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[Elemental] Cataclysm changes collected (updated: 10/08/22)


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#21 Rouncer

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 01:42 PM

I confirmed the values at level 82 yesterday. Now my beta shaman is 83 and I can confirm all the values on that table at 83 as well. They are a little off when you get to the hundredths but close enough to be rounding discrepancies.

#22 Lucitron

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:15 AM

New beta-patch and new talents. However, by all appearance there is nothing new under the sun for Elemental (Enhancement got Frozen Power back). The biggest change is that Elemental Devestation was finally moved to Enhancement, and in return Elemental got Ancestral Knowledge. In the end we are talking about the same cookie cutter build as before (32/7/2), except from having 3 points in Ancestral Knowledge, you will now have 3 points in Improved Shield.

Addendum #2:
Actually, the biggest change is that Ancestral Swiftness is gone. Temporarily or for good? Who knows. However, this means that the new cookie cutter build is either 34/2/5 to maximize survivability, or 37/2/2 to boost your mana regeneration.

EDIT:
Ancestral Swiftness is not gone.
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#23 tufy

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:34 AM

It might be a bug or it might be something else. Namely, the talent was so powerful that it was pretty much a must-have for all specs, forcing everyone 7 points into enhancement. If it's removed (which could mean that Ghost Wolf might end up instant by default), that gives us more freedom in specs.

In fact, I went at the talent trees with assumption that it was indeed removed and ended up with a 37/2/2 build - I could even see people going 39/2/0.
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#24 Lucitron

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:29 AM

It might be a bug or it might be something else. Namely, the talent was so powerful that it was pretty much a must-have for all specs, forcing everyone 7 points into enhancement.


Ancestral Swiftness is good, but I doubt it could be called a must-have. I would rather say that it is the combination of Elemental Weapons + Ancestral Swiftness that wins in comparison to what further points in Elemental or Restoration would offer.

Now, if Ancestral Swiftness is removed then it would actually open up for slightly more combinations. You mention 37/2/2, while personally I would say that 34/2/5 looks quite tempting. If we don't have any problems with mana, then you would maximize your survivability through getting Elemental Warding, Ancestral Resolve and Spark of Life.
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#25 tufy

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:28 AM

Yes, Elemental Weapons are a strong reason we went in there, but Ancestral Swiftness basically provided double the movement speed increase of the feet enchant, plus 40% speed increase for long runs (ghost wolf indoors = + movement in raid). I'd call that pretty much a must-have :P

I totally forgot about Spark of Life, though, thanks for reminding me.
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#26 masanbol

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:02 PM

Ancestral Swiftness is good, but I doubt it could be called a must-have. I would rather say that it is the combination of Elemental Weapons + Ancestral Swiftness that wins in comparison to what further points in Elemental or Restoration would offer.

Now, if Ancestral Swiftness is removed then it would actually open up for slightly more combinations. You mention 37/2/2, while personally I would say that 34/2/5 looks quite tempting. If we don't have any problems with mana, then you would maximize your survivability through getting Elemental Warding, Ancestral Resolve and Spark of Life.


It's somewhat hard to quantify, but a movement speed increase along the lines of Ancestral Swiftness is definitely a DPS increase when put in the context of current fight mechanics (and presumably fight mechanics in Cataclysm). Any amount of time spent moving is time not DPSing, and while 15% increased speed doesn't seem like much for a single moment of movement, it adds up over the course of a fight or an instance.

Given our issues with movement and DPS, I hope it returns (or becomes baseline).

#27 Lucitron

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:51 AM


Ancestral Swiftness was not removed. Sorry for any confusion. It is still in the second tier of Enhancement, available to all.

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [GHOSTWOLF] What happened to my instant??? :(


Conclusion: 32/7/2-build should be once again the cookie-cutter.
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#28 draconis0101

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:02 AM

Just thought to post this, they changed the 6th tier talent into Feedback. 3 points will get you 3 seconds knocked off of elemental mastery after every lightning bolt or chain lightning.

#29 frmorrison

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:18 AM

# Feedback - Your Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning spells reduce the remaining cooldown on your Elemental Mastery talent by 1/2/3 sec.(Tier 6) This replacing Shamanism (now that is base)

# Elemental Mastery - No longer shares a cooldown with Nature's Swiftness. When activated, your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning or Lava Burst spell becomes an instant cast spell. In addition, your Fire, Frost, and Nature damage is increased by 15% and you gain 20% spell haste for 15 sec.

This is similar to the Tier 10 bonus, so helps the rotation becomes more interesting.

#30 Bonosaur

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:42 PM

Has anyone looked into the way we're supposed to do AoE dmg in Cataclysm?

If you take into account that Earthquake can only be channeled for 10seconds, while it has a 15second cooldown, we'll have a 5second window to fill with other spells.
Does this mean we'll still be using Magma Totem and Fire Nova? Or is there still something to come that will encourage us into Chain Lightnings and (FS) Lava Bursts? The final option is that a glyph will be realsed to remove the CD (and quite possibly knockdown) of Earthquake.

I'm worried that we'll still be expected to be using Magma Totem. As this would mean that in alot of cases the 35yd range on Earthquake would be pointless. Since we'll need to go drop Magma totem (+ Fire nova) before casting our Earthquake.


Edit: Personally I feel that Blizzard has chosen a very wierd moment to add Earthquake. The community has nagged about it since Vanilla and at the point where we least need it (thanks to the changes to Magma Totem and Fire Nova) its suddenly thrown in our lap. I would've been much happier with a new spell being added to our rotation (or new spell to be used while moving).

#31 MightRecruitment

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 09:57 PM

Basically as long as we can use Magma Totem, we're going to have to be balanced relative to other casters assuming we do use it.

Since it ticks passively while we do whatever else, and we have some filler time between Earthquakes anyway, the optimal AoE stat (for many targets that aren't going to die inside of 1 earthquake anyway) is going to be to ghost wolf in, drop Magma, Earthquake, then during those 5 sec before the next earthquake, fill in with Fire Nova, chain lightning, etc.

For 2-3 targets, it seems the ideal will just to do normal single-target rotations, but also hit CL on cooldown. AoE (for all classes) is becoming prohibitively expensive, and the damage has been cut drastically relative to what we see on live. So it's likely they want you to CC things and single-target much more often, rather than AoE being the optimal strategy for 3+ targets, like it all too often is now.

#32 tufy

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 12:25 PM

I would've been much happier with a new spell being added to our rotation (or new spell to be used while moving).[/I]


You mean, something like Unleash Elements? :D

Anyway, I'd consider Earthquake as our counterpart to Blizzard and Magma Totem + Fire Nova as our counterpart to Flamestrike, thus ideally used together for maximum damage output. I agree with MightRecruitment above, though - as long as we can use Magma Totem, we'll be balanced around it. This means that the two issues related to our AoE will be the fact that Magma is melee (we need a way to put it down at range) and the fact that Improved Fire Nova shortens cooldown by too little to actually influence the amount of Fire Novas in our rotation. Alternatively, Blizzard could look at Hot Streak example for solution (read: Earthquake talent could shut down our ability to cast Magma Totem; that way we couldn't use both AoEs at once, allowing devs to properly balance Earthquake).
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#33 Rukak

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 01:59 PM

You mean, something like Unleash Elements? :D

Anyway, I'd consider Earthquake as our counterpart to Blizzard and Magma Totem + Fire Nova as our counterpart to Flamestrike, thus ideally used together for maximum damage output. I agree with MightRecruitment above, though - as long as we can use Magma Totem, we'll be balanced around it. This means that the two issues related to our AoE will be the fact that Magma is melee (we need a way to put it down at range) and the fact that Improved Fire Nova shortens cooldown by too little to actually influence the amount of Fire Novas in our rotation. Alternatively, Blizzard could look at Hot Streak example for solution (read: Earthquake talent could shut down our ability to cast Magma Totem; that way we couldn't use both AoEs at once, allowing devs to properly balance Earthquake).


I was under the impression that Earthquake is balanced more around its ability to interrupt/knockdown than our ability to cast a magma totem before channeling? To use your analogy is Blizzard balanced around Flamestrike?
Not being in beta I can't comment on the current state of abilities and balance, but as things stand I can see small pack AE 3-4 mobs (if no cc needed) being Magma, Chain Lightning and Fire Nova where the Improved Fire Nova talent can be useful.
Large packs Magma and channeled Earthquake which effectively locks us from using Fire Nova in it's improved state. They have afterall put in AE dmg limits?
I wouldn't be surprised to see Improved Fire Nova and Call of Flame somehow getting combined at some point and if they did i'd suggest a single point talent to augment Earthquake that placed a magma totem in the centre of the channeled target area. That would mean we had a high dmg targeted channeled ae with no movement needed.
Hmm, thinking about it a glyph to augment Earthquake would be preferable, as that would be easier to alter per encounter as less other fire totem conflicts.

#34 Waterbottle

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:51 PM

The tooltip on Earthquake says it has a daze effect now instead of knock-down. Is this correct?
And as a side note to that, it takes AE kiting to new heights along with Earth binding totem.
Not to mention AE grinding together with magma totem and impGhostwolf

#35 Tormirian

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 11:43 AM

Is it just a bug or Eye of the Storm no more lower casting time on Lava Burst?

//EDIT: Thanks Jessamy for correcting me ^^

#36 Rahdik

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 05:31 PM

Wont Lava Surge and Feedback present the same problem that the original 2p and 4pT10 set bonuses did? One encourages more LB/CL while the other encourages more LvB.

#37 Jeeru

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 08:55 PM

I don't think that that will be a huge concern. It keeps the talent tree buffing LvB so it's a spell you want to cast, while Feedback allows our only selfish buff a chance to be better without lowering the cooldown to match other classes. It makes the priority system evolve over a period of gearing, and barring it fully evolving from a FS -> LvB -> LB till LvB comes up, it makes it a bit more of a dynamic system for the LB's in between the LvB's.

#38 masanbol

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 01:11 AM

Is it just a bug or Eye of the Storm no more lower casting time on Lava Burst?

//EDIT: Thanks Jessamy for correcting me ^^


This post is correct. Just noticed that LvB no longer has any cast time reduction from talents or passives in the current beta build, putting its effective cast time at 2 seconds, up from 1.5.

Base damage was increased slightly, from 1323-1685 on live to 1385-1748 on the current beta build (although this number could be fudged slightly, as gear and talents seem to be affecting the damage value shown, and I got the beta damage value with no gear, but fully talented).

More information as I do some testing, but this seems a pretty important change if it's intentional.

#39 Zamo

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 03:45 PM

I've got a question regarding Unleash Weapon and Flameshock:
If you use UW (Flametongue ofc) and cast a Flameshock, does only the initial damage or the initial and the periodic damage benefit from UW-effect?

#40 masanbol

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 01:16 AM

I've got a question regarding Unleash Weapon and Flameshock:
If you use UW (Flametongue ofc) and cast a Flameshock, does only the initial damage or the initial and the periodic damage benefit from UW-effect?


Currently it only affects the direct damage portion of the spell, not the DoT, which means Unleash Elements should be used exclusively for LvB.




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