Jump to content


Photo

The Cataclysmic Art of Making Gold


  • Please log in to reply
196 replies to this topic

#181 Papalazza

Papalazza

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 17 posts

Posted 04 April 2011 - 09:58 AM

Maelstrom Crystals are going to fall off a cliff when 4.1 hits, so if you have any saved up, sell them while the selling is good. This was predicted with the new troll heroics dropping epic gear, but the nail in the coffin will be that Maelstroms will be purchasable with JP/Honor. Great for cheaper enchants, bad if you're throttling the raw crystal market.


Latest MMO champion reports cost of Maelstrom @ 3750 justice/honor points. So likely to be used just as somewhere to dump points and make personal enchants and not as revenue stream at least! Will still dilute the market though, slightly.

#182 Grigorim

Grigorim

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 112 posts

Posted 04 April 2011 - 02:56 PM

Latest MMO champion reports cost of Maelstrom @ 3750 justice/honor points. So likely to be used just as somewhere to dump points and make personal enchants and not as revenue stream at least! Will still dilute the market though, slightly.


Maelstroms from ZG/ZA are going to crash the market. You can specifically queue for just those two heroics.

#183 Desta

Desta

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 08 April 2011 - 10:43 AM

Anyone that still does the ore -> gems -> dust/cut/vendor/AH shuffle might want to take into consideration this as it will most likely change the profit margins:
* Bold Carnelian, Solid Zephyrite, Subtle Alicite, Perfect Quick Alicite, Sovereign Nightstone, Regal Jasper, Resolute Hessonite, and any cut of uncommon gem now sells to NPC for 75 silver instead of 9 gold.
It's under "Spell changes" on MMO-champ today. So not official, but might or might not become.

#184 Roop

Roop

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 08 April 2011 - 01:10 PM

Anyone that still does the ore -> gems -> dust/cut/vendor/AH shuffle might want to take into consideration this as it will most likely change the profit margins:
* Bold Carnelian, Solid Zephyrite, Subtle Alicite, Perfect Quick Alicite, Sovereign Nightstone, Regal Jasper, Resolute Hessonite, and any cut of uncommon gem now sells to NPC for 75 silver instead of 9 gold.
It's under "Spell changes" on MMO-champ today. So not official, but might or might not become.


A very odd change indeed, I see no real gain in changing this other than they want to lower the "prospected vendor" value of ore. For quite a while now I been able to purchase > prospect > cut > vendor common gems for a profit with obsidian ore at times under 1g80s on my server. So the resulting common gems vendoring for a guaranteed 9g was great when could purchase large quantities. This surely is not common practice on servers however? It is a very niche area for me as it was very time intensive for at times, a very small (yet guaranteed) return. At times was able to purchase 40-50 stacks below 1g80s each ore with little competition on purchases. Or is this common practice for others seaking a guaranteed income low yeild income? If it is then the change makes more sense.

#185 Njus

Njus

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 08 April 2011 - 02:20 PM

This surely is not common practice on servers however? It is a very niche area for me as it was very time intensive for at times, a very small (yet guaranteed) return. At times was able to purchase 40-50 stacks below 1g80s each ore with little competition on purchases. Or is this common practice for others seaking a guaranteed income low yeild income? If it is then the change makes more sense.


While I clearly can't "know" what everyone else does to make gold, if you go by how popular the practice is in gold blogs then yes it's a super popular method of processing ore. While I only did this with my leftovers after shuffling that which could be shuffled and selling the popular ones on the AH, I'm aware of several people (even on my super low pop server) who buy ore just to vendor the cut gem byproducts. I personally buy any uncut gems off the AH below cut vendor price just for the quick gold it affords.

This change basically just removes the "floor" at which I feel comfortable stockpiling/buying ore. Yes it will still process into all the same stuff as it did before, but if everything heads south I can't just vendor the gems to get my money back. If people wind up skittish about shuffling ore, there may be a slight bump in enchanting mats as more people hold back from DE'ing jewelry they would have otherwise been making.

#186 Miloh

Miloh

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 08 April 2011 - 06:36 PM

For the sake of discussion below, I am ignoring the market forces due to Engineering and Blacksmithing, as goods produced from these professions have limited demand compared to the Jewelcrafting market (at least with respect to the common raw material of Elementium Ore). Simply put, one cannot liquidate crafted gear in great quantity as one can with gems.

Clearly, we will see a reduction in demand for ore if this change goes through, due to the lower price floor of prospected gems. However, we cannot assume that only the demand curve will shift. An unknown factor is how much the supply curve will shift. Farmers will still farm, but what price point will cause them to give up or enter other markets (i.e., Herbalism/Skinning)?

Furthermore, uncommon gems have rather limited use: jewelry, meta gems, transmutes to rares, and daily quests. Meta gems and daily quests have limited demand. Transmutes may see an uptick, but only for certain colors. This leaves jewelry. I forsee many Alicite Pendants being disenchanted in the future, since it is the only viable route to get rid of excess Alicite. As the price floor is 3g for the materials used to make Alicite Pendants (1.5g for setting, 75s per Alicite), and at a yield of ~1.5 dust and ~0.5 lesser essence per disenchant, Enchanting materials may also see a significant reduction.

(Alicite Pendant chosen as an easy example above. Carnelian Spikes may have a greater impact, but Carnelians are also tied to Inferno Ruby transmutes.)

#187 Handyhoof

Handyhoof

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 152 posts

Posted 09 April 2011 - 04:30 PM

Besides changing the profit calculation for large scale prospectors, the price drop will affect the AH deposit value as well. Making gems less valuable to vendor and cheaper to post on the AH may have a net effect of increasing the availability of gems on the AH due to the change in opportunity cost.

#188 Cranch

Cranch

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 339 posts

Posted 14 April 2011 - 12:38 AM

Being in a level 24 guild gives you a chance of arbitrage involving chopper or vial of the sands materials. You'd probably have better luck disguising the arbitrage by selling the finished product for a bit less than your competition that don't have access to the 10% discount. The choppers'd sell faster in my opinion.

#189 mindwalkr

mindwalkr

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 27 April 2011 - 07:17 PM

Winterspring Cub is sold by the NPC, 'Michelle De Rum <Pet Collector>' in Everlook Inn for 50g.

BOE, unlimited supply. Has been selling on the AH for 2000g (only put one up so people think it is rare/limited/etc).

#190 Roop

Roop

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:15 PM

With the still unknown source of epic gems being discovered (yet). How are people treating Pyrite or at the moment? I see people selling it and using it in vastly differing values on different servers, and wondering if its just down to others thinking similarly to myself. With the possibility of it being the source of epic gems, I have been stockpiling up a large amount (Just under 10k) mopping up any I see over the last few months selling for 8g or less. However I can sometimes see vast amounts going up, and selling for as much as 15g per ore. The market just seems extremely volatile at the moment on the ore with the ? Hanging above if it will or will not be the source of epic gems in cata.

#191 Miloh

Miloh

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 45 posts

Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:51 PM

I attribute the current Pyrite Ore bump at least in part to people leveling professions on alts (namely, Blacksmithing), as the vendor patterns are now available in SW/Org (previously only available in Twilight Highlands).

There is no apparent reason for the price of Pyrite Ore to stay at a level above what it has been in the past few months (no new crafting patterns or other new methods to consume it), so I would expect the price to stabilize and return to its prior level.

Epic gem speculation is risk based upon subjective opinion. I personally don't see them coming from Pyrite Ore, simply due to the secondary effects that this would have on substantially increasing the costs of belt buckles and Truegold (although, of course, the materials required for the former and the utility of the latter could be adjusted accordingly).

#192 Glayde

Glayde

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 683 posts

Posted 28 April 2011 - 06:19 PM

I shudder thinking of the price for the new primordial saronites (Living Embers?) due to the potential that they're needed in great numbers for the legendary staff.

In ICC only 25man guilds were able to do the quest.

Now since every 10man guild will also be able to do it, the demand will just be stupid.

#193 Sabyn

Sabyn

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 30 April 2011 - 12:51 PM

For the sake of discussion below, I am ignoring the market forces due to Engineering and Blacksmithing, as goods produced from these professions have limited demand compared to the Jewelcrafting market (at least with respect to the common raw material of Elementium Ore). Simply put, one cannot liquidate crafted gear in great quantity as one can with gems.

Clearly, we will see a reduction in demand for ore if this change goes through, due to the lower price floor of prospected gems. However, we cannot assume that only the demand curve will shift. An unknown factor is how much the supply curve will shift. Farmers will still farm, but what price point will cause them to give up or enter other markets (i.e., Herbalism/Skinning)?

Furthermore, uncommon gems have rather limited use: jewelry, meta gems, transmutes to rares, and daily quests. Meta gems and daily quests have limited demand. Transmutes may see an uptick, but only for certain colors. This leaves jewelry. I forsee many Alicite Pendants being disenchanted in the future, since it is the only viable route to get rid of excess Alicite. As the price floor is 3g for the materials used to make Alicite Pendants (1.5g for setting, 75s per Alicite), and at a yield of ~1.5 dust and ~0.5 lesser essence per disenchant, Enchanting materials may also see a significant reduction.

(Alicite Pendant chosen as an easy example above. Carnelian Spikes may have a greater impact, but Carnelians are also tied to Inferno Ruby transmutes.)



We are still in the first week of the rather massive nerf to the basic shuffle and the safe floor price of Obsidium being cut in half and Elementium being knocked down by a fair percentage as well. On my server I have seen a very steady trend of decreased green gem prices (with huge variations, Carnelians are posted at 25g+, over twice the norm before the patch, and gems like Alicite, Jasper and Hessonite dropping well below 9g). We've also had two JC dailies in a row using Zephyrite and it is still going for around it's pre-patch JC daily price of 16g avg.

An interesting thing is that the price of Obsidium has been consistently high and very scarce. I haven't seen a stack under 45-50g in several days, while Elementium ore is still readily available at less than 35g a stack. Enchanting materials (excluding Maelstrom Crystals of course) have seen a very sharp spike in price, and have been insanely profitable. The nerf seemed to only hurt the people who did the shuffle and just sold all their gems to vendors. The people like me who shuffled all the way to DEing rings and necklaces and cut Rare gems are making out like bandits. And I am still seeing people post things like stacks of Alicite on the AH for less than their vendor value, and now they don't even have to cut it!

It is all very strange and I was terrified at first that this could totally ruin my money making, but so far it seems better. I think enchanting mats will calm down some, since there are a lot more people enchanting stuff now. But most of it depends on how people react by dropping professions (possible? I don't really know) and the farmers.

I am only in the Ore/Gem/Enchanting market, so I don't know if a lot of farmers are moving to herbs or what not, but this is definitely a good time for some. 200g Inferno Rubies is a thing of beauty.

Oh, and it may be a little late to really cash in on this for some servers, but you may still be able to make some good money by selling Chocolate Cookie for the achievement if you've been good about doing your cooking daily. They basically cost nothing but time to make and they are still close to 2g each on my server. On the second day after the patch I sold them all for over 200g a stack.

I hope some other people can give their observations on how the Ore/Gem/Enchanting market is doing on their server. It is definitely not what i expected.

#194 Cybsled

Cybsled

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 113 posts

Posted 05 May 2011 - 10:31 PM

I shudder thinking of the price for the new primordial saronites (Living Embers?) due to the potential that they're needed in great numbers for the legendary staff.

In ICC only 25man guilds were able to do the quest.

Now since every 10man guild will also be able to do it, the demand will just be stupid.


The Blizzard preview made it seem as though the quest will only be given to players who have completely cleared all prior raid content (Al'Akir, Cho'gal, and Nef). While that will become less problematic to the majority of players as gear levels inflate and nerfs come into play, it should still restrict a good chunk of the player base from even getting to the point where they need the new trade mat in great quantities at least early on.

#195 vastling

vastling

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 09 May 2011 - 06:49 PM

My guild currently does not have bountiful bags so I'm not sure if these conversions will hold true for high end guilds.

I've had to incorporate de'ing into the shuffle to make ends meet at the new higher floor price.

Currently Alacite is not worth it, the entire shuffle nets me around 1 g over vendoring
(2 alacite 5 g each 1 setting 1.24 =11.24) the mats AH for around 12-13 on avg.

Jade rings only need one jasper and a setting for around 6 g profit

Hessonite and nightstones net around 8g after disenchanting.

You can check your individual realms pricing before deciding if it is worth it for you.

I've found that throwing up the finished along with the raw product tends to be the most throughput for me.
IE sell cut gems and raw gems, enchanting mats and enchanting scrolls

One of the things that I'm curious about is going to be Heavenly shards. As more people migrate to ZA/ZG and less blues are coming from dungeon runs but are still needed in high end enchants will the shuffle be enough to supply the servers needs or will demand outpace production.

#196 Roop

Roop

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 56 posts

Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:44 PM

In regards to Heavenly shards, I am already seeing a large shift on my server. The bog standard price has leapt from 25g average up to nearly 60g average. I had put this down to post patch enchanting bonanza that is the new Z's , but as has been pointed out, without the stead influx of normal shards from none Z's heroics. The supply has very quickly dried up, and I can see the price sustaining around the 55g+ am benefiting from this drought at the moment. Now depending on your shuffling mats of choice will depend on the ease of you getting the Shards. But I can see that for this reason alone, still shuffling the like of Alacite are still (just mind you for my servers market at this exact point) worth it instead of vendoring.

#197 Blafoorius

Blafoorius

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 14 May 2011 - 09:03 AM

Hessonite and nightstones net around 8g after disenchanting.


Always keep in mind that you can transmute them into Ember Topaz and Demonseye. On my server a cut Demonseye or Ember Topaz can be sold for 50-90g. This is not only great profit, but the transmute can be done with a single click while the crafting and disenchanting of the greens take significantly more time.
Also it might be worth to hold on to your Alacite and transmute them into Amberjewls if their demand rises with the introductions of the new pvp jewlery.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users