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[Enhancement] Cataclysm Beta Changes (updated 11/4/10)


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#21 davek

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:46 AM

They had talked about making some changes so that it would be easier for the healers to get to the hit talents in order to enable them to feed things like Telluric Currents so I'm wondering if shifting AK and axing AS like that is how they're enabling that need for Resto. Now they could still slap two points into EW without having AS to demand them delving deeper into the Enhancement tree to make Imp Shields optional. Meanwhile, if you were expecting that all the Specs were going to grab it anyways, you just bake instant GW into the spell, make it indoor usable, and see if you can call it a day WRT mobility issues on the expectation that being able to form shift balances out the loss of the baseline run speed overall.

Elemental Weapons, Primal Strikes, and Improved Shields all on the same level is kinda messy though I expect it might make for interesting choices if the Mastery were to remain Nature Damage. As the expansion runs and stats inflate, one suspects there's a breakpoint where the increased Nature Damage/Swing Speed and Static Shock might cause some discussion.

#22 Levva

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:57 AM

One thing I've not seen ANY talk of and I'd like someone in beta to have a look at is how our Feral Spirits scale. Today in WotLK they get 31% of our AP - 61% with FS glyph. However their OWN AP comes from 2xStrength!! ie: buff them with strength boosts their AP. Can anyone confirm if this is still the case and if so can we raise a bug with Blizzard so that they finally fix this for Cataclysm.

The formula in WotLK for their AP is their ((strength * 2 - 20) + ((.31 + .3 * glyphed) * shaman attackpower)) * 1.1 (for unleashed rage).

Is this still the same in Cataclysm? If so then please send a ticket. If not then please tell us what the new basis is.
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#23 Deadstar

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:55 AM

Can anyone log in to beta and confirm that the new talent trees listed on MMO-Champ (see the "talents" link in the OP), are the ones in game? I'm on a different computer and have to download cata from scratch, so I won't be on for a day or two.

Specifically check:
Ancestral Swiftness gone (please no!)
Elemental Dev now tier 2 Enhance
Ancestral Knowledge now tier 1 Elem
Frozen Power is back

These are pretty rough changes if they've gone through. It means:

-we have to take AK or Convection to get to call of flame (where we could take Ele D before)
-unless the current Ghost Wolf in cata is instant baseline, it means no more instant GW + no more run speed
-PvP enhance go it's ranged root back, which is good to see.



I can confirm all of the above. Ancestral Swiftness is sorely missed and I hope it's not getting swapped out to have Frozen Power.

#24 SentinelBorg

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:01 PM

I'm pretty sure they will make Ghost Wolf instant cast baseline. Without the talent it was useless, now that you can have mounts that early in the game. And they wanted to get rid of talents, that were needed to make an ability usable at all.

#25 Taowth

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:04 PM

"Ritual of Doom is now Summon Doomguard - Summons a Doomguard to fight beside you for 45 sec. The Doomguard will assist you by attacking the target which is afflicted by your Bane of Doom or Bane of Agony spell, and will sometimes dispel harmful magic effects from you. / 80% of base mana, Instant cast, 10 min cooldown, Reagents: Demonic Figurine"

Though you can't see the spell link in that cut n paste from MMO-Champion's change list, the Doomguard and Infernal are now classified as Guardians, meaning they can be out with the Warlock's pet similar to how a DK's Gargoyle functions (though i'm not sure if a Garg is a guardian or not). The part about this that makes it relevant to Enhancement is the line there how these guardians focus target whoever has a Bane spell on them, since they cannot be directly controlled, or so it reads to me.

If this works that could be something to help solve the Searing Totem AI problem if they applied the same targetting mechanic to it, so that it targets whatever has Stormstrike on them or something along those lines.

#26 Hakagan

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 07:00 PM

Ancestral Swiftness was not removed. Sorry for any confusion. It is still in the second tier of Enhancement, available to all.


Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [GHOSTWOLF] What happened to my instant??? :(

#27 Divis0R

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:13 AM

40% for 5% really isn't that low considering our attack speed.


Well, this is going to change. Quite a lot.

First thing to consider is the unification of the haste ratings. The new haste hating will affect both melee attacks and spells with the same percentages. This is a net decay of around 22% less haste gained from rating. *Clarification* The haste rating for melee attacks will align to the one for spells, which is higher. ~25 rating for 1% for melee, ~32 rating for 1% for spells.

Next is the inflation of ratings. With 192 haste rating per 1% increase at level 85, we'd need around 6720 haste rating to hit the ~35% passive increase we have now on gear. GC stated already that they want to tone down things, so you're not GCD locked and you have time to react to things. Now, it is true that we haven't seen any epics for level 85. But somehow I think we won't be able to reach the attack speed we have now. My opinion, might be flawed, don't burn me at the stake for it :)

The mana issue is a serious concern because of the removal of Intellect from enhancement/hunter gear and the unmodified spell cost for Enhancement compared to Elemental/Restoration. Should be raised in the beta forums. However, I'd like to see some more opinions on this matter, maybe I'm seeing things wrong.

#28 frmorrison

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:09 PM

Next is the inflation of ratings. With 192 haste rating per 1% increase at level 85, we'd need around 6720 haste rating to hit the ~35% passive increase we have now on gear. GC stated already that they want to tone down things, so you're not GCD locked and you have time to react to things. Now, it is true that we haven't seen any epics for level 85. But somehow I think we won't be able to reach the attack speed we have now. My opinion, might be flawed, don't burn me at the stake for it :)

The mana issue is a serious concern because of the removal of Intellect from enhancement/hunter gear and the unmodified spell cost for Enhancement compared to Elemental/Restoration. Should be raised in the beta forums. However, I'd like to see some more opinions on this matter, maybe I'm seeing things wrong.


Maybe in Deathwing gear, but you are right that you need a lot of rating to reach current level 80 levels of haste and crit, so that will not happen in the first Tier of level 85 gear. Also players will need lots more hit rating than before (hit scales with the boss's power).

If in PvE mana becomes a problem, they can fix that via adding spell reduction talents, lowering costs of spells or messing with Primal Wisdom, I am sure they are thinking/working on it. For example with Paladins, they are getting very close to having the right mana returns, they just need a few more tweaks.

#29 Rouncer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 06:50 PM

Mana doesn't feel too bad at the moment for leveling in the beta. I drop mana spring in my standard set if I don't have Blessing of Might but that's about the only thing I've changed.

Problem is that shamanistic focus is one of the "bugged" talents so I have it's effects even though it is no longer an available talent. I checked this morning and the same is not true with improved stormstrike so the mana returns aren't completely off but it is something to keep in mind.

Good thing is that adding shamanistic focus onto our specialties probably would be something they would consider if mana does become a concern.

#30 Frontier

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:44 PM

I finally got some time on beta and learned Unleash Elements last night, and I have to say that so far I'm not very impressed with it's Enhancement uses. The Windfury portion being a ranged attack that grants melee haste for 6(?) seconds is the most unintuitive shit ever. Using it to pull a mob while questing, I can barely get to the target before the buff effect is gone. I'd rather it just do something like proc Windfury from range without triggering the internal cooldown (assuming that doesn't get removed).

The Flametongue effect is a little nicer, but with only Flame Shock and Lava Burst being effected by it, it seems like it is going to cause some stupidity in our priority system. We should be only casting Flame Shock every 18~ seconds with the changes to DoT haste scaling, so a lot of the time that isn't going to be a good option. That leaves Lava Burst, and having to time out Unleash Elements with Lava Burst being off cooldown and having Mealstrom Weapon at a 5 stack seems pretty micro-management heavy. Adding Lava Lash to it might work out that kink, but that would make it a ranged attack buffing melee again. Something like 'Increases all Fire damage dealt by X% for Y seconds' might work better. If that allowed for a Flame Shock DoT already on the target to benefit, it would be a bit more 'hit this when you have a GCD and it's off cooldown' instead of 'wait for the stars to align.' That would give Lava Burst a little less burst than its current implementation (because they'd have tone down the damage buff to something like 3-5% for all spells instead of the 20% for one) but I'm not sure Lava Burst really needs more burst than it has on live.

This is all based on questing through Hyjal and Vash'jir. Maybe it feels better in group play when targets don't die in 5~ seconds. I'll also caveat that my Flametongue impressions are based on play on beta without any mods. It may turn out that having a way to actually monitor all the procs and cooldowns our combat design requires will iron out the 'when the stars align' design.

Overall, I'd rather it be an attack with unique flavor instead of another proc/cooldown system to monitor. I think we have enough of that already.

#31 Rouncer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:02 PM

Unleash flame only buffs the direct damage portion of flame shock, making it a less then ideal use of the buff. The buff lasts 7 seconds which should be enough time to get MW stacked up again or at least get it enough stacks (4) to be worth casting the lava burst since we won't have to worry about the 4T10 bonus for too much longer

Lava Burst is a 8 second cooldown that will pretty much always be waiting for UF since when you add a little mastery into the mix LB becomes a better option for your MW stacks then LvB except when the UF buff is active.

#32 Frontier

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:40 PM

Lava Burst is a 8 second cooldown that will pretty much always be waiting for UF since when you add a little mastery into the mix LB becomes a better option for your MW stacks then LvB except when the UF buff is active.


That's actually what I'm afraid of, to be honest. I think we've got enough 'If this and this and this then do that' in our priority system already on live. I'm not really sure our spec needs more of those sort of effects, overall. The current Maelstrom system works pretty well on live. If you need single target damage, Lightning Bolt; if you need multi-target damage, chain lightning; if you or someone else needs a heal and you don't think a healer is going to get to it in time, Healing Wave. Needing two different buttons for the single target damage portion seems excessive (and unintuitive), especially when the second button requires you to have a third button available or have pressed that third button in the last few seconds.

I like the complexity of priority system on live (if not the carpal tunnel aspect of it) but I don't think it needs to get any more complex than that. We're micro-management heavy enough, I think. It's a bit early to be super worried about this sort of thing, getting Shock and Awe (or similar) on beta will better tell how big of an issue this is actually going to be. I'm a bit apprehensive about the way Unleash Elements is potentially going to effect our play style in its current implementation, though.

#33 Rouncer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:12 AM

That's actually what I'm afraid of, to be honest. I think we've got enough 'If this and this and this then do that' in our priority system already on live. I'm not really sure our spec needs more of those sort of effects, overall. The current Maelstrom system works pretty well on live. If you need single target damage, Lightning Bolt; if you need multi-target damage, chain lightning; if you or someone else needs a heal and you don't think a healer is going to get to it in time, Healing Wave. Needing two different buttons for the single target damage portion seems excessive (and unintuitive), especially when the second button requires you to have a third button available or have pressed that third button in the last few seconds.

I like the complexity of priority system on live (if not the carpal tunnel aspect of it) but I don't think it needs to get any more complex than that. We're micro-management heavy enough, I think. It's a bit early to be super worried about this sort of thing, getting Shock and Awe (or similar) on beta will better tell how big of an issue this is actually going to be. I'm a bit apprehensive about the way Unleash Elements is potentially going to effect our play style in its current implementation, though.


I would argue the exact opposite. That lava burst is exactly what we need.

Our current priority list is abominable. It's psychotic whack-a-mole with no perceivable advantage to hitting any one button versus any other except for smacking LB or CL whenever whatever addon you are using says you've hit 5 stacks of MW. There are minimal rewards for doing it "right" versus just hitting whatever happens to be off cooldown.

Adding unleash flame and lava burst along with removing magma totem and fire nova from our single target fixes all that. Now there is a clear perceivable advantage to doing things right and there even could be times where it would be better to wait on hitting unleash flame until you have at least 4 stacks of MW so that you can use LvB right away. Also you have to make sure that flame shock is already on the target with enough time remaining on the DoT before hitting UF and following it with the LvB or it won't auto-crit and you will lose some potential dps. Knowing when to hit what button and, even more important, knowing when to delay hitting a button will actually play a role in our performance and that is a very good thing.

#34 Taowth

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:22 AM

While I would like to see the WF Unleash become something more unique (always liked the black bruise proc idea), i've never really had a problem with the effects themselves, it has always been a problem with the duration implementation. It seems completely counter productive to have such a low duration timer on a ranged spell. For PvP, we'll get 1 second out of the timer if at all when using it at ranged. I was a fan of the spell when the first skill preview was released and the spell's effects had charges. I thought it was perfect because then it would work great in PvE but also not be wasted in PvP because the charges would remain until I reached the target.

I don't know why they moved away from the charge model when the timer model they moved to was timed so low. It seems to me that it just put in more problems.

#35 Rouncer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:39 AM

While I would like to see the WF Unleash become something more unique (always liked the black bruise proc idea), i've never really had a problem with the effects themselves, it has always been a problem with the duration implementation. It seems completely counter productive to have such a low duration timer on a ranged spell. For PvP, we'll get 1 second out of the timer if at all when using it at ranged. I was a fan of the spell when the first skill preview was released and the spell's effects had charges. I thought it was perfect because then it would work great in PvE but also not be wasted in PvP because the charges would remain until I reached the target.

I don't know why they moved away from the charge model when the timer model they moved to was timed so low. It seems to me that it just put in more problems.


Now that I can agree with, unleash wind is pretty disappointing in it's current form. The direct damage is lackluster and the buff is boring and punishes using a ranged spell when outside of melee range.

I'd like to see it changed to either a black bruise effect where it would give an additional 20% of our physical damage as nature damage (wouldn't scale with the nature mastery) for a limited duration or maybe having it give a buff to increase the proc chance of a windfury proc by 20% for 7 seconds. The latter would only work if the cooldown remained in place and that sounds like it might be up in the air but the former should work either way.

#36 Frontier

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:05 AM

Yea looking at it again, it's not as bad as I was imagining. I was still assuming Magma Totem/Fire Nova and was overreacting. Major facedesk on my part.

The 'Black Bruise' idea would be pretty cool, especially if we can get some fancy new wind effect every swing. Still doesn't solve the 'ranged attack buffing melee' thing, which I can see being a biggish deal in PvP. Swapping it to a Charge system from a buff duration system might work.

#37 Rouncer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:15 AM

Yea looking at it again, it's not as bad as I was imagining. I was still assuming Magma Totem/Fire Nova and was overreacting. Major facedesk on my part.

The 'Black Bruise' idea would be pretty cool, especially if we can get some fancy new wind effect every swing. Still doesn't solve the 'ranged attack buffing melee' thing, which I can see being a biggish deal in PvP. Swapping it to a Charge system from a buff duration system might work.


Depends if the charges would be able to differentiate between mainhand and offhand attacks, which is why I think the swapped to the duration model in the first place.

#38 Frontier

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:58 AM

Yea, that's true. I'm not sure if that's an issue in this case though. Ultimately I expect the damage to be balanced to be the same, regardless of the system. I trust they can make 12 charges (hypothetical numbers here) the same damage as 6 seconds of the buff effect, the only difference being the window in which the player can use the effect. It's possible I'm not seeing something, though. If offhand attacks hitting for less than mainhand attacks does cause a problem, it could be set up to have the proc be based on a % of weapon damage (without the offhand penalty) rather than a % of the damage of the triggering attack instead?

#39 Jessamy

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 02:16 AM

Moderator PSA:

Unleash weapon has some inconvenience issues for enhancement shaman, especially in pvp. The current conversation is approaching wishlisting though. So far the comments have been well reasoned and thoughtful, and there isn't really anything else going on right now.

Be careful you don't suggest "Unleash Wind now summons magical wind fairies to summon you to the Land of Wind and Shade" and make sure to stay constructive.

#40 Rouncer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 03:12 AM

New Build

Shamanistic Rage - mmo-c is a typo and it must be more like 96% since it takes stormstrike from 901 to 38 mana.

Unleash Wind - buffed - the buff now lasts for 6 seconds instead of just 5.

and <Happy Dance>

Mental Quickness - buffed - 50% of our AP as spellpower.




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