feature.

#55 Darkside

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:00 AM

While I absolutely disagree with the implementation, I do agree with some of the thoughts behind it. "Anonymous" brings out the worst in people, I'm a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their actions and "Anonymous" prevents that. While this RealID-thingy will overshoot it's target, I would - on an ethical/philosophical level - appreciate something that will remove some of the negative effects of "Anonymous". I don't want my personal information to be available for everyone though.


While I understand that it's not solely there to fight trolling - see the deal Blictivison made with Facebook - it has a part in it.


There are plenty of other ways to fight trolls though. As an example, look at the very forums you are posting in. Elitist Jerks has essentially 0 trolls and has been that way for many years thanks to aggressive moderation. If their goal was really to eliminate trolls and flaming, they'd just hire 20 fulltime moderators to aggressively account-ban people till everyone got the idea. It would take a couple months, tops.

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#56 kenlyric

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:01 AM

While I absolutely disagree with the implementation, I do agree with some of the thoughts behind it. "Anonymous" brings out the worst in people, I'm a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their actions and "Anonymous" prevents that. While this RealID-thingy will overshoot it's target, I would - on an ethical/philosophical level - appreciate something that will remove some of the negative effects of "Anonymous". I don't want my personal information to be available for everyone though.


While I understand that it's not solely there to fight trolling - see the deal Blictivison made with Facebook - it has a part in it.


Having a single ID that shows up no matter what character you are playing or posting on does much the same, without placing you at risk of somebody getting mad that you ganked them and coming to your netcafe to stab you in the heart.

Art has a very easily understandable value - what you can sell it for.

you're liable to secretly be on IRC with the Chucklefuck Brigade, typing furiously about how hilarious it is when people have serious discussions.


#57 Ellyh

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:07 AM

I wonder if Blizzard has really done thier legal homework on this one. While I assume thier lawyers have checked the US law status this is an international game and the effectivly do business in these other contries as well and there are many different laws to consider especially arround the protection of minors.

Given that thier forum software is presumably going to be located in 1-2 monolithic blocks how do they handle the differing legal requirements of the over 30 countries that have at least semi-official status on the forums. Off the top of the head that includes:

France, UK, US, Canada, Australia, Russia, Germany, Korea. If you try to tell me that all these countries privacy laws and protection of minors laws line up I will be very very suppriesed.

#58 ildon

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:08 AM

Having a single ID that shows up no matter what character you are playing or posting on does much the same, without placing you at risk of somebody getting mad that you ganked them and coming to your netcafe to stab you in the heart.


And, ironically, provides way more accountability than common names like "John Smith".

#59 Tinwhisker

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:09 AM

While I absolutely disagree with the implementation, I do agree with some of the thoughts behind it. "Anonymous" brings out the worst in people, I'm a firm believer in people taking responsibility for their actions and "Anonymous" prevents that. While this RealID-thingy will overshoot it's target, I would - on an ethical/philosophical level - appreciate something that will remove some of the negative effects of "Anonymous". I don't want my personal information to be available for everyone though.


I think everyone would be fine with that (using some common handle, not using real names), using real names takes the consequences for posting and turns them from "in game" consequences like being banned or having another player dislike you and turns them into real life consequences.

People would not play a video game if it had real life consequences. There are like a thousand B movies that prove this point.

#60 PandemicXTC

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 01:13 AM

Elitist Jerks has essentially 0 trolls and has been that way for many years thanks to aggressive moderation.


Blizzard can't do this because they are dealing with paying CUSTOMERS. Elitist Jerks is not, so they can boot you out of their house and call you out for being a clown.

The only solution to the signal/noise ratio problem that seems plausible is some sort of Slashdot/Dig-like system where quality posts rise to the top rather than giving the best screen real estate to the fastest people to the reply button.




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