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Warning for Arythorn: 5. Threads should be started if and only if there is some reasonable topic to discuss.


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#1 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 04:25 PM

Post: Balance Raiding in Cataclysm
User: Arythorn
Infraction: 5. Threads should be started if and only if there is some reasonable topic to discuss.
Points: 0

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

There already was a cataclysm moonkin thread. I moved your post there.

Original Post:

If this should be posted elsewhere, just delete or what have you. I would like to start some thoughtful conversation on it though for sure.

Unfortunately I'm not in beta as of this point, but I have been starting to gather information the best I can from the Moonkin I can find that are in beta. What I have heard but not validated myself regarding Eclipse mechanic is below. I'd like to start a conversation to fill in the gaps of what I don't know as well as some thought process to get feedback to Blizzard as this goes through it's builds (i.e. maybe one of you out there in beta can post to feedback -- right now all I see on Moonkin on beta feedback boards is a 6 page thread on the necessity of moonkin form -- depressing).

Anywho, that said, here's what I "know":

1) Getting to one side of the Eclipse bar grants you a 25% bonus to either Nature or Arcane damage depending on the side.
2) This percentage bonus *may* increase with higher Mastery
3) This damage bonus will last for 45 seconds OR until you reach the middle of the Eclipse bar whereupon it will cancel.
4) Some folks that have tested think there may also be a 30 sec internal cooldown on Eclipse procs.
5) Anecdotally, if we are able to stand and spam cast, it is taking about 10 seconds to reach middle of bar and cancel Eclipse
6) Starsurge / Lunar Guidance can move the bar back away from the middle even during an Eclipse (thus extending that Eclipse slightly)

What I don't know but would like to (alot of things really but a small list below):

1) The relative value of Energy -- is each Wrath or Starfire hit worth a set amount of Energy regardless of damage. Is each Starfire/Wrath crit worth that same amount of Energy (without Euphoria talent -- obviously worth more with it) again regardless of damage? If so, how much is each Wrath / Starfire hit/crit worth?
2) What is the Energy scale -- 100 to each side? 50 to each side? Something else? Trying to sort out what 4 or 6 or 8 Energy really means
3) Euphoria -- while this may get you to an Eclipse faster (good), would it also move you the opposite direction and cancel an Eclipse faster (bad)?


My current commentary:

I want to be optimistic but have some fears based on what I'm hearing:


Negative: 25% flat damage increase to relevant school is a lesser effect than current Eclipses offer. (Mastery may fix this, don't know)

Positive: doesn't seem to be spell specific (Wrath/Starfire only) now so would include Insect Swarm, Moonfire damage as well?

Sounds Positive but I'm Going with Negative: 45 seconds vs 15 seconds duration, which on a movement fight should prevent you from losing the benefits of an Eclipse. But let's say there is no movement and you are just spamming the buffed spell, I'm hearing roughly 10 seconds of spam cast before it cancels vs 15 now.

The cancellation at middle of bar is what really has me here. Right now, I can fairly well chain Solar to Lunar to Solar to Lunar. Occasionally, due to RNG, there might be some problems where:

a) I can't get the next Eclipse to proc due to unlucky non-crit string OR
B) I just proc'd an Eclipse and now have to move and waste some of that Eclipse.

Situation A is fairly infrequent and, in my mind, a hard to predict yet infrequent break in Eclipse cycles is far better than an easy to predict, inescapable, and very frequent break in Eclipse cycles.

Situation B is fixed by a cycle that can go longer if you aren't spam casting which sounds like a bonus but . . . currently, if I lose out on a portion of an Eclipse cycle due to movement, I can still finish what is left of it and quickly move into the next cycle. In the Cata situation, I get to retain my current Eclipse but there will still be a non-Eclipse break when I reach the middle. Honestly, Lunar Shower and Starsurge/Lunar Guidance seem to help us deal with dps loss due to movement due much more than a potentially long Eclipse cycle that will "wait" for you.

Given what I'm hearing (and again this is without yet playtesting myself) I think this mechanic really needs to move to an opposite side of bar cancel versus a middle of bar cancel. Namely, the Eclipse cycle would last 45 seconds OR until you get to the far opposite side and proc the opposite Eclipse. Lower it to 30 second buff if need be but at least give us a possible chance of chaining Eclipses. Having it go away once you reach the middle means an inescapable, and very frequent break in Eclipse cycles. Couple that with what is only a 25% damage buff and I think this, at least on paper, begins to break things far more than it fixes them. Also, if Energy move is done on a per cast basis and Eclipse procs are on some sort of internal cooldown (rather than just whenever you get to opposite side of bar), it would seem high haste values make Eclipse cycles even shorter and the dead time longer in end game gear (thus not scaling).


What I'm itching to do (in the biggest way) is get a beta key and do some target dummy testing on my Boom in both live and in Cata beta. I'd like to run combatlog / WoL as well as roll video and start sharing information. My guild did just get awarded 10 beta keys (part of some essay contest) but not sure I'm going to get one of them. If I can't get on beta myself, I will attempt to have some guildies run some target dummy stuff into combatlog / World of Logs but I imagine it won't be with quite the same vigor/thoroughness that I would do it with. I want to be optimistic on where this ends up but a middle-of-the-bar cancel doesn't seem to be a good thing for high sustained dps.

Anywho, if any of the EJ readership is out there and can add clarity / commentary to the above and/or add some more data (combat logs, video, etc.), I'd be much obliged.






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